Looking For A Laptop

[Keith W]

I know I know, yet another laptop thread :razz:

Mrs Keith would like a new laptop to replace her ageing and defunct one.

Budget is a bit tight on this unfortunately with little movement around the £300 mark.

Ideally I would like something with the following specs or better

Core i3
3GB ram or more
250GB HD or more
Win7 OS

Is this achievable with my tight arse budget or around the £300 mark?

Any suggestions on what the best laptop to get would be based on those specs/budget?

She will only be using it for surfing the web, email and word processing - nothing to strenuous

Any help would be gratefully received

P.S Mrs Keith does not want a netbook

 

[arad85]

Ideally I would like something with the following specs or better

Core i3
3GB ram or more
250GB HD or more
Win7 OS

Is this achievable with my tight arse budget or around the £300 mark?

Any suggestions on what the best laptop to get would be based on those specs/budget?

You may be pushing it to get an i3 for that price, but they are all much of a muchness around that price point.
#
Have a look here: http://www.ebuyer.com/search?sort=pricelow&store=5&cat=10&filterca35=Intel+Core+i3&limit=10&page=1 for i3 based laptops. Start at around £350...

 

[RobertP]

keep it civil please.

I've deleted some posts that look like they happened through a light hearted comment taken wrong.

Take this as an opportunity to pretend it never happened.

 

[PhotoMonty]

Hi, I wrote a Newsletter article a couple of months ago, about buying a computer on a budget. It does warn you to avoid buying anything beginning with the letter "A" (Acer, Advent, Asus. But ignoring Apple and adding Packard Bell - owned by Acer).

You'll be struggling to get i3 processor for £300 - unless someone is selling off a 1st Generation i3 which had known problems.

http://goo.gl/LQybM

 

[arad85]

Hi, I wrote a Newsletter article a couple of months ago, about buying a computer on a budget. It does warn you to avoid buying anything beginning with the letter "A" (Acer, Advent, Asus. But ignoring Apple and adding Packard Bell - owned by Acer).

You'll be struggling to get i3 processor for £300 - unless someone is selling off a 1st Generation i3 which had known problems.

I've had several Acer laptops and they have been fine - cheap, but did what they said on the tin.

What known problems with first gen i3?

I disagree with your view on 32 vs 64 btw (it does matter if you're buying a laptop with significant memory in)....

 

[WillW]

Going to have to Agree with Andy.... I disagree with several points in your Newsletter.

(That sounded far more reluctant that it should have. )

 

[neil_g]

rofl... highly scientific "anything beginning with A" approach..

hey Andy begins with A maybe we should ignore him..........

 

[arad85]

hey Andy begins with A maybe we should ignore him..........

I'm used to it

 

[PhotoMonty]

The newsletter is written mainly for our Business clients, who will be buying business quality computers, rather than home user equipment. However, the main points hold good for all. The readers aren't expected to be computer experts, but to want quick concise advice. In that case it doesn't MATTER to them whether it is 32 or 64 bit, that simply confuses the issue for them. The newsletter does go on to say 64 Bit is generally better.

It used to be the case that you could Google "i3 processor" and you'd find any amount of forums discussing the issues they had. They were quickly replaced by the 2nd Generation, so the problems disappeared quite fast. There are likely to be some laptops around still using 1st Generation i3 though, but I would struggle to find an IT Professional who would recommend one at any price.

Avoiding anything beginning with "A" may not sound scientific, but it does work when you are talking to an audience who may buy from PC World, etc. Their high margins are made on Advents or Acers - because these are cheaper computers which they sell at a greater profit margin than some better computers. The likes of Dell and Toshiba are competing hard against these lesser computers, so they have to cut their margins to the bone.

A £400 Toshiba is a vastly superior machine to a £350 Acer, and worth much much more than the £50 price difference.

Taking the newsletter overall I'd say a normal, non-IT literate reader is likely to avoid a cheap Acer in favour of buying a £400, i3 2nd Generation, 15.6", 64 Bit Windows 7, Toshiba laptop. For a business user looking for a sensible compromise between price, performance, reliabilty and life-span this would be ideal.

 

[arad85]

In that case it doesn't MATTER to them whether it is 32 or 64 bit, that simply confuses the issue for them. The newsletter does go on to say 64 Bit is generally better.

It does matter if they need access to more than 3.2GBytes of memory....

It used to be the case that you could Google "i3 processor" and you'd find any amount of forums discussing the issues they had. They were quickly replaced by the 2nd Generation, so the problems disappeared quite fast.

Second gen i3's were released a year after the first gen (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core) and until your posting I'd not heard of ANY issues with i3 processors (why should there be, they are scaled down versions of the i5/i7)

There are likely to be some laptops around still using 1st Generation i3 though, but I would struggle to find an IT Professional who would recommend one at any price.

I'd like to see some empirical evidence for that assertion

 

[neil_g]

I'd like to see some empirical evidence for that assertion

agreed, no issues with the i3 kit we have in circulation

 

[daza]

Might be worth a look at the dell outlet seems to be some decent I3 models around, got a studio 1558 with an I7 thats never missed a beat regardless of what people say about them.

http://www.dell.com/uk/dfh/p/laptops?c=uk&l=en&s=dfh&cs=ukdfh1&redirect=1

 

[PhotoMonty]

It does matter if they need access to more than 3.2GBytes of memory....

Second gen i3's were released a year after the first gen (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core) and until your posting I'd not heard of ANY issues with i3 processors (why should there be, they are scaled down versions of the i5/i7)

I'd like to see some empirical evidence for that assertion

1. It remains the case that it doesn't matter to a business user who is simply looking for some quick, clear, concise advice whether a computer is described as 32 or 64 Bit. They won't understand the difference and they don't like the plethora of confusing information deliberately pushed by computer sales people. If they are a business user predominantly using Office type programmes it doesn't matter, as 3.2 GB of memory is sufficient. It matters to you as you are IT literate and understand whether or not you need more than 3.2 GB Memory, but the vast majority of people in the market for the lower cost laptops don't need that much memory.

2. i3 1st generation processors were known to produce many strange issues which were difficult to pin down. The only common denominator was the i3 processor, so it became generally accepted within the IT world that it was the processor that was suspect. Maybe this is different to "known issues" in the true sense of the phrase, in that the issues weren't specifcally known or documented. What was known is that there were issues. (Donald Rumsfeld is alive and well in this discussion!) In a competitive business such as IT sales one would avoid buying something with a suspect history as there were many alternatives.

3. Struggling to find an IT Professional who would reccommend i3 1st Generation is a suggestion, not an assertion. But I'd still struggle within the IT Pros that I personally know. I can ask them if they'd like to contribute to this discussion if you like :bang:

 

[WillW]

Actually, your newsletter is patronising and has a low quality of information in it. There is a difference between removing "jargon", and patronising your audience. "Don't buy a computer begining with A" is the latter.

In that case it doesn't MATTER to them whether it is 32 or 64 bit, that simply confuses the issue for them.

That depends entirely on what kind of business it is, and what the purposes of the computers will be. For several businesses (e.g. photography etc), it will matter.

Another example of dodgy advice:

"Don't buy a 17inch screen because they break more".

Why do they break more? The vast majority of the parts in the machine will be the same as on the 15inch equivalent, having a larger screen doesn't make the computer more likely to break.

As for your assertion that Toshiba's are better, well your company may sell Toshiba's and so you're more likely to plug them, but they also sell low end unreliable laptops, just like every other make. Some of the Satalite Pro's I've seen have been the most unreliable I've dealt with, whilst others never break - it's not as clear cut as you portray.

Likewise, I've not heard of any problems specific to 1st gen i3, and I would be hard pressed to find a professional who would agree with your claim.

 

[neil_g]

1. It remains the case that it doesn't matter to a business user who is simply looking for some quick, clear, concise advice whether a computer is described as 32 or 64 Bit. They won't understand the difference and they don't like the plethora of confusing information deliberately pushed by computer sales people. If they are a business user predominantly using Office type programmes it doesn't matter, as 3.2 GB of memory is sufficient. It matters to you as you are IT literate and understand whether or not you need more than 3.2 GB Memory, but the vast majority of people in the market for the lower cost laptops don't need that much memory.

2. i3 1st generation processors were known to produce many strange issues which were difficult to pin down. The only common denominator was the i3 processor, so it became generally accepted within the IT world that it was the processor that was suspect. Maybe this is different to "known issues" in the true sense of the phrase, in that the issues weren't specifcally known or documented. What was known is that there were issues. (Donald Rumsfeld is alive and well in this discussion!) In a competitive business such as IT sales one would avoid buying something with a suspect history as there were many alternatives.

3. Struggling to find an IT Professional who would reccommend i3 1st Generation is a suggestion, not an assertion. But I'd still struggle within the IT Pros that I personally know. I can ask them if they'd like to contribute to this discussion if you like :bang:

1) the end user may not care but the IT dept certainly will. however thats a moot point, as this isnt a business user. anyway 3.2gb isnt really sufficient when you start throwing large SQL backed spreadsheets into the mix.

2) ah so its not actually a known issue, just a hunch. again, no problems here and we must have at least 40 i3 boxes.

3) well, looks like you just found a couple that would suggest i3 or at least wouldnt recommend against them.

 

[arad85]

1. It remains the case that it doesn't matter to a business user who is simply looking for some quick, clear, concise advice whether a computer is described as 32 or 64 Bit.

But people here aren't business users. Yet you still link to the article and suggest the advice still holds.

2. i3 1st generation processors were known to produce many strange issues which were difficult to pin down.
...
3. Struggling to find an IT Professional who would reccommend i3 1st Generation is a suggestion, not an assertion. But I'd still struggle within the IT Pros that I personally know. I can ask them if they'd like to contribute to this discussion if you like :bang:

I shall be more precise next time. I meant that you had asserted there were problems with i3 machines

Here's an IT pro. who seems to not have a problem recommending i3's

agreed, no issues with the i3 kit we have in circulation

 

[neil_g]

As for your assertion that Toshiba's are better, well your company may sell Toshiba's and so you're more likely to plug them, but they also sell low end unreliable laptops, just like every other make. Some of the Satalite Pro's I've seen have been the most unreliable I've dealt with, whilst others never break - it's not as clear cut as you portray.

toshiba? really?


IMG_9150 by neilgates, on Flickr

IMG_9151 by neilgates, on Flickr

IMG_9156 by neilgates, on Flickr

but point is like anything, every brand has horror stories if you look hard enough.

 

[arad85]

1) the end user may not care but the IT dept certainly will. however thats a moot point, as this isnt a business user. anyway 3.2gb isnt really sufficient when you start throwing large SQL backed spreadsheets into the mix.

2) ah so its not actually a known issue, just a hunch. again, no problems here and we must have at least 40 i3 boxes.

3) well, looks like you just found a couple that would suggest i3 or at least wouldnt recommend against them.

Damn you and your quicker than me typing

 

[neil_g]

Here's an IT pro.

where? oh me..

 

[WillW]

toshiba? really?

I don't like them, hate the cheap things.

 

[neil_g]

I don't like them, hate the cheap things.

wasnt the best laptop.. replaced it for the OH with a dell studio, with you guessed it, i3. guess what, no problems there either (thank god, anything for a peaceful life)

 

[WillW]

I wish I had your luck with laptops....

 

[neil_g]

dell, its the way forward

(that and theyre set up and maintained by experts... )

 

[WillW]

I've yet to have a Dell that hasn't needed to be repaired every couple of months.... (Why do I keep buying them?)

They have great business support though.

 

[neil_g]

which models? the latitudes are good if you can stetch to the money..

ive got a brand new latitude e6420 sat on my desk for a new starter, its pretty nice. mag chassis, i5-2520M, 4gb ddr3, 250gb (only a 5400k in this one), bluetooth, optional mobile internet, optional fingerprint security, optional USB3. no idea how much it cost mind..

 

[arad85]

So, the advice is to avoid all laptops beginning with A (apart from Apple), Dell, Packard Bell, Toshiba, Fujitsu-Siemens (I had a problem with one of their machines).

Have I missed any that are on peoples avoid list?

 

[WillW]

My XPS M1330 was replaced to a M15x, which while having less problems has still had a few. Alienware are not my favourite range, but not going to argue with free computers...

The original XPS had a design flaw causing overheating, used to work fine for 1-2months before needing Mobo and heatsink replacements, I think the DVD drive and keyboard was also replaced at least once. It got sent off to Dell at one point to try and fix the overheating problem once and for all, and came back with more parts broken than working.

My Alienware has had a few issues, including the backlight/screen breaking and needing replacing, DVD drive breaking, and the Motherboard needed replacing after some Dell software corrupted the FX controller for the flashy lights on it. When it arrived originally out of the box the touchpad was broken and needed replacing.

I would say in total I've been an expensive customer for Dell

Have I missed any that are on peoples avoid list?

A family macbook didn't survive being run over once, so I would avoid Apple as well.

 

[PhotoMonty]

...
Mrs Keith would like a new laptop to replace her ageing and defunct one.
...
She will only be using it for surfing the web, email and word processing - nothing to strenuous

The poster is clearly not in need of in excess of 3 GB memory (he doesn't actually need more than 2 GB), so 32 Bit is good. 64 Bit wouldn't do any harm, but why confuse the issue when it doesn't matter?

Many commentators here are saying there's nothing wrong with their i3 kit, with none of them saying the kit in question is i3 1st Generation. (Many Lada cars used to be sold. There was a larger percentage with issues than other makes, so they got a bad reputation. It is the same scenario with i3 1st Gen. There isn't a specific issue, but there is, or was, a groundswell of opinion against them. Why take the risk?)

The advice in our newsletter was absolutely ideal for this user (and most other users who don't work their computers too hard). At his budget he isn't going to get, or expect, an all-singing, all-dancing laptop. It's not what he needs either. But it remains the case that Acer, Advent and Asus are cheaply made and perform poorly over time, compared to better makes within a similar price range.

17" screens do cause more issues than smaller screens. Ask any laptop repair shop. Many more 15" screens are sold, but the overall percentage of issues is greater with the larger screens and they cost much more to repair or replace.

 

[neil_g]

The poster is clearly not in need of in excess of 3 GB memory (he doesn't actually need more than 2 GB), so 32 Bit is good. 64 Bit wouldn't do any harm, but why confuse the issue when it doesn't matter?

depends if you like paging to the hard drive i guess.. :shrug:

Many commentators here are saying there's nothing wrong with their i3 kit, with none of them saying the kit in question is i3 1st Generation. (Many Lada cars used to be sold. There was a larger percentage with issues than other makes, so they got a bad reputation. It is the same scenario with i3 1st Gen. There isn't a specific issue, but there is, or was, a groundswell of opinion against them. Why take the risk?)

i believe theyre all 1st gen, we havent bought kit for some time.

17" screens do cause more issues than smaller screens. Ask any laptop repair shop. Many more 15" screens are sold, but the overall percentage of issues is greater with the larger screens and they cost much more to repair or replace.

ive seen no pattern to collaborate im afraid, most of our 15" have been replaced under H&S and workstation assessments. havent had a screen failure for donkeys.

edit - ah laptop screens.. we dont have anything larger than 15" in that case. not for reliability, just for cost and most users have docks with 17/19"+ screens.

 

[arad85]

A family macbook didn't survive being run over once, so I would avoid Apple as well.

17" screens do cause more issues than smaller screens. Ask any laptop repair shop. Many more 15" screens are sold, but the overall percentage of issues is greater with the larger screens and they cost much more to repair or replace.

OK.... so, the advice is to avoid all laptops beginning with A (including Apple as they can't survive being run over), Dell, Packard Bell, Toshiba and Fujitsu-Siemens. Also avoid 17" screens as they cause more issues proportionally than 15" screens.

Any others to add to the list?

PS. I'd like to see some links showing something was amiss with the i3.

 

[Keith W]

The poster is clearly not in need of in excess of 3 GB memory (he doesn't actually need more than 2 GB), so 32 Bit is good. 64 Bit wouldn't do any harm, but why confuse the issue when it doesn't matter?

Many commentators here are saying there's nothing wrong with their i3 kit, with none of them saying the kit in question is i3 1st Generation. (Many Lada cars used to be sold. There was a larger percentage with issues than other makes, so they got a bad reputation. It is the same scenario with i3 1st Gen. There isn't a specific issue, but there is, or was, a groundswell of opinion against them. Why take the risk?)

The advice in our newsletter was absolutely ideal for this user (and most other users who don't work their computers too hard). At his budget he isn't going to get, or expect, an all-singing, all-dancing laptop. It's not what he needs either. But it remains the case that Acer, Advent and Asus are cheaply made and perform poorly over time, compared to better makes within a similar price range.

17" screens do cause more issues than smaller screens. Ask any laptop repair shop. Many more 15" screens are sold, but the overall percentage of issues is greater with the larger screens and they cost much more to repair or replace.

Oi fella!

You can stop right there with that patronising attitude, it doesn't wash with me.

My Mrs may not be up to speed on the latest and greatest but I am and there in lies the difference

I am also an IT guy myself funny enough and was simply asking here because I know there are a number of other IT guys, like Neil and Andy, who's opinion I value and who may have been in the know where I could pick up a good spec lappy at a reasonable price.

Your advice has not only been patronising but also wrong and way off the mark.

My suggestion to you is do not respond any more to my thread because I do not want, nor do I value, you opinion.

 

[PhotoMonty]

Oi fella!

You can stop right there with that patronising attitude, it doesn't wash with me.

My Mrs may not be up to speed on the latest and greatest but I am and there in lies the difference

I am also an IT guy myself funny enough and was simply asking here because I know there are a number of other IT guys, like Neil and Andy, who's opinion I value and who may have been in the know where I could pick up a good spec lappy at a reasonable price.

Your advice has not only been patronising but also wrong and way off the mark.

My suggestion to you is do not respond any more to my thread because I do not want, nor do I value, you opinion.

That's rather unnecessarily aggressive Keith. As your original post said,
"Any help would be gratefully received"

Any help? I freely gave a few opinions, none of them patronising to a non-IT literate buyer.

I have a broad wealth of experience of computers and the computer market to call on. I'm not forcing you to pay for that knowledge or even to accept it.

Nowhere in your post or Profile does it suggest you are IT literate. Indeed your post makes it clear that you want help. I was simply offering my help - which you could choose to ignore if you felt it was less helpful than you'd hoped.

As an early post in this thread had to make clear - "Keep it civil". These are public forums which you have requested help from :rules: and I've offered my help.

Andy uses the Forum to promote eBuyer. They are cheap, that's for sure, and that's what many people want. I was offering some further advice on the type of good value laptop to buy and the type to avoid IN MY OPINION. Good value is different to cheap.

But, at the end of the day, it's simply my opinion. It's your money and up to you to take the broad range of advice you received and to choose where to spend how much money you wish.

By other posters mocking my contributions, to make themselves appear knowledgeable and clever, they are reducing the input on the forums to the detriment of the range of advice posters will receive.

I'd suggest - in as unpatronising a way as possible - that you send Private Messages to Neil and Andy if theirs are the only opinions you wish to canvas. Or say so in the post. Otherwise the point of a Public Forum is lost.

 

[neil_g]

oh dear handbags at dawn...

point 1 i'll make - andy does not "promote" ebuyer, he simply recommends them based on experience and price. same way i recommend scan based on service ive had from them. the term promoting implies some affiliation with the company which is not the case with andy and ebuyer.

another point, no one is mocking anyone. pointing out that information supplied has no proven evidence i think is reasonable. im not doing it for gain (i and others spend a LOT of time in here offering advice FOR FREE i might add) and certainly not to make myself look good. however if you offer up a bit of information that isnt technically accurate or unfounded then it'll get shot down.

 

[PhotoMonty]

however if you offer up a bit of information that isnt technically accurate or unfounded then it'll get shot down.

1. Avoiding computers whose names begin with the letter "A" is well founded advice to a non-IT literate buyer. Acer, Asus, Advent are all at the cheap end of the market, built with cheap components. That their names all start with the letter "A" is a simple way to remember this.

2. Other makes are forced to compete on price because we all think we want cheap electronics. What we actually want is good value electronics. Big difference. Dell, Toshiba, HP etc, have started making cheaper computers with less good quality components because of this, but they are still superior to Acer, Advent, Asus, Packard Bell.

3. Sneering at other posters is often seen on Public Forums. This devalues the Forum and removes large sections of people who have valid opinions. You end up with a small clique of self-congratulatory back-slappers who self-strengthen their own narrow field of opinions to their own detriment.

4. Read Andy's posts and you'll see that eBuyer gets an awful lot of mentions. That's promotion, whether he makes anything from it or not. I don't have a problem with that. It's his opinion.

 

[neil_g]

everyone has a cheap end of the market, your sweeping statement ignores the likes of the asus macbook killer.

sneering? no. responding to a statement with more holes than a swiss cheese factory? yes.

promoting suggests doing so for gain. i still see it more as recommending.

 

[Samphire]

Keith, acer maybe the way forward for Mrs Keith, mine does what it says on the box. Have you considered a refurbished as well. Might get higher spec within your price range, when I was looking to buy a friend one there were some good refurbs with full guarantee.

 

[arad85]

Andy recommends ebuyer as he has spent lots of money (I worked out it was over £6000 of my own money since 2003 the other day) with them over the years and had a good experience. They do a variety of different makes so provide a wider choice. They are cheap, but they provide the same components as anyone else. They are cheap as they have high volume sales, not generally because the products are inferior or B grade.

I've bought 4 laptops from them and they've been OK. I currently have a fairly top-end Dell, but that was a different choice as I wanted a decent processor in it with a 1080p screen and the dell was the best value for money there.

As I mentioned in my first post, at £300, laptops are much of a muchness. Also as suggested by Samphire, refurbs are probably a good way to go too.