NSFW Mutilated sheep, don't look if easily offended .....

Phil-D

Phil-D

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Looks like we now have our very own 'big cat' roaming the South Pennine moors........or so rumour has it ;)

Around 4 years ago I photographed a Red Stag high on the moors, there had been the odd rumour of one for a couple of years but no proof.....until my photo. It was determined it was probably an escapee from a deer farm around 20 miles away in East Lancashire. Its thought to be still knocking about but no one has ever come forward with another photo. Point I'm making, if an animal like a large Red Stag can be so elusive, who knows what else could be out there.

I've spent many hours walking the moors with binoculars and camera and yet to spot any evidence of a big cat, not even seen any large unusual paw prints in the snow, ..........to say I'm a little sceptical was an understatement .......then I get sent the photo below:thinking:

Apparently the sheep was fine early evening and found half-eaten the next morning. Anyone that's seen the photo admits, it takes a bit of explaining. Any big cat experts on the forum care to comment, all thoughts welcome @Cobra :)

Photo not mine but I have permission to use it on my search for the proof ;)
IMG-20230305-WA0002.jpg
 
I've no idea what a big cat kill looks like but those lines from the neck back look straight. Can a cat do that?

A previous GF of mine lived in a village in County Durham and a coupe of the locals claimed to have seen a big cat. I always had those stories in mind when I walked her Chihuahua but thankfully I never saw a thing.
 
Not an expert but it does not look like an animal did this. The meat seems to have been stripped off the bones too cleanly.
 
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If it is a big cat, I personally hope it keeps itself well hidden as the first thing man will do will be to kill it.

Fair enough it MAY exist and be guilty of the fate of this sheep , however , unlike us, it’s not likely to kill for anything more than for its own survival .

If as the comment above about illegal butchery is true, it would be all too easy to try lay the blame on some wild animal .

Tbh I won’t be at all surprised if the cause of death is proved to have been brought about by man.
 
It's not illegal butchering that is a lamb probably about a month old.
More than one thing has been at it crows probably involved.
 
Phil-D said:
Any big cat experts on the forum care to comment, all thoughts welcome @Cobra :)
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I'm not a big cat expert, but it certainly looks like it's been opened by an animal,
A human wouldn't do that, and the soft parts are long gone, a poacher would have emptied it out, and thrown the innards.

I'd say something large has been at it, and corvids may well have been picking at the bones.
Having said that, the fleece seems, to have been peeled back.
I honestly don't know, there is evidence that it may have been a human, but I wouldn't discount a large cat either...

They are out there, on a regular falconry hunting ground, a few years ago now, not far from me, there were
Large cat footprints in the mud, near a spinney.
I'd never seen them before or after.
 
Thanks for the replies, some interesting comments/thoughts :)

Cobra said:
I'm not a big cat expert,
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Sorry Chris, it was a little 'tongue in cheek' , I was thinking of all them gob shots you've taken:angelic: :D

4wd said:
that is a lamb probably about a month old.
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Definitely not a young lamb. I should've said, this happened in the middle of February, we have no new born lambs round here yet, the local farmers time their lambing for the end of March, beginning of April.

Saying that, it could well be last year's young and under 12 months old, so still classed as a lamb ;)
 
Phil re pic no idea.I chanced on a big cat years and years ago side of a country road it was yards from me.

That night we lodged by fluke with an ex whipsnade big cat keeper.He ID'd my sighting as a lynx, wasn;t at all surprised put it down to a dumped captive..... I've recounted this tale here before.

Bud i was in an MG migit was preddy much at eye level to cat as I passed. after I hit the anchors as it passed in front...............so so close There was no way I'd not seen a big cat. So I'm pragmatic Phil I strongly suspect there are a shed load of hoaxes rumours and all manner of mistakes

By the same token when it's your OWN eyes and a hand full of yards it throws a different slant on big cats in blighty.

In no way do I think we have a breediing population of undiscovered big cats here Phil but dumped captives. provide me with a rational explanation.

Mate I guess they go unseen because simply they are incredibly secretive.....I kinda also muse what kinda of FC level would i neede to make images of them

now there's a skillset buddy. !!

Irony, there a big cat vid doing the rounds from the edge of the Forest of Dean right now ;)

Most of me is a sceptic Phil, but that few yard sighting throws a proper spanner in the works oh and some !!
 
Phil-D said:
Sorry Chris, it was a little 'tongue in cheek' , I was thinking of all them gob shots you've taken:angelic: :D
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PMSL fair point :D
 
I think there are a lot more 'things' out there than we realise. I've had several unexplained sightings over the years, both in my hunting days and now as a wildlife photographer.
I'd said to my wife about one particular sighting that was very brief, definately a cat but miles from any houses or buildings, farms etc. A few weeks later, my wife and I were near the same spot with our dogs at the time and again, a very brief sighting of something black, labrador size and it didn't hang about. As mentioned, miles from human habitation.

We've had large cats trigger our security cameras but in fairness, that could be a trick of the night vision but I remain open minded. We've also had growls, which again could just be coincidence but they were unlike growls I'd heard before.

The truth is out there. ;)
 
My sister is law believes that she saw "the beast of Burford" in the Cotswolds yesterday.
 
Nod said:
Just seen this story on a news feed. Doesn't look much like a large domestic cat to me!

www.express.co.uk

'Big cat' evidence 'overwhelming' in UK as couple capture 'panther'

The couple sent the video to an expert for confirmation.
www.express.co.uk www.express.co.uk
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The video is an old one unrelated to the story. Why they didn't get better footage I don't know but it does appear to be larger than yer average moggy.

The still image could easily be a domestic cat.

I was out the other day and spotted what looked like a black, Labrador size, dog on a field edge. I took a snap so I could zoom in to be sure. It was a domestic cat. When I got closer it was obviously not Lab sized although it was clearly cat-sized in the snap.

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Our eyes can play tricks on our perception of objects' size. The way the moon appears to be larger closer to the horizon than high in the sky, for example. Or how distant cows can confuse naive priests on Craggy Island. :)

I'm not saying big cats aren't out there. A good friend of mine, brought up on a farm, an angler and shooter, reckons he saw one when out after rabbits with his airgun one evening and his terrier went berserk when they went to inspect the hedge gap it had gone through. I have no reason to doubt him. But most reports are utter b*****ks IMO.
 
Ed Sutton said:
I'm not saying big cats aren't out there.
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There used to be a guy, in one of the villages not to far from here, with a private collection. He was forever "losing stuff" obviously he got shut down eventually.
And of course the law changed many years ago, regarding big cats in private collections. I see no reason to think that some of those
didn't get released.
As I've already mentioned I've seen big cat tracks near a large spinney when out hunting (with Birds of Prey)
So there is no doubt in my mind that they are out there.
 
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Here's a thought on the captive ones being released theme.

We've seen it happen with mink, I see them regularly. Why not with big cats or other species? Parakeets too.

Maybe mink are more adapted to our climate and landscape than a big cat would be, granted but I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that our ecosystem could support a big cat, or even several countrywide. Also, if there are breeding pairs, each generation will get more adaptive to our climate/terrain/conditions.

Not forgetting, there are wildcats in Scotland and they used to inhabit the whole country. Admittedly, not 'big' cats in that sense but the point is, we already have wildcats, it's common knowledge and has been for a very long time.

I've heard of sightings locally, although how much of it is truth or just hearsay, I don't know. I've had sightings locally myself but I can't be sure what of. Whatever those animals were, they were completely out of context for the surroundings at the time. I wouldn't expect to see a domestic cat or dog in those areas. I have definately seen a large, black cat on our security cameras, several times this last few years. To be fair though, always in the dead of night, so could be a trick of the eye or the camera night vision.

I don't think we need to stretch our imaginations too far to see the possibilities. As I mentioned earlier, I don't know for sure, either way but I will remain open minded.

:)
 
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Gav-canon said:
People release all sorts, our local wildlife pond has Koi in it :thinking: still our area has history with wildlide release / escape
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There are Red Eared terrapins in at least one of our lakes I don't think people realise how big they get, when they buy them at 10p size :rolleyes:
 
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Cobra said:
There arered eared terrapins in at least one of our lakes I don't think people realise how big they get, when they buy them at 10p size ;rolleyes:
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I think a lot of pet shops need to educate or warn buyers before sale, god knows what can happen with private trading.. one shop I won't mention was selling dwarf caiman, who knows where that could or has lead...
 
Gav-canon said:
Savage at breeding time :oops: :$
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and Houdinis in fur coats, luckily I had a dog that was good and tracking them down, as long as they didn't head up the chimney :oops: :$
 
Gav-canon said:
I think a lot of pet shops need to educate or warn buyers before sale, god knows what can happen with private trading.. one shop I won't mention was selling dwarf caiman, who knows where that could or has lead...
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Totally, :plus1:

I used to be right into fishkeeping, at one point, I had an almost 400 gallon reef tank. Before I went saltwater, I had a passion for big Cichlids and Catfish. I made the mistake one day of buying a Red Tail Catfish (Phractocephalus hemioliopterus) as a tiny, under 3 inch baby. It was eating bloodworm and suchlike at the time. Within a year, it was close to 3 feet and eating whole trout. I had to rehome it as despite having a large aquarium, it wasn't big enough and not fair on the fish. Besides that, when it needed to go( you know, a jobby), it was so much that it polluted the water very quickly, so much so that the filters couldn't cope.

Pet shops should advise these things at the time of purchase but equally, it is also the responsibility of the new owner to research the species before purchase.
 
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Dale. said:
Totally, :plus1:

I used to be right into fishkeeping, at one point, I had an almost 400 gallon reef tank. Before I went saltwater, I had a passion for big Cichlids and Catfish. I made the mistake one day of buying a Red Tail Catfish (Phractocephalus hemioliopterus) as a tiny, under 3 inch baby. It was eating bloodworm and suchlike at the time. Within a year, it was close to 3 feet and eating whole trout. I had to rehome it as despite having a large aquarium, it wasn't big enough and not fair on the fish. Besides that, when it needed to go, it was so much that it polluted the water very quickly, so much so that the filters couldn't cope.

Pet shops should advise these things at the time of purchase but equally, it is also the responsibility of the new owner to research the species before purchase.
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I've seen a few Red Tail Catfish stuck in tiny tanks :( they shouldn't be allowed to trade fast growing large fish, over crowding is another massive issue.

I've had to tell people they need to feed catfish, one couple said they keep dying.. we asked what are you feeding them, the reply was
"nothing they eat the cr*p of the bottom, their bottom feeders"
:headbang::mad:
We kindly told them they need food the same as EVERY LIVING THING!
 
Gremlin said:
and Houdinis in fur coats, luckily I had a dog that was good and tracking them down, as long as they didn't head up the chimney :oops: :$
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I was always amazed the gaps they get through
 
Cheers for the replies, as I already mentioned, some interesting reading (y)

To summaries my thoughts on the local sheep carcass, I don't buy into the butchery theory.

Firstly, I've an advantage, I know the area well. This sheep was a good 15minutes walk from the road with no public footpaths, even though the moor is open access land, that's not common knowledge. If you were going to purposely kill and butcher a sheep, there's plenty more a lot closer to the road, its fairly remote and quiet during the night.

Secondly, I've met some poor butchers in me time but this is rough, it doesn't add up. Would you not gut the sheep, leave the offal and take the sheep to butcher later?, why attempt to do it on a cold blustery remote moorland, at night, in the middle of February?

So my next thought, did whatever eat it, kill it? I suppose we'll never know.

What could've killed it? If its an old lamb around 11 month old a fox maybe? If it's a ewe, I would've thought it was bellied up, would a fox take it down?

My next thought, we have trouble with running dogs for hares on the moor. Experience from my younger days would lead me to believe, a good, well-trained running dog wouldn't entertain a sheep, never mind worry one to death.

So where am I :LOL:.........If what ate it didn't kill it, what ate/mutilated it in only 14 hours. We have Foxes, Badgers, Carrion crows, Raven, Buzzard, all capable of snacking on a sheep carcass but definitely not all together, in the pitch black, in such a short period of time.

I was actually told about the sheep a few days before I saw the photo, I was sceptical, even scoffed a little at the thought of a large cat roaming our moors. After seeing the photo, Googling big cat sightings I've started to wonder, as said above.......who knows what's out there.........I suppose we'll never know :)
 
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