Mirrorless help appreciated.

Messages
28
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
No
#1
Hi. I'm really new to photography and I bought an old Sony a350 to start out and it only cost £110 and is in great working order. But I am really wanting to upgrade and also get a mirrorless camera.

I have a budget of around £800 for a camera with a lens, or less for just the body and I can put the extra towards a decent lens.

I've been looking at:
Sony a6300
Canon M50 and M5
Fujifilm xt-20 and xt-2
And quite a few more.

I'm not a vlogger and the video part isn't as important as the pictures. Mostly I will use it when hiking, walking, traveling, riding my MTB to places and some portrait shots/city shots. Basically an all rounder.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Last edited:
Messages
4,207
Name
Richard
Edit My Images
No
#2
I guess on the Nikon T-20 and 2 you mean Fuji and if so I would recommend the X-T20 for your consideration,it is light,smallish and with wonderful IQ.

Also Fuji shop doing combo refurbished with the XF 18-55mm lens and that is a top performer for £699.00. Everything is marked OOS at the moment they have a site problem that they are trying to overcome,should not be to long. I am waiting to order something as well. :)

https://shop.fujifilm.co.uk/digital...fujifilm-x-t20-kit-xf18-55mm-lens-refurbished
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Marshall82
Messages
28
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
No
#3
Yes, I meant Fuji, sorry. And what is their range of lenses for mirrorless like? The next camera I buy I want to stick with the same brand for ease of use, or until I am fully confident with photography in general.

I've read reviews of that model and it does seem like a pretty good all round camera, although, most of the others get decent reviews, too, and it's a dilemma I'm facing.

I'll check the link just now - thanks.
 
Messages
1,332
Name
Soeren
Edit My Images
Yes
#4
Plenty

https://fujifilm-x.com/global/lenses/

I count 27 covering from 8 to 400mm (600 og 800 taking into account their TC's)
You got fast lenses, compact lenses ( and those f/2s are weathersealed too)
2 macros and so forth
Quality is great
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Marshall82
Messages
28
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
No
#5
Nice. I've been watching some reviews about it just now and even the kit lens seems pretty decent for what it is. Actually, the more I read about this camera the better it is sounding.

Thanks for the information.
 
Last edited:
Messages
11,876
Name
Toni
Edit My Images
No
#6
You could pick up a used Sony A7 & kit lens within your budget, plus an LA-EA4 adapter that would allow you to use you Sony A mount lenses too. The A7 is small and light if that's a consideration, and image quality is good.
 
OP
OP
Marshall82
Messages
28
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
No
#7
I was actually considering the A7 and looking at reviews. I like that it's a full frame, but I'm looking for something a little more user friendly. In the future I'd like a full frame, but not for a while.
 
Messages
11,876
Name
Toni
Edit My Images
No
#8
I was actually considering the A7 and looking at reviews. I like that it's a full frame, but I'm looking for something a little more user friendly. In the future I'd like a full frame, but not for a while.
I tried an original a few weeks back in LCE Leamington - didn't seem bad at all, and quite a bit less complex (and smaller/lighter) than the A7III I bought since. If you have an A6000 then you know Sony menus already. But OTOH if you WANT a different kind/make then by all means go ahead - just don't let that put you off without at least trying one in a dealer.
 

nandbytes

I owe Cobra some bacon
Messages
5,667
Edit My Images
Yes
#9
The next camera I buy I want to stick with the same brand for ease of use
In the future I'd like a full frame, but not for a while.
If you want to stick with the same brand and want to upgrade to FF in future Sony is the only one that offers both APS-C and FF option in the same mirrorless (e-)mount. At the moment anyway...

Fuji - APS-C only, great set of first party lenses but 3rd parties (like sigma, tamron) don't seem keen on supporting it
Sony - APS-C with option of going FF in future. The Sony APS-C lenses kinda suck on the whole, sigma lenses are pretty awesome and so are sony FF lenses.
Canon EOS M - do you really want to move from one dying mount (i.e. a-mount) to another dying mount i.e.EF-M :p

I'd go with either Sony or Fuji. Have look at the lens lineup and go with the brand that provides those lenses for you. Sony does have the added option of FF in future but if that future is very distant I wouldn't bother too much about it tbh.
 
Messages
795
Name
Maarten
Edit My Images
Yes
#11
Messages
6,441
Name
Graham
Edit My Images
No
#12
My main camera is a big brick of a DSLR but for travelling light I have an Olympus E-M5ii. I know a superzoom is not for everyone but I bought an Olympus 14-150ii and E-M5ii combination for this sort of money (a lot less actually as I bought the body used). Bought it entirely for travelling light and not wanting to be messing around with lens swapping when out and about in the hills. Lens and body are weather sealed too which is a huge advantage for me. It's 28-300 equivalent so basically covers everything and the IQ is decent enough for most applications. Very effective IBIS makes it excellent in certain low light situations (unless something is moving) and the whole package is very small and light given the range it offers. What I love about the M4/3 system (and this applies to Fuji as well) is that once you're bought in, there are some genuinely special lenses that you can move onto if the mood takes. Does an okay job of video too. On the downsides I wish is had USB charging and Sony and Fuji do a better job of tracking moving subjects.
 
Messages
11,105
Name
Rich
Edit My Images
Yes
#13
Another travelling light m4/3 convert here, sounds ideal for your purposes
My current camera is a rangefinder style Panasonic GX9, 20mp, small, light, IBIS and charges from usb.
Nice range of affordable lenses and can choose from the Olympus range too.
 
Last edited:

nandbytes

I owe Cobra some bacon
Messages
5,667
Edit My Images
Yes
#14
@OP - if you are not interested in purchasing many lenses perhaps consider panasonic LX100ii. Great little camera.
I have taken quite a liking to some panasonic gear (but mostly prefer olympus lenses)
Obviously they all have pros and cons but if you are not going to buy more than a zoom or kit lens consider the LX100ii.
 
Messages
11,651
Name
Keith
Edit My Images
No
#15
Hi. I'm really new to photography and I bought an old Sony a350 to start out and it only cost £110 and is in great working order. But I am really wanting to upgrade and also get a mirrorless camera.

I have a budget of around £800 for a camera with a lens, or less for just the body and I can put the extra towards a decent lens.

I've been looking at:
Sony a6300
Canon M50 and M5
Nikon t-20 and 2
And quite a few more.

I'm not a vlogger and the video part isn't as important as the pictures. Mostly I will use it when hiking, walking, traveling, riding my MTB to places and some portrait shots/city shots. Basically an all rounder.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
You've got to also consider M43, as others have recommended. The perfect travel system, plenty of neat and tidy light-weight camera with even lighter lenses to match. With something like the Panasonic Gx80 or the Olympus Omd em-10 mkII [actually better built than the III] you get a great all-rounder camera with as good as any APSC system image quality in good light, IBIS for landscape in lower light where you don't want to carry about a tripod and you could pair up with neat lenses like the excellent Panasonic 12-60 kit lens. If you need more reach add the 45-150, also a tiny lens! and cheap as chips. Add in a nice prime for low light situations, like a 25mm 1.7 - You can get all of this well within your budget if you don't mind buying used.

Looking at used prices on MPB:
Panasonic Gx80 - £224
Panasonic 12-60 f/3.5-5.6 - £189
Panasonic 45-150 f/4-5.6 - £104
Panasonic 25mm f/1.7 - can be had for less than £150 brand new.

The whole set up would fit in a small messenger back and weighs only 1118g
 
Messages
649
Name
Leroy
Edit My Images
Yes
#16
I’d go the Fuji x-t2, even x-t1 route, the prices have dropped considerably since the x-t3 came out. You can pickup up a used x-t2 for around £500 and £300 for the x-t1. Leaving enough for a lens.
 
OP
OP
Marshall82
Messages
28
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
No
#17
Hey. Sorry, I've been working a lot and haven't had much time to reply. I've looked at the M4/3 and smaller sized mirrorless cameras too. I'll reply to everyone as soon as I can tomorrow as I'm just finished another 14 hour shift. I'll make sure to have a look at all suggestions and do a little more studying up and get back to everyone. Thanks for all the input so far :)
 
OP
OP
Marshall82
Messages
28
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
No
#18
I’d go the Fuji x-t2, even x-t1 route
I was thinking of the xt-2, but being relatively new, or really new to cameras I think the xt-20 will be better for my skill level, as I've read and seen that it's more noob friendly, but that's just what I've seen.
 
OP
OP
Marshall82
Messages
28
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
No
#19
You've got to also consider M43
It does seem like quite a popular travel camera and I'm looking it up just now. To be honest, I already regret buying the Sony a350. I've still to buy a laptop (this month), and the live screen on the Sony, with it being really old, is pretty crap, so all the details are very pixelated and again... crap. Plus the old flash cards and battery life etc... Also, the ease of use of a much newer Fujifilm and similar seems a lot more appealing and obviously up to date. I think I'm going to put the Sony up on eBay and try and get my money back.
 
Messages
11,876
Name
Toni
Edit My Images
No
#21
Also, the ease of use of a much newer Fujifilm and similar seems a lot more appealing and obviously up to date
I very much doubt any modern camera will be easier to use than the A350, other than possibly having 2 control wheels instead of 1. That Sony was probably a good starting point, capable of taking decent images in most conditions.
 
Messages
11,651
Name
Keith
Edit My Images
No
#22
It does seem like quite a popular travel camera and I'm looking it up just now. To be honest, I already regret buying the Sony a350. I've still to buy a laptop (this month), and the live screen on the Sony, with it being really old, is pretty crap, so all the details are very pixelated and again... crap. Plus the old flash cards and battery life etc... Also, the ease of use of a much newer Fujifilm and similar seems a lot more appealing and obviously up to date. I think I'm going to put the Sony up on eBay and try and get my money back.
I used Fuji cameras for 2 years, I don't get the whole ease of use thing abut them that people immediately jump to. Sure, they have specific dials for ISO and exp comp, but tbh, using front and back control wheels on other cameras is no more complex. When I do use exp comp I set it much the same no matter the mod, I think it's actually a waste of space on Fuji bodies, some might use it a lot but I found I barely ever touched it, but I shoot in manual mode mostly.
 
OP
OP
Marshall82
Messages
28
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
No
#24
but I shoot in manual mode mostly
I'm nowhere near manual mode skill level yet :) I'm totally new to DSLR and actual cameras in general. But my DSLR isn't ideal for a lot of the things i do due to size etc. I'm still getting to grips with the Sony and I'm know it's a decent enough camera to start with, and I will practice a lot with it, but I also need something smaller and if I'm going to buy another camera, then I'd like to get something modern, compact (that still uses zoom lens if needed), and of good quality for photos over video.
 
Messages
15,029
Edit My Images
No
#25
I very much doubt any modern camera will be easier to use than the A350, other than possibly having 2 control wheels instead of 1. That Sony was probably a good starting point, capable of taking decent images in most conditions.
Cameras with features like fast AF in live view and touch screen commands and AF are much easier to use than a camera like the A350.
 
Messages
11,651
Name
Keith
Edit My Images
No
#26
I'm nowhere near manual mode skill level yet :) I'm totally new to DSLR and actual cameras in general. But my DSLR isn't ideal for a lot of the things i do due to size etc. I'm still getting to grips with the Sony and I'm know it's a decent enough camera to start with, and I will practice a lot with it, but I also need something smaller and if I'm going to buy another camera, then I'd like to get something modern, compact (that still uses zoom lens if needed), and of good quality for photos over video.
But even with auto modes I don't think Fuji are any easier to use, but they are well designed and are very good quality. Again, it's personal preference when it comes to ergonomics mostly.
 
Messages
11,876
Name
Toni
Edit My Images
No
#27
Cameras with features like fast AF in live view and touch screen commands and AF are much easier to use than a camera like the A350.
Apart from the phone I've never used a touchscreen on a camera and never seen the need, and likewise AF in live view on the rear screen. I take the OPs point about a modern camera, but for me that would be because the A350 sensor is old more than anything. I still shoot with an ancient IR converted D70 occasionally, and it's not lacking in terms of handling or AF, although the sensor sucks.
 
Messages
11,651
Name
Keith
Edit My Images
No
#28
Touchscreen is great on cameras, I never thought I needed it until I bought a camera that had the option. I use it for everything - scrolling the menus, changing AF point, flicking through image previews, pinch zooming to check detail, deleting images etc ... I'd find it hard to get used to going without if I were to change cameras. I'm sure it would pass, I mean I used cameras without this feature for 20 years or so previous. But I like to have the option. I'm surprised Fuji didn't implement better touch functionality on their latest models, I think it's only for changing AF atm? But even that is nice to have, it is the fastest way bar non to quickly change your AF point. I've noticed in reviews there is a bit of lag on Fuji touch screens, there is zero with Panasonic, it's instant, as good as any high end phone does it
 
Last edited:
Messages
15,029
Edit My Images
No
#29
Apart from the phone I've never used a touchscreen on a camera and never seen the need, and likewise AF in live view on the rear screen. I take the OPs point about a modern camera, but for me that would be because the A350 sensor is old more than anything. I still shoot with an ancient IR converted D70 occasionally, and it's not lacking in terms of handling or AF, although the sensor sucks.
So you can't understand how those things make shooting, especially for a beginner much easier.
 
Messages
11,105
Name
Rich
Edit My Images
Yes
#34
I would think that touch screens make everything simpler tbh.
Unless you're like me and your fingers won't work the bloody things :)
Think it might be the Reynauds that causes the problem, not much feeling or blood/heat in my fingertips.
 
Last edited:
Messages
1,137
Name
Redsnappa
Edit My Images
No
#35
Hi Marshall82

What all the people who responded are not telling you is that all the cameras you list are really good cameras, all will work really well for the type of interests you wish to use it for and which ever you buy you will be very pleased with the image quality.

I have very recently bought one of the cameras on your list and I am extremely pleased with the image quality and it's ergonomics, it fits the way I work. It would incredibly daft for me to for me to simply tell you to buy the same camera as I bought as the most important thing about a camera is how it feels in the hand also how the controls work for you. You can get used to a camera that does not really suit but when spending £500-£800 why should you. The only way to choose the camera is to go to a camera shop and get to hold and test every camera on your shortlist.
Don't choose a camera based on how popular it is on this or other photography forum website choose one that fits you and you won't be disappointed.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Marshall82
Messages
28
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
No
#36
all the cameras you list are really good cameras, all will work really well for the type of interests you wish to use it for and which ever you buy you will be very pleased with the image quality.
Thanks. A colleague of mine, a young guy who's only been shooting for a year, has a Lumix G3, and although it's also an older camera, he has taken some really great shots. What I don't like mostly about the a350 is the weight and the digital screen is sub HD, so as a new start I can't really see if there's slight shake or distortion to my pictures.

I am a totally new photographer, but like I said in a previous reply, like mountain biking, if rather start with a modern, decent camera as I know I will be in this for the long run.

I'm taking my daughter into town just shortly, so I'll have a look at some when I'm there.

Thanks for the information, and I do think either of them will take good photos, as long as I can do the work. I just want the best bang for my buck.

Cheers.
 
Messages
11,651
Name
Keith
Edit My Images
No
#37
Unless you're like me and your fingers won't work the bloody things :)
Think it might be the Reynauds that causes the problem, not much feeling or blood/heat in my fingertips.
I find mine works well even with gloves on, but I get that some find them fiddly, some left eye dominant shooters find their nose knocks the AF point out of place, this has never happened to me - I'm right eyed and my nose is always outside of the screen. I use my right thumb to drag the AF point where I want it when looking through the evf. I just can't think of a faster way to change the AF point, I don't think those little joysticks are any better than a D-pad for example.
 
OP
OP
Marshall82
Messages
28
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
No
#38
I would think that touch screens make everything simpler tbh.
I think with technology evolving so much, it's only a matter of time now until touchscreen is standard. Just tried an a6300 and Canon M50 at my local PC World, and neither had any charge in them. I don't have a dedicated camera shops near me either. I liked the feel of both compared to my a350, and I like that the Canon screen comes out to the side and also swivels.
 
Messages
7,146
Name
David
Edit My Images
Yes
#39
if you don't mind buying used.

Looking at used prices on MPB:
Panasonic Gx80 - £224
Panasonic 12-60 f/3.5-5.6 - £189
Panasonic 45-150 f/4-5.6 - £104
Panasonic 25mm f/1.7 - can be had for less than £150 brand new.

The whole set up would fit in a small messenger back and weighs only 1118g
Hey Chris @Marshall82 ... this ^^^ is good advice .... I've got the same .... :cool:



BUT .... I wouldn't rule out the 1 inch sensor if you want to travel light, want a camera that gives you full control, and you don't want to make massive prints.

I had a Canon G7X but managed to lose it, and boy I miss it at times. The more expensive Sony RX100 is the same sort of thing but plus a viewfinder.

My main, most-used, camera now is a GX80, the viewfinder is not great but that's not a problem as I never use it! I like to shoot from waist level using the tilt-up screen, but that method is not for everyone.
 
Last edited:
Messages
11,651
Name
Keith
Edit My Images
No
#40
I think with technology evolving so much, it's only a matter of time now until touchscreen is standard. Just tried an a6300 and Canon M50 at my local PC World, and neither had any charge in them. I don't have a dedicated camera shops near me either. I liked the feel of both compared to my a350, and I like that the Canon screen comes out to the side and also swivels.
The M50 does have an excellent touch screen, as good as the Panasonic ones. I don't get why the others haven't got anything close to them yet. A fully articulating screen is nice at times, but tbh I'd prefer if my G80 had the plain tilt style, I find it more useful for macro especially, it doesn't get in the way like the flip out style. Both are better than a static screen of course
 
Top