Leica advise......please.

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#1
OK, I know nothing, or very little about the marque except that I would love to own one. I've been at this nonsense for 60+ years but never got around to one due to the price.
Thinking back however, I've spent enough on other marques over the years to buy many of them.
What would members recommend?
NOT a Panasonic compact, but the 'best value' Leica, fixed or removable lens, mirror or mirrorless.
NOT grey either, but a reputable dealer.
 
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Ian
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#2
Film or digital?
 
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Ian
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#4
Sorry... More questions... And I have no answers btw - I'm just toying with the idea of an M10 myself and have been mulling it over for a long time (whilst I save)... But these were the questions I asked myself to rule stuff out.

- Do you know whether you want the rangefinder style of shooting? i.e. no AF. (I have tried it out on my M3 and I love it)
- Do you know whether you want something with DSLR form & function (weight, handling, weather sealing etc)
- Do you want to build a collection around it (fixed lens vs no fixed lens... I already have M lenses so fixed lens wasn't of interest to me)
- Budget... (I made a decision to just save until I have enough. As it'll be a "buy it once", I wanted the best I could afford, and I can afford anything if I take enough time to save for it)
 
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#6
Just bought my first digital Leica. A Q-P
I’ve been lucky enough to have had some film M’s
Really wanted autofocus and full frame.
Price is a massive consideration.
Been lusting over a Q since launch.
Like you I’ve spent way too much on other gear.
I reckon if I wanted a Leica with interchangeable lenses and AF I’d look at CL or TL

I also have a small Nikon Z system.
 
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Justin
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#7
Dave, I was the same, just always wanted a Leica, I inherited a bit of cash so bought a Q as a one off way to remember who left me the money, I love the images it gives me and I love using it, but. It’s a fixed focal so there are times I wish I had another couple of lenses for it. I did the same as you and bought a Pen f and some primes to cover the gaps, I also just bought a d-lux 7 to give me grab compact. I now own, the Q, Pen f, D-lux 7, G15, G10 and a GoPro 7. I’ll always be chasing the camera I think I need when really I should just use one and take more pictures. I do still love my Q...... but will I better of with a Q2? ;)
 
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#8
Hi, I must admit, too, that I always wanted a Leica. So, in 1988, when I started earning serious money, I bought an M6 with the Summicron 2/35
and the Elmarit 2,8/90.

At the time, the Leica M6 was the best camera in the world (for me). ---

In 2010, I bought the M9. Meanwhile, I have 30 Leica M mount lenses.

Based on my experience, the op will be most satisfied, if the preferred focal length is between 28mm and 50mm, AF, IS, high ISO,
tilt screen are not required, and the hands are steady.

I have always had Leica not as my only system. In my M6 days, I had SLRs (for tele capability), ROLLEI 35s, medium format (ROLLEI 6 x 6, Fuji 645).

Today, I use my M9 often. However, there are also other cameras I use. SONY A7R2 (high ISO, AF, live view, tilt screen). Nikon D800 (powerful AF,
better than SONY, tele up to 600mm).

What I like most about my M9 is the almost analogue IQ, the quality feeling when handling it, and its compactness (with compact M mount lenses).

So, it is a matter of taste, too. If you appreciate the former Mercedes G class, older S-classes or mechanical Swiss watches, have other cameras
to complement the Leica, you will be satisfied and happy with your Leica(s), like me ... ---

(A rational and cautious approach: Visit your Leica dealer, borrow an M9 or M10 with a Summicron 2/35 over a weekend ... )
 
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#9
OK, I know nothing, or very little about the marque except that I would love to own one. I've been at this nonsense for 60+ years but never got around to one due to the price.
Thinking back however, I've spent enough on other marques over the years to buy many of them.
What would members recommend?
NOT a Panasonic compact, but the 'best value' Leica, fixed or removable lens, mirror or mirrorless.
NOT grey either, but a reputable dealer.
Leica Xvario. Hold their second hand value if you decide it's not for you. Good ones you can get for around £750 including all original packaging etc. You can get cheaper but if they are fully boxed they keep their resell value.
 
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#10
(A rational and cautious approach: Visit your Leica dealer, borrow an M9 or M10 with a Summicron 2/35 over a weekend ... )
I'd be cautious about buying an M9 at this point. Some of them developed an issue ('corrosion') with the sensor over time. Initially, Leica would replace a degraded sensor with exactly the same sensor, which is of course vulnerable to the same issue. Eventually, they fixed the issue and more recent replacements are apparently immune to this fault. The trick is to find an M9 that has had its original sensor replaced with the updated sensor. A specific firmware version, 1.204, was supposedly only issued when the updated sensor was installed:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/272556-determining-new-sensor-m9/

Unfortunately if the owner has subsequently installed a later firmware version from the Leica site, 1.204 will have been overwritten, erasing the evidence of the sensor upgrade. But if the camera comes with paperwork for the sensor replacement, the date may tell you if the new sensor is likely to have been used. You can still get a corroded sensor replaced, but this formerly free service is now pretty expensive.

The M10 looks like a great camera, but is still very expensive even secondhand. The model that came between them, confusingly called the Leica M (Type 240), would be another more reasonably priced option. An M9 with a confirmed new sensor might be just as expensive as an 'M240', since some people prefer the M9's CCD sensor to the CMOS used in later models.
 
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#11
If you want a manual focus rangefinder experience (which is very engaging), I recommend an M9 with a replaced sensor, with a Zeiss 50mm f/2 Planar or, if your budget can stretch to it, a Leica 50mm f/2 Summicron (not the vastly expensive AA one). The M9 is lovely and I took some of my most loved photos with mine.

Alternatively, with the release of the Q2, there are amazing deals on new Q or QP cameras, and if I were you a second-hand Q would be top of the list as their prices have dropped a lot as owners trade up to the Q2.
 
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#12
... I recommend an M9 with a replaced sensor, with a Zeiss 50mm f/2 Planar or, if your budget can stretch to it,
a Leica 50mm f/2 Summicron (not the vastly expensive AA one).

The M9 is lovely and I took some of my most loved photos with mine.
Hi, this would be my recommendation, too! (With replaced sensor, of course.)

If 35mm is preferred, the ZEISS Biogon 2/35 is also very good.

(I have the Planar and the Biogon (and the Summicron). - I do not own a Q. So I have no personal experience with it.)
 
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Dave in Wales
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#13
A salient point perhaps I should have mentioned is the requirement for IS.....this I gather rather reduces the field a tad

Thanks to all.
 
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Mike
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#17
do any of the leica rangefinders have IS? I'm not aware of one. I had an M9 for quite a while and loved it, but it failed once too often so I switched to Canon dslr - nowhere near as nice to use but much more reliable.
 
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Simon
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#19
If the aim is to get the Leica "experience" then it has to be an M-series rangefinder, but none of those had or have AF or IS.
 
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Dave in Wales
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#20
Thanks all for the helpful comments.

So Leica's aren't cheap and it has to be a new one.

It's looking like a toss-up between a.....
'Q'...(FF) with IS and AF...£3.5k lowest price.
or
CL...(APS-C) and 18-56mm...with AF, no IS....£2.8k lowest price.

Opinions welcomed please, or is it a no brainer........the 'Q' wins hands down.

I have to be honest here, the digital-zoom in the Q doesn't nowt for me.
Seems IMVHO an expensive superfluous addition, when one can crop in PP.....or have I got it wrong.

TIA.
 
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#21
Thanks all for the helpful comments.

So Leica's aren't cheap and it has to be a new one.

It's looking like a toss-up between a.....
'Q'...(FF) with IS and AF...£3.5k lowest price.
or
CL...(APS-C) and 18-56mm...with AF, no IS....£2.8k lowest price.

Opinions welcomed please, or is it a no brainer........the 'Q' wins hands down.

I have to be honest here, the digital-zoom in the Q doesn't nowt for me.
Seems IMVHO an expensive superfluous addition, when one can crop in PP.....or have I got it wrong.

TIA.
It's not an expensive addition, it's just a basic feature.
 
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#24
I’ve got the Q2 on preorder. It’s probably months away.
Meanwhile I bought a Q-P
It’s fabulous. But I’m happy with the 28mm focal length.
Since buying it I’ve become a bit interested in the CL.
But ...well I’ve got a perfectly good Nikon system
The Q is a firm favourite.
Not sure I’ll bother with Q2 when my number comes up.
 
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#25
Thanks all for the helpful comments.

So Leica's aren't cheap and it has to be a new one.

It's looking like a toss-up between a.....
'Q'...(FF) with IS and AF...£3.5k lowest price.
or
CL...(APS-C) and 18-56mm...with AF, no IS....£2.8k lowest price.

Opinions welcomed please, or is it a no brainer........the 'Q' wins hands down.

I have to be honest here, the digital-zoom in the Q doesn't nowt for me.
Seems IMVHO an expensive superfluous addition, when one can crop in PP.....or have I got it wrong.

TIA.
The CL is part of a system - other lenses are available. With the Q, you have a fixed 28mm. Does that focal length suit you, and would you be happy with a single lens? Digital zoom doesn't do anything for your image that you can't replicate in post, though it might help with your framing (with a raw file, you can always undo the 'zoom' as the full frame is captured). I doubt the Q would be any cheaper without this feature! If you are worried about the expense, there are lots of excellent alternatives from companies like Fuji and Sony to consider.
 
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Dave in Wales
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#27
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#30
I did state in original post to get a used one. They mostly are in perfect condition and it's a cheap way into Leica. Almost all reviews state how amazing g the lens is on this camera. It's not good for low light but for general use in normal conditions it's right up there with the best Leica lenses.
 
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#31
I was in a similar situation last year but when it came down to it I realised that the camera had to have a rangefinder & manual focus or I wouldn't get that authentic Leica experience that meant just one thing, an M, the M9 was out due to the sensor problem, the M240 was to heavy so that just left the M10 and I can tell you its proved worth every penny.
I started with just an old M mount Voigtlander 75mm f2.5 I had and only used that for months, then saved to pick up a s/h M mount Zeiss 50/2 planar T, then added a cheap little 7Artisans 35mm f2 which is outstandingly good for the money, then later after saving for a while picked up s/h tele elmarit 90 f2.8 & Summicron 50mm.

I was close to going for a CL at one point but then realised that there were other camera's that did the job the CL does as well or better (Fuji/Sony etc) The Q was a complete non starter as the 28mm focal length isn't for me and at the end of the day its an expensive compact camera very similar to Sony's RX1/R camera's. As said before it came down to rushing and getting a camera I probably wouldn't have been completely happy with or going for the camera I knew would satisfy my Leica lust.
 
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Dave in Wales
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#32
Thanks all, the decision seems to have been made for me by my bank manager, I'm leaning towards a CL with 18-56mm.

However, how much do I pay.

CameraBuster's prices range from £2799-£3285.

Thats a difference of £486, not to be sniffed at.

https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk...s/Leica-CL-Camera-Vario-Kit-With-18-56mm-Lens

The only dealer I have had experience of is Park, the dearest wouldn't ya-know.

Any advise please as to where I should shop?
 
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#33
Thanks all, the decision seems to have been made for me by my bank manager, I'm leaning towards a CL with 18-56mm.

However, how much do I pay.

CameraBuster's prices range from £2799-£3285.

Thats a difference of £486, not to be sniffed at.

https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk...s/Leica-CL-Camera-Vario-Kit-With-18-56mm-Lens

The only dealer I have had experience of is Park, the dearest wouldn't ya-know.

Any advise please as to where I should shop?
Those are all good dealers. Wilkinson cameras is superb, Id just go with them as they are cheapest and customer service is excellent.
 
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Trevor
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#34
Thanks all, the decision seems to have been made for me by my bank manager, I'm leaning towards a CL with 18-56mm.

However, how much do I pay.

CameraBuster's prices range from £2799-£3285.

Thats a difference of £486, not to be sniffed at.

https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk...s/Leica-CL-Camera-Vario-Kit-With-18-56mm-Lens

The only dealer I have had experience of is Park, the dearest wouldn't ya-know.

Any advise please as to where I should shop?
Nice. It’s on my Radar.

@Tobers has one.
 
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Andy
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#35
The 18-56 is a super lens. Very sharp and crispy. Stick it on auto-ISO and you’ll be away and running. The CL is a super little camera. The 18-56 isn’t very fast but it is very versatile.

The reason I have a CL and a QP is because you can’t get a fast wide lens for the CL. I had a 24 Summilux for my M10, which was a completely amazing lens. The QP with 28 1.7 is not far off, and MUCH cheaper than a 24 Summilux on its own. But with the CL, you’re a bit stuck. So...I have a 23 f/2 for the CL too, but that’ll probably get sole as the QP does the business now.
 
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#36
If you are starting out with digital leica - £1k will get you a good M8 - OK it's not FF, but spend you money gradually on lens - if Leica suits you, take care of the M8 and you will always sell it near what you paid as you move on to the next RF

to me Leica has been and always will be RF and MF...... if you want AF and bells and whistles, look to other manufacturers as you will get better value for money, (and better equipment!!)
 
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#37
Thanks all, the decision seems to have been made for me by my bank manager, I'm leaning towards a CL with 18-56mm.

However, how much do I pay.

CameraBuster's prices range from £2799-£3285.

Thats a difference of £486, not to be sniffed at.

https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk...s/Leica-CL-Camera-Vario-Kit-With-18-56mm-Lens

The only dealer I have had experience of is Park, the dearest wouldn't ya-know.

Any advise please as to where I should shop?
Save yourself £2k+ and get the lens you want attached to a camera for £599.
https://www.lcegroup.co.uk/Used/Leica-X-Vario-with-half-case_241901.html


You wanted the best value Leica.....you will never beat this!
 
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#38
I can see why the X Vario has its fans, but the lack of built-in viewfinder, which means you have to buy a £340 EVF 2 (or the cheaper Olympus equivalent) to use it a eye level, limits its appeal to me.
 
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#39
I can see why the X Vario has its fans, but the lack of built-in viewfinder, which means you have to buy a £340 EVF 2 (or the cheaper Olympus equivalent) to use it a eye level, limits its appeal to me.
I used to have the olympus viewfinder for mine. They can be picked up for about £80 and still make it the best value Leica. Which is what the original poster asked for.
 
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