Light placement help please

Seajay

Seajay

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Cathy
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Hi all,
would like some help on how to place my lights for a set up with two lights.
I tried with a white paper background for the first time today and this was in my garage so not a huge space.
I had my soft box to the right and the other light with nothing on it pointing at the background as i had no idea where to put it really
Charly my granddaughter sat on the paper to allow me to see how it all looked.Well not great! as i think the second light should have been behind her and not in front as i have a huge shadow to her right.
Anyway any advice would be good please. Most of the other snaps were close shots took this to let you see the set up better.
Cathy



Bad lighting to fix by Cooriedoon, on Flickr
 
Put your second flash in your bag or a drawer... :D

Try slowing your shutter down a bit and get your softbox as close to the subject as possible and your subject as far away from the background as possible too.

As for the second light on a more serious note, I've only ever done it once and I had it directly behind the subject pointing at the wall. You can try adding gels to it aswell to make the picture look very different.

Keep trying, you'll get the hang of it.
 
Lol! David thank you :)

I intend to keep trying and did watch Gary's video since posting which was helpful but I only have two lights right now.
So are you telling me one light eg softbox will work but will that not give me a grey background?
Oh so much to learn but I do love it :)
Cathy
 
I think in your case you'll want to place the light over head pointing toward your subject as that will give you the least shadows, the second light can be put to many uses but if you're trying to get a bright white background you'll need 2 lights just for the background and enough distance from the subject to reduce spill.

In other words, with only 2 lights you'll not get a perfect white background unless you want to do so in post processing but there's plenty of other shots those 2 lights will allow you to produce. I have zero experience with portraits but I'd lean towards just one light or using the second for a hair light or a spot on a coloured background.

I'm not sure why shutter speed should matter here.
 
The best light placement is wherever it gives the result that you personally are happy with, it's as simple as that, there are no rights or wrongs and you have nobody to please except yourself.

But, if you're interested on my opinion of what I might have done...
She's a young girl with good features and good skin, there's no need to use soft light to hide faults that don't exist.
I don't see why you've put the light in a faux Rembrandt position, you aren't Rembrandt and you're using a camera not a paintbrush and although the shadow on the background doesn't really bother me, the shadow on her face does. Put that light directly in front of where her face is pointing and pretty high up and you'll get a much more flattering shot with the shadows in the right place. And the shadow created by your subject will be hidden behind her, job done.

Second light? Put it away until you've exhausted all the learning possibilities of using 1 light.
 
Seajay said:
So are you telling me one light eg softbox will work but will that not give me a grey background?
Click to expand...


The further something is from your light source the less light it will receive (the Inverse Square Law) so if your subject is exposed correctly anything behind them is going to be under exposed even if only slightly.

To achieve a white background you use 2 lights just on the background and over expose it slightly (compared to your main subject) which should result in an evenly illuminated white background (the darker the background the more you'll need to over expose). There are other ways to achieve it such as using a Lastolite Hilite or if your softbox is large enough use that as the background, I'm of the opinion these are less desirable methods but whatever works...
 
Seajay said:
Lol! David thank you :)

I intend to keep trying and did watch Gary's video since posting which was helpful but I only have two lights right now.
So are you telling me one light eg softbox will work but will that not give me a grey background?
Oh so much to learn but I do love it :)
Cathy
Click to expand...
Is there any particular reason why you want the background to be white? If so then yes, you do need 2 lights just on the background, but you will be tight on space to do it well and it will take a lot of care to get it looking good in a small space.
 
Garry your advice is always welcome :)
Rembrandt? you mean I got one light in a place that has a name lol! Honestly I just popped them on with no real idea of where they should be. I just switched on looked at my camera and could see they were not great.
Rather than bore Charly I said I would ask for help and we will try with her again another day
She not knowing about lighting :) liked some of her close up shots so not all bad.
I will follow the advice given and try again.

Simon thank you I get it now about lighting that paper background . I will eventually get another light.
Cathy
 
Garry Edwards said:
Is there any particular reason why you want the background to be white? If so then yes, you do need 2 lights just on the background, but you will be tight on space to do it well and it will take a lot of care to get it looking good in a small space.
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No Gary I just thought it should be white but I don't mind it being the colour it is if I can get my subject looking good without that shadow.

My space is 9ft wide by about 13 feet long
Cathy
 
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Seajay said:
Garry your advice is always welcome :)
Rembrandt? you mean I got one light in a place that has a name lol! Honestly I just popped them on with no real idea of where they should be. I just switched on looked at my camera and could see they were not great.
Rather than bore Charly I said I would ask for help and we will try with her again another day
She not knowing about lighting :) liked some of her close up shots so not all bad.
I will follow the advice given and try again.

Simon thank you I get it now about lighting that paper background . I will eventually get another light.
Cathy
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Well, if you didn't know about Mr Rembrandt then it was either an accident or you've been reading the advice of 'experts' in Practical Photography :)
 
It's something that alot of videos bang on about on youtube. Not something I'm overly keen on myself but I have tried it.

Light drops off really quickly so research the inverse square law to get a better idea of what it all means. I have a vague idea myself but need to do a bit more research myself as there's a lot to take in. Well, alot to remember in my case. :LOL:

Try it with one light behind her and shoot into it for some different effects too. It's all about having fun with your subject and interacting to get them to do silly things (but then my model is only 6 years old, maybe it's different for older ones. ;) )
 
Had another go with one light tonight and I can see it will all come with practise and taking note of what settings are better than others.
May need a light meter in future too.

url=https://flic.kr/p/oTDkQL]
15024276080_f31a0581df_o.jpg
[/url]one light on subject by Cooriedoon, on Flickr
 
Great result but I'd personally use a grey background so you need worry less about the background lighting and then use the second light as a rim light to add some contrast to the picture.
 
I may try that in the future Gaz but only just got my roll of white and need to learn to use it first.Then i will try some other colours.
Rim lighting will come too once i master this one light.Did a few more with hubby but they were all awful :}

I do love my lencarta lights and although my pics are in the very early stages of using flash,I am amazed at how little work needs to be done for the background lol!
I usually have something to get rid of.
Thanks for all the info I will keep practising and I am always happy to get any advice.
One of little Tom during the session and note to self make sure he cleans his nails next time Bless:)


Tom by Cooriedoon, on Flickr
 
Might be my monitor but those shots look a little warm as the white almost looks a light pink, you might want to try adjusting the colour temperature.
 
The trouble with white backgrounds is they need quite a lot of either soft even lighting or at least two hard reflectors to actually make them white.

Two things you could do to make turn your nice new white background a light grey is either feather the light so it doesn't fall as much on the background and pull your subject away from the background so it fall's off more making the exposure less on the background.

If you really want a pure white background a good method is to stand your subject in front of the softbox or illuminate a sheet of trace so it is pure white.
 
Seajay said:
No Gary I just thought it should be white but I don't mind it being the colour it is if I can get my subject looking good without that shadow.

My space is 9ft wide by about 13 feet long
Cathy
Click to expand...

When reading previous posts, check out the difference between loop lighting and Rembrandt lighting.

White background are becoming less and less popular. Your space is very limited so you will have difficulty in having your subject far enough away from the background not to get wrap around lite and even if you did manage this you then wouldn't be able to stand far enough from your model to get a good full length perspective.

So white backgrounds aren't really practical for you in this limited space, stick with shades of grey and you'll be just fine.
 
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JennyGW said:
So white backgrounds aren't really practical for you in this limited space, stick with shades of grey and you'll be just fine.
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Clever choice of light modifier could also help. Look for modifiers with a sharp fall off and keep it close to the subject to amplify its effects. A silver beauty dish springs to mind.
 
Thank you Gaz, Jenny and Simon I hear what you are all saying

My size is limited but I guess if I opened my garage door I could get further back not a great help but it would give me about 15 feet in length then.
I will try a roll of grey but right now just want to understand about the lights and where to position them for a reasonable effect to take some nice shots of the children. I would love to get more equipment like a beauty dish but that will come a little later. I may even try moving the lights indoors as I have very high ceilings which could help.

Simon your monitor is just fine you are quite right and I will play with the temperature inLightroom.

My grey card arrived today so that may help until I get a light meter.
Guessing I just have whoever is my little model hold it for a shot then use that image to help white balance in lightroom as I seen this done on youtube.
Cathy :)
 
Seajay said:
Thank you Gaz, Jenny and Simon I hear what you are all saying

My size is limited but I guess if I opened my garage door I could get further back not a great help but it would give me about 15 feet in length then.
I will try a roll of grey but right now just want to understand about the lights and where to position them for a reasonable effect to take some nice shots of the children. I would love to get more equipment like a beauty dish but that will come a little later. I may even try moving the lights indoors as I have very high ceilings which could help.

Simon your monitor is just fine you are quite right and I will play with the temperature inLightroom.

My grey card arrived today so that may help until I get a light meter.
Guessing I just have whoever is my little model hold it for a shot then use that image to help white balance in lightroom as I seen this done on youtube.
Cathy :)
Click to expand...

This is my headshot studio setup. I do 3/4 length if I have to, but I don't even bother trying beyond that. It works for what I need it for.

Not shown here are 3 x 60cm softboxes which I find very handy.

Hope this helps :)

 
Seajay said:
My size is limited but I guess if I opened my garage door I could get further back not a great help but it would give me about 15 feet in length then.
I will try a roll of grey but right now just want to understand about the lights and where to position them for a reasonable effect to take some nice shots of the children. I would love to get more equipment like a beauty dish but that will come a little later. I may even try moving the lights indoors as I have very high ceilings which could help.
Click to expand...

Try and experiment with the distance your light is from the subject (brolly or softbox). The further away the light, the less the difference in exposure between subject and background (background will appear whiter), however as you move the light away from the subject the harder it becomes so the transition between light and shadow will be quicker. Here using a large modifier will help with this. The closer the light to the subject the greater fall off so the darker the background but the quality of light on the subject will be softer meaning the transition from light to shadow is very gradual and highlights in the eyes have tone rather than being burnt out reflections of your modifier.

Its all a matter of finding the happy medium.
 
Jenny you are so kind and yes that image lets me see your set up clearly thank you so very much for sharing it.

I have only really just got my home studio lights out to play with as we have not long moved house.
It would be lovely to have all the correct gear and one day soon maybe I will, especially the better lenses and extra lights. I will save your image for future reference.
Gaz I will practise using all tips given on this thread it will take me a while I guess but I enjoy learning.
I like the idea of moving the light around and taking note of the changes in lighting and background but it is getting my family to sit long enough As they do get fed up as. I change my exposure a lot lol!
Think I need a head like Garry uses for practise.
Many thanks
Cathy
 
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I don't really use a manequin head for practice, it's more for demonstration and you don't need one.
My advice is to photograph a range of still life subjects - ordinary household items - they will all have different shapes, different textures, different reflectivity and you will learn an enormous amount from this. And they don't move, which means that the results will be entirely within your own control.

Lighting is about that enormous leap where you go from thinking that it's all about the QUANTITY of the light to realising that it's really all about the QUALITY of the light - the point where you realise that you can produce literally any lighting effect that you want, just by using thought, knowledge and skill.

You don't need a lot of lights, you don't need fancy modifiers and you don't need to bore your grandchildren with your learning process either:)

All that you need to do is to understand how light works - learn from looking at people, buildings and everything else that you see in your daily life, note how different they look in different lighting conditions and work out the effect that the light is having on them and how to replicate those lighting conditions to produce the same effects
 
Garry you are so right!

Okay on with the equipment I have for now and a look around the home for something to take.
Not having a human subject will be more relaxing too as I can watch the effect of how the light changes on whatever subject I use without interruption. I will give this a go and see what happens.
I do love natural daylight best especially for the kids but we don't always get that in the UK .
Question though?
How will I know when I have the light right? Or is the beauty of light in the eye of the beholder?

Maybe it's just shoot the image and perfect it next time :)

Thank you Garry :)
 
shakilearl said:
The white background turns out to be little red or magenta. Is it because you haven't adjusted your white balance yet?
Click to expand...

Shakil thank you.

I am going to have a play with Toms image today to see if I can get the white balance corrected.
So fingers crossed. I get it right :)
 
shakilearl said:
The white background turns out to be little red or magenta. Is it because you haven't adjusted your white balance yet?
Click to expand...
Seajay said:
Shakil thank you.

I am going to have a play with Toms image today to see if I can get the white balance corrected.
So fingers crossed. I get it right :)
Click to expand...


Its nothing to do with WB. That BG in this case is has too little light to give a genuine white background. Your WB should be set for the subject not the BG and in any case is known (or should be) from your lights
 
Hugh thank you but I think it was about the whole image really as it is a little red. I will sort it later
Cathy :)
 
Seajay said:
Garry you are so right!

Okay on with the equipment I have for now and a look around the home for something to take.
Not having a human subject will be more relaxing too as I can watch the effect of how the light changes on whatever subject I use without interruption. I will give this a go and see what happens.
I do love natural daylight best especially for the kids but we don't always get that in the UK .
Question though?
How will I know when I have the light right? Or is the beauty of light in the eye of the beholder?

Maybe it's just shoot the image and perfect it next time :)

Thank you Garry :)
Click to expand...
Yes, my view is that if it looks right to you then it's right.
 
boyfalldown said:
Its nothing to do with WB. That BG in this case is has too little light to give a genuine white background. Your WB should be set for the subject not the BG and in any case is known (or should be) from your lights
Click to expand...

That would result in the background being darker not pink and you can see the same result in front of the subject.
 
Well you would have laughed along with me today. My son brought his daughter down today to ask if I would take her photo with the lights as his mother in law loved the snap of Tom lol! So funny but guess they don't as long as it looks like who they see. She was viewing it on her phone so can't see the colours are not right.
However I do and will keep going. It was good as I got another chance to play.

Thank you everyone I am so pleased with all of your help.

Cathy


Anna by Cooriedoon, on Flickr
 
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