Leica SL , 24MP FF Mirrorless Camera

ReidReviews rates it as a good camera which is a start! He doesn't pepper his reviews with as many superlatives as most of the pre release Leica reviewers
It's probably superior to the A7 for a lot of situations, its just whether it's worth 2-3x the price of their various models.... That kit zoom is an expensive beast.
 
If I were to ever spend that sort of coin on a camera I'd want to be able to hand it down to the kids. Sadly in this digital day and age that's never gonna happen.
I'd rather buy a leica ma
 
Yeah, very true. I'm not sure how long I'd trust it with the tech reliance. Saying that, I have an M240 and with that i'm still dubious that it'll burn out long before I'm able to pass it down anywhere... It's all about an M6!
 
have you seen the size of it! there are some pics on DPreview. So much for mirrorless meaning smaller and compact :)
 
AshleyC said:
have you seen the size of it! there are some pics on DPreview. So much for mirrorless meaning smaller and compact :)
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Yes that DP Review photo looks massive. I thought it was a fake when i first looked!
 
I'm still trying to get my head around how any manufacturer can make such an ugly looking system? Of course, some Leica followers are already seeing it as the messiah looking at some forums but apart from the higher-res EVF and an 11fps burst mode (fixed focus/fixed exposure) I really fail to see what it offers over even an original A7 let alone an A7Rii? The kit lens is ridiculous in both size and price and the handling looks to be pretty unique with combinations of button presses/holds to enable basics like exposure compensation. I guess it comes down to those who feel that the Red dot is enough for them to look like a photographer ;0)
 
It even makes a D800E with 24-120 look small

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I'm not alone in hoping for an interchangeable lens version of the Q, but this thing is so off the mark it's almost ridiculous. It seems to overlap with the S in terms of size, it's relatively low res, and it has soft buttons instead of purpose marked manual aperture and shutter speed controls. I'm sure the pictures will be nice, but oh my, it looks like a house brick.

I really thought Leica were onto something with the Q, and were going to build on that. Instead we have this monstrosity. Oh dear.
 
I presume this would be aimed at a pro shooter who would normally buy a traditional high end nikon or sony DSLR but is looking for a mirrorless option, so the huge weight will not bother them as they are used to using a heavy DSLR.

Leica has never aimed for the mass market and I can't see this being any exception.
 
There seem to be a lot of people suggesting this would be interesting to a Pro shooter but I'm not sure how? On release there is only the ($5k!) walkabout range lens with the telephoto out by the end of the year followed by the 50mm during 2016. If the kit lens is 5k, it's safe to assume a telephoto and 1.4 prime will be at least the same price so where's the financial sense for any Pro to spend that much on a system?
 
I don't understand the advantage of a mirrorless camera over a dSLR if it's the same size or even bigger than a dSLR.
 
At first look I can't say that I see this as an attractive camera but I thought that about the Sony A7 when I saw the first pictures of it and now I think it's almost handsome :D I did say almost :D

One thing which did surprise me when I first read about this new Leica was that they were launching it with two zooms and one prime. I might have the wrong impression but I associate Leica more with wide to "normal" fast-ish primes than zooms and I'd have expected the system to launch with three primes, something like 24, 28 or 35mm and 50mm primes and maybe an 85mm too? Some combination of those and all at least f2 and possibly f1.4?

It'll be interesting to see how this compares to the Sony A7 system and if they've avoided some of the contentious issues dogging the Sony such as relatively poor battery life. With a relatively big Leica body maybe they've put a beefier battery in it? It'll be interesting to see how well the various focus modes work too as that seems to be another area of constant criticism of the Sony A7x system.

TimmyG said:
I don't understand the advantage of a mirrorless camera over a dSLR if it's the same size or even bigger than a dSLR.
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I'd still see advantages, WYSIWYG, in view histograms and other goodies, constant exposure and DoF preview, focus aids such as peaking and magnified view, zebras etc and being able to see in the dark.
 
Leica's problem is the M-series, on which the whole company depends. The M9 saved Leica from disaster and was a great Phoenix-like success, but much of that was fulfilling years of pent up demand from the old Leica pool. Now those easy sales have been made, Leica needs to grow a new market and that's what's been driving recent introductions, with differing levels of success.

But this new camera is so far off the mark, in so many ways... Frankly, I'm lost for words.
 
HoppyUK said:
Leica's problem is the M-series, on which the whole company depends....

But this new camera is so far off the mark, in so many ways... Frankly, I'm lost for words.
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They seem to have bought a scatter gun and just can't stop using it. How many cameras and mounts... I don't know.

With that other thing (I can't remember the model number/name) I thought they wanted to be Apple or Samsung and with this latest offering it looks like they'd quite like to be Sony. Maybe they'll work out what direction they want to go in if the RF market isn't enough to support them or maybe they'd be better putting new camera systems on hold for a while and instead aiming to take some lens market share away from Zeiss.
 
woof woof said:
They seem to have bought a scatter gun and just can't stop using it. How many cameras and mounts... I don't know.

With that other thing (I can't remember the model number/name) I thought they wanted to be Apple or Samsung and with this latest offering it looks like they'd quite like to be Sony. Maybe they'll work out what direction they want to go in if the RF market isn't enough to support them or maybe they'd be better putting new camera systems on hold for a while and instead aiming to take some lens market share away from Zeiss.
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Leica is in a very difficult position (again) I fear. Unless they can reinvent the M cameras on regular basis and re-sell to the same customers. Porsche has been doing that for many years with the 911. I don't recall the exact figures, but a very large proportion of Porsche's profits come from that one car, despite the fact that they have a very good range of other models. Leica has itself drawn parallels with Porsche, but I'm not sure the same trick works with cameras.

I don't have any answers, but wish Leica luck. Unfortunately, Leica's ace card, it's great heritage, means nothing to most younger buyers.
 
Huge, poorly labelled and lack of controls. Horrific. Can't wait to put this up against some Fujis on camerasize.com :)
 
HoppyUK said:
Leica is in a very difficult position (again) I fear. Unless they can reinvent the M cameras on regular basis and re-sell to the same customers. Porsche has been doing that for many years with the 911. I don't recall the exact figures, but a very large proportion of Porsche's profits come from that one car, despite the fact that they have a very good range of other models. Leica has itself drawn parallels with Porsche, but I'm not sure the same trick works with cameras.

I don't have any answers, but wish Leica luck. Unfortunately, Leica's ace card, it's great heritage, means nothing to most younger buyers.
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Total thread diversion and apologies for it but I understand with Porsche that, at least historically, the opposite was true. Porsche were really on the brink in the mid 90's and the Boxster and then the Cayenne saved them. They became the most profitable car company in the world for some time. I suspect what has happened since is that all of the part sharing between each model has boosted profitability across the whole range and of course they've also since been hoovered up by VAG.

As for the Leica, I was just about on board (subject to a medium sized lottery win!) but the sheer size of the thing is pretty off putting. I'd always thought of Leicas as quite subtle cameras. You'd have to really badly want this over the Sony A7 or any of the other myriad of options.
 
Before reading the specs I assumed from the image that it was medium format and thought it was cool
 
I thought medium format too !
But, as it's got a red dot on the front, it will be amazing !!!
 
stevelmx5 said:
There seem to be a lot of people suggesting this would be interesting to a Pro shooter but I'm not sure how? On release there is only the ($5k!) walkabout range lens with the telephoto out by the end of the year followed by the 50mm during 2016. If the kit lens is 5k, it's safe to assume a telephoto and 1.4 prime will be at least the same price so where's the financial sense for any Pro to spend that much on a system?
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A 'kit lens' by Leica will knock spots off the best Nikon and Canon lenses in this focal range.
 
Laudrup said:
A 'kit lens' by Leica will knock spots off the best Nikon and Canon lenses in this focal range.
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You're right of course. But how many people would really notice the difference at the normal size/resolution that most pictures are viewed at?
It's a hefty price premium for a small return in the increase in quality.
All IMHO of course.
 
Laudrup said:
A 'kit lens' by Leica will knock spots off the best Nikon and Canon lenses in this focal range.
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Check out Ming Theins review of the SL Kit lens. It's not actually that great. You have to stop down on the long end to receive edge sharpness, which is a bit frustrating once you've spent $5K...
I stick to their M primes. Now they're good.
 
GHP said:
You're right of course. But how many people would really notice the difference at the normal size/resolution that most pictures are viewed at?
It's a hefty price premium for a small return in the increase in quality.
All IMHO of course.
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At this price it would most probably be aimed at working professionals or the well heeled Leica customers who have a stash of R lenses or the usual Leica stereotype of dentists and doctors to put on their shelves. The R lens users weren't best pleased when no digital solution for them looked to be happening so hopefully this is a solution, albeit an expensive one. Bit too large and ugly for me, but if you want these sort of quality optics you need a big lens and I suppose a big lens on a tiny camera is unappealing for lots of reasons.
 
It's literally 1mm wider than a D800, it's the lack of of buttons and monolithic/minimalist design that makes it look huge. Wish it looked more like the S, but the features list is nice and exactly what I'd expect from Canikon (well the Canon version would feature a less comprehensive video mode - gotta keep selling those C-series bodies :p) if they were to introduce a pro mirrorless system that balances well with FF lenses. Apparently the single point AF on the SL is really good but like most mirrorless cameras the tracking lets it down.
 
To be fair, the camera body isn't that much bigger than the Sony A7 - it's the huge zoom lens that makes it look enormous. It will be interesting to see what it looks like with an adapted M series lens on it. It might have been better if they'd released it with a compact 35/2 prime instead of that huge zoom.
 
rich_ said:
Check out Ming Theins review of the SL Kit lens. It's not actually that great. You have to stop down on the long end to receive edge sharpness, which is a bit frustrating once you've spent $5K...
I stick to their M primes. Now they're good.
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It's a preproduction unit though with not a lot of time to use it and test it fully so I take these early reviews with a pinch of salt. Almost no improvement from f/2.8 to f/8 at the wide end sounds impressive. I had an M9 and some nice M primes, but the EVF revolution is good for Leica shooters of a certain age. The resolution looks to be the only thing that could be doing with a bump although as Ming said it could cannabalize S sales.
 
boliston said:
I presume this would be aimed at a pro shooter who would normally buy a traditional high end nikon or sony DSLR but is looking for a mirrorless option, so the huge weight will not bother them as they are used to using a heavy DSLR.

Leica has never aimed for the mass market and I can't see this being any exception.
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I doubt many pro will be buying into this Leica,a lot better gear out their for the pro,more an rich man toy :)
 
stevelmx5 said:
At $5k I'd expect it to knock spots of any lens in their range but with a variable aperture and ridiculous size it looks more like it's been designed around compensation than ability.
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If you want/need constant aperture you can buy the Leica 35-70mm f2.8 Vario-Elmarit-R ASPH on ebay for $17,200. I wouldn't be too worried about the ability of a lens at that price made by Leica.
 
Laudrup said:
Nobody is stopping them.
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Then shall we call the Nikon 24-70 their kit lens for a certain target audience, that's still only $1900? The difference is CaNikon don't just design products for the upper end and overprice them.
 
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twist said:
Then shall we call the Nikon 24-70 their kit lens for a certain target audience, that's still only $1900? The difference is Nikon don't just design products for the upper end and overprice them.
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They are catering to different markets. The Nikon 24-70 is a good workhorse but not going to be competing with lenses much more expensive and better corrected. You are getting what you pay for from materials to QC to after service.
 
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