Minister to meet Jaguar Land Rover boss as thousands of job cuts expected

[Mr Bump]

Saw this and just thought it is sad, but why haven't JLR moved with the times?
The world wants more affordable, EV/Hybrid cars and pretty much all they sell is vastly expensive SUVs for the school run?

Business secretary to meet Jaguar Land Rover boss as thousands of job cuts expected

The company is struggling with the impact of tariffs as well as the fallout from a major cyber attack last year.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[lindsay]

Their cars appeal mostly to Americans and chavs these days, with a minority being desirable to the original type of customer looking for superb off road capability in comfort. The new Defender summarises this perfectly. Also, no-one wants to buy a car these days, they want permanent rental at exorbitant prices so they can show off.

 

[Mr Bump]

Their cars appeal mostly to Americans and chavs these days, with a minority being desirable to the original type of customer looking for superb off road capability in comfort. The new Defender summarises this perfectly. Also, no-one wants to buy a car these days, they want permanent rental at exorbitant prices so they can show off.

Very true I wonder how many of there trucks are on PCP type deals

 

[cambsno]

The whole rebrand of Jag the other year pretty much killed it!

While there is always a place for niche brands like Ferrari etc... if you want mainstream you need to do what the market does with a bit of innovation too.

 

[Mr Perceptive]

Current Business Model has been badly hit by USA, both in terms of Tarriffs in US and Iran intervention which will result in loss of sales in Middle East

But @Mr Bump is right in that they are late to the electric party, and retrofiting existing vehicles to be electric ultimately won't cut it, the vehicles will be very heavy and not very effecient. The more succesful EVs will be the one's designed for electric from the start, where the weight of batteries can be positioned (in multiple places in some cases) to make the vehicles more effeicient and lighter.

Unfortunately for every job lost at JLR, becuase of scaling back production, it usually results in 2-4 jobs being lost in the supply chain

 

[jonny pallisey]

Dad used to work for that lot and when he was made redundant got a decent package and was given option on his company car too.He sold it straight away to a local dealer

 

[zx9]

The whole rebrand of Jag the other year pretty much killed it!

While there is always a place for niche brands like Ferrari etc... if you want mainstream you need to do what the market does with a bit of innovation too.

Yes a couple of years ago they trumpeted a deliberate move away from their traditional customer base, I guess that worked, unfortunately the new younger set of customers have a wide choice of bland electric SUV s many at more attractive monthly payment rates.

 

[Mr Bump]

Yes a couple of years ago they trumpeted a deliberate move away from their traditional customer base, I guess that worked, unfortunately the new younger set of customers have a wide choice of bland electric SUV s many at more attractive monthly payment rates.

Not convinced about that so much the "Jag" brand was failing, poor engines, poor design, waning audience it would have failed if they hadn't pulled it.

The JLR brand however just hasn't moved with the times selling hugely expensive SUVs in a world where the Chinese are smashing it for budget EV/Hybrid and as for US and Asia markets they are taxing imports like these to boost there own car industries, just look at Malaysia alone...

Importing a car into Malaysia incurs cumulative duties and taxes that can exceed 100% to 300% of the vehicle's value, driven by a combination of import duties, excise duties, and sales tax

A top spec Mini over there is £100k ,

US taxes

The US import tax on UK-made cars is 10% for the first 100,000 vehicles exported annually, and 27.5% for any additional cars above that quota

 

[woof woof]

Their cars appeal mostly to Americans and chavs these days, with a minority being desirable to the original type of customer looking for superb off road capability in comfort. The new Defender summarises this perfectly. Also, no-one wants to buy a car these days, they want permanent rental at exorbitant prices so they can show off.

Very true I wonder how many of there trucks are on PCP type deals

As an owner who paid cash I really resent the chav comment, Good Gosh you should know better than this Lindsey.

 

[lindsay]

Alan that was certainly not pointed at anyone on TP. I was getting at all the people who take out PCP deals on the Defender, Evoque and Velar and to a lesser extent RR Sport (Range Rooney's in Top Gear parlance) in particular. I've owned three JLR vehicles, a Disco 4 bought on HP and ultimately owned outright, a Disco 4 special edition custom built to LHD on PCP but then sold to Rod Stewart for his nanny's use in Switzerland, and a Disco 4 bought used for cash.
I've no idea which model you bought, but if you bought new for cash or used likewise, those are not the customers I was expressing disdain for. It's the ones buying those three models on PCP brand new, paying upwards of £700/month, just to impress people. It happens also but to a lesser extent with Merc's; we knew a couple who had a lovely C class, but when new tyres were needed they bought the cheapest; same with brake discs. If you can't maintain them don't buy them is my mantra.
Anyway, apologies if my comments annoyed or upset you, as I'm certain you don't fit into my category for irritation!

 

[woof woof]

Not convinced about that so much the "Jag" brand was failing, poor engines, poor design, waning audience it would have failed if they hadn't pulled it.

The JLR brand however just hasn't moved with the times selling hugely expensive SUVs in a world where the Chinese are smashing it for budget EV/Hybrid and as for US and Asia markets they are taxing imports like these to boost there own car industries, just look at Malaysia alone...

Importing a car into Malaysia incurs cumulative duties and taxes that can exceed 100% to 300% of the vehicle's value, driven by a combination of import duties, excise duties, and sales tax

A top spec Mini over there is £100k ,

US taxes

The US import tax on UK-made cars is 10% for the first 100,000 vehicles exported annually, and 27.5% for any additional cars above that quota

The cars and engines have been strangled by environmental legislation and affected also by how people buy cars and both of these factors have arguably hit reliability and longevity and they're not the only ones, many modern cars have real reliability issues, wet belt anyone? I'm not going to pay £100k for a top spec LR but look at the models throughout the range and the spec up the competition and the LR products don't look vastly overpriced any more. Remind me how much a high end BMW X7 is. Oh yeah, over £100k. Even at the cheaper end when I spec up a cooking variety far eastern SUV but not Chinese SUV the price is in Evoque ball park even when the cost of doing business in the west is a factor.

I don't think it's fair to bring Chinese cars into this as no one else can at the moment compete with the prices because of the way the Chinese system works. The only way "we" in the west could is to adopt the Chinese system and although many in the west seem to want to live under an ever more socialist/communist regime when reality hits I don't think they'll be too happy. The UK's national debt is over 90% of GDP whilst Chine is anything up to 300%. Can that go on? And then we have to bring reliability and build into this. A friend of mine bought a Chinese SUV and although not Evoque spec it looks to be a nice car and the price is very nice so off I went and watched some tear down vids and I was nothing short of appealed. One guy ripped the car and an Evoque to bits and at the end said "Buy the Evoque." Other vids came to similar conclusions, the Chinese cars were poorly built, one cost of pushing so many out of the door and treating your workers like slaves probably has an effect to.

Chinese cars can look attractive and they may be on the road to solving parts availability issues but I worry about driving a car which has been thrown together. Watch the vids, not those made by people impressed by the size of the info screen and incapable of doing anything except slamming a door and saying it sounds quality, watch the vids by people who know how a car should be built and how it should not be built.

 

[woof woof]

Alan that was certainly not pointed at anyone on TP. I was getting at all the people who take out PCP deals on the Defender, Evoque and Velar and to a lesser extent RR Sport (Range Rooney's in Top Gear parlance) in particular. I've owned three JLR vehicles, a Disco 4 bought on HP and ultimately owned outright, a Disco 4 special edition custom built to LHD on PCP but then sold to Rod Stewart for his nanny's use in Switzerland, and a Disco 4 bought used for cash.
I've no idea which model you bought, but if you bought new for cash or used likewise, those are not the customers I was expressing disdain for. It's the ones buying those three models on PCP brand new, paying upwards of £700/month, just to impress people. It happens also but to a lesser extent with Merc's; we knew a couple who had a lovely C class, but when new tyres were needed they bought the cheapest; same with brake discs. If you can't maintain them don't buy them is my mantra.
Anyway, apologies if my comments annoyed or upset you, as I'm certain you don't fit into my category for irritation!

I'm not upset Lindsey, just a but shocked that you'd post such a comment but to play along with you for a moment, German cars could well be pulled into the same statement as could any designer/luxury good or service. Watches, hand bags, IPhones, restaurants, you name it. Chavs can indeed get the cash or access to finance and own the product and use the service others think they shouldn't. Who's to say who is a chav and who isn't? Who is deserving of ownership and access and who isn't?

Being working class and from South Bank, Middlesbrough I've seen this attitude all of my life. It doesn't surprise me.

 

[woof woof]

Current Business Model has been badly hit by USA, both in terms of Tarriffs in US and Iran intervention which will result in loss of sales in Middle East

The Chinese market is no doubt a factor too but I don't know how successful and profitable or not LR partnerships in China have been, obviously not enough to offset US tariffs and direct sales in China.

 

[woof woof]

The whole rebrand of Jag the other year pretty much killed it!

While there is always a place for niche brands like Ferrari etc... if you want mainstream you need to do what the market does with a bit of innovation too.

Even before that Jag was seen as the LR tax with poor and dropping sales. The dealership I go to had a few Jags in a corner and it did look like a grudging effort they were forced into.

 

[Box Brownie]

IIRC

After the MG brand was bought by a Chinese manufacturer, the first model to come to the EU/UK didn't meet the required crash test standards!

Having said that, I had as a company car a Ford Mondeo estate in the 80's and had a prang to the front nearside quarter.

It was in the repair shop for a long time as they struggled to "straighten it out" to the required conformation. IIRC someone said that the early manufacturing runs had an issue with the longerons, they were described as being too short!!!

 

[jonny pallisey]

I notice the chinese are bringing in cars at Felixstowe port big time recently.As the port is a container port are they coming in inside shipping containers? Every day i see at least a car transporter humming away up the A14 loaded up with 8 of these soulless looking cars. Theyre buying up car dealerships too [could be renting] -theyll flood the car market be suprised if they are stopped !
Guy i knew ran a pig equipment manu business, someone from China called him up offering him the chance ,a deal to make his product over there.When he said no thanks the guy said we might just make the stuff here anyhow and see how you like that!

 

[lindsay]

I'm not upset Lindsey, just a but shocked that you'd post such a comment but to play along with you for a moment, German cars could well be pulled into the same statement as could any designer/luxury good or service. Watches, hand bags, IPhones, restaurants, you name it. Chavs can indeed get the cash or access to finance and own the product and use the service others think they shouldn't. Who's to say who is a chav and who isn't? Who is deserving of ownership and access and who isn't?

Being working class and from South Bank, Middlesbrough I've seen this attitude all of my life. It doesn't surprise me.

I too come from a "working class " background but have followed my dad's lead and pulled myself up, social mobility wise. But I don't think that class has anything to do with it. When I refer to chav's, I mean people who want the shiny bling and designer labels but whilst they have the money to rent them, they don't have the money or ability to own and retain them. This applies especially to flashy/premium cars, but could equally apply as you say to watches (Tag Heuer and Breitling being good examples), handbags, etc. At least those items tend to be purchased though. I am all in favour of people bettering themselves both educationally and financially. The motor retail market has clearly catered for these people because they are so keen to be seen in these vehicles that they mortgage their lifestyle to them. Eventually they will be obliged to make do with an old banger or cheaper brand, and begin to rue the waste of money on cars that could instead have bought them a nicer house etc. or more quality of life.

 

[mj4456]

Aren’t JLR owned by TATA? shouldn’t it be up to the Indian owners to put their hand in their pocket to sort out the mess rather than UK government looking into it.

 

[Mr Bump]

the biggest thing that has led to this crisis is quite simply, most other western countries are taxing car imports to high heaven and we are not.
We are to scared because all the cars the UK consumer buys are imported so it would lead to higher prices for UK consumers.

• Standard Rate: 10% applies to most non-EU manufactured cars or cars without proper origin proof.
• EU-Manufactured Cars: 0% duty can apply under the UK-EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA), but you must provide a valid origin declaration from the exporter.

if we wanted to stope Chinese cars flooding the market we could with a pen stroke but the reality is those cars are the best hope for budget conscious drivers in the UK who are fed up with overpriced euro cars from the big players.

 

[Mr Bump]

I notice the chinese are bringing in cars at Felixstowe port big time recently.As the port is a container port are they coming in inside shipping containers? Every day i see at least a car transporter humming away up the A14 loaded up with 8 of these soulless looking cars. Theyre buying up car dealerships too [could be renting] -theyll flood the car market be suprised if they are stopped !
Guy i knew ran a pig equipment manu business, someone from China called him up offering him the chance ,a deal to make his product over there.When he said no thanks the guy said we might just make the stuff here anyhow and see how you like that!

you say soulless but to most people cars have been that way for years, people don't want glitz and glamour they want boxes on wheels that can carry all the crap of kids and shopping and holidays with wipe clean interiors.

 

[cambsno]

I notice the chinese are bringing in cars at Felixstowe port big time recently.As the port is a container port are they coming in inside shipping containers? Every day i see at least a car transporter humming away up the A14 loaded up with 8 of these soulless looking cars. Theyre buying up car dealerships too [could be renting] -theyll flood the car market be suprised if they are stopped !
Guy i knew ran a pig equipment manu business, someone from China called him up offering him the chance ,a deal to make his product over there.When he said no thanks the guy said we might just make the stuff here anyhow and see how you like that!

Are they? BYD are pretty good - been a passenger in those a few times. No more soul-less than the stuff we get from Japan or Korea, or even euro cars. The only ones with sole IMO tend to be the premium brands like BMW, Merc etc but they are getting quite generic now.

 

[jonny pallisey]

Are they? BYD are pretty good - been a passenger in those a few times. No more soul-less than the stuff we get from Japan or Korea, or even euro cars. The only ones with sole IMO tend to be the premium brands like BMW, Merc etc but they are getting quite generic now.

years back i was sat in the drivers seat of an old Merc 190 diesel,it was a faded red/pink,quite high miles .Suddenly i heard a noise like a 3 second sigh but deep tone behind me,inside the car. I whipped round,nothing... likely i imagined it . About a minute later a different noise ,more like a cardboard box sliding on a seat still inside . Believe That car had a spirit to it

 

[Mr Bump]

 

[Mr Bump]

The Ford Puma is made Craiova Assembly Plant, Romania.
The Kia is made in Slovakia
Jaecoo China
Corsa Zaragoza, Spain
MG China

only the Nissan and The Golf are local , Sunderland and germany
UK Volvos are still sweden

 

[Box Brownie]

The Ford Puma is made Craiova Assembly Plant, Romania.
The Kia is made in Slovakia
Jaecoo China
Corsa Zaragoza, Spain
MG China

only the Nissan and The Golf are local , Sunderland and germany
UK Volvos are still sweden

IIRC the Ford Eco Sport is made in India

 

[lindsay]

years back i was sat in the drivers seat of an old Merc 190 diesel,it was a faded red/pink,quite high miles .Suddenly i heard a noise like a 3 second sigh but deep tone behind me,inside the car. I whipped round,nothing... likely i imagined it . About a minute later a different noise ,more like a cardboard box sliding on a seat still inside . Believe That car had a spirit to it

Are you sure you weren't secretly farting?

 

[tarric]

Aren’t JLR owned by TATA? shouldn’t it be up to the Indian owners to put their hand in their pocket to sort out the mess rather than UK government looking into it.

Don't be silly, why should a company waste their hard earned coin when they can get the government to stump up millions and give them a few tax breaks to boot.
That's what governments are for isn't it.