Beginner Making the Jump

Jose Ferreira

Jose Ferreira

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José
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Hello all!

I am after a bit of guidance and advice please.

I have been "playing around" with photography for the last 18 months almost. When I bought my camera it was intended to be a hobby but I have been well and truly sucked in.
I decided quite early on last year that I wanted to tray and make a living from this amazing hobby.
I am now currently doing a level 3 in Photography with the hope I can one day earn a living from photography. We are doing a Studio unit at the moment which I'm enjoying more than I thought I would.

I currently work as a sign maker/designer which I've been doing for the past 10 years.

My interests are motorsport/automotive or sport photography in general and also food photography. Although I haven't had a chance to practice either much, especially motorsport. I don't mind wedding photography that much either. Although I understand it can be quite a headache.

My question is how do I get started? Where do I get the real life experience? How do I make the jump from sign maker to professional photographer?
Should I put my name out to other photographers out there/ on here to tag along as a second shooter or even just to watch and learn? Should I join clubs? I really don't know where to start and a little push in the right direction would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
 
Thanks for your response Simon, however finding customers isn't my concern. It's having the confidence to go out, take the photos and feel comfortable charging for them.
I am staying in my job for the foreseeable. Financially I can't just give up my job. I want to build the photography around what I'm doing now and look to take it further as it grows. I should've probably mentioned that in my original post - apologies.
 
You'll only get confidence from getting a customer and charging them for your work and seeing them happy with it. More you do, more confident you become.

I've met some outstanding photographers who have very little confidence in charging for their work.

I have good business experience, but a total noob at taking photos.
 
Jose,
In my humble opinion, I think you need to start making contacts in the fields you have mentioned. What I would do is go to one of the professionals, the 'Official Photographer' and ask some penetrating questions, such as, "This is what I can do, this is what I want to do. What in your opinion do I need to do to achieve that aim"?

I would ask the same question of several professionals and go with the consensus. At least then you will know in what direction to go.
 
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Not sure I totally agree with Simon on this one...
Photography is a very hard to make an income out of; following the herd is unlikely to generate an income you can live off.
Asking photographers at the events you are contemplating could be unproductive as you are essentially asking them to help you become their competitor.

If you are serious about making this a viable business, then treat it as a business.
You will need to find a niche in the market for which customers are willing to pay, then plan how to get access to take the images and how best to market them to those customers.
Photography is a by-product of the business.

Luck and timing has a lot to do with it too, but working out your market and USPs will be more likely to result in success.
At the events you are interested in, see if you can work out whether the photographers are making sufficient income from their photography to live off, or are relying on additional income. If you can understand their business models, then you may be able to find a slightly different approach that will work better - in other words, find a niche and exploit it :)

On the other hand, if you are only looking to keep this as a paid hobby then you will have a lot more scope as the business model doesn't really matter!
 
There are a lot of professional photographers who will jealously guard their jobs, that's why I said speak to several professionals. There are some out there who are willing to help somebody with the mallum to get off their arses and get on in life.

Certainly somebody in the teaching field will be only too pleased to help.
 
Everyone is a photographer since digital came along.
Read this (Link bellow) then the best thing you can do is go and get a proper job,like Rockwell say's "you get paid for turning up". Then keep photography as a hobby. There are too many people all wanting to photograph F1 and Premiership football with there newly aquired digital camer.Bring back film and see if they are so keen.LOL
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/go-pro.htm
 
shapeshifter said:
Everyone is a photographer since digital came along.
Read this (Link bellow) then the best thing you can do is go and get a proper job,like Rockwell say's "you get paid for turning up". Then keep photography as a hobby. There are too many people all wanting to photograph F1 and Premiership football with there newly aquired digital camer.Bring back film and see if they are so keen.LOL
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/go-pro.htm
Click to expand...

Are you seriously saying that he shouldn't bother even thinking about trying to go professional because loads of people now have digital cameras and because Ken Rockwell says so?
 
danny_bhoy said:
Are you seriously saying that he shouldn't bother even thinking about trying to go professional because loads of people now have digital cameras and because Ken Rockwell says so?
Click to expand...
Me again...
That's a very thought provoking article; Perceived wisdom is that everything Ken Rockwell writes needs taking with a pinch of salt, but I'd be fascinated to where you take issue with it.

As well as the negatives, he also gives examples where marketing, sales and finding a niche will work.
It's not all doom and gloom, but he does highlight that to get your main income from photography you need to be a businessman first - which I believe is just about spot-on.
 
I'm very much in the KRIFOC camp but can't find fault with that particular article.

There's a saying that it's easy to make a small fortune in motorsport and it probably holds true in photography (as a business) these days - start off with a large fortune and watch it shrink. Yes, there are a few people who have made a lot of money in the field but it's a small few.
 
Interesting article by Ken :D

I retired at 49 with more money than I'll ever spend. Photography is just my hobby :D I made money doing other things.
 
danny_bhoy said:
Are you seriously saying that he shouldn't bother even thinking about trying to go professional because loads of people now have digital cameras and because Ken Rockwell says so?
Click to expand...

This is what I am saying. In fact I have written it down.Take Care.

Everyone is a photographer since digital came along.
Read this (Link bellow) then the best thing you can do is go and get a proper job,like Rockwell say's "you get paid for turning up". Then keep photography as a hobby. There are too many people all wanting to photograph F1 and Premiership football with there newly aquired digital camer.Bring back film and see if they are so keen.LOL
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/go-pro.htm
 
shapeshifter said:
This is what I am saying. In fact I have written it down.Take Care.

Everyone is a photographer since digital came along.
Read this (Link bellow) then the best thing you can do is go and get a proper job,like Rockwell say's "you get paid for turning up". Then keep photography as a hobby. There are too many people all wanting to photograph F1 and Premiership football with there newly aquired digital camer.Bring back film and see if they are so keen.LOL
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/go-pro.htm
Click to expand...
Ironically KR is making a great living from photography.

There's only one thing to learn from his site, and that is he's a knob who will write anything to gather clicks. In his world clicks earn dollars.
 
Jose Ferreira said:
Hello all!

I am after a bit of guidance and advice please.

I have been "playing around" with photography for the last 18 months almost. When I bought my camera it was intended to be a hobby but I have been well and truly sucked in.
I decided quite early on last year that I wanted to tray and make a living from this amazing hobby.
I am now currently doing a level 3 in Photography with the hope I can one day earn a living from photography. We are doing a Studio unit at the moment which I'm enjoying more than I thought I would.

I currently work as a sign maker/designer which I've been doing for the past 10 years.

My interests are motorsport/automotive or sport photography in general and also food photography. Although I haven't had a chance to practice either much, especially motorsport. I don't mind wedding photography that much either. Although I understand it can be quite a headache.

My question is how do I get started? Where do I get the real life experience? How do I make the jump from sign maker to professional photographer?
Should I put my name out to other photographers out there/ on here to tag along as a second shooter or even just to watch and learn? Should I join clubs? I really don't know where to start and a little push in the right direction would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Whilst anyone has a perfect right to try to make it a career, how's this sound:

I've been playing football now for 18 months, I don't really know how good I am or what I need to do to get better, but I'm really passionate and would love to do it professionally!

In my hometown, like most medium sized English towns, the local economy can support about 20 full time professional footballers, with another dozen semi-pro's, and about twice that number for Rugby (we have 2 disciplines of that). There's also a couple of pop stars, a handful of actors, and a famous TV presenter.

But there's only about a dozen full time pro photographers, maybe 50 serious part timers.

Why do people think people who want to be pro sportsmen or singers are 'just dreamers', but that anyone who's 'passionate' could be a pro photographer.

I'm not saying you can't, or even 'don't try', I'm saying it's a business, you have to find a market and work to satisfy it. You will almost certainly fail if you think it's just about taking pictures.
 
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I think you're overcomplicating things Jose.

I asked a similar question on here a few months ago and received a mix of really helpful, friendly advice, and some that seemed very "territorial" as though I had no right to ask, and if I was serious, I should already "know" the answers to the questions I was asking.

First things first - if you're not comfortable shooting for money, then don't. I strongly disagree with Simons advice of "go get some customers". I'm in a similar position where I'm experimenting with my photography to see what I might want to do over the long term - weddings, portraits, commercial, editorial etc etc. If I was asked tomorrow to shoot for a client and charge money, I'd probably politely decline - unless it was something relatively straight forward and I was sure I could deliver.

If it's of interest, this is what I am doing:

Building a brand - I've got a website which I'm working on with Squarespace, I have a logo and business email address. None of it is "live", i'm just chipping away at it when I get time.

Learning - I don't mean watching Youtube videos, because although helpful, nothing is like a real shoot. It looks easy, but in practice, it's bloody difficult! This week I'm doing a week of workshops with commercial and editorial photographer, Zack Arias and a wedding photography workshop with Ryan Brenizer.

Build your portfolio - Shoot, shoot shoot, keep the best stuff and bin the rest. You only want 20-30 of your very best shots.

One word of warning though, and others might disagree with this, but if I went to a website of an automotive photographer and seen photos of food, I'd look elsewhere. My current plan is to have two separate websites, one for commercial/editorial and one for weddings/family portraits. This is just a short term measure until I decide what I want to focus on long-term, but you might want to consider it too.

I decided about a year ago that I wanted to be a full time photographer. The only thing that was stopping me was myself (ability) and money. So I spent a year saving, buying some gear, practicing etc. Next month I leave my job and I have enough money to not make a net profit for about a year. My business licence will last a year too, so basically either in 12 months I'll be a full time professional able to make a living from photography, or I'll be back looking for a normal job working for the man!

Good luck with it Jose Ferreira
 
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It is still possible to make a good living from photography - that does not mean it's easy. And yes, there are still many pros out there willing to help newcomers, even if they'll become the competition. Look for people whose work you admire and start making contacts.
 
Well have to say that's some mix of answers. Again appreciate all the points and they have certainly made me rethink things a bit.
I think it's fair to say my first step is to practice and keep practicing. I know I'm a long way off being a pro.

I have read a couple of interesting articles recently, one in fact was an interview with Martin Schoeller who I am researching for a college project. He was asked what he likes to shoot in his spare time. His answer in short, was that he doesn't. Shooting in his spare time felt like he was working so he didn't really do it anymore.
That did get me thinking quite a bit too and begs the question, Does anyone shoot one thing for their business, like weddings etc and then keep other subjects as a hobby?
 
Jose Ferreira said:
?..
That did get me thinking quite a bit too and begs the question, Does anyone shoot one thing for their business, like weddings etc and then keep other subjects as a hobby?
Click to expand...
It's the problem with listening to one persons view.

There are a lot of pro's who don't have time to shoot for themselves, some who don't want to, some who feel that it's essential to maintain their mojo and some who think it's a great diversion.
On any forum it's an annual(ish) thread in the business sections.

The business section is the best place for business advice (you're asking for a hard time asking business questions in the beginner section).
There's also less pros who'll see your post in beginners. Some see the business section as scary, it's really not, but it's often blunt, more often though it's much more useful and amusing than any other section.
 
Phil V said:
It's the problem with listening to one persons view.

There are a lot of pro's who don't have time to shoot for themselves, some who don't want to, some who feel that it's essential to maintain their mojo and some who think it's a great diversion.
On any forum it's an annual(ish) thread in the business sections.

The business section is the best place for business advice (you're asking for a hard time asking business questions in the beginner section).
There's also less pros who'll see your post in beginners. Some see the business section as scary, it's really not, but it's often blunt, more often though it's much more useful and amusing than any other section.
Click to expand...

Thanks Phil. I will have a look in the business section too.
 
Phil V said:
The business section is the best place for business advice (you're asking for a hard time asking business questions in the beginner section).
There's also less pros who'll see your post in beginners.
Click to expand...

Very True...

Phil V said:
Some see the business section as scary, it's really not, but it's often blunt, more often though it's much more useful and amusing than any other section.
Click to expand...

Again True - and I will add, some of the replys will be EXTREMELY blunt, especially if you're questions are a bit "non-specific" - if you wander in there and ask for information on "everything I need to become a pro" you'll get a mauling. If however, you go in, ask questions that show you've done your own research, got a decent idea of what you want to do, and want some more advice from people who've "been there, done that" you'll definitely get it...

But, be prepared, often the best bit of advice in business is "you're not ready to make this into a business yet..."
 
Just a thought, a few years ago a friend decided to set up a landscape gardening business with no experience except having done a course. She made the step by initially doing people's gardens for donations to charity, this seemed to work pretty well and built her portfolio and experience while the customers felt good about the deal and the word-of-mouth meant she soon had more work than she could handle.

There are plenty of local charities, etc. May be some of them would appreciate photos for their promo material?
 
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