missing plane

Byker28i said:
Air France flight 447? Debris was spotted the followign day: The sighted wreckage included “an orange life vest, an aircraft seat, a drum, kerosene and oil,”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/world/europe/03plane.html?_r=0

It took ages for the black boxes to be recovered due to the depth of water
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Exactly. Aircraft making uncontrolled vertical dives into water do not do anything other than be torn apart. Again, hitting water is like hitting concrete at those speeds, the pilot @archangel heard seems to have an overly optimistic view of what happens in such circumstances.
 
The flight recorder emits a signal when it hits water so why no info about that and how come it takes a week for the satellite tracking company based in London to give out the info about it flying for a further 5 hours or so.
Is someone planning to use the Plane and holding the passengers until they do?...how much fuel was on the plane?
It all seems very odd that nobody saw anything, none of the 200 on board noticed something was wrong and turned on/used their mobile phone, have the phone companies checked any records of usage.
All extremely odd!
 
What if you took the plane off course and landed somewhere and told all the passengers they were now in quarantine with some potentially dangerous infection and this information couldn't be spread so all mobiles would be removed/blocked and they'd have to stay holed up wherever they were until they were all proved to be ok?

A 777 is quite large. I'd hide one on an airstrip or air hanger. Hiding it in an airport with a load of other 777s and just hiding the people elsewhere would be another way.
 
srichards said:
What if you took the plane off course and landed somewhere and told all the passengers they were now in quarantine with some potentially dangerous infection and this information couldn't be spread so all mobiles would be removed/blocked and they'd have to stay holed up wherever they were until they were all proved to be ok?

A 777 is quite large. I'd hide one on an airstrip or air hanger. Hiding it in an airport with a load of other 777s and just hiding the people elsewhere would be another way.
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That's the conspiracy theory I mentioned earlier. They were amused by it on the Gralian Report.
 
srichards said:
Hiding it in an airport with a load of other 777s and just hiding the people elsewhere would be another way.
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Aircraft have unique registrations that are very clearly visible in several places on the airframe, it would be extremely easy to pick this particular one out even if it were amongst 100 other 777's. Pretty much every aviation enthusiast and airport worker in the world would be able to pick it out. Even if they changed the registration someone somewhere would almost certainly notice.

Not only that, it's very rare for aircraft like 777's to sit for extended periods not doing anything. A plane on the ground isn't earning the airline any money but it's costing to park it, airlines want their planes flying so if it were sat for a while it would be picked up as being slightly odd and almost certainly attract further attention.
 
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A 777 is quite large. I'd hide one on an airstrip or air hanger. Hiding it in an airport with a load of other 777s and just hiding the people elsewhere would be another way.
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If a 777 turned up at an airport capable of handling it unannounced, from ATC, the airport management, the local police, customs and immigration would all be taking a huge amount of interest.
Air transport doesn't just happen, its highly regulated and the unexpected causes lots of people to ask many questions.
 
Handling and accomodating an off course 777 secretly might be "possible" in the technical sense of the word, but it would require the collusion of hundreds of people, from high ranking state officials through airport/ATC management, right down to ground-staff.
All of whom would need to be trusted not to put a hand up.
 
Bernie174 said:
If a 777 turned up at an airport capable of handling it unannounced, from ATC, the airport management, the local police, customs and immigration would all be taking a huge amount of interest.
Air transport doesn't just happen, its highly regulated and the unexpected causes lots of people to ask many questions.
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Indeed, it would have to have huge state, in fact probably several states, backing to carry that out and certainly is likely to be noted by someone not involved.... mind you, given the [un]timely recent news about Iran and the Lockerbie plane, I guess anything is possible in business of political involvement.... :confused:
 
The BBC are now reporting the Malaysians as saying the plane has been 'commandeered'. It's unclear by whom. The search area seems to cover a large % of the globe.
 
At a cruise speed of 560mph at cruising altitude, it could be anywhere in a 3,920 mile radius as long as it was out of radar range. Further than I would want to run!
 
boyfalldown said:
The BBC are now reporting the Malaysians as saying the plane has been 'commandeered'.
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Why has no one received a phone message from one of the passengers? I think the only explanation for this is a sudden explosion. Anything else would have been reported in some way from the aircraft.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
Why has no one received a phone message from one of the passengers? I think the only explanation for this is a sudden explosion. Anything else would have been reported in some way from the aircraft.


Steve.
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You don't often get a phone signal at 35,000ft. Particularly over the ocean. Or large parts of the asian wilderness.
 
What if........it flew into China's airspace and ignored their requests to identify.......wonder what they'd do...
 
Searchers of the missing Malaysian plane have found the wings.
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Mr & Mrs Wing said they didn't know where the plane is either.
 
Martyn D said:
What if........it flew into China's airspace and ignored their requests to identify.......wonder what they'd do...
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Even if the Chinese decided to shoot down a passenger plane, the plane would be a smoking wreck in a field, and satellites would have seen it by now, not to mention twitter and phone videos making the net.
 
If the Chinese shot it down I'm sure their sworn enemies would also point fingers very quickly.
 
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Wow how sad this thread is people talk of the dead like pawns on a chess board like call of duty.
These are real people, real families grieving, unknown and in agony, such a shame, what no humanity?
 
Mr Bump said:
Wow how sad this thread is people talk of the dead like pawns on a chess board like call of duty.
These are real people, real families grieving, unknown and in agony, such a shame, what no humanity?
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I think you are being a little disingenuous, I don't think anyone that has posted in this thread wants anything other than all these people to be found safe and well and has nothing but the utmost sympathy for the relatives and friends of those people, but like the rest of the world, speculation about possible events is inevitable.

This article makes interesting reading ref the politics in Malaysia

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...pported_anwar_ibrahim_was_he_a_terrorist.html
 
probably not with 777s
 
It seems to me that the more we learn about this, the less we know.

All that we actually know is that 239 people are missing and are very likely to be dead. There is no closure for their relatives, and every one of the crew and passengers is a possible suspect. I especially feel for the relatives of the innocent crew members (it may or may not be the case that one or more of them aren't innocent, but some must be unless whatever happened was a massive conspiracy).

If we can learn anything at all from this, it must be that the human race, for all its technology and watchfulness, isn't as good at watching for unidentified aircraft in their airspace as it thinks it is. What chance then of picking up an incoming missile or attacking aircraft if they can't even pick up a (relatively) slow moving civilian aircraft?
 
removed - not the place
 
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If we can learn anything at all from this, it must be that the human race, for all its technology and watchfulness, isn't as good at watching for unidentified aircraft in their airspace as it thinks it is. What chance then of picking up an incoming missile or attacking aircraft if they can't even pick up a (relatively) slow moving civilian aircraft?
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Different scenario, different defence against it. Malaysia isn't really under much threat of air attack, and therefore probably isn't that geared up for it, if there's no need to spend cash, Governments don't.

Other Countries have it different, the UK for example is under threat, and there are defences and kit in place to detect that threat, and thats been the case since just before WW2. We invented fighter control and the systems used by most of the world because of that coming storm. Also, being reasonably small, we don't now need 100's of fighters stood ready to go, and radar coverage is good over the whole country. Mind you, although we would possibly detect an incoming missile, depending on what sort, we cannot do anything about it!
The US is slightly different, until 9/11, in their world terrorism didn't exist, therefore they only looked outside their borders for a WW3 style attack, attack from inside wasn't considered, until it happened of course.
 
firefly rapier (or the naval equivalent) could probably shoot down a scud or other missiles of that ilk - if it was an ICBM we'd be toast though - I agree about planes though , the main difference is that the plane was out in the middle of no where it wasn't screaming into a nation states airspace
 
There is not really a lot of fact being revealed about this incident. Plenty of conjecture, but not a great deal else. Unless some evidence in the form of wreckage appears then nothing short of mystery remains.
The media, today, are jumping upon the last radio transmission as having come from the copilot. So what ....... co-pilots routinely handle radio procedures.
 
arclight said:
There is not really a lot of fact being revealed about this incident. Plenty of conjecture, but not a great deal else. Unless some evidence in the form of wreckage appears then nothing short of mystery remains.
The media, today, are jumping upon the last radio transmission as having come from the copilot. So what ....... co-pilots routinely handle radio procedures.
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I think the media are jumping on it because it was made after the transponder was switched off therefore, presumably, after the "incident", whatever it was, was under way.
 
ghoti said:
I think the media are jumping on it because it was made after the transponder was switched off therefore, presumably, after the "incident", whatever it was, was under way.
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Actually, they are saying that they now don't know if the transponder was turned off [they being the Malaysians in the press conference] - the last ACARS signal was received at 1.07, the next was due 30 mins later and never happened, the verbal communication time has been changed to 1.19, so all they know is transponder was deactivated sometime between 1.07 and 1.37 and they don't know if it was on or off during the radio contact at 1.19.
They have also confirmed the aircraft had enough fuel for about 5 hours flight, which has given a search area, when combined with the satellite pings area, of some 10000000 square miles, much of it very deep ocean.... good luck with that :eek:

Having said all that, there has so much misinformation, contradiction, changes, etc, that even the latest information could turn out to be totally wrong tomorrow.
 
So basically known facts

a) the plane is missing

ummm that's it
 
I heard one of the relatives on the radio going on about how he knows his brother is alive and he's probably building shelters on a desert island or making rafts out of wreckage or some such...now I know its harsh , but that kind of delusion isn't healthy - if it crashed, everyone is dead, if it was taken chances are everyone is dead. Seeing survivors turn up from this will be a miracle up their with loaves and fishes
 
big soft moose said:
I heard one of the relatives on the radio going on about how he knows his brother is alive and he's probably building shelters on a desert island or making rafts out of wreckage or some such...now I know its harsh , but that kind of delusion isn't healthy - if it crashed, everyone is dead, if it was taken chances are everyone is dead. Seeing survivors turn up from this will be a miracle up their with loaves and fishes
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yes, but hope really does spring eternal, and lets be honest here, if it was you, me, any of us, we would be clinging on to that thin shred of hope in our hearts, no matter what our heads [or trained psychologists/counselors] were telling us, with everything we had. They have gone from utter despair assuming it had crashed, to hang on a sec, we don't know and it might actually have landed somewhere - that kind of thing does awful things to the mind.
 
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big soft moose said:
So basically known facts

a) the plane is missing

ummm that's it
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An aircraft, with a crew and a large number of passengers, yes. Lots of speculation, conjecture and 'what if' scenarios, which is to be expected. I suspect that various governments and their intelligence agencies do know more about it than they're revealing, but there's nothing surprising about that.
 
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