manual focus, how on earth do you nail it?

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joescrivens

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I know some people on here manually focus their subjects.

Now in live view with a still subject at 10x magnification, I can do this!

But how would you manually focus say 50mm at 1.4 a portrait through the viewfinder and know that you have got the eyeball sharp and not the eyelash instead?
 
It was much easier with film SLRs because they had screens that popped in and out of focus - screens on today's DSLRs are not designed for manual focussing. On Nikons there is a little green dot that shows when you are in focus - but whether you have it on the right spot - that's down to practice. personally I'd rather let the camera do the work - why make life hard/
 
I think the red focus square lights up when you hit the focus point. Otherwise, probably experience?
 
I did find manual focus a lot easier on my New F-1 bodies than I do now on my 5DII. That may be down to my eyesight deteriorating, lack of practice these days, the different style of focussing screen or a combination of all three. I used to photograph a lot of sport in manual focus and my hit rate was great, predicting where a subject would move to at the point of shutter release and not something I can do now. I mainly use manual focus now for macro and landscape work and as you mention, the occasional portrait. I've changed the focussing screen to the Eg-S that is supposed to improve manual focussing but to be honest I haven't noticed any difference. As mentioned above the focussing point does illuminate when focus is achieved but you need to switch the lens to manual focus and then activate the AF-ON button (you posted elsewhere that you use AF-ON).
 
OneTen said:
As mentioned above the focussing point does illuminate when focus is achieved but you need to switch the lens to manual focus and then activate the AF-ON button (you posted elsewhere that you use AF-ON).
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hmmm, so it does. ermm.. whats the point in that?

I thought manual focus was about you deciding when something was in focus, if you wait for the beep aren't you just doing autofocus anyway? You're letting the camera tell you that it's in focus

perhaps i'm just not getting manual focus at all
 
It shows you when that point is in focus, whether that is useful to you is up to you :D
 
so do people that do manual focus through the viewfinder usually use that or is that just something you CAN use?

Just wondering how using that method is any different to leaving it in auto and pressing the af on.
 
Joe, a little trick Ste Manns showed me is to set your camera to high speed shooting mode and kinda turn the focus ring slightly both ways whilst shooting a burst. One of them will probably hit the exact spot you need.
 
It's just something you can use. On a 35mm film camera the focussing screen was made of ground glass (in most cases) and this made focussing manually a lot easier, as true focus was much easier to see in the viewfinder. On modern digital cameras the focussing screen tends to be a thin piece of plastic and manually focussing just from what you see isn't as easy. I prefer to focus from the screen and not use the illuminating point.
 
Well, you can get different focusing screens, such as:

the Ee-S Super Precision focusing screen is designed to facilitate manual focusing with high-speed lenses (f/2.8 or faster). The Ee-S screen has finer microlenses than the Ee-A or Ee-D options, along with a steeper parabola of focus to make the image pop in and out of focus more vividly in the viewfinder; however, the Ee-S focusing screen is not recommended for slower lenses because it's not very bright

Or you could read your manual.

In mine it says,

If you press the shutter button halfway during manual focusing, the active AF point and the focus confirmation light in the viewfinder will light when focus is achieved.
 
OneTen said:
I did find manual focus a lot easier on my New F-1 bodies than I do now on my 5DII. That may be down to my eyesight deteriorating, lack of practice these days, the different style of focussing screen or a combination of all three. I used to photograph a lot of sport in manual focus and my hit rate was great, predicting where a subject would move to at the point of shutter release and not something I can do now. I mainly use manual focus now for macro and landscape work and as you mention, the occasional portrait. I've changed the focussing screen to the Eg-S that is supposed to improve manual focussing but to be honest I haven't noticed any difference. As mentioned above the focussing point does illuminate when focus is achieved but you need to switch the lens to manual focus and then activate the AF-ON button (you posted elsewhere that you use AF-ON).
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It took me ages to start using manual focus on the DSLR, but like you Richard, I now use it for portraits, landscape and macro work. I may have a very "dodgy" lens, but I find my current long zoom (Tamron 70-300), seems to move in and out of focus a few times before it settles, and this cost me a few good shots this year.
 
Byker28i said:
Well, you can get different focusing screens, such as:

the Ee-S Super Precision focusing screen is designed to facilitate manual focusing with high-speed lenses (f/2.8 or faster). The Ee-S screen has finer microlenses than the Ee-A or Ee-D options, along with a steeper parabola of focus to make the image pop in and out of focus more vividly in the viewfinder; however, the Ee-S focusing screen is not recommended for slower lenses because it's not very bright

Or you could read your manual.

In mine it says,

If you press the shutter button halfway during manual focusing, the active AF point and the focus confirmation light in the viewfinder will light when focus is achieved.
Click to expand...

patronizing much?

I still don't see how waiting for the light to beep is any different from leaving it on auto focus -you are still relying on the camera to tell you when it is in focus .... so what's the difference?
 
AF confirmation helps some. Personally, I've just got used to manual focusing and prefer it. Installing an EE-S screen in my 5D has helped to. This allows you to see depth of field in the viewfinder for lenses faster than f2.8. It's amazing seeing the bokeh in the viewfinder :)
 
The23rdman said:
Joe, a little trick Ste Manns showed me is to set your camera to high speed shooting mode and kinda turn the focus ring slightly both ways whilst shooting a burst. One of them will probably hit the exact spot you need.
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thats a good trick! although my 5d doesn't have the same high speed modes that my 7d used to
 
joescrivens said:
I'm talking about when you manually focus, not auto focus
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So was I. When you manual focus it still shows you when you've hit the focus point. I'm not sure if it still works on lenses that are full-time manual focus but if it does then it would allow you to pick up some cracking manual focus only lenses at hardly any cost compared to modern auto-focus lenses.
 
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All my lenses are manual focus at the moment. I use the rangefinder on my D60 (not the same system as the focus confirmtion but I find the two agree about 99% of the time, but in the dark the range finder is brillant. I also have installed a Katzeye split prism, I would strongly recomend one even if you use autofoucs.

I also found that my cameras veiw finder was mis-calabrated so that what was appearing in foucs on the veiwfinder will be out of foucs on the sensor! If that is the case then you don't have a hope of getting a sharp shot other than through sheer luck!

Its not to difficult to re-tune the camera with a katzeye, a fast lens, an allen key and a spare couple of hours! :D

Stuart
 
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Also, if you set your camera to beep when it reaches focus, if half pressing the shutter release. This works on my 30D so sure it must work with yours.
 
stu_the_flat said:
All my lenses are manual focus at the moment. I use the rangefinder on my D60 and a Katzeye split prism, I would strongly recomend one even if you use autofoucs.

I also found that my cameras veiw finder was mis-calabrated so that what was appearing in foucs on the veiwfinder will be out of foucs on the sensor! Iif that is the case then you don't have a hope of getting a sharp shot.

Its not to difficult to retune the camera with a katzeye a fast lens an allen key and a spare couple of hours! :D

Stuart
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ok but from 2m how can you tell at 1.4 that the eyeball has the focus and not the eyelash? what's your technique?
 
gman said:
So was I. When you manual focus it still shows you when you've hit the focus point. I'm not sure if it still works on lenses that are full-time manual focus but if it does then it would allow you to pick up some cracking manual focus only lenses at hardly any cost compared to modern auto-focus lenses.
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tiler65 said:
Also, if you set your camera to beep when it reaches focus, if half pressing the shutter release. This works on my 30D so sure it must work with yours.
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see above, still though I don't get how doing that is different to relying on auto focus, aren't you accepting the cameras opinion of whats in focus - therefore it's the same as auto focus?
 
Not if it's a lens that is only manual focus.

I must admit that learning how to manual focus should be a necessary skill as in some low-light conditions the auto-focus won't work or takes too long so being able to use your eye could be handy!

I reckon experience has a lot to do with getting it bang on.
 
The23rdman said:
Joe, a little trick Ste Manns showed me is to set your camera to high speed shooting mode and kinda turn the focus ring slightly both ways whilst shooting a burst. One of them will probably hit the exact spot you need.
Click to expand...

Yep, works a treat. On my 50D I have two speeds of continuous shooting, I generally use the slower one with 'normal' subjects, and switch to the higher speed one when I'm shooting anything that moves.

The only other two points I'd make are, check and adjust the dioptre, then do it again. Do it a third time to make sure.

Secondly - practice. Then do some more practice, finally, finish off with some more practice and a quick dioptre check.

I shoot practically exclusively manual focus (and by choice too :cuckoo:) nowadays. As Dean will tell you I struggled at first to get decent results but I think I got there in the end. I'm at a disadvantage to you in that I use old MF lenses whereas you are using a modern AF lens (but manually focusing), the difference is that I have to focus wide open and then stop down whereas you can pre set your aperture to whatever you want, but while focusing you are effectively still wide open on your lens.

Whatever you do though don't start pixel peeping and using focusing charts and such, it'll drive you mad :bang:
 
Back in the day when MF was the norm, focus screens were brighter and often had focussing aids like split and/or multiprisms. KatsEye can supply similar screens for many DSLRs but for the time being, I'm happy with the accuracy of the AF in both my bodies so will let it do the hard work (and blame it for any failures!) Oh, and MF lenses have a greater arc of travel on the focus ring for a set distance of focus change, far less sensitive than a modern AF lens, so easier to do very slight adjustments.
 
joescrivens said:
ok but from 2m how can you tell at 1.4 that the eyeball has the focus and not the eyelash? what's your technique?
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I would use the katzeye, if I'm being really pernicaty I will move the camera up and down slightly and then with the movement across the prism it becomes really obvious where the plain of focus is because everything else will jump from left to right. Obviously this technique is not going to work with a hyper active child or fighter jet!

Edit: you do have to train yourself to manual focus, most people that try and use my camera cannot nail the focus, I don't know why. Even when I'm quite drunk I can get sharp shots.

Stuart
 
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joescrivens said:
see above, still though I don't get how doing that is different to relying on auto focus, aren't you accepting the cameras opinion of whats in focus - therefore it's the same as auto focus?
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If you are having trouble are you sure your diopter/dioptre is set correctly?

edit; I see Ste Manns already pointed that out.
 
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tiler65 said:
If you are having trouble are you sure your diopter/dioptre is set correctly?
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I guess my point is I just can't see the difference when the focus is on the eyeball or the eyelash at 1,4 through the viewfinder. an eye is so small in a viewfinder with a person stood 2 m away that I don't understand how you guys can even see the difference at that tiny subject.
 
joescrivens said:
I guess my point is I just can't see the difference when the focus is on the eyeball or the eyelash at 1,4 through the viewfinder. an eye is so small in a viewfinder with a person stood 2 m away that I don't understand how you guys can even see the difference at that tiny subject.
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Thats because the veiwfinder recives a larger depth of feild than the sensor. These alternate screens help that problem.

Stuart
 
stu_the_flat said:
Thats because the veiwfinder recives a larger depth of feild than the sensor. These alternate screens help that problem.

Stuart
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well this part makes sense to me, but I thought that people still manage to do it with screens like mine?
 
Nod said:
for the time being, I'm happy with the accuracy of the AF in both my bodies so will let it do the hard work (and blame it for any failures!) .
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Agreed - I've never noticed my AF to be out, so never seen the need to use MF. The only time I've used MF was when shooting fireworks, so nothing for AF to focus on.
 
Are you using a 50mm 1.4?

With your set up I get this read out wit a DoF calculator

Subject distance 2 m
Depth of field Near limit 1.94 m Far limit 2.07 m Total 0.13 m In front of subject 0.06 m (48%) Behind subject 0.07 m (52%) Hyperfocal distance 59 m Circle of confusion 0.03 mm

Therefore you have 130mm of area that can be in focus. 60mm in front of where you focused and 70mm behind.
 
It's similar for the 24-70 at 70mm and f/2.8, so I'd expect depth of field to look after the focus at that distance (2m).
 
I have the same problem, you do get better with practice, the other thing I have used is live view and then zoom in on it this way you can get very accurate focusing.
 
Davec223 said:
I have the same problem, you do get better with practice, the other thing I have used is live view and then zoom in on it this way you can get very accurate focusing.
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I find this method, whilst accurate, is very cumbersome and time consuming. Fine for macro and such but pretty useless for portraiture. After you've practiced for several months I think the best bet is to just focus bracket a lot. Manual focusing is something I think just gets better over time. What works for some doesn't help others but stick at it, try different things and you'll nail it in your own way.
 
joescrivens said:
well this part makes sense to me, but I thought that people still manage to do it with screens like mine?
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Experience, luck and lots of shots :) I have 20/20 vision as well which helps :D

Seriously though, I get a better hit rate with my new screen in the 5D. I believe these are also available for the 40/50D, 5DII and 1D series with Canon. Presume the situation is similar for Nikon :)

I did a portrait shoot on Wednesday night in available light with my Carl Zeiss Planar 50/1.4 @ F1.4 @ ISO 1600 @ 1/60 second and threw away around 80 of the 350 images. The rest were tack sharp or near enough. Most of those thrown away were due to camera shake rather than mis-focusing. I should of course add the more expensive models have larger viewfinders anyway, which always helps!
 
joescrivens said:
patronizing much?
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Nope - not meant to be. Which bit, what my manual said or the fact there's alternative focussing screens available?
There's a thread just a few down about people not reading the manual, and some might not know there's alternative screens available.

There's different ways of using manual focus, usually when I don't want the focus point to change. I sometimes use it in motorsport when panning. I pick a point on the circuit, prefocus on that, and shoot just before to just after that point. Having a beep/red square telling me I'm there is great. Why wouldn't I use that system?

Other times the autofocus just won't, such as when too dark. If I'm shooting cars in the dark then it's manual focus so the focus won't change, then light the area with a torch to get the focus nailed.

I think it works quite well, although I must admit when I first started with a digital SLR I missed the split prism viewfinder of my film cameras.
 
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tiler65 said:
Are you using a 50mm 1.4?

With your set up I get this read out wit a DoF calculator

Subject distance 2 m
Depth of field Near limit 1.94 m Far limit 2.07 m Total 0.13 m In front of subject 0.06 m (48%) Behind subject 0.07 m (52%) Hyperfocal distance 59 m Circle of confusion 0.03 mm

Therefore you have 130mm of area that can be in focus. 60mm in front of where you focused and 70mm behind.
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Maybe the the people joescrivens photographs have REALLY long eyelashes? :D

Stuart
 
stu_the_flat said:
Maybe the the people joescrivens photographs have REALLY long eyelashes? :D

Stuart
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Ha, yeah 1 meter long!

I gave a really poor example there. I guess what I mean to say is, how do you know you have nailed the focus on the right bit just through the screen, the subject always seems in focus because it's so small it's hard to tell.

Easiest way to describe it is that what looks in focus to my eye at 100, if I then zoom in 10x in live view I can see actually isn't
 
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