Mirrorless Advice

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So last year I had a massive crisis of faith and decided never to shoot for money again. I chopped in my Canon 5D2 and downgraded to an M3. I love the compact and portable nature of the mirrorless system but I’m finding the M3 isn’t the right camera for me, I want something more capable with cleaner sharper images and better ISO performance with a better lens collection. So my questions to you are:

If I was to clear the decks and start again with a mirrorless system what would you recommend and why?

Is it worth sticking with Canon and upgrading to the M5 and keep the faith their lens selection will improve or buy the EF mount adapter?

I like to shoot close-up and macro, natural portrait photography and some low level action/sports although I’d like to try my hand at Street photography too.

Any advice is appreciated
 
Fuji, Sony or Olympus will all do what you want. You will get lots of opinions largely based on the premise that "What I shoot is the best".

It's widely rumoured that Canikon will be in the mirror less market in a big way before long.

What is best for you is down to personal choice. Find a bricks and mortar shop and go and handle them. Then decide how much you want to spend. Then decide which will give you best value for money.

Unfortunately no one on here can tell you what is best for you. But we all know that Fuji is!!!!
 
If I had to decide, for me it would be between the Sony FE or Fuji X system.
Both offer positive and negatives but are generally accepted as good mirrorless options.

Obviously this will be open to debate, however for me, the full-frame has the edge albeit at a higher price point.

Your budget will have a big factor in which way you go.
You also need to consider size and weight and if you want something smaller.
 
I want something more capable with cleaner sharper images and better ISO performance with a better lens collection

What are you doing with your images ? Where are you viewing them ? If just viewing on a screen or printing up to A2 then I dare say you're not going to notice a difference in IQ across the systems. ISO performance affects this, but I'm happy with my m4/3 camera being able to have good IQ at A3 print size at 3200ISO.

If you want good IQ at A2+ print sizes at extreme ISO, then full frame Sony is probably the only gig in town.
Otherwise I'd go either Panasonic or Olympus m4/3 - it's a mature system with a good lens range; or alternatively Fuji who are building their lens range consistently.
I'd avoid Canon or Sony APS-C who both have sub-par lens ranges.
 
I switched from the 5d mk2 and some L glass to the fuji xt2 and the 16, 56 and 90mm lenses and I am delighted. Image wise I honestly believe it's a step up and light as a feather in comparison.
 
If FF is necessary then Sony is your only choice.
If Aps, then Fuji X is the best bet.

Body sizes and weight are much of a muchness with Sony slightly greater, though it would be best to have a feel of them before you decide.
Fuji has mostly smaller and lighter lenses but of supreme quality.

Up to A3 sizes you will find no significant difference in the quality of results. Though the file sizes will be larger from the Sony.
Either will do what you need perfectly well. Both systems are now used for professional applications, so can cope well for amateur requirements.
 
If you want the best image quality then the Sony A7's or A9 are your best bet, but bodies and lenses work out very expensive. Next level down we have the APS-C sized cameras, Sony A6xxx series, Fuji and Canon M. Sony A6xxx are probably the best allrounders in terms of IQ and AF performance, not including the Fuji XT2 which also has great AF. Fuji do have some odd artefacting which some people see and some people don't Most people don't care, but just be aware that it's there. On the whole Fuji produce lovely cameras, lovely lenses and lovely images.

Next tier down is m4/3. IN theory m4/3 has the worst IQ of all those mentioned. However, in the real world it's not that obvious, even when I compare my EM1 to my D750. Yes there's a difference, but more so at pixel level. High ISO is obviously better on FF, but I can still get usable images at 6400ISO from the EM1 at a push for 'normal' viewing size. M4/3 system is lovely to use, and can be the lightest and smallest package. If you want good AF you need to be looking at the EM1-II or the higher end Panasonics, which aren't exactly cheap.
 
Brilliant responses, definitely given me a starting point and most have been inline with what online lists have suggested. I went to the M3 purely through brand loyalty but it’s helped me see what I would prefer. Budget will depend on what I can sell my M3 kit and my last 50 mm Macro & 430ex for plus some extra as a birthday present from my partner but that should be enough to get me started on the right path.
 
Brilliant responses, definitely given me a starting point and most have been inline with what online lists have suggested. I went to the M3 purely through brand loyalty but it’s helped me see what I would prefer. Budget will depend on what I can sell my M3 kit and my last 50 mm Macro & 430ex for plus some extra as a birthday present from my partner but that should be enough to get me started on the right path.

I settled on a Fuji XE2 with 18 55 from the fuji refurbished store. I will keep the lens even if I am tempted to upgrade the body in the future. It would have been no problem to pay cash for any of the fuji range, but the size and quality of the XE2 suited what I needed for general use.
I still have a fuji X30 as a semi pocket walk about camera. And my old canon dslr in storage, as well as numerous smaller digital cameras and old film cameras. I tend to hang on to stuff....
 
I have two, Sony A7 and Panasonic GX80.

I like FF because I can use old film era lenses at their intended FoV and I also like pixel peeping the quality :D but in reality my MFT GX80 is very probably good enough and it has the advantages of small lenses which are good from wide open and it's a very fast and responsive camera.

If pixel peeping can be avoided I'd say that anything from MFT and up to FF is very probable good enough these days and maybe 1" cameras too.

Dunno what to suggest for the OP but in his place I'd try and decide what quality is required and then read up on the options. If FF is required then the only options are Sony and Leica but if APS-C from Sony or Fuji or MFT from Olympus or Panasonic are options there's more to think about, and there's mini SLR and RF style cameras to choose from too and the small FF Sony RX1 fixed lens camera.
 
Your problem is going to be. Will any of these systems match my 5d2. I would look at getting real short list and renting. That way you can see the way these systems are for you
 
Your problem is going to be. Will any of these systems match my 5d2. I would look at getting real short list and renting. That way you can see the way these systems are for you

My recent wedding was shot with a 5DII and looking at the raws/files image quality wise I think that even a modern MFT is very possibly a match, maybe better, maybe.
 
Your problem is going to be. Will any of these systems match my 5d2. I would look at getting real short list and renting. That way you can see the way these systems are for you
My xt2 files are better than my old 5d mk2 at base ISO although I couldn't compare them at 6400 because I'd need to have be on glue to consider using the canon at that setting !!! The fuji I will use at 6400 without hesitation.

The only thing the canon wins at was depth of field. That's it.
 
Take a trip to a decent shop and try some cameras and see how they handle.

About the only reason to stick with canon is for macro and the MP-E 65mm f2.8 but then its not an easy lens to use apparently the E does stand for extreme though. Having said that all systems will do macro and even a comapct can be used.

Having said that Canon has a long way to go with mirrorless and Nikon needs to start really.
 
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I can see me touring as many camera shops within a two hour radius as I can over the next few weeks, I guess I’ll have to figure out what I can sell my kit for too as that will be a large part of my budget
 
I can see me touring as many camera shops within a two hour radius as I can over the next few weeks, I guess I’ll have to figure out what I can sell my kit for too as that will be a large part of my budget
Save yourself a bundle of money, I recently bought a m3 and initially I wasn’t impressed with it ,but reading a few online reports I invested in a canon 55-250 is STM Lens and a meike adaptor lens £95 used. Adaptor £24 new . It has completely transformed the i.q of the camera . I bought the camera to use for macro and it’s performing well at that with a sigma 150 os macro . The only upgrade I will be thinking about is getting a delkin 3 inch pop up sunshade and a possible future upgrade to a m6 .selling up and buying another system will get you nowhere fast
 
The Sony A7 trumps the 5D2 imo

But even the A7 with a 85/1.8 & then some old manual closeup/macro glass is going to set you back a grand I expect.
 
I began my journey in digital photography with the Sony A6000.
With the 3 lenses I got for it, the 12mm f/2 samyang, the 24mm f/1,8 sony/zeiss and the
60mm f/2,8 sigma its a very light and compact kit. To the only downside is the menu based operation of the camera and the lack of faster portrait teles in the 60-70mm area. While I really dig the size, weight and image quality of a kit I literally takes with me anywhere I'm now looking into fuji X-T2 which seems rather bulky and heavy in comparison + it's a way different price tack.
 
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As I’ve tried to explain above your coming at the problem from the wrong angle ,you should be thinking how can I improve the eos.m rather than jumping ship (1) possibly a m5 or m6 would give better A/f the former would a viewfinder both have faster burst rates to ,(2) look into lenses more deeply the 22mm is highly rated (3) ,get a adaptor to fit standard lenses or even film era manual focus lenses depending on use .as I said before jumping brands will just hit your pocket hard
 
how can I improve the eos.m rather than jumping ship
That's easy to answer, the way the Eos M can be improved is if Canon discontinued it. It's no real match for the Fuji's and Sony's out there. :D
 
Try the Olympus OMD E-M 1 mkii on a try before you buy test nothing lost if you do not get on with it.
 
I’m a year into M-3 ownership with M lenses and EF lenses at my disposal via an adapter. Jumping ship may be a costly exercise but it’s worth it if I can get the quality of images I want in a body size I prefer. From what I can see from first hand experience is that Canon have a hell of a long way to go with their Mirrorless offering.
 
From what I can see from first hand experience is that Canon have a hell of a long way to go with their Mirrorless offering.
There’s a huge difference in IQ between the M3 and the M5/6. But obviously it’s not up to Sony FF levels.
The question is always ‘what’s good enough?’
The M5 is good enough for everything I do, but I still prefer a DSLR for when I have to deliver (for now) but that could change with the next generation.

It was the M5 that moved my mirrorless journey back from Fuji, because it was ‘good enough’.

There’s no perfect camera, we just make judgement calls on our priorities.
 
You really need to get out around the dealers and try to handle as many mirrorless bodies as possible I kicked off my mirrorless adventure with a Canon.m and a couple of lenses plus adapter for ef lenses.
I then decided on a Fuji as I've always had a fondness dating back to my early says of digital I purchased new a X1pro and two primes at a silly price new and have added numerous other bodies primes and zooms but health issues didn't help and it looked like IBIS wasn't going to be part of Fujifilm future although I had made numerous request to them.
So I dipped my toe last year into 4/3 with a Olympus OMD-em5 II and a 17mm f2.8 m Zuiko and then added the m.45mm f1.8 Zuiko.
I was really impressed with the IBIS and have slowly added more primes and a couple of LUMIX zooms throw in a Godox TT350 and I have a lovely lightweight portable system(y)
Happy camper or what ?
Then Fuji went and announced the XH1 :( so I tradede in my Sigma HSM 800mm 5.6 prime at the photography show and got the XH1 hoping it would fulfill my needs to get the best from my fabulous Fujinon glass.
You say you enjoy macro and portrait photography what I can say is Olympus have a couple of really nice macro lenses the 30mm f3.5 and a cracking 60mm f2.8 macro that would be ideal in meeting your needs if you decide that it's the system for you ?
I would take a look though at the Canon m5/6 or m50 first as your already into that system and sadly tradeing in gear can lead to a large financial outlay and losses :(
 
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While I really dig the size, weight and image quality of a kit I literally takes with me anywhere I'm now looking into fuji X-T2 which seems rather bulky and heavy in comparison + it's a way different price tack.
Any reason why the XT2 in particular? Something like the XE3, which has the same sensor as the XT2, would seem more in line with your current size of set up.
 
The question is always ‘what’s good enough?’

Threads like this always end the same. The OP doesn't state what he or she wants to do with the images, and a gear head will come in and recommend something usually inappropriate.

If you're a gear head pixel peeper and #buyer, that's fine. Buy what makes you happy.
But let's be honest here, if you're just putting the photos on Instagram/Flickr or printing 6x4 than a iPhone is fine if you're happy with the fixed focal length. Anything else is overkill.
For the majority of us outside of niche uses anything from the past 10 years can take a good photo up to A3 print size.
 
Threads like this may always end the same but it’s also given me a baseline on where to draft a short list and seeing as it was my question it’s up to me to decide whether or not I’m satisfied with the responses given, is the point of the forum not to give us a place to ask questions after all!
 
This was a thread that got me thinking and wondering ,and this week after a lot of mulling things over ,reading ,viewing Flickr profiles etc I dumped all my big full frame canon gear and invested in a Panasonic G80 and 12-60 plus 100-400 lenses ,mainly due to weight but also in i.q .up to now it looks like a good move ..I have still kept my M3 with 55-250 lens as I like that combo. Till you really look at what’s out there and then go W.T.F has stopped me changing before you don’t realise how much things have changed and how quickly ,so thanks for this thread
 
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Any reason why the XT2 in particular? Something like the XE3, which has the same sensor as the XT2, would seem more in line with your current size of set up.
With the A6000 i had more tilted horizons than with previous cameras and I blamed the position of the finder. (maybe not)
Anyway I wanted a centered finder (dslr style) + the button/knob layout appealed more to me. I don't find specs will do much for my photography so I tend to choose by heart not by brains from the filosophy the fun of photography is more than the tech and I'll shoot more when it's fun.
 
With some of these cameras you can have an in view/on screen level so tilted horizons could be a thing of the past.

Sadly my Sony A7 only allows the level or histogram but not both, my Panasonic GX80 allows both at the same time.
 
With the A6000 i had more tilted horizons than with previous cameras and I blamed the position of the finder. (maybe not)
Anyway I wanted a centered finder (dslr style) + the button/knob layout appealed more to me. I don't find specs will do much for my photography so I tend to choose by heart not by brains from the filosophy the fun of photography is more than the tech and I'll shoot more when it's fun.
That makes sense, but if you're own words to describe the XT2 are bulky and heavy why look at that one? How about the XT20, for example?
 
That makes sense, but if you're own words to describe the XT2 are bulky and heavy why look at that one? How about the XT20, for example?
In comparison to the A6000 that is. Looked at the X-T20 and likes it but i like the X-T2 more. The 20 has a smaller finder than the 2, feels a little more difficult to use with glasses.
 
With some of these cameras you can have an in view/on screen level so tilted horizons could be a thing of the past.

Sadly my Sony A7 only allows the level or histogram but not both, my Panasonic GX80 allows both at the same time.
Yes indeed. The A6300 has it.
 
Just wanted to update to say that I crashed my car - nothing serious and no dramas however a replacement car has seriously wiped out the bank account so I’m going to have to put up and shut up for a while but on the plus side, it gives me more time to get out and man handle different systems
 
I had the M5. Lovely camera. Loved it. But... if you’re adapting EF lenses on it wow is it unbalanced.

In the end I made the move from canon to Sony and I’m very happy I did. Depending on budget of course - there should be a Sony model to suit pretty much any.
 
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