MF - How much?

Musicman said:
80mm.

The rule of thumb for calculating standard lens length is that it's the length of the diagonal of the frame.

Using Pythagoras' theorem with a 57 mm (2 1/4") square => 81 mm
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Thanks, so it's actually pretty easy to work out. :)

Just looking at completed listings on Ebay and there seems to be quite a difference in price between the three cameras that appear to "suit" my needs.

The RB67 Pro-S seems to go for around £250 with a lens, same with the Broncia SQ cameras. Does that sound about right for what I should be looking at? Maybe put in max bids of say £220 when I get back to see if I get a bit of a bargain?

Alternatively the C220 seems to go for silly money. It seems to range from around £60-£180 with a lens. That seems really cheap and almost worth getting just as a plaything, rather than spend more on an SLR.

For example is there something I'm missing about this listing? A C220 and a 80mm f2.8 lens for less than £70 delivered!? Yet this one, from what I can tell the same, went for £180.:thinking:

The C330 also seems to be going for random prices, is there actually much difference between the two?

As I mentioned before it would be mosty for landscapes and maybe a bit of macro play (parallax allowing), yet to be perfectly honest I probably wouldn't be using grads anyway. The price difference makes the C220/330 very appealing though, especially if I could grab one with a lens at less than £100.

The big question I guess is should I be looking into the lenses much? With 35mm/digital lenses can be hit and miss, do you get this with Mamiya MF lenses as well or are they all much of a muchness?:shrug:
 
Amp34 said:
The big question I guess is should I be looking into the lenses much? With 35mm/digital lenses can be hit and miss, do you get this with Mamiya MF lenses as well or are they all much of a muchness?:shrug:
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Not really, MF stuff is usually a prime and usually very good quality, and usually there isn't anywhere near the same amount of choice or scope for obsessive obsessing to a millionth of a pixel.
Mamiya make lots of MF cameras but there are no 3rd party lens manufacturers I don't think, except maybe old Mamiya press stuffs..
My old Bronica EC 6x6 on the other hand had 3 lens manufacturers, Bronica, Nikkor and Komura, all of which were pretty much equal.
 
Cool, so it literally is a case of choosing a focal length and then perhaps an aperture if there are two available for that length. Sounds good! :)
 
Amp34 said:
Cool, so it literally is a case of choosing a focal length and then perhaps an aperture if there are two available for that length. Sounds good! :)
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IF there are two...and there won't be very often.
If there is a 500mm available for the system you choose, there will only be one and if its a 5.6, its a 5.6 the end.
WA is a 50, there may be a 40 there might not, there may be a 30 fisheye, there might not, and the difference between a 2.8 and a 3.5 50 isn't worth obsessing over like we do in digital land..:)
 
From my brief look around there are about 2 focal lengths that seem to come in slightly different apertures (Broncia and RB). The thing I did notice was there were a few lenses with letters after (such as C), i'm guessin these are slightly better to get if I had the choice?

Either way it's not particularly important at the moment. Still need to decide on what MF camera to get... :LOL:
 
Get an RB or an SQ unless you want some daft glass like a 300mm macro or something equally obscure.
They are the cheapest whilst retaining quality and have a good lens range with decent availability.
Anything else is slightly more specialized, it will be more expensive, it will be harder to find, and likely to be not as adaptable...
 
They are at the top of my list definately, just not sure whether to go for the C220 as they seem to be about half the price. I keep thinking that if I really got into it though that I would probably end up getting one of the aforementioned cameras...

Having said that I really want a camera that will do 6x6. The RB doesn't, which leaves the SQ or the much cheaper C220...:p
 
Not sure where you're based but if you're ever in the Leicester/Derby region you're more than welcome to take a look at my gear and get a feel for focal lengths. I've got a Bronica SQ with 50, 80, 150, 250 and 500mm lenses.

I don't think the 50mm is that wide, Ekimeno had the 40mm but they're too much money for me for the little use it would get. I know what it's supposed to equate to on 35mm but it just doesn't "feel" that wide even if it is.

For any sort of wildlife then I think you'll need at least 250mm but more likely 500mm. The problem is, with the Bronica at least that you can't get fast (2.8) long lenses. The 250mm is 5.6 and the 500mm is F8. This isn't so much a problem for DOF and throwing the background out but is a limiting factor when it comes to your exposure (which is also limited by a max shutter speed of 1/500), there is a lot of compromise in MF in my opinion.

As a master of using the most unsuitable equipment for any given photographic opportunity (medium format water-sports anyone?) I'd say it's not an ideal system for wildlife. It's a slow way of working. Metering, focussing, winding on and that bloody noisy mirror slap, all less than ideal for wildlife, still gives me immense pleasure though.

If you're serious about the wildlife aspect I'd think about the Pentax 6x7 system which offers a 600mm F4, but now we'll be pushing your budget. If you're interested in the Pentax 6x7 have a word with Rob (Arkady) who has had one for a long time.
 
Kev M said:
shutter speed of 1/500), there is a lot of compromise in MF in my opinion.

As a master of using the most unsuitable equipment for any given photographic opportunity (medium format water-sports anyone?)
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:LOL::LOL::LOL:
 
Kev M said:
I don't think the 50mm is that wide, Ekimeno had the 40mm but they're too much money for me for the little use it would get. I know what it's supposed to equate to on 35mm but it just doesn't "feel" that wide even if it is.
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On 6x6 40mm is almost exactly half the calculated standard length (81mm).

The technical 'standard' (going by the diagonal) on 35mm is 43.3mm, so the 'crop factor' is 0.53 and it works out as near-enough a 21mm equivalent.

Edit: The square format of 6x6 may well alter your feeling of how wide it is, though.
 
Musicman said:
Edit: The square format of 6x6 may well alter your feeling of how wide it is, though.
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I think that has probably hit the nail on the head. It is wide but doesn't feel it because it's also tall.
 
80mm on 6x6 doesn't feel wide , it feels proper. best is to see it with your own eyes, math won't help here .
 
Thanks Kev M, unfortunately I won't be able to take you up on your offer as I live in the South but thanks for the offer. :)

WRT wildlife I was thinking something like deer or bigger animals in their environment, still a bit of a problem? Either way the main use would still be landscape so not much of an issue if I can't do it. :)

What sort of price should I be looking at for the basic setup? Just looking on ebay again shows bodies going for all sorts of prices, from £150-250 for the body, back and the 80mm lens.
 
you're going to stuggle to use grads and other filters on a TLR. You should have no problem picking up a complete RB67 kit for £250. All lenses for the RB67 are 77mm thread so easy on filter selection/availability :)
 
Very true Mohain but think the OP is after 6x6 format.

You can use polorizers etc on TLR cameras it just requires a little bit of thought :)

Amp34 you ask earlier what the difference is between the C220 and C330 this link will give you an idea http://www.williamsphotographic.com/ocr/mf/mamtlr.html
 
The only issue I have with the RB67 is that it doesn't do 6x6 otherwise it would be my preferred camera. I didn't realise that all of its lenses were 77mm though, means I could use my ND if needed. :)
 
Knikki said:
Very true Mohain but think the OP is after 6x6 format.

You can use polorizers etc on TLR cameras it just requires a little bit of thought :)

Amp34 you ask earlier what the difference is between the C220 and C330 this link will give you an idea http://www.williamsphotographic.com/ocr/mf/mamtlr.html
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Thanks. :)

So the C330 is the one to go for out of the two then as it's slightly better? I guess polarisers will just need orienting on the viewing lens and then placing onto the capturing lens. Grads would be a bit more difficult, but then I don't have any at the moment anyway... :LOL:
 
but with a 6x7 neg you can crop to 6x6 easily or 2x3 format easily. best of both worlds :)
 
I'd rather shoot 6x6 straight from the camera though. :LOL:

On my travels I did hear something about the ability of the RB67 to shoot 6x6 but apparently the back was very rare? I did wonder about doing some modification to the prism/viewfinder with a bit of black electrical tape, at least that would provide a view of 6x6. I'm guessing modifying a back to do the same would be rather difficult?
 
Oh another thing...

The RB and C220/330 have bellows which allow close macro ability (at least that's what I've read), does the SQ?
 
Amp34 said:
Oh another thing...

The RB and C220/330 have bellows which allow close macro ability (at least that's what I've read), does the SQ?
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Nope

The only way to get really close with a Broinca is
Extension tubes S18 or S36, range anything from £50-£100+

Or macro lens

110mm f4 will only do 1:4

110mm f4.5 will do 1:1 both of which are £300-£400 and rare.

Think they did something else but can't remeber.
 
Sorry Nick but you can get bellows for the Bronica but they're a bit like rocking-horse poo.

Bronica Accessories
 
Thanks Kev I thought that Bronica did bellows was just not 100% sure.

However they are not integral to the camera as is the Mamiya set up, so I am kind of correct ;) :D
 
Oops! I was really looking for an RB, but there it was and I thought to myself "Let's see what happens if I throw in a low bid..."

Amp34, can I blame you when the wife asks me questions about the Mamiya 645J that I've just bought on eBay for £78? :D
 
Musicman said:
Oops! I was really looking for an RB, but there it was and I thought to myself "Let's see what happens if I throw in a low bid..."

Amp34, can I blame you when the wife asks me questions about the Mamiya 645J that I've just bought on eBay for £78? :D
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Quality (y)(y)(y)
 
Haha. :D

There seem to be some absolute bargains if you bid on the right auctions!
 
I have a mamiya c330 and it is very good one of the sharpest lenses I have ever used (80mm f2.8) It also only cost me £100 as it has a few marks...

The only problem with it is using filters as you are unable to see what effect they are having as you are looking through a different lens, if that makes sense.
 
The filter thing is something you get used to, were it not for using an SLR for years, we wouldn't make such an issue of it.
I shoot a rangefinder, its exactly the same but I still shoot grads and polarisers, you just need to form a method for working with them.
:)
 
Liam said:
I have a mamiya c330 and it is very good one of the sharpest lenses I have ever used (80mm f2.8)
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Recently looking back through old B&W negs shot on a C330, most on 50ASA Agfa, and they are incredibly sharp with great tonal rendition. The camera was a bit of a lump but still tempted to re-aquaint myself with that 80mm lens.
A surprisingly good steet camera if you pre-focus and peep through the little hood window.
 
Just a quick question, what filters do you guys have with your cameras? Are you using colour filters for B&W regularly or no need to worry, just grads and CPLs?
 
For landscapes I use a 58mm red & a polariser filter for b/w occasionally on my Mamiya, and a cokin set of grads.
 
Amp34 said:
Just a quick question, what filters do you guys have with your cameras? Are you using colour filters for B&W regularly or no need to worry, just grads and CPLs?
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For B&W there's a yellow filter on the lens pretty much all the time, unless I remove it to fit a orange or red one. Then again - I do like contrasty :)
 
Finally got a yellow for the C35EF3... other than that though no - but only 'cos they are odd sizes and pricey!
 
Well, I thought I'd add my 2p... The RB67 is a stunning camera and built like a tank. I now reach for this before my Digital when opening my camera bag on location. 67 format for me is an absolute winner, like mohain said; crop-able to most of the popular ratios.

Oh, and 67 format gives 10 frames to a roll, not 8 as someone said earlier.

Feel free to PM if you have any specific questions chap :)

EDIT: with regards to your filters question... Grads on B&W can have adverse effects on the image. I personally suggest learning the zone system for exposing when shooting in mono. Colour filters can be useful, though I would suggest researching the frequency response curves for the film you are using and then using the appropriate coloured filter. Personally, I never use CPL's on film, as I tend to shoot slide file such as velvia which needs no saturation boost! Grads on slide is practically a necessity.
 
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