Lencarta Triggers

Phil V said:
At the risk of swaying even further OT, seeing as Mike and Garry are around (new to this so I'm at risk of sounding daft):

If I get a pair of Safari's and trigger them with a PW flex (or indeed if I shot Nikon with the Lencarta triggers) How could I meter for HSS? Presumably, a flash meter is going to view the entire flash duration, or...
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You can't with a hand meter.

Thinking about this - does it even matter? does the exposure just come from the brightest part of the flash cycle?

Straight question - can I rely on flash metering whilst using HSS and Safari (or any other ) flash heads?
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The camera can meter HSS in auto-TTL mode because it issues a pre-flash and knows all the HSS parameters. But you can't use a hand meter, not for HSS or for tail-hypersync, becuse there are a lot of things going on that the meter doesn't know about (though you could meter for peak-hypersync).
 
So I can't meter them, and if I'm making manual calculations, they'll be wrong. SO it's trial and error - and I'd hope learning from my mistakes enough so that I can guess ball park figures and tweak.:help:
 
HoppyUK said:
You can't with a hand meter.



The camera can meter HSS in auto-TTL mode because it issues a pre-flash and knows all the HSS parameters. But you can't use a hand meter, not for HSS or for tail-hypersync, becuse there are a lot of things going on that the meter doesn't know about (though you could meter for peak-hypersync).
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Sorry Richard I could have added more info - I already use the PW flex with HSS in ETTL, I also use them as straight triggers for some cheap studio flash. The questions are to prepare for when I can afford some decent quality studio lights, and whether I'll buy mains powered and stick with the flashguns for outside or get the Safari LiOns.

And I have no idea which bit of the flash the meter measures and how I would alter it? I've assumed it meters for it all and as Mike says, that'll make the measurement a bit useless.:(
 
treeman said:
Really? that's the one time I rely on it.

To be able to check what percentage of daylight vs flash light, is a must for me!

"Different folks different strokes" I guess :)
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Very, very true.

The light meter (as in, the camera light meter) gives me my base to work from. Once I have the ambient levels, I know where I'm going.
If you are working on a sunny day and you're close to ambient, I find a hand held lightmeter very misleading, and it wastes a lot of time.

erm........... Whatchya usin'? That may be a better option for me if it's more reliable, although I have a Sekonic, I've also used a Minolta IV
 
Well, you may be able to meter them, your meter will need to be set at whatever shutter speed you are using, you will then get meaningful data.

But, when ambient light is also making a major contribution, it really doesn't matter much - it isn't difficult to see what you're getting with the histogram and to see whether you like what you're getting by looking at the camera screen.

I've spent today explaining to people on a lighting workshop why theory and lighting ratios don't matter and why the metered exposure isn't necessarily the right exposure. This is just another example of something that is nowhere near as important or as complicated as it seems to be.
 
Phil V said:
So I can't meter them, and if I'm making manual calculations, they'll be wrong. SO it's trial and error - and I'd hope learning from my mistakes enough so that I can guess ball park figures and tweak.:help:
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I can't remember when I actually used a flash meter for real. I don't know how much flash photography you do Phil, but it doesn't take long to know that at distance A with flash B on quarter power, with softbox C, you're going to be close to f/8 or whatever. Take it from there with histogram and blinkies.

Digital is incredibly liberating for this kind of thing. The stuff we do today using multiple guns up trees and behind furniture with radio triggers etc would just be impossibly complex with film. Many of today's common-place strobist techniques didn't really exist pre-digital. Different topic, but it's the same with ten-stop ND filters and very long exposures - just not possible with film.
 
Michael Sewell said:
erm........... Whatchya usin'? That may be a better option for me if it's more reliable, although I have a Sekonic, I've also used a Minolta IV
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Sekonic L758.

I set up my main light, take a reading (wireless using PW's), it measures the daylight and flash at the same time and tells me what percentage of each I'm getting. Depending on what I want to achieve I adjust accordingly, then work my other lights around that.

For me, I find that really simple and quick :)
 
HoppyUK said:
I can't remember when I actually used a flash meter for real. I don't know how much flash photography you do Phil, but it doesn't take long to know that at distance A with flash B on quarter power, with softbox C, you're going to be close to f/8 or whatever. Take it from there with histogram and blinkies.

Digital is incredibly liberating for this kind of thing. The stuff we do today using multiple guns up trees and behind furniture with radio triggers etc would just be impossibly complex with film. Many of today's common-place strobist techniques didn't really exist pre-digital. Different topic, but it's the same with ten-stop ND filters and very long exposures - just not possible with film.
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You're right Richard, I'm not doing enough of it, when I used to run the mobile portrait studio, it was done from experience. Then I went for years of using no off camera lighting. As I've got back into it I guess I'm lacking the belief in my instincts, so I lean on the meter or on ETTL where I should trust myself more. Thanks guys.
 
Phil V said:
Sorry Richard I could have added more info - I already use the PW flex with HSS in ETTL, I also use them as straight triggers for some cheap studio flash. The questions are to prepare for when I can afford some decent quality studio lights, and whether I'll buy mains powered and stick with the flashguns for outside or get the Safari LiOns.

And I have no idea which bit of the flash the meter measures and how I would alter it? I've assumed it meters for it all and as Mike says, that'll make the measurement a bit useless.:(
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In practise, a meter is pretty hopeless for tail-hypersync. The final exposure settings not only depend on the shutter speed, but also the travel speed of the shutter blinds, the flash duration and also the exact shape of the pulse curve, and where you want to position the brightest zone in the image. PWs also allow you to fine tune the exact sync moment. Not to mention the influence of ambient.

You could, by extensive trial and error, work out a compensation factor for every possible permutation, but that would only hold good for one camera and one flash. In practise though, it's really not a problem - use your loaf, couple of test shots, and you're there.

Edit: sorry Phil, bit of cross-posting going on at my end ;)
 
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treeman said:
Sekonic L758.

I set up my main light, take a reading (wireless using PW's), it measures the daylight and flash at the same time and tells me what percentage of each I'm getting. Depending on what I want to achieve I adjust accordingly, then work my other lights around that.

For me, I find that really simple and quick :)
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Hmm, i may take a look at the 758, although Once I have the ambient, I know exactly where I'm going, so it may be a little redundant for my work.




But you never know :naughty:
 
HoppyUK said:
In practise, a meter is pretty hopeless for tail-hypersync. The final exposure settings not only depend on the shutter speed, but also the travel speed of the shutter blinds, the flash duration and also the exact shape of the pulse curve, and where you want to position the brightest zone in the image. PWs also allow you to fine tune the exact sync moment. Not to mention the influence of ambient.

You could, by extensive trial and error, work out a compensation factor for every possible permutation, but that would only hold good for one camera and one flash. In practise though, it's really not a problem - use your loaf, couple of test shots, and you're there.

Edit: sorry Phil, bit of cross-posting going on at my end ;)
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Sorry about the cross posting - but not about the incomprehensible detail above:shrug:

Thanks - it's a bit beyond my technical understanding - but one of the reasons I read all the studio light threads, one day it might make sense to me.
 
Phil V said:
Sorry about the cross posting - but not about the incomprehensible detail above:shrug:

Thanks - it's a bit beyond my technical understanding - but one of the reasons I read all the studio light threads, one day it might make sense to me.
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TBH Phil, not many people do understand how it all works, if only because they don't need to in order to use whatever product it is and get the most from it. As far as this bit of the debate is concerned, you just need to know that you can't us a flash meter for tail-hypersync - fundamentally because it's actually a small and variable slice of continuous light for exposure purposes.

I happen to quite enjoy techy stuff, but if you want to know more about flash, and studio flash vs IGBT, durations and power control, all overlaid with the confusing machinations of the focal plane shutter, then there's a lot of stuff on the PW website.
 
Thanks Richard I'll check it out. Always willing to learn something different.
 
JonathanRyan said:
So these are tail sync triggers after all?
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The misunderstanding could be my fault. We've been discussing PW Flex's.
 
Whatever happened to these magic triggers? My wife has just moved to a Nikon D800 & I recalled how these triggers were lauded at launch but when I look on the Lencarta website they are nowhere to be found. Were the claims false or are they now selling a cheaper alternative that also works the high speed magic?
 
nigelbb said:
Whatever happened to these magic triggers? My wife has just moved to a Nikon D800 & I recalled how these triggers were lauded at launch but when I look on the Lencarta website they are nowhere to be found. Were the claims false or are they now selling a cheaper alternative that also works the high speed magic?
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Sadly, they are no longer available. But Yongnuo now have one that does much the same job.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Sadly, they are no longer available. But Yongnuo now have one that does much the same job.
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Garry, thanks for the prompt reply. Do you have a model number for the Yongnuo triggers? Yongnuo seem to have a number of different triggers & flashes available.
 
nigelbb said:
Garry, thanks for the prompt reply. Do you have a model number for the Yongnuo triggers? Yongnuo seem to have a number of different triggers & flashes available.
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Yongnuo 622. YN calls it SuperSync.
 
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