Mirror less cameras advice needed

T

Tommyphoto9826

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12
Name
Michael
Edit My Images
Yes
Hi all
I'm a vehicle photographer with a dealership and I've been using a canon 5dii .
I've been fighting with my camera for too long now.
I'm not looking for advise on changing the background color or location of my shoot because this is what my client needs.
I'm shooting the cars with a white wall in the background. When shooting different color cars my camera sometimes has a mind me it's own . Images going from under to over exposed.
I've decided to change my camera to a mirrorless one so here's my question.
What camera in your opinion works well for this type of photography especially with the majority of my image being WHITE ? as you know every digital camera want to turn white to mid Grey.
I want a camera with good battery life also

ANY IDEAS ?

Mod edit post re-instated
 
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The 5D2 is a capable camera capable of consistent results. What white balance are you using? What modes are you using. If you have something approaching studio environment you should be getting consistent results. I don't think changing camera will make a difference, there is something in how you are using it.

I would try not using auto white balance, but set the white balance to something representative.
 
Trappe said:
I am not a car photographer but....Sounds like you need to shoot in RAW and set your camera to manual. .
Click to expand...

Shooting raw wont make any difference... setting to manual will

The answer as Andrew says is to NOT let the camera choose the white balance.. the clue is in the question when the OP says "my camera sometimes has a mind me it's own " believe me going mirrorless or any change of camera wont fix this... The OP needs to learn how to set his own WB by taking a reading.....


ADDYONBIT
@j crossley I wasnt copying we posted at same time oops :)
 
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It sounds like a metering issue to me. Changing to mirrorless won’t make that much difference to solve the issue. As your cars are static you can use the live view function and it’s pretty much the same as a mirrorless camera in that the advantage is you see the exposure. Like others have said manual mode could be the answer as you will be setting the exposure and not relying on the cameras metering. The exposure settings wouldn’t change from car to car unless the lighting conditions changed. What metering mode are you currently using? Matrix metering can give a very difference exposure to spot metering.
 
Also is it flickering lights? does the 5dii have anti flicker ?
 
How on this earth did anyone ever manage to take photos with film.

A digital camera that you can see the photo you are or have taken appears on the back of the camera and people can't get it right!

Then some one suggests shotting RAW as a solution.

I am being polite here belive me.

What a state of affairs!
 
shapeshifter said:
How on this earth did anyone ever manage to take photos with film.

A digital camera that you can see the photo you are or have taken appears on the back of the camera and people can't get it right!

Then some one suggests shotting RAW as a solution.

I am being polite here belive me.

What a state of affairs!
Click to expand...

Film always had a lot of leeway (unless trannies) and the lab would just correct out any colour balance issues at the time of printing - just like adjusting colour balance in RAW. But I agree that IF exposure and colour temperature are issues that the camera controls poorly then manual setting is the 'obvious' fix, especially if one can chimp/check histogram.

As an easy fix, the OP could try setting exposure and colour temperature using a grey card. I'm a little curious that you're asking relatively basic questions like this if working professionally.
 
Tommyphoto9826 said:
Hi all
I'm a vehicle photographer with a dealership and I've been using a canon 5dii .
I've been fighting with my camera for too long now.
I'm not looking for advise on changing the background color or location of my shoot because this is what my client needs.
I'm shooting the cars with a white wall in the background. When shooting different color cars my camera sometimes has a mind me it's own . Images going from under to over exposed.
I've decided to change my camera to a mirrorless one so here's my question.
What camera in your opinion works well for this type of photography especially with the majority of my image being WHITE ? as you know every digital camera want to turn white to mid Grey.
I want a camera with good battery life also

ANY IDEAS ?
Click to expand...

Hi Michael and welcome to TP

Now, much of what I have been thinking in regard to your OP has been said above..................but let me distil all aspects as I see it ~ and apologies in advance if any questions or things I post upset(?) you, that is not and is never my intention.

Firstly, a change of camera in and of itself will not solve your problem(s). Unless of course there is a fault with the camera and please bear in mind that many 'faults' are nothing of the sort but simply 'pilot error.

So, some questions raised by what you have posted:-

  1. I am a tad confused by your description of yourself "I'm a vehicle photographer with a dealership"
    Are you employed by the dealership and is the camera yours or owned by the dealership and given to you to use in that part of your role?
    This is further muddied, as in your mention of "I'm not looking for advise on changing the background color or location of my shoot because this is what my client needs."

    Ref to a client implies that you are a freelancer who works independently and this is but one client...............if so? What is it about this one clients demands that is giving you a problem compared to your other clients?

  2. How familiar are you with the Canon 5D2
    Have you read the manual?
    What are the camera settings you have chosen to photograph the cars?
    What settings did you change when you realised the "When shooting different color cars my camera sometimes has a mind me it's own . Images going from under to over exposed"?

    Can I take a guess ~ when you refer to different colour cars, are you mostly seeing the effect depending on whether the car is a dark or light colour against the white background???

  3. Are you relying on the camera to produce a perfectly exposed picture everytime?
    Plus are you familiar with subject of Post Processing?
    Yes, the aim should always be to 'get it right in camera' but please bear in mind that many car photographs are not the result of 'straight out of camera'

As you can see, before anyone can address your 'need for advice' there is a real need for you to describe to the fullest what is happening and why you think buying another camera will solve it for you...........because it won't.............it is not as simple as that and naive to think so ;)

HTH
 
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One additional thought which I don't think has been covered above; the exposure meter in the camera (and any exposure meter) takes the "average" as being 18% grey. So if you point a camera at a white wall and take a shot on full automatic the wall will come out as grey, at the very least you need to use the exposure compensation in those circumstances to make the wall look white. As has been said, spending thousands on a new camera will not help, it will still make a white wall grey when on automatic.
 
I think a new camera might well make things easier as at least with a mirrorless camera you can see the picture in the evf before you press the button. You can therefore dial in any required exposure compensation and adjust the white balance and when you press the button the picture you get shouldn't really come as any big surprise.

If the 5DII image quality is acceptable maybe the OP won't have to go FF to get as good results and instead could save some money going for an APS-C. I think my MFT Panasonic GX80 gives the 5DII a good scare (and may be better in some regards) so an APS-C could be adequate or even give better image quality.
 
All advise taken and thanks .
I'm very familiar on how my camera works. And all aspects of exposure. And the settings. I use AV and M a lot
When photography people and other things the camera performs as it should. To be honest I wasn't looking for advice on how to use a DSLR . I thought this forum would be a good place to ask other photographers their advice on a good mirrorless.
 
Tommyphoto9826 said:
All advise taken and thanks .
I'm very familiar on how my camera works. And all aspects of exposure. And the settings. I use AV and M a lot
When photography people and other things the camera performs as it should. To be honest I wasn't looking for advice on how to use a DSLR . I thought this forum would be a good place to ask other photographers their advice on a good mirrorless.
Click to expand...

You original post would strongly suggest otherwise.

I'd echo the advice from others - learn your own camera and photography properly first.
 
Box Brownie said:
Hi Michael and welcome to TP

Now, much of what I have been thinking in regard to your OP has been said above..................but let me distil all aspects as I see it ~ and apologies in advance if any questions or things I post upset(?) you, that is not and is never my intention.

Firstly, a change of camera in and of itself will not solve your problem(s). Unless of course there is a fault with the camera and please bear in mind that many 'faults' are nothing of the sort but simply 'pilot error.

So, some questions raised by what you have posted:-

  1. I am a tad confused by your description of yourself "I'm a vehicle photographer with a dealership"
    Are you employed by the dealership and is the camera yours or owned by the dealership and given to you to use in that part of your role?
    This is further muddied, as in your mention of "I'm not looking for advise on changing the background color or location of my shoot because this is what my client needs."

    Ref to a client implies that you are a freelancer who works independently and this is but one client...............if so? What is it about this one clients demands that is giving you a problem compared to your other clients?

  2. How familiar are you with the Canon 5D2
    Have you read the manual?
    What are the camera settings you have chosen to photograph the cars?
    What settings did you change when you realised the "When shooting different color cars my camera sometimes has a mind me it's own . Images going from under to over exposed"?

    Can I take a guess ~ when you refer to different colour cars, are you mostly seeing the effect depending on whether the car is a dark or light colour against the white background???

  3. Are you relying on the camera to produce a perfectly exposed picture everytime?
    Plus are you familiar with subject of Post Processing?
    Yes, the aim should always be to 'get it right in camera' but please bear in mind that many car photographs are not the result of 'straight out of camera'

As you can see, before anyone can address your 'need for advice' there is a real need for you to describe to the fullest what is happening and why you think buying another camera will solve it for you...........because it won't.............it is not as simple as that and naive to think so ;)

HTH
Click to expand...
Hi Box Brownie
You're on the ball. I'm a freelance photographer and I'm at it years. I honestly think there's a problem with my meter or shutter, my camera has a good shutter count. I could be an intermittent problem but it's driving me mad. I have tested it even in manual. I'd set my exposure and take a few exposures and focus on the same spot on the vehicle and all the images could be way out and different. I've even tested it on a tripod so I didn't move. To the guys who think I'm changing my camera to get better images that's not my question. Again I'm thinking of going mirrorless and just asking for advice. The 5dii is too good a camera for the work I do on cars and a bit bulky. A smaller one would be handier
 
Tommyphoto9826 said:
All advise taken and thanks .
I'm very familiar on how my camera works. And all aspects of exposure. And the settings. I use AV and M a lot
When photography people and other things the camera performs as it should. To be honest I wasn't looking for advice on how to use a DSLR . I thought this forum would be a good place to ask other photographers their advice on a good mirrorless.
Click to expand...

Ah! OK.................................but it still beggars the question as to what is it about the 5D2 that is outfoxing you when it comes to the car photography under what it seems are controlled conditions???

I state the obvious ~ all photography is about the light and how you either work with it (e.g. bumping up the EC to shoot BiF or aircraft against a bright sky) or shooting still life using available light and/or artificial light with modifiers as needed to control the "lit" environment!

Re: Mirrorless
FWIW I switched to Olympus from Canon (still got my 5D3 should I feel the itch to press the shutter on Full Frame again) and it serves me well.

However, if budget was no object and I wanted Full Frame Mirrorless (ignoring the burden to lug it around :LOL: )I would likely buy the top end Sony model...............I have seen some lovely results from that system

PS edit ~ posted at the same time as @Tommyphoto9826 Michael

PPS Michael, if you are finding the camera is mis-behaving under a controlled test it is maybe time to get it looked at and repaired...............is the 5D2 still serviceable from the point of view of economic repair and/or parts availability???

But, again, the way you talk about it above as performing as it should for other non car subjects IMO is very odd and makes me think there is/are other factors at work???
 
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andrewc said:
The 5D2 is a capable camera capable of consistent results. What white balance are you using? What modes are you using. If you have something approaching studio environment you should be getting consistent results. I don't think changing camera will make a difference, there is something in how you are using it.

I would try not using auto white balance, but set the white balance to something representative.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply.
I think I may have put my question to the forum a bit confusing.
I think my 5dii has an intermittent problem going on . I'm a pretty competent photographer when it comes to operating my camera. I generally work in Manual and sometimes AV . Everything could be fine for days and then she'd start kicking up. So my real questing was regarding mirrorless and what's good out there that you guys have used.
 
Box Brownie said:
Ah! OK.................................but it still beggars the question as to what is it about the 5D2 that is outfoxing you when it comes to the car photography under what it seems are controlled conditions???

I state the obvious ~ all photography is about the light and how you either work with it (e.g. bumping up the EC to shoot BiF or aircraft against a bright sky) or shooting still life using available light and/or artificial light with modifiers as needed to control the "lit" environment!

Re: Mirrorless
FWIW I switched to Olympus from Canon (still got my 5D3 should I feel the itch to press the shutter on Full Frame again) and it serves me well.

However, if budget was no object and I wanted Full Frame Mirrorless (ignoring the burden to lug it around :LOL: )I would likely buy the top end Sony model...............I have seen some lovely results from that system

PS edit ~ posted at the same time as @Tommyphoto9826 Michael

PPS Michael, if you are finding the camera is mis-behaving under a controlled test it is maybe time to get it looked at and repaired...............is the 5D2 still serviceable from the point of view of economic repair and/or parts availability???

But, again, the way you talk about it above as performing as it should for other non car subjects IMO is very odd and makes me think there is/are other factors at work???
Click to expand...
Good point box Brownie.
I always strive to get it right in camera but still use photoshop in post to tidy up some images. I don't think I'd spend much on it now because she has a massive shutter count. I was thinking about a Sony to be honest.
 
j crossley said:
Sounds to me like you need to learn how to use the camera that you already have. Changing to a mirrorless won’t make any difference.

It reminds me of the guy who phoned BMW complaining that his car had an intermittent fault, and that he could only drive it in the daytime. When BMW asked him what was happening he told them that when he selected “D” for daytime the car would perform as he expected, but when he selected “N” for night it wouldn’t go.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply . I'm know my camera and how to use it. I think there's an intermittent problem somewhere. I'm a freelance photographer for many years. My question was about your opinion on a good mirrorless camera.
 
Tommyphoto9826 said:
Thanks for your reply . I'm know my camera and how to use it. I think there's an intermittent problem somewhere. I'm a freelance photographer for many years. My question was about your opinion on a good mirrorless camera.
Click to expand...
I thought you'd be professional about it and not come out condescending with BMW jokes.
 
I take it my thougths on flickering lights are out ? your problem does sound like anti flicker would fix?
 
If you want to go mirrorless but are keeping the 5D2 then it would make sense to look at Canon's FF mirrorless cameras, purely because you can use your existing lenses on them with one of their adapters. They are both quite keenly priced, the RP especially so. The used values of the R might bomb when the R5 appears, if it ever happens...
 
Tommyphoto9826 said:
Thanks for the reply.
I think I may have put my question to the forum a bit confusing.
I think my 5dii has an intermittent problem going on . I'm a pretty competent photographer when it comes to operating my camera. I generally work in Manual and sometimes AV . Everything could be fine for days and then she'd start kicking up. So my real questing was regarding mirrorless and what's good out there that you guys have used.
Click to expand...
Your post needs to be rephrased as it was quite confusing if this is what you meant. If you’re getting exposure changes in manual it could be the aperture blades sticking in the lens rather than the camera.

regarding choosing a mirrorless camera it really depends on your usage and needs. for static cars you arent going to tax a mirrorless camera from any brand. if you already use canon staying with canon would make sense especially when their DSLR lenses are supposed to work as well as their native mirrorless lenses. there is less hassle staying with canon as you can buy the RP and test the water by adapting your canon lenses. You can use adapted canon lenses on Sony but they won’t work as well as they do on canon mirrorless.

Sony probably lead the full frame market at the moment. That’s only because they have been at it longer. The market leader may change in the future as more manufacturers take up mirrorless.

I saw this guy at the photography show last year. He does automotive photograph. his kit is listed in the link below.

https://www.sony.co.uk/alphauniverse/ambassadors/dominic-fraser

The A7r2 would likdly be good enough for static cars. The A7r3 would have better AF and battery life.
 
won't matter what camera you use if your not competent in how to adjust the settings
when the picture comes out not looking the way you want it
maybe join a camera club or go on you tube for some lessons
 
KIPAX said:
I take it my thougths on flickering lights are out ? your problem does sound like anti flicker would fix?
Click to expand...
Apologies for late reply regarding anti flicker, I'm shooting vehicles outside all the time and it's either sunny or cloudy and I try to do it when I have some nice light with some cloud cover. My 5dii doesn't have that function . But I really appreciate your help
 
holty said:
won't matter what camera you use if your not competent in how to adjust the settings
when the picture comes out not looking the way you want it
maybe join a camera club or go on you tube for some lessons
Click to expand...
You obviously haven't read my comments.
 
a mirrorless camera still need correct settings for the picture to come out correctly exposed
make of camera makes no difference
welcome to the forum
 
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I was just thinking about the shutter count and how old the camera is. Also when did it go in for a service/overhaul? Maybe the camera is getting towards the end of its working life . You don't give that information in your posts which might help.
 
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holty said:
a mirrorless camera still need correct settings for the picture to come out correctly exposed
make of camera makes no difference
Click to expand...
I know my friend. I know how to make a correct exposure. I'd say I've a problem with my camera. The problem is intermittent . I've done a test where I've took 5 shots and changed nothing and and use a tripod and no camera movement and still the odd image would fail.
 
One of my Nikon cameras I could never ever get the colour red correct no matter how I tried. Then I dropped it and it had to go back for some major repair work ( insured luckily). When I got it back perfect no more red colour problems or anything else. I am saying this because yours might want some adjustments to get it ok again
 
holty said:
a mirrorless camera still need correct settings for the picture to come out correctly exposed
make of camera makes no difference
welcome to the forum
Click to expand...

But with mirrrless you can see what the picture will be like before you press the shutter.

I usually don't bother with WB, I usually correct in raw later, but if someone wants to get the exposure and WB pretty much spot on in camera it's a lot easier IMO with morrorless as you see it before you press the shutter. You'll should certainly be able to adjust the WB to make a white wall look white in the EVF unless the lighting is very very unfriendly.

Michael, good luck getting it fixed if it is indeed a camera problem.
 
j crossley said:
It reminds me of the guy who phoned BMW complaining that his car had an intermittent fault, and that he could only drive it in the daytime. When BMW asked him what was happening he told them that when he selected “D” for daytime the car would perform as he expected, but when he selected “N” for night it wouldn’t go.
Click to expand...
WTF does that have to do with anything?
Very Condescending. A great way to welcome a new member.....
 
Tommyphoto9826 said:
I thought this forum would be a good place to ask other photographers their advice on a good mirrorless.
Click to expand...
It is and if you have a wander around the forums you will find specific threads on things like Canon Mirror less. Sony. fuji

Tommyphoto9826 said:
ANY IDEAS
Click to expand...
Buy deleting the first post, doesn't tend to endear you to the rest of the members
Or moderators come to that.

Plenty of information. Just click the links.

Sony

Fuji

Canon M

Canon R
 
Hi Michael,
Welcome to TP.
Not sure why you deleted your first post?
If your camera is faulty, and not worth repairing maybe the time is right to look at a replacement.
I use a Sony A7ii, which is an older model, but produces great results. The newer models have better battery life, and faster af, but these things aren't an issue for me.
Batteries aren't expensive, so I carry a couple of spares, and that would last me all day.
As Alan @woof woof says, mirrorless allows you to see what you're getting before you press the shutter.
Sony lenses aren't cheap though.....:)
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
Hi Michael,
Sony lenses aren't cheap though.....:)
Click to expand...

My answer to almost every question is an old film era prime and in the op's case as he's shooting a static subject, a car, and presumably not with too wide a lens or at too wide an aperture something like a 24mm f2.8 or even better a 28mm f2.8 (they're cheaper) or a 50mm f1.8 may do the job nicely and once stopped down to give good depth should produce good results.

Good quality film era primes in the 24/28/35/50mm sort of range start at under £30 and adapters to enable them to be used on a modern mirrorless camera start at under £10 making it possible to have a nice film era prime mounted on your camera for £30 to £50. This may not be a direction the op wants to go in... but it's a possible way to keep the price of the kit under control.
 
Pretty sure the first post was deleted because it didn't ask the question that needed to be answered. OP- thanks for clearing things up.

I suspect any of the recent crop of FF mirrorless cameras would be fine, and a substantial step up in terms of image quality at higher ISO settings. Probably best to base it around lenses: what they have available in native mount for your work or whether you're willing to adapt your current lenses.
 
Tommyphoto9826 said:
Apologies for late reply regarding anti flicker, I'm shooting vehicles outside all the time and it's either sunny or clou
Click to expand...

Haa car showroom. I just presumed indoors :)
 
Some years ago I went to Beaulieu motor museum with my Nikon D300.
I was taking shots , all indoors, of various cars then checking them out on the screen to make sure they looked OK.
There was a beautiful curvy sports car in a light bone/ivory type of colour.
I could not get this to look right. It became a bit of an obsession.
It came out with subtle variations of cream, white, beige, yellow etc etc. But nothing like the actual colour of the car.
I went through every option in the WB menu, experimented with temperature settings etc but had to give up the end and rely PS.

So my sympathies are with the OP.
And I'm reading with interest other responses.
 
Skypilot said:
Some years ago I went to Beaulieu motor museum with my Nikon D300.
I was taking shots , all indoors, of various cars then checking them out on the screen to make sure they looked OK.
There was a beautiful curvy sports car in a light bone/ivory type of colour.
I could not get this to look right. It became a bit of an obsession.
It came out with subtle variations of cream, white, beige, yellow etc etc. But nothing like the actual colour of the car.
I went through every option in the WB menu, experimented with temperature settings etc but had to give up the end and rely PS.

So my sympathies are with the OP.
And I'm reading with interest other responses.
Click to expand...
The answer to your issue is a custom WB and or a color checker passport.

the answer to the OPs query is that any modern camera can deal with this situation, it’s not very challenging of technology, and if he wants to go mirrorless, either Sony or Canon will enable him to use his lenses perfectly well with an adapter.
 
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