Long shutter speeds

alfbranch

alfbranch

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Alf
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Why do camera manufacturers limit shutter speeds to 30 seconds or in some cases 1 minute.

Especially with the increasing popularity of 10 stoppers and night photography.

My Olympus goes up to 1 minute but why not 30 minutes?
 
Thats what the Bulb setting is for Alf :D Oh and a wireless remote too

Les :thumbs:
 
Lez325 said:
Thats what the Bulb setting is for Alf :D Oh and a wireless remote too

Les :thumbs:
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I know that Les

But if I want a 4 minute exposure why do I have to time externally to the camera:thumbsdown:
 
exactly. why cant camera's do longer then 30seconds?

why must i pull out a sheet, workout the exposure i want, ISO and apprture and buy an external trigger to do this?

seems like a chore tbh
 
I guess because at what point do you stop, my long exposures can be any length but a set time in camera would be pointless to me, even if I expect an exposure to fall into one of the pre-set shutter speeds I still use bulb, what increments of time will you increase speed by 1 second, 5 seconds, 15 seconds a minute, it's going to take you and age to scroll to a 30 minute exposure

Bulb and a trigger is so much easier :lol:
 
jonneymendoza said:
exactly. why cant camera's do longer then 30seconds?

why must i pull out a sheet, workout the exposure i want, ISO and apprture and buy an external trigger to do this?

seems like a chore tbh
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You have to work out the exposure for any shot you take. :thinking: It's not hard to multiply by two a few times anyway.

MWHCVT said:
what increments of time will you increase speed by 1 second, 5 seconds, 15 seconds a minute,
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I imagine it would continue the same as the rest of the scale, in third, half or full stops.

As said, much easier to just use a remote though. It's often useful to be able to stop a long exposure sooner than intended, if the light or subject changes, you can't do that if it's a predetermined shutter speed.
 
MWHCVT said:
I guess because at what point do you stop, my long exposures can be any length but a set time in camera would be pointless to me, even if I expect an exposure to fall into one of the pre-set shutter speeds I still use bulb, what increments of time will you increase speed by 1 second, 5 seconds, 15 seconds a minute, it's going to take you and age to scroll to a 30 minute exposure

Bulb and a trigger is so much easier :lol:
Click to expand...

At these times, it is totally ridiculous not to offer such functionality. It's electronics, it is not like its limited to by some cog or a screw like it used to be. Wireless remote may be nice, but most days a camera button should do the job
 
MWHCVT said:
I guess because at what point do you stop, my long exposures can be any length but a set time in camera would be pointless to me, even if I expect an exposure to fall into one of the pre-set shutter speeds I still use bulb, what increments of time will you increase speed by 1 second, 5 seconds, 15 seconds a minute, it's going to take you and age to scroll to a 30 minute exposure

Bulb and a trigger is so much easier :lol:
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Umm you can always program it in camera. sheesh come on you dont have to scroll to everything and so what? its quicker to do so then buying a remote trigger, setting that up on your camera, getting pen and paper to work out the correct exposure manually. slower

Jayst84 said:
You have to work out the exposure for any shot you take. :thinking: It's not hard to multiply by two a few times anyway.
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No u dont. the camera works out the ISO and apparture when shooting in Tv mode to the correct exposer based on your shutter speed. much faster then working it out

daugirdas said:
At these times, it is totally ridiculous not to offer such functionality. It's electronics, it is not like its limited to by some cog or a screw like it used to be. Wireless remote may be nice, but most days a camera button should do the job
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Yup exactly. much easier if it was built in the camera
 
jonneymendoza said:
No u dont. the camera works out the ISO and apparture when shooting in Tv mode to the correct exposer based on your shutter speed. much faster then working it out
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Except for the very long exposures the cameras totally loses the plot and it's a manual gueswork
 
daugirdas said:
At these times, it is totally ridiculous not to offer such functionality. It's electronics, it is not like its limited to by some cog or a screw like it used to be. Wireless remote may be nice, but most days a camera button should do the job
Click to expand...

jonneymendoza said:
Umm you can always program it in camera. sheesh come on you dont have to scroll to everything and so what? its quicker to do so then buying a remote trigger, setting that up on your camera, getting pen and paper to work out the correct exposure manually. slower
Click to expand...

The problem however if you take the suggestions above about long exposures with say a 10 stopper, if the camera meters suggest say a 1m 45s exposure at the start of the exposure and the sun is setting you need to allow for the fall off in light and extend the exposure to allow for that hence why you need bulb and a trigger, relying on in camera would be practically impossible IMO and for the type of photography that I specalise in it would be completely useless, it's bulb all the way for what I do, other than stacked star trails where as a rule the cameras limit at 30 seconds is more than enough for what I need, I can think of only one occasion where I've programmed in a longer than 30 second continues drive exposure using one of my triggers for a star trail
 
jonneymendoza said:
Umm how does it lose the plot?
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give it a go. At night you will most likely get a severely underexposed shot in Av mode, even if proper exposure was possible within 30s. After 1-2s exposure times its better to go manual.

Part of the problem is called 'failure of reciprocity' and can be further greatly exaggerated by some small bright lights in the frame
 
daugirdas said:
give it a go. At night you will most likely get a severely underexposed shot in Av mode, even if proper exposure was possible within 30s. After 1-2s exposure times its better to go manual.

Part of the problem is called 'failure of reciprocity' and can be further greatly exaggerated by some small bright lights in the frame
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With film, yes, but I don't think you get reciprocity failure in digital.
 
jonneymendoza said:
No u dont. the camera works out the ISO and apparture when shooting in Tv mode to the correct exposer based on your shutter speed. much faster then working it out
Click to expand...

Well, you still have to work out if what the camera's meter is telling you, is what you want. As mentioned already, in very low light situations, chances are it's nowhere near what you want (nothing to do with reciprocity which isn't an issue with digital). Your meter probably isn't sensitive enough to work out what's going on half the time. You're also talking about using auto ISO, and letting the camera set your aperture at the same time. That's not going to fly with a long exposure (how would the camera know what you wanted?).

Also, as Matt says, you could very likely have changing conditions over a long exposure, so the initial 'correct' exposure wouldn't work out in the end anyway.

Long and the short of it, just buy a cheapy cable release and practice your mental arithmetic. :D
 
Jayst84 said:
Well, you still have to work out if what the camera's meter is telling you, is what you want. As mentioned already, in very low light situations, chances are it's nowhere near what you want (nothing to do with reciprocity which isn't an issue with digital). Your meter probably isn't sensitive enough to work out what's going on half the time. You're also talking about using auto ISO, and letting the camera set your aperture at the same time. That's not going to fly with a long exposure (how would the camera know what you wanted?).

Also, as Matt says, you could very likely have changing conditions over a long exposure, so the initial 'correct' exposure wouldn't work out in the end anyway.

Long and the short of it, just buy a cheapy cable release and practice your mental arithmetic. :D
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Exactly :thumbs: as an example I've had 10 stop photo's that the initial suggested exposure based on simple arithmetic would have been an exposure of 90 seconds but allowing for light fall off it's had to be more than triple that :eek: as you say the reality is when getting into long exposure photography, your really going to be moving away from auto anything :thumbs: except maybe auto focus but even that will have to be turned off for the actual exposure ;)
 
2 thoughts:

1) It's to protect the sensor - if you could set an exposure of 5 minutes "easily" i.e. by just setting Tv to 5' - you could set this on a sunny day and the camera would dutifully allow, even on small aperture and you could risk burning it up? 30" offers a slight safety buffer.

2) It's irritating enough when you take a photo on 30" without checking and can't interupt it without turning off (which might not be good for the camera), so having to wait for 5' because you forgot to check a setting would be a right PITA

I have no idea if this is the case though, just my 2p's worth :)
 
Durbs said:
2 thoughts:

1) It's to protect the sensor - if you could set an exposure of 5 minutes "easily" i.e. by just setting Tv to 5' - you could set this on a sunny day and the camera would dutifully allow, even on small aperture and you could risk burning it up? 30" offers a slight safety buffer.

2) It's irritating enough when you take a photo on 30" without checking and can't interupt it without turning off (which might not be good for the camera), so having to wait for 5' because you forgot to check a setting would be a right PITA

I have no idea if this is the case though, just my 2p's worth :)
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1) you can do 30 minute video which is exactly that

2) there is no sensible reason not to provide a stop or cancel function as well
 
There is a counter on the camera when in bulb mode. So no need to externally time it.

In low light situations, automatic metering just doesn't work. Try take a photo of the night sky, it'll use highest ISO and longest shutter speed to get as close to 18% grey as possible.

There is a T mode in modern cameras: IR remote. Touching the camera and pressing the shutter button moves the camera. Just use an IR remote, zero connections to faf about, just works with each press.

If all else fails, install Magic Lantern. :p
 
wuyanxu said:
There is a counter on the camera when in bulb mode. So no need to externally time it.

No need to time it, no, but perhaps it's nice to set 20min and walk away with worrying of overcooking... My remote does it, but wouldn't it be nice?..

There is a T mode in modern cameras: IR remote. Touching the camera and pressing the shutter button moves the camera. Just use an IR remote, zero connections to faf about, just works with each press.
Click to expand...

I believe only xxxD Canons have IR remote support... and it's flaky at best, and you need the external bit. What if you just took the camera and left the remote, or the battery died, or you don't want to expose the terminal to rain?

Movment of camera by pressing shutter is barely relevant. Over minutes of exposure 1 second will be nothing (whereas 1s exposure are very sensitive to this). Wind and sinking sand or mud can play a lot more havoc.
 
IIRC Magic Lantern allows very long exposures

Durbs said:
2) It's irritating enough when you take a photo on 30" without checking and can't interupt it without turning off (which might not be good for the camera), so having to wait for 5' because you forgot to check a setting would be a right PITA
Click to expand...
Something else that could easily be implemented in software.
 
daugirdas said:
I believe only xxxD Canons have IR remote support... and it's flaky at best, and you need the external bit. What if you just took the camera and left the remote, or the battery died, or you don't want to expose the terminal to rain?
Click to expand...

The remote is tiny, no reason not to be in your bag. the official ones have never failed me while my ebay £1 one are flaky at best. Not sure about terminal comment...... :shrug:

As I said, in those situations. Magic Lantern to the rescue :p
 
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