Leica m2 50mm options.

[Ben johns]

I only have a 35mm f2 on my leica atm. It’s a little wide sometimes for outdoors so I’d like a 50mm which I’m more used to. What’s the cheapest way to go about getting one? I was looking at a Pentacon auto 50mm 1.8 and using a m42 to m adaptor

 

[Ben johns]

Just realised that it won’t be rangefinder coupled!

 

[Asha]

I have a jupiter lens ( russian) 50mm which iirc is M39 screw fit but it has a Leica adapter as it came with my M4

I've never used it tbh as i also have the 50mm sumicron.

I cannot remember all the exact details ( min aperture etc etc ) without digging it out but if you might be interested , I'd be glad to post it up in classifieds.
I dunno what sort of value it has but russian stuff doesn't typically cost a mint!

Edit, I'll put it on my M4 and check that it couples with the viewfinder!

 

[mdjchat]

The Canon LTM lenses will couple to the rangefinder with an appropriate adapter and won't have any focus issues. The 50mm f1.8 is meant to be very good and quite inexpensive. The Leica 50mm f2.8 elmar can be had for not too much money (In Leica terms) and is supposed to be a good sharp lens. Personally I would steer clear of the Soviet lenses as they can have focus issues. I had the Voigtlander 50mm f1.5 Nokton ltm for a long time until I bought my Summicron DR. It was a little heavy but fantastically sharp and the extra stop of light was useful. Their prices have increased though and they sell for something like £400 or so now. So not the cheapest option. Anything modern by Zeiss is a guaranteed winner but won't be cheap.

 

[Asha]

steer clear of the Soviet lenses as they can have focus issues.

Is this something that you've experienced often? as I've used loads of Russian lenses over the years and NEVER had any focussing issues ( except with my own failing eyesight of course)

 

[mdjchat]

Is this something that you've experienced often? as I've used loads of Russian lenses over the years and NEVER had any focussing issues ( except with my own failing eyesight of course)

I know that's a contentious thing to say.

Personally I've used a Jupiter 12 on a Fed 2 and a Canon 7. Unscientifically speaking I wasn't as impressed when I tried it on the Canon. It seemed sharper on the Fed.

Other than that direct experience I can only go on the vast amount of other user experience and information that has been shared online. It is accepted that the Russian lenses were made using pre war Zeiss designs which have a different lens to film plane distance than Leica used for their lenses. The result being that it's possible to calibrate the RF for near focusing or for infinity when using a non Soviet camera body (Leica/ Canon etc) but not for both. So one or the other will be out. This is more noticeable with longer lenses but can have an effect on 50mm lenses according to some users. It's a variable that I wasn't willing to risk.

I have used the Jupiter 8 and the Industar 26 on a Fed 2 and Zorki 4k and when used on Soviet bodies I have no issue with them. They have produced nice, sharp images with good character.

A final point that I would make is that the build quality (or even the maintenance regime) for Russian lenses can make buying them a bit of a lottery. It's not unusual for some people to buy multiple copies before they find a good one. If that is the case then the cost of multiple lenses may well match the cost of the inexpensive Canon 50mm lens.

As with anything your mileage may vary and there are people like yourself who are fortunate to have had good results.

All the best,

Mat.

 

[spark303]

I’ve used a Jupiter 8 and an Industar 26 variously on a Zorki 1, Zorki 3, Canon IId, Canon 7 and Leica M3. Maybe I don’t have a critical enough eye, but like Asha, I’ve not noticed any focussing issues using these Soviet lenses on any of the bodies and I’ve never gotten the impressions that the lenses give sharper results on the Soviet bodies than the others.

Build quality is another matter however - definitely a few steps down from Canon or Leitz quality At least the lenses are fairly straightforward to take apart and CLA...

 

[Nomad Z]

The Jupiter lenses were based on Zeiss originals and, as such, the focussing helicals are for Contax, and not Leica. I don't know the numbers, but it seems that the helicals have a slightly different pitch. When the Zeiss lenses were converted to a Leica fit, they retained the Contax helical pitch, and the cameras were then designed to give correlation between RF patch and actual focus at the film plane.

If you take a Jupiter lens and put it on a Leica, there may well be a point where there is correlation between RF patch and actual focus, but it will drift out at other focus distances. How much of an issue this is depends on the depth of focus in a given circumstance. The 35mm Jupiter-12 (Zeiss Biogon) stopped down and focussed on a fairly distant object wouldn't be much of a problem, but a 50mm F1.5 Jupiter-3 (Sonnar) wide open and focussed close could well be out.

The fix is to partially dismantle the lens and adjust the position of the optical assembly within the helical mechanism. In other words, you calibrate it for best accuracy at short focus distances, and let increasing depth of focus with distance take care of the rest. Basically, you tweak the lens and focus on a target with the RF patch, and then check focus with a ground glass on the image plane (using a loupe). When they coincide at close focus, put the lens back together.

The calibration itself isn't too difficult, but you have to be confident with not losing tiny screws, which means having suitable tools and a steady hand. There's a fair chance that the grease in the helical (and diaphragm) will be dried up and need replacing, so you'd be half-way there if you were doing that anyway. Or, if you were to send the lens off for a CLA, send it to somebody that can calibrate it for Leica.

Last I looked, which was a few years ago, the f1.5 Jupiter-3 was starting to get pricey (£100 or so), while the f2 Jupiter-8 (also Sonnar) was still fairly cheap (£30-ish). A J-3 plus CLA is probably going to cost enough that looking at other options is viable. An early style J-8 might be worthwhile depending on what the CLA costs. (Later style J-8s aren't as nice - lots of the lens, including the aperture scale, rotates when focussing as a result of the mechanical design changing to make them cheaper to manufacture.)

 

[mdjchat]

[emoji651]️[emoji651]️[emoji651]️ what he said! [emoji28] I knew someone could explain it better than me. Good point about the early vs later style lenses. The handling of the later style is compromised.

 

[Retune]

Not the very cheapest option, but the (screwmount) Summitar is often well-priced and definitely worth considering if you can find a clean one that is coated (later production). I think mine was £225 a couple of years ago. It has a few idiosyncracies, including 'interesting' swirly bokeh and a strange filter thread you'll need an adapter for if you want to use modern filters (search ebay for 'SNHOO' - modern replicas are fine).

 

[FujiLove]

I had a Canon 50mm f1.8 LTM Serenar lens on my M3 which was excellent and great value.

 

[Ben johns]

I had a Canon 50mm f1.8 LTM Serenar lens on my M3 which was excellent and great value.

Nice, I’ll have a look at them.
Might have a look at the artisans 50mm 1.1, if I don’t find an old lens I like, Can be got for £230 new. Let’s in loads of light but I’ve heard it’s not that good

 

[FruitFlakes]

The first version of the Leica 50mm Elmar-M should be around £250 if you can live with 2.8. There's also the Voigtlander 50mm 2.5 Color-Skopar, and the aforementioned 50mm 1.5 Nokton (which can be found for under £300).

What 35mm do you have? Would make sense to pair a similar rendering 50 to that one.

 

[FujiLove]

There's also the Voigtlander 50mm 2.5 Color-Skopar

I looked at that 50mm f2.5 Skopar before I bought the Canon, but it had some mediocre reviews. Probably Internet waffle, but it put me off!

 

[Ben johns]

The first version of the Leica 50mm Elmar-M should be around £250 if you can live with 2.8. There's also the Voigtlander 50mm 2.5 Color-Skopar, and the aforementioned 50mm 1.5 Nokton (which can be found for under £300).

What 35mm do you have? Would make sense to pair a similar rendering 50 to that one.

I actually have the artisans 35mm f2. I was looking at the voigtlander 35mm 1.4 but the prices were too much at the time so i plumped for the artisans. I actually really like it, sharp enough for what i use film for and i managed to get it for £200. but the f2 isnt the greatest for indoors in the evening, my settins will usually be HP5 at 3200, 1/60 f2 and its a hair underexposed.

 

[mdjchat]

I actually have the artisans 35mm f2. I was looking at the voigtlander 35mm 1.4 but the prices were too much at the time so i plumped for the artisans. I actually really like it, sharp enough for what i use film for and i managed to get it for £200. but the f2 isnt the greatest for indoors in the evening, my settins will usually be HP5 at 3200, 1/60 f2 and its a hair underexposed.

Not taking into account motion blur from moving subjects I've found that it's no problem getting sharp images at 1/30 sec using my M2 and 50mm lens. I've had success down to 1/8 sec even. Worth considering if you'd like to let in a little more light with your 35mm lens.

 

[Deleted member 21335]

Not taking into account motion blur from moving subjects I've found that it's no problem getting sharp images at 1/30 sec using my M2 and 50mm lens. I've had success down to 1/8 sec even. Worth considering if you'd like to let in a little more light with your 35mm lens.

Agree with this. For some reason, I can handhold film a lot slower than I ever could with digital. I was confident hand holding my Hasselblad at 1/15 and would have no problem with the Leica at that or, as you say, a stop slower.

What's your budget for a 50mm out of interest. I do toy with the idea os selling my M3 setup but probably shouldn't.

 

[Ben johns]

Not taking into account motion blur from moving subjects I've found that it's no problem getting sharp images at 1/30 sec using my M2 and 50mm lens. I've had success down to 1/8 sec even. Worth considering if you'd like to let in a little more light with your 35mm lens.

I can hand hold 1/30, don’t know about 1/8! But it’s because I’m normally taking photos of people, usually my 2 year old so the faster shutter speed the better!

 

[Ben johns]

Agree with this. For some reason, I can handhold film a lot slower than I ever could with digital. I was confident hand holding my Hasselblad at 1/15 and would have no problem with the Leica at that or, as you say, a stop slower.

What's your budget for a 50mm out of interest. I do toy with the idea os selling my M3 setup but probably shouldn't.

I’m not sure tbh. If the right thing came along £250 maybe but that wouldn’t be right away