Light Room . . . 5/10????

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Sitting at home off sick . . . bored . . . I thought, take the time to have a closer look at 'Light Room' that is so raved about . . . ?

I am comparing it with the RAW plug-in that came with Elements v.7, a facility I use often.

It is obvious that Light Room is heavily into cataloging pictures, its multiple display and reference facility is excellent. However, the adjustment side of the program does no more than 'Elements RAW', with E'RAW having better adjustment indication with the various sliders related to numbers as a reference, especially useful in adjusting 'Kelvin' in WB. LR, as far as I can see, has no reference on the sliders simply 'up/down' arrows, so it is not easy to return to 'almost settings', the 'original setting' or have a mental note (number) to use as a reference?

I also have but rarly use, 'Elements v.8' which is more towards cataloging, I will have to have a look see, if its cataloging is lifted from the Light Room system?

I have had 'Light Room 2' on computer for 9 months, I did not like it when I first got it . . . frankly, I dont like it now either? It works just fine, but is not as user friendly in colour adjustment as I am used to.

5 out of 10 for colour adjustment, 9 out of 10 for cataloguing, IMHO as a technophobe . . . CJS
 
CJS said:
Sitting at home off sick . . . bored . . . I thought, take the time to have a closer look at 'Light Room' that is so raved about . . . ?

I am comparing it with the RAW plug-in that came with Elements v.7, a facility I use often.

It is obvious that Light Room is heavily into cataloging pictures, its multiple display and reference facility is excellent. However, the adjustment side of the program does no more than 'Elements RAW', with E'RAW having better adjustment indication with the various sliders related to numbers as a reference, especially useful in adjusting 'Kelvin' in WB. LR, as far as I can see, has no reference on the sliders simply 'up/down' arrows, so it is not easy to return to 'almost settings', the 'original setting' or have a mental note (number) to use as a reference?

I also have but rarly use, 'Elements v.8' which is more towards cataloging, I will have to have a look see, if its cataloging is lifted from the Light Room system?

I have had 'Light Room 2' on computer for 9 months, I did not like it when I first got it . . . frankly, I dont like it now either? It works just fine, but is not as user friendly in colour adjustment as I am used to.

5 out of 10 for colour adjustment, 9 out of 10 for cataloguing, IMHO as a technophobe . . . CJS
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really? :shrug:

its been a long time since I used elements, but at as an editing tool LR blows it out of the water
 
One answer ;)
If you don't like it remove it, as you have found it's not for everyone..;)
 
boyfalldown said:
really? :shrug:

its been a long time since I used elements, but at as an editing tool LR blows it out of the water
Click to expand...

I tell it as I find it for my simple applications, 'Elements v.7 RAW-pug-in' is better (more user friendly) for me . . . :thumbs:

I did not expect to much agreement on this one, LR is expensive :bang:, so, has to be better??? As I say, I will look at 'Elements v.8 cataloging', pound to a penny its lifted from LR?

CJS
 
CJS said:
LR, as far as I can see, has no reference on the sliders simply 'up/down' arrows, so it is not easy to return to 'almost settings', the 'original setting' or have a mental note (number) to use as a reference?
Click to expand...

Really - most if not all sliders have a number next to them. To return to default setting you double click the title of the setting.

Mostly I find that peoples trouble with lightroom is that they don't bother reading the manual or learning how it works. They just expect to jump straight in. Well, you won't necessarily understand the philosophy or workings of the program that way and get the best from it.

Can I suggest some tutorials:
http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/lightroom/articles/lir2am_videotutorials.html

These are lightroom 2 based but are a good grounding in the program
 
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neil_g said:
i struggled with LR the first time around, those videos cleared up every point i was struggling with.
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So did I until I went through the tutorials. It's not just an editing program, nor just a cataloguing program but a whole environment for the photographer.

Plus it's not expensive. £85 for the upgrade.

P.S. Just checked - everything has a number against a slider.
 
boyfalldown said:
really? :shrug:

its been a long time since I used elements, but at as an editing tool LR blows it out of the water
Click to expand...

Blows it out of the water . . . ? As does PhotoShop, but does one really need the potential sophistication(?) or extra cost. I would suggest the . . . average 'Tog' . . . can do just as well at a fraction of the cost?

CJS
 
Lightroom has a lot more to offer than the camera raw of elements 7.
Does elements 7 have lens correction in the raw converter?, or split toning, theres no hue saturation luminance ajustment, no curves. Then theres the ajustment brushes and gradients. The sharpening and noise reduction are also far superior in LR3.
 
CJS said:
Blows it out of the water . . . ? As does PhotoShop, but does one really need the potential sophistication(?) or extra cost. I would suggest the . . . average 'Tog' . . . can do just as well at a fraction of the cost?

CJS
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your OP didn't suggest that, or make any mention of the 'average tog' or the costs of any of these tools.

and yes LR blows Elements out of the water, both as a cataloging tool and an editing one
 
Byker28i said:
So did I until I went through the tutorials. It's not just an editing program, nor just a cataloguing program but a whole environment for the photographer.

Plus it's not expensive. £85 for the upgrade.

P.S. Just checked - everything has a number against a slider.
Click to expand...

Interesting . . . As I said at the beginning, 'LR is not user friendly to me'! Its a problem I am finding across the board these days . . . Digital this and that . . . those of us who were not brought up in this digital age suffer, remember when video recorders first came out, nightmare:gag:. Geeks who right the various programs and design product, seem not to understand, 'simple and user friendly', would go a long way to sell more product . . . Wadding through pages and pages of techno speak does not help? The word 'intuitive' comes to mind . . . occasionally it happens, only occasionally!!!

'Everything now has numbers' . . . is that in the upgrade?

£85 pounds is not cheap if you have to buy the original program first . . . at almost £250 for version '3'.

CJS
 
It's just a matter of getting used to it. I felt the same until I bought Scott kelby's book. It explains everything including many shortcuts and is a very easy read.
As the adage says "you only get out what you put in".
Once you get used to it's layout and the way the adjustments work then it is very easy to use.
Not only that the batch processing after a wedding/event is second to none.
Phil.
 
I thought all versions of Lr had numbers associated with the sliders?! I'm wondering if you are in the proper Develop Mode and not just quick develop.

Lr is a fantastic tool and like many others I rarely need t use Ps to get a finished file.
 
swanseamale47 said:
Lightroom has a lot more to offer than the camera raw of elements 7.
Does elements 7 have lens correction in the raw converter?, or split toning, theres no hue saturation luminance ajustment, no curves. Then theres the ajustment brushes and gradients. The sharpening and noise reduction are also far superior in LR3.
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"IMHO as a technophobe"

"5 out of 10 for colour adjustment"

Going deeper into the program, will, I presume, dig out the finer points . . . but as suggested, I require nothing more than the simple stuff, although I use curves a lot. I have worked out, on Elements RAW, the adjustments that are the same as Elements (for instance, sharpen) are far more subtle in the RAW plug-in.

I'm not saying Elements is better or as good as LR . . . but I am saying for 'me personally' as a representative 'Mr average tog'? I am happy with the user friendliness of Elements 7 and especially its associated RAW plug-in combination, which, on colour adjustments seems to be lifted from LR, and that the numeric numbering on the sliders is more intuitive for me.

It may be worth mentioning, the RAW plug-in, seems to operate at a totally different program to Elements . . . appearing very similar to LR.

CJS
 
CJS said:
Interesting . . . As I said at the beginning, 'LR is not user friendly to me'! Its a problem I am finding across the board these days . . . Digital this and that . . . those of us who were not brought up in this digital age suffer, remember when video recorders first came out, nightmare:gag:. Geeks who right the various programs and design product, seem not to understand, 'simple and user friendly', would go a long way to sell more product . . . Wadding through pages and pages of techno speak does not help? The word 'intuitive' comes to mind . . . occasionally it happens, only occasionally!!!

'Everything now has numbers' . . . is that in the upgrade?

£85 pounds is not cheap if you have to buy the original program first . . . at almost £250 for version '3'.

CJS
Click to expand...

Different needs for different markets.

Lightroom is geared towards "advanced amateur and professional photographers"; these expect to have certain features available to them so that they can make the necessary adjustments / edits. So, of course, Lightroom reflects those needs.

You essentially have two options - either you spend the time to learn Lightroom, which shouldn't take more than a couple of days. Or, you don't use it, and use what you already know.

If you have difficulty understanding the manuals, then perhaps watching the video tutorials already mention would help.

In in the grand scheme of things, £211 for a very capable easy-to-use image editing and cataloging program is not bad at all; considering the cost of camera and lenses that has already been put into the budget. And when you consider the cost of developing such a program you realise that £200 is not bad.

But then again; there are cheaper and simpler options out there.
 
CJS said:
Interesting . . . As I said at the beginning, 'LR is not user friendly to me'! Its a problem I am finding across the board these days . . . Digital this and that . . . those of us who were not brought up in this digital age suffer, remember when video recorders first came out, nightmare:gag:. Geeks who right the various programs and design product, seem not to understand, 'simple and user friendly', would go a long way to sell more product . . . Wadding through pages and pages of techno speak does not help? The word 'intuitive' comes to mind . . . occasionally it happens, only occasionally!!!

'Everything now has numbers' . . . is that in the upgrade?

£85 pounds is not cheap if you have to buy the original program first . . . at almost £250 for version '3'.

CJS
Click to expand...

I've posted you links to simple video tutorials. It's not anyones fault if you don't want to do the learning. Did you jump straight into a car and expect to drive it perfectly without any lessons?
 
CJS said:
I require nothing more than the simple stuff, although I use curves a lot.
Click to expand...

So why are you then trying to use, and complain about it, an image editing program geared towards the more advanced usage?
 
CJS said:
LR, as far as I can see, has no reference on the sliders simply 'up/down' arrows, so it is not easy to return to 'almost settings', the 'original setting' or have a mental note (number) to use as a reference?
Click to expand...

I'm going to hazard a guess here that your trying to work in Library rather than Develop mode.......
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I'm going to hazard a guess here that your trying to work in Library rather than Develop mode.......
Click to expand...

Yes that's what I was thinking. Not sure I've even looked at the quick develop mode in the Library!

To the OP
Switching to develop mode and you'll also see your curves there if you are happier editing with that.

As said above, you would not jump into a car and expect to drive right away! it does take some time investment to get the best out of anything - including elements!
 
EOS_JD said:
I thought all versions of Lr had numbers associated with the sliders?! I'm wondering if you are in the proper Develop Mode and not just quick develop.

Lr is a fantastic tool and like many others I rarely need t use Ps to get a finished file.
Click to expand...


:thumbs: . . . Jim and Graham :clap: you have cracket it . . . :bonk: I was in Quick Development mode.

'Development' took a bit of finding, but all is now sweetnes and light. Everything is there, its going to take a while to go through . . . I got it wrong . . . I'm moving on . . . :banana:

Sorry to have ruffle the feathers chaps, If only I had the manual . . . :rules: I will go through and see what I can sort out with 'click and try' ;) and have a go at the tutorials sugested . . . any other sugestions be apreciated :thumbs:

CJS
 
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Stick with it, Lightroom really is an excellent product, once you figure out what everything does it really is a doddle to work with :D
 
EOS_JD said:
I thought all versions of Lr had numbers associated with the sliders?....
Click to expand...

I know LR2 and LR3 have - plus you can click on the number and just type in a value and it adjusts the slider position, which is useful.


For me, the whole set-up of LR is all about having everything in one place, easily accessible with just a scroll of a trackpad or mouse. I've never used Elements' raw interface but can imagine it's not too far removed from the one in Photoshop. The one in PS was pretty good - intuitive, accurate, easily adjustable - but because it's only a small part of PS, it doesn't have the overall accessibility that LR's interface provides, which is why I've all but ditched PS as my main editor. It's only pixel-level adjustments (cloning, brushwork) where PS holds an advantage (IMO) over LR.


I know a few people have suggested LR tutorials and books that obviously help explain the program in the context of doing everyday tasks. For me, the LR seminars I attended at Focus 2010 were brilliant in explaining the functionality of the programme and expanding my knowledge of how to get more from the program. Take away the outputting functions and the library function, and yes, it's probably an expensive alternative to Elements but it is a whole package and as an archive, adjustment and output software, it's probably the best there is..... but as said, each to their own :)
 
CJS said:
:thumbs: . . . Jim and Graham :clap: you have cracket it . . . :bonk: I was in Quick Development mode.

'Development' took a bit of finding, but all is now sweetnes and light. Everything is there, its going to take a while to go through . . . I got it wrong . . . I'm moving on . . . :banana:

Sorry to have ruffle the feathers chaps, If only I had the manual . . . :rules: I will go through and see what I can sort out with 'click and try' ;) and have a go at the tutorials sugested . . . any other sugestions be apreciated :thumbs:

CJS
Click to expand...

Yes so difficult to spot :)


5333101050_172c826805.jpg
 
swanseamale47 said:
Yes so difficult to spot :)


5333101050_172c826805.jpg
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. . . It is if the heading is disabled by the tiny, almost invisible dark grey triangle . . . and one does not know there is more than one 'Develop' option? . . . hay ho . . . ;)

Had a quick look at some of the tutorials, I now understand why its is popular with some togs . . . :thumbs: The functionality looks good, 'intuitive operation' is obvious and I can see the library function is going to be useful, I'm not the tidiest person where filling pictures is concerned.

CJS
 
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Glad we were able to help you.

Now you can have fun creating slide shows, web galleries and printing too :)

i use the web gallery function a lot.
 
Must admit my first impression of LR was similar to the OP, did wonder what all the fuss was about but after reading a few tutorials and having a play with it, understanding what it's actually doing, I'd never be without it now.

Helped me seriously improve the standard of images :)
 
Lightroom & Photoshop have 2 different uses. I run LR2 (will soon upgrade to 3) and CS5 (upgraded from CS3, tried Elements but preferred the "proper" product).

LR is a digital darkroom and catalogue suite, Photoshop (be it CS or Elements) is an image manipulation package. Sure, there are a few places where they cross over, but the two have their own uses.


Steve
 
When you get stuck PRESS F1 - it's there to help!
 
I recently downloaded LR3 and Elements 9 on trial and was keen to upgrade from Elements 6.
I loved LR but there wasn't much that I could do with it that I couldn't already do with "6". I appreciate all the cataloguing/output options are fab if your dealing with 1000s of images but for an average dodler like me there seemed to be no advantage.
"9" ran much slower for me than "6" and didn't really do much else (you can download layer masks for free).

So, in the end I stuck with "6".
 
Just wanted to say CJS, that I am glad you posted this.

As a consequence, another 'old fogie' can use what I thought was an impossible to use prog but having read some of the comments on here, I am actually getting to like it.

It's complex but then thats why it costs a few bob.

Thanks all.
 
Not essential - LR can search on lots of things - date - camera - lens - aperture - oh yes, and keywords. It's brilliant!
 
Keywords are a big help - Although I do get lazy with that.
 
I downloaded a LR2 trial ages ago, fiddles for 5 minutes and couldnt figure it out, so never used it again.
Whilst browsing Youtube, I came accross some vids about LR3 and it looked pretty impressive, so I downloaded LR3 trial and using some online tutorials I have no realised how excelent LR3 is. I have Photoshop CS5 too, so it nothing to do with price.
LR has everything you need to make your photos as good as they can be, as long as there isnt any major cloning work to be done.

Not only that, but my hard drives were a mess, with photos all over the place and I couldnt find anything. Within 5 minutes, I'd imported all my photos off of 3 hard drives and collated them into their own dated folders. It took a while keywording them all (the paint tool is awesome for this!) and now I cand find any image I want in seconds.
Ive also exported my catalouge to 3 different hard drives as backups should anything happen to my main drive... Which co-incidently just has! 1 day after backing everything up, my main HD is starting to play up and crashing the PC.

I for one am a LR convert and have purchased the full version.
 
Don't forget about collections. You can make these multi level, so I have Family, then year then event. Another for Rugby, by season, by event etc etc.

You can then quickly find things any way you want, or select all in the library module and search by metadata, keyword etc. Or sometimes I want the raw file with an image number taken on a date and it's easy to find that in the folders view.

Really powerful tool.
 
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