MPB sponsored competition, with exciting prizes.

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Has no one entered yet, or are all the images whisked away as soon as they are posted, and stored next to the frozen mice? :p
 
Pound Coin said:
Has no one entered yet, or are all the images whisked away as soon as they are posted, and stored next to the frozen mice? :p
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I intend to enter but rather than enter at the first opportunity I will see what opportunities arise before the closing date and enter the one I like best. :)
(Frozen mice conversations are banned! ;) ).
 

Andrew Moore said:
I’ll not be joining now
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gramps said:
I don’t see why all the angst, it’s simple, enter if you want to, don’t if you don’t. :thinking:
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Absolutely, and as he is not entering there is no point in him posting in this thread any longer.
:wave:

Pound Coin said:
Has no one entered yet, or are all the images whisked away as soon as they are posted, and stored next to the frozen mice? :p
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:LOL:
As its a month long competition I'm sure people are biding their time going for the best possible entry.
 
Andrew Moore said:
I think for me it’s a sign that perhaps all social media and forms of connecting need to be cut off for a while for myself at least
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I can help with that, I'll try this thread first ...
 
Why on earth is it that every single time we announce a competition (outside the film and conventional area) there's always more people looking for a catch, for an angle, or for someone taking an advantage of them for simply posting a photograph...

Believe it or not, it IS possible that companies just want to put something back into this forum, the same as some of us members...

Okay, I guess some of us that have been involved in running (say) the POTY competitions here might have anticipated that there'd be questions about submissions and so forth - but as far as worrying about a "rights grab" or "market research" or such like, I think it's a little insulting frankly...

This "loose" format in terms of rules and entries works perfectly well in the film section, which I'm sure that at least two of the co-owners thought that it'd work out in the general populace as well. Maybe we should all just calm down, smile a little more, go out and take some photo's (and BTS/pullback images) and just enjoy photography a little more.

Of course, if you've queries about particular issues, that are on your mind because of more regimented competitions, then by all means ask... but be aware that like this forum, it's a FREE competition, stop examining the teeth on this horse...
 
TheBigYin said:
Believe it or not, it IS possible that companies just want to put something back into this forum, the same as some of us members...
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Absolutely, good post Mark (y)

TheBigYin said:
I'm sure that at least two of the co-owners thought that it'd work out in the general populace as well.
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There has been quite a lot of discussion behind the scenes, making sure we got the format right, and yes it was a unanimous decision to go with this,
along with Jamil's approval.
 
TheBigYin said:
Why on earth is it that every single time we announce a competition (outside the film and conventional area) there's always more people looking for a catch, for an angle, or for someone taking an advantage of them for simply posting a photograph...

Believe it or not, it IS possible that companies just want to put something back into this forum, the same as some of us members...

Okay, I guess some of us that have been involved in running (say) the POTY competitions here might have anticipated that there'd be questions about submissions and so forth - but as far as worrying about a "rights grab" or "market research" or such like, I think it's a little insulting frankly...

This "loose" format in terms of rules and entries works perfectly well in the film section, which I'm sure that at least two of the co-owners thought that it'd work out in the general populace as well. Maybe we should all just calm down, smile a little more, go out and take some photo's (and BTS/pullback images) and just enjoy photography a little more.

Of course, if you've queries about particular issues, that are on your mind because of more regimented competitions, then by all means ask... but be aware that like this forum, it's a FREE competition, stop examining the teeth on this horse...
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So in that case there is no reason why you cannot clearly state in the Rules T&C’s the following.

  • The photographer retains the copyright to the images.
  • There is no rights grab.
  • MPB will not be using any of the images submitted to the competition in any capacity whatsoever.
  • Cleary state the maximum number of entries that can be submitted by a member.

If you don’t clearly state in the rules of the competition what the rules actually are, then how the hell is anyone, apart from yourselves, going to know what the rules are.

Unfortunately, not being as clever as your good selves, having failed my eleven plus, being educated at the dunces school, leaving school without any qualifications, and spending my entire working life packing boxes in a warehouse, I need what might seem obvious to you, making obvious to me.
 
L320Rio said:
So in that case there is no reason why you cannot clearly state in the Rules T&C’s the following.

  • The photographer retains the copyright to the images.
  • There is no rights grab.
  • MPB will not be using any of the images submitted to the competition in any capacity whatsoever.
  • Cleary state the maximum number of entries that can be submitted by a member.

If you don’t clearly state in the rules of the competition what the rules actually are, then how the hell is anyone, apart from yourselves, going to know what the rules are.

Unfortunately, not being as clever as your good selves, having failed my eleven plus, being educated at the dunces school, leaving school without any qualifications, and spending my entire working life packing boxes in a warehouse, I need what might seem obvious to you, making obvious to me.
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But neither MPB nor anyone else are asserting rights over submissions so it’s just the same as any other posting here and entry is not compulsory or conditional.
 
L320Rio said:
So in that case there is no reason why you cannot clearly state in the Rules T&C’s the following.

  • The photographer retains the copyright to the images.
  • There is no rights grab.
  • MPB will not be using any of the images submitted to the competition in any capacity whatsoever.
  • Cleary state the maximum number of entries that can be submitted by a member.

If you don’t clearly state in the rules of the competition what the rules actually are, then how the hell is anyone, apart from yourselves, going to know what the rules are.

Unfortunately, not being as clever as your good selves, having failed my eleven plus, being educated at the dunces school, leaving school without any qualifications, and spending my entire working life packing boxes in a warehouse, I need what might seem obvious to you, making obvious to me.
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First off, we didn't expect anyone to get so precious, and didn't expect to have to post the ins and outs of a ducks arse.
Its no different to any other competition / challenge posted on TP.

Its amazing how peoples minds work when there is a potential prize(s) of £250.
 
This is not a nit picking or argumentative post I hope! But, someone has asked about number of images and I think it’s pretty clearly meant to be one entry per member since the singular was used throughout the instructions and that’s usually the case with competitions generally.

I noticed that the only member who entered (and it was withdrawn) did post 2 images: the entry and a picture of the setup/equipment. That seems commonsensically to be OK to me but perhaps the organisers may wish to comment -- or ignore, I’m happy either way.
 
sphexx said:
I noticed that the only member who entered (and it was withdrawn) did post 2 images: That seems commonsensically to be OK
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That wasn't the problem. The problem was it was taken well outside the times and dates.
As per the rules :-
Add an image of your equipment used at the time and on the day.
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My image was taken in October 2021 - I took a shot of the 645z etc at the time for my followers on Instagram. A lot of folk are interested in the camera - it's quite an unusual body to use etc.

It wasn't obvious to me the images for the competition had to be taken during the dates as per the thread - I inferred anything would do - so long as you posted it within these times.

It's no biggy. If I land a good image between now and closing date I'll enter it - and ensure I take a phone shot of the camera/tripod/filter set up.
 
I have never seen a competition before put so much emphasis on gear.
Therefore not unreasonable to think purveyors of used gear are getting something back for their cash.
If that comment offends so be it, but that was how I saw it.
That was refuted and I believed the word of the person who replied.
The ins and outs of a cats a******e really have been examined so good luck to all who enter.
 
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Cobra said:
That wasn't the problem. The problem was it was taken well outside the times and dates.
As per the rules :-
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I know, I didn’t mean to imply it was so I’m sorry if I’ve added to the apparent confusion about the ‘rules’ here, my point was entirely about the multiple images which I think, as I said, is commonsensical.
 
sphexx said:
I know, I didn’t mean to imply it was so I’m sorry if I’ve added to the apparent confusion about the ‘rules’ here, my point was entirely about the multiple images which I think, as I said, is commonsensical.
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Stop nit-picking. :exit:
 
SFTPhotography said:
My image was taken in October 2021 - I took a shot of the 645z etc at the time for my followers on Instagram. A lot of folk are interested in the camera - it's quite an unusual body to use etc.

It wasn't obvious to me the images for the competition had to be taken during the dates as per the thread - I inferred anything would do - so long as you posted it within these times.

It's no biggy. If I land a good image between now and closing date I'll enter it - and ensure I take a phone shot of the camera/tripod/filter set up.
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Indeed, and I didn’t name you or imply you’d done anything wrong — I wrote “withdrawn” not “taken down” and I thought your image pair were entirely reasonable and in the spirit of the competition.
 
tijuana taxi said:
I have never seen a competition before put so much emphasis on gear.
Therefore not unreasonable to think purveyors of used gear are getting something back for their cash.
If that comment offends so be it, but that was how I saw it.
That was refuted and I believed the word of the person who replied.
The ins and outs of a cats a******e really have been examined so good luck to all who enter.
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It seems blindingly obvious to me that MPB and TP do hope to get something back which might best be described as ”good will” though it seems a bit lacking in this thread which I am sure is not typical of how members view the competition.
 
sphexx said:
It seems blindingly obvious to me that MPB and TP do hope to get something back which might best be described as ”good will” though it seems a bit lacking in this thread which I am sure is not typical of how members view the competition.
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And a lucky person gets £250 to spend at MPB - MPB get a bit of awareness and advertising due to the comp, the forum gets a bit of a lift and everyone wins.

Seems legit to me.
 
SFTPhotography said:
And a lucky person gets £250 to spend at MPB - MPB get a bit of awareness and advertising due to the comp, the forum gets a bit of a lift and everyone wins.

Seems legit to me.
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Absolutely....
You'd think they'd made it compulsory to enter.
Not happy? Don't enter...it really is that simple....
 
Cobra said:
First off, we didn't expect anyone to get so precious, and didn't expect to have to post the ins and outs of a ducks arse.
Its no different to any other competition / challenge posted on TP.

Its amazing how peoples minds work when there is a potential prize(s) of £250.
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Whilst he was a bit of an arse in how he put the point across, it is incredibly important stating the intended future use of the images and any implied licence because, as a commercial entity is involved, it is very different to the competitions usually held here.

For example by posting an image to the competition thread, you are granting an implied licence for TP to publish that image within that thread ONLY.

If MPB (or TP) make any use of the image, other than 'hotlinking' to it on there, then they are creating an infringing copy for which they could be taken to court.

You cannot assume anything in regards to copyright - it has to be laid out in black and white for everyone to understand.
Because without that happening, you have no usage rights at all - and that would be pretty much useless for a commercial entity
who are likely to want some traction from sponsoring the competition, even if it is 'just' on their own social media.

So, yeah, it is actually a pretty big thing.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Absolutely....
You'd think they'd made it compulsory to enter.
Not happy? Don't enter...it really is that simple....
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I think people are kicking off about image rights....and MPB using them.

I sell regularly landscape/travel images and very few get £250 - rights grab etc it's a non issue as even if you get one into a major newspaper (one of my Glasgow one does the rounds in the sun) you don't see £250 for it - even at major UK press level. It's different if you have a shot of a Celeb, Sports event etc but again - doubtful on a forum that's predominately made up of hobbyist shooters and even more doubtful that's what's going to be entered.

A company like MPB, like any other, will buy off Alamy, Getty etc and the photographer isn't seeing £250. There's cheaper ways to get images. Even lots of them.

Portrait pictures are a little different - and a reputable place like MBP isn't going to start using head shots etc without model releases - so again - non issue.

Grab a nice shot, grab a phone shot of the camera, lens etc and see if you get £250.
 
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DemiLion said:
Whilst he was a bit of an arse in how he put the point across, it is incredibly important stating the intended future use of the images and any implied licence because, as a commercial entity is involved, it is very different to the competitions usually held here.

For example by posting an image to the competition thread, you are granting an implied licence for TP to publish that image within that thread ONLY.

If MPB (or TP) make any use of the image, other than 'hotlinking' to it on there, then they are creating an infringing copy for which they could be taken to court.

You cannot assume anything in regards to copyright - it has to be laid out in black and white for everyone to understand.
Because without that happening, you have no usage rights at all - and that would be pretty much useless for a commercial entity
who are likely to want some traction from sponsoring the competition, even if it is 'just' on their own social media.

So, yeah, it is actually a pretty big thing.
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At least I wasn't a rambling bit of an arse
 
SFTPhotography said:
I think people are kicking off about image rights....and MPB using them.

I sell regularly landscape/travel images and very few get £250 - rights grab etc it's a non issue as even if you get one into a major newspaper (one of my Glasgow one does the rounds in the sun) you don't see £250 for it - even at major UK press level. It's different if you have a shot of a Celeb, Sports event etc but again - doubtful on a forum that's predominately made up of hobbyist shooters and even more doubtful that's what's going to be entered.

A company like MPB, like any other, will buy off Alamy, Getty etc and the photographer isn't seeing £250. There's cheaper ways to get images. Even lots of them.

Portrait pictures are a little different - and a reputable place like MBP isn't going to start using head shots etc without model releases - so again - non issue.

Grab a nice shot, grab a phone shot of the camera, lens etc and see if you get £250.
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For someone that claims to be a working photographer, that is incredibly poor (and inaccurate) advice.
 
DemiLion said:
a) I wasn't talking about you

b) That isn't rambling. It is being incredibly precise. If I was rambling on that subject, it'd take up three full pages.
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My apologies and even if it was me I was only joking, always forget to put those happy faces in.
 
DemiLion said:
For someone that claims to be a working photographer, that is incredibly poor (and inaccurate) advice.
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OK - it isn't for my area. Landscape images, even cover shots, newspaper use, book cover use, calendar use, don't fetch £250 any more. MPB might buy an image for a blog, and for web article/blog use they wouldn't have to pay Alamy anything like £250.

FYI you're not granting exclusive use of your image to MPB - it's just a photo competition - and I doubt they have any real use for the images folk would enter - they sell used camera gear and they take pictures of the stock they sell - and that's pretty much it.

Given their position in the photography community I doubt they'd risk the reputational damage of using competition entries for commercial use so again all the fears on this thread just aren't valid.

There was a stink about a BA competition etc and a Rights grab and there was a specific text about reserving the rights to use the entries for commercial use - of which a company like BA would have the use for- but this isn't that.
 
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SFTPhotography said:
OK - it isn't for my area. Landscape images, even cover shots, newspaper use, book cover use, calendar use, don't fetch £250 any more. MPB might buy an image for a blog, and for web article/blog use they wouldn't have to pay Alamy anything like £250.

FYI you're not granting exclusive use of your image to MPB - it's just a photo competition - and I doubt they have any real use for the images folk would enter - they sell used camera gear and they take pictures of the stock they sell - and that's pretty much it.

Given their position in the photography community I doubt they'd risk the reputational damage of using competition entries for commercial use so again all the fears on this thread just aren't valid.

There was a stink about a BA competition etc and a Rights grab and there was a specific text about reserving the rights to use the entries for commercial use - of which a company like BA would have the use for- but this isn't that.
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Yep - you still don't get it.
 
tijuana taxi said:
I have never seen a competition before put so much emphasis on gear.
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MPB sell gear, this is their main interest, on how people use their kit, if it was say a company that sold canvas prints, then of course the focus would be 100% on the image.
Combining both makes for a more interesting challenge.
DemiLion said:
So, yeah, it is actually a pretty big thing.
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Yes we all know how hot you are on people taking images and giving them away for free.
That is NOT what is happening here.
And quite frankly I'm very disappointing at some of the reactions, from some of the members here.
The price to enter is the same as the TP membership fee.
And when @mpb.com read though all this I doubt that they would bother ever offering another TP based competition again :( .
 
Dale. said:
OK, what a hoot. A fun thing with a worthy prize is delving to the depths. Honestly?

Time to drop it and get on with the competition in the spirit it was meant to be . Last chance. ;)
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Dale, I strongly suggest that you and the other mods read my original post and consider amending the original rules appropriately (after a discussion with MPB regarding their needs).
 
Cobra said:
Yes we all know how hot you are on people taking images and giving them away for free.
That is NOT what is happening here.
And quite frankly I'm very disappointing at some of the reactions, from some of the members here.
The price to enter is the same as the TP membership fee.
And when @mpb.com read though all this I doubt that they would bother ever offering another TP based competition again :( .
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I am trying to help you protect your own arse and MPB's when it comes down to it.

I'd expected a more grown up response from you Chris.
 
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