Long exposure but with a moving boat....

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Name
Scott
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Morning All

I have been asked by a friend to take a photo of a local pier as he has just moved to the area and wants a huge print for his wall, I have been down to the location and I have planned out my composition and I think I can get a cracking LE shot with the sunset directly behind the pier, I have a small issue on that there is a local ferry that runs from the pier and its path runs right through my shot, he has asked me to include the ferry in my shot, am I right in saying that this is impossible if I'm doing a LE shot with an exp time of around 1 minute? Other than taking a shot of the ferry and Photoshopping it in to my LE which I don't think is photography I have no other ideas!!! Any help please??

S
 
…am I right in saying that this is impossible…


Yes you are…
and you have detected the problem correctly.

No, you're not…
maybe be you did not think of the magic box yet.
As the minute will past, make sure little or NO light
falls on the boat. After, do an other take using CTFs
on power guns to capture the boat alone.
 
Thanks Kodiak, what's a CTF? Would I then merg the two shots together?
 
Ok thanks Kodiak, I'm guessing the shot with the boat can't be a LE shot?
 
Wouldn't you have to get permission from the harbour master and the ferry captain before doing the flash exposure? I imagine that an unexpected bright flash would not be appreciated by someone navigating a public service vehicle.
 
I imagine that an unexpected bright flash would not be appreciated by someone navigating a public service vehicle.


Considering the distance the "victims" may be from the
guns, I think the inverse square law could take care of
possible discomfort without any inconvenience.
 
Wouldn't you have to get permission from the harbour master and the ferry captain before doing the flash exposure? I imagine that an unexpected bright flash would not be appreciated by someone navigating a public service vehicle.


I think you're overestimating the power of a flash somewhat.

am I right in saying that this is impossible if I'm doing a LE shot with an exp time of around 1 minute?


No, difficult and the results won't be what he expects (nessicarily) either do and arty drag shot as above or for a minute, expect just a ghost of the ferry
 
Thanks folks, I'm going to try and get the "arty" look or reduce me exp time down and hope for the captain to slow down [emoji23]
 
I think you're overestimating the power of a flash somewhat.

To illuminate a ferry at, say, a hundred metres, using ISO 800 and an aperture of f5.6 you'd need a guide number of 1500, if my arithmetic is correct. That's a very big flash! Obviously, this is more power than the OP is likely to have available but I was just thinking aloud that if he did have that and wanted to use it...

:whistle:
 
To illuminate a ferry at, say, a hundred metres, using ISO 800 and an aperture of f5.6 you'd need a guide number of 1500, if my arithmetic is correct. That's a very big flash! Obviously, this is more power than the OP is likely to have available but I was just thinking aloud that if he did have that and wanted to use it...

:whistle:


The last time I saw something like that it was hanging off a helicopter with"night sun" written on it
 
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To illuminate a ferry at, say, a hundred metres, using ISO 800 and an aperture of f5.6 you'd need a guide number of 1500, if my arithmetic is correct. That's a very big flash! Obviously, this is more power than the OP is likely to have available but I was just thinking aloud that if he did have that and wanted to use it...

:whistle:

It's probably illegal too, I think the same laws apply to flash, as they do to laser pointers where moving vehicles are concerned.
 
On the other hand you could do a short exposure. That would show the ferry, the bow wave, the wake, etc., In realistic detail.
 
Hopefully the ferry stops at either side of the stretch of water...
 
It's probably illegal too, I think the same laws apply to flash, as they do to laser pointers where moving vehicles are concerned.

What about speed cameras? They do a double flash in quick succession at moving vehicles.
 
It's probably illegal too, I think the same laws apply to flash, as they do to laser pointers where moving vehicles are concerned.

Stormy weather & lightning? I'm sure the captain would be able to cope. :cool:
 
What about speed cameras? They do a double flash in quick succession at moving vehicles.


From behind and not with a GN of 1500!
 
I think there's an element here of your artistic vision and desire not matching the customer or friend's requirement, and you're trying to shoe-horn the two together. You want a LE shot and they want a shot with the ferry. Take both (one long, one short), and see which your friend prefers. If they love the LE but still want the ferry, then add it using photoshop - who cares if it's 'photography' if it creates a piece of art your friend enjoys and wants?
 
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From behind and not with a GN of 1500!

But you get the flash in your mirrors and anything on the other side of the road heading towards the camera also sees the flashes. Relative difference in distance from the light source so probably just as bright as well.
 
If you were using a film camera, I would suggest a double exposure -- your normal LE, then ensuring no camera movement between shots, your short exposure when the Ferry comes by. Also, FWIW, many decades ago I used to do long distance night time flash photography. The setup there was to use a reasonably powerful flash and have mounted in front of it a Fresnel lens like those large 8x11" ones used to magnify reading pages. So you would position the Fresnel lens such as to converge the flash to the proper size at whatever distance you were shooting. Aim back then for that was to illuminate animals at night where a telephoto lens was used.
 
You can still do this with some digital cameras I think.

I guess many can...I didn't realize...Canon EOS 5D Mark III, 1D X, and 70D; most Nikon DSLRs; Fujifilm’s X-Pro1 and X100s; and the Olympus OM-D E-M5, and others can. I think most of us forget about this as are two used to stacking multiple images in Photoshop to do it. My digital camera does it (Fuji X-E1) but I've actually never tried it as too used to Photoshop for that. Will be interesting to give it a go. :)
 
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I guess many can...I didn't realize...Canon EOS 5D Mark III, 1D X, and 70D; most Nikon DSLRs; Fujifilm’s X-Pro1 and X100s; and the Olympus OM-D E-M5, and others can. I think most of us forget about this as are two used to stacking multiple images in Photoshop to do it. My digital camera does it (Fuji X-E1) but I've actually never tried it as too used to Photoshop for that. Will be interesting to give it a go. :)

As a photographer, I have never seen photoshop, let alone used it......it is a designers program, not a photograpeher's one! Surely it is better to create a multiple exposure in camera - my old RZ was brilliant for it, little lever specially to disengage the film to allow the shutter to cock without winding the film on. The D3 does the same thing but with a button instead of a lever.
 
I have done extensive manipulations in the darkroom with film and printing back in the day, I consider Photoshop and similar programs the digital equivalent of a darkroom. So manipulating the digital photo with software in my mind and experience is no different from adjusting chemical or times to manipulate the film, and then using various techniques at the enlarger to include doing double exposures that way (I preferred as more control than using the in-camera capability with my old and current film SLRs), to doing various manipulations with paper choices and choices in developing the paper, to doing post printing manipulations with the paper and retouching in various ways. It certainly was common back in the day to do manipulations of various sorts using films and papers in the darkroom (e.g., Ansel Adams), no different with digital -- it is just a different day and a different way. So in my mind both ways have their merits, manipulation within the camera or post camera manipulation manipulation in the darkroom or for digital with software, neither is purer that the other IMO. We have a set of tools, my take is best for me to develop the skills to use them all as the point for me is the final image and not how I got there.
 
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I have done extensive manipulations in the darkroom with film and printing back in the day, I consider Photoshop and similar programs the digital equivalent of a darkroom. So manipulating the digital photo with software in my mind and experience is no different from adjusting chemical or times to manipulate the film, and then using various techniques at the enlarger to include doing double exposures that way (I preferred as more control than using the in-camera capability with my old and current film SLRs), to doing various manipulations with paper choices and choices in developing the paper, to doing post printing manipulations with the paper and retouching in various ways. It certainly was common back in the day to do manipulations of various sorts using films and papers in the darkroom (e.g., Ansel Adams), no different with digital -- it is just a different day and a different way. So in my mind both ways have their merits, manipulation within the camera or post camera manipulation manipulation in the darkroom or for digital with software, neither is purer that the other IMO. We have a set of tools, my take is best for me to develop the skills to use them all as the point for me is the final image and not how I got there.


Paper? I was shooting E6 for drum repros....no developing fiddling for me, I had to get it right in camera. So, I was more limited, but then so was the final use.

Digital playing - you are talking to someone who can't send an email...I can reply to one if you send me one, but otherwise I haven't a clue how to do that. What chance have I got with all that jiggery pokery - and despite my best efforts, I cannot find anywhere that teaches you these things, not without expecting you to already be a PHD in computer science to start with.

If anyone knows of somewhere that teaches how to use a computer and mobile phone (another thing I can't work out) please, tell me how to get in touch with them.
 
Your local technical college will almost certainly have basic courses in CLAIT (or whatever the current name for that is!) and basic photoshopping. Google them!
 
Digital playing - you are talking to someone who can't send an email...I can reply to one if you send me one, but otherwise I haven't a clue how to do that. What chance have I got with all that jiggery pokery - and despite my best efforts, I cannot find anywhere that teaches you these things, not without expecting you to already be a PHD in computer science to start with.

Not an unusual circumstance. Computers are not as intuitive as mechanical devices. Your best bet IMO would be to have a friend come over and give you some desk-side instruction...or hire someone from the local computer store to come by and give you an in-home lesson. Local high school kids would probably jump at the opportunity to make a little cash teaching someone too, so maybe talk to the local school to have one of their star students come by. Some folks go to the extreme in using these digital editing packages and can do some very sophisticated manipulations. However, no need to get all that complex and many people find that just doing basics like adjusting brightness, contrast, color balance, color saturation, and cropping is plenty sufficient when the base photo is good to begin with.
 
Not an unusual circumstance. Computers are not as intuitive as mechanical devices. Your best bet IMO would be to have a friend come over and give you some desk-side instruction...or hire someone from the local computer store to come by and give you an in-home lesson. Local high school kids would probably jump at the opportunity to make a little cash teaching someone too, so maybe talk to the local school to have one of their star students come by. Some folks go to the extreme in using these digital editing packages and can do some very sophisticated manipulations. However, no need to get all that complex and many people find that just doing basics like adjusting brightness, contrast, color balance, color saturation, and cropping is plenty sufficient when the base photo is good to begin with.

I can do that bit - in the NX2 editing that came from Nikon - the more sophisticated stuff would send me round the twist. I have to be stopped from throwing the computer out of the window frequently as it is. :bat:

The school pupil idea - good in theory but not a chance. SAFEGUARDING issues
 
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