My struggle with the 50D

@Mikeyb
Your photos make me jealous, what lens were you using at the time?
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Hi,

thanks, I was using the Canon 400mm F5.6L in the latest shots.

Mike.


CT said:
I had problems finding it too. Mitch sent me this link and download instructions...

http://web.canon.jp/imaging/dcp/firm...1is/index.html

Scroll to bottom of page and enter this serial no 7816002105

click on i agree and download item 4(DPP).

You have to actually type in the serial no. It wont have it if you cut and paste it.
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Hi C,

saw that mentioned elsewhere too so just downloading it now and will see what difference it makes later (y)

Mike.
 
I'm glad this thread has appeared as I've been experimenting with the way DPP and CS4 handle RAW files. Up until I installed ACR 5.3 I'd have said that DPP wins hands down but 5.3 now allows the Canon RAW profiles to be selected. They're still not quite identical but they certainly improve things in CS4.

Interesting to hear that DPP will apply whatever sharpening you have selected on the in-camera profile.
 
CT said:
Version 3.6.0.0 is intalled - it just overwrites the existing version. The only obvious thing I'm noticing different is adjustment for highlight and shadows under RAW contrast adjustment which could be useful. I don't think that was there before? (In fact it wasn't - I just checked the old version on the other PC.)
.
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I've just been having a play with the highlight and shadow adjustment for RAW images and this new feature seems to give good control of both. The feature is actually long overdue in a RAW editor, but better late than never I suppose. Anyway I reckon this feature alone is worth upgrading to 3.6.0.0.
 
Thanks for sharing the update link CT, I am no expert in this raw field, but am progressing slowly.
 
kaz10 said:
Mike that was a very useful read as i am thinking of upgrading from the 40d to the 50d i noticed that my picture style was set on standard so do you recommend me to change it to neutral
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Hi,

well sort of, in camera sharpening will be fine as long as you don't add too much more in processing as this was what was causing me problems, I now however leave it at neutral and then sharpen once uploaded to the pc.

Mike.
 
mikeyb said:
Hi,

this is a reply that I made on another Forums regarding how I eventually got to the picture that I had posted that finally made me believe in the 50D as a great camera. I know CT had posted earlier about he had to rethink a bit of his handling of the 50D ( we had PM'd back and forth when I was making my mind up about selling my Mark II and buying the 50 ) and I had mentioned to him that I had read that sRAW1 was the way to go with higher ISO's with it's pixel binning method, well that was until we found out about the ALO and HTP settings (y)

Here is my saga......

I have struggled for ages with the 50D, a combination of the small sensor alongside 15mp was always going to be a problem if cropping tightly, and for the first few months of ownership I have often wondered if I had done the right thing in selling the Mark II in order to fund the 50D, and believe me even right up until I produced the Bluetit shots ( click to see it in the Bird section ) it was living on borrowed time.

I normally use Lightroom for PP work as its straight forward to use as I can't get to grips with Photoshop or Paintshop ( a mix of laziness and stupidity I think ), 30 - 60 secs in Lightroom and bang, that's it, done.

However, this didn't work for the 50D, I just couldn't get the pics to look sharp at all, I tried everything, in camera settings, new pp methods, different ISO's, RAW ( which I use exclusively anyway), sRAW1, Jpeg, the list goes on, and having looked back at my 30D and Mark II pics I thought, hell let's just sell the bloody thing and be done with it, but I am not one to give up especially if I think I can beat something.

The one thing that kept telling to keep the 50D was the fact that the power of the 1.6 sensor coupled with the 15mp was able to pull in shots that would have been binned on any other body, I could take shots from further away and still retain fantastic detail, shots looked tremendous on the lcd best I've seen on an camera, but could I get the shots to look the same once PP'd, could I heck! That as what was so frustrating, I knew I was taking great pics but just couldn't get them to process to the same effect on the pc, so I knew the camera was fine it was just me not getting it right. I had to look at my workflow again, originally it was this:

1. Upload to PC via Canon EOS Utility
2. Import into Lightroom 2.0
3. Edit in Lightoom ( usually a bit of exposure adj, black levels, sharpness etc )
4. Run in Neat Image if necessary for NR
5. Frame with Framefun
6. Upload to Smug

Simple really, all done in under 10 minutes per photo from start to finish.

I scoured the net for info on the best method of converting the RAW files and processing the results and after weeks for digging around it seemed to be that Digital Photo Professional was the way to go, I had it installed but had never used it, so once updated to be able to read the 50D RAW files I tried it, made no bloody difference whatsoever But as mentioned before I never give up easily and decided to bite the bullet and try Photoshop AND Paintshop and downloaded trail versions of both, jeez they are soooo complicated compared to Lightroom, still didn't seem to help, probably the main reason was that I didn't know A; what the root of the problem was and B: in not knowing this I just didn't know what to do to correct it.

Then one day last week, the day I took the Bluetit photo actually, I had a thought ( yeah dangerous I know ), I wonder if it has anything to do with my 'in camera' settings, so back to the camera menu I went and changed it all again to pretty much default settings, I also had a go at Micro Adjusting the AF on my Canon 400mm F5.6L lens, which I knew was fairly spot on anyway and plus this wasn't the real problem but I actually set it to +5 just by eye and it does seem to have been sharper since so I have left it at that. I also set the camera to Neutral for Picture Style, somewhere along the way I had it set to Standard which basically gives you an in camera sharpness setting of +3, I had really only set it to that so that the image on the LCD gave me a good approximation of what the final image would look like, and right enough they had looked brilliant, now I was under the impression that even shooting RAW images that all you saw on the LCD was a jpeg conversion of the file with settings in place, right? and that the RAW image itself was going to come out with no settings on it whatsoever and that you would then adjust these out of camera so to speak, Wrong ! The Picture Style setting is embedded in the RAW file too, arrghhh what a diddy, I never knew this, no wonder my images looked crap and noisy, I was adding sharpening 'in camera' AND via Lightroom too therefore overdoing it

What an idiot I thought, let's go back to DPP and try again, ok I imported the shots I took of the Bluetit that day with the following 'in camera' settings:

200 ISO
Daylight AWB
AI Servo
Centre Point AF
Normal Speed Multi Shot
Neutral Picture Style ie: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0

I then adjust the sharpness within DPP to Standard which is +3, a quick check on AWB, and a bit of added Sharpening via the slider to 180 and Saturation to 114 and nothing else. I then converted to Jpeg ( mainly because I couldn't get PSP to read Tiff's ) and imported it into Paintshop Pro and added a little contrast using its own auto setting, then it was onto Neat Image to check Noise of which there was virtually none, woo hoo that was a first for me, I did some anyway on 'default' setting just to really make the background shine a bit and then framed the image within Framefun, the result is the image seen above

My Workflow will now be along these lines:

1. Import Via EOS Utility
2. Process in DPP
3. Adjust in PSP or Lightroom ( doesn't seem to matter as images could be used straight from DPP )
4. Neat Image
5. Frame
6. Upload to Smug

Sorry it has been so long winded a reply but I wanted to give an idea as to the frustration this camera has given me, which at the time was always outweighed by the the pleasure of seeing the images on the LCD, I just ended up being so deflated when I had processed them, I believe this body to be one of the best for wildlife on a reasonable budget and the only way to improve on it would be the same camera in a 1D series body with the 1d AF system, not that the AF on this is a slouch, just wish it had the 45 AF points of the Mark III etc, other than that, it just might be the best wildlife body Canon has so far produced, and by that I mean......

1. The amount of detail picked up is superb
2. Because of 1 you can use images taken at a much greater distance
3. It's a lot lighter than a Pro Series body
4. The AF is their fastest yet on a non Pro series body
5. The 1.6x Factor

Thanks for reading and I hope I haven't bored you I suppose the moral here is don't give up

Mike.
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thanks for the info mikeyb do u have any other info like which other setting you have the 50d set to i am in the same boat :thinking:
 
kaz10 said:
Mike that was a very useful read as i am thinking of upgrading from the 40d to the 50d i noticed that my picture style was set on standard so do you recommend me to change it to neutral
Click to expand...


After following this thread, having had my 50d since October last year, I changed my camera style to neutral. Prior to doing this I was always finding that the shot on the LCD was nothing like the RAW shot as it was downloaded. This made me get very frustrated as I tried to always match what I had seen and liked in the LCD.

Now, I am 100% happier with my setup. A quick tweak in CS3 with the levels (which I have only just discovered) and the pic looks so much better than the original. Maybe this is just deluding me, but I feel that I have benefitted from this lack of constant disapointment and then trying too hard and probably over processing like mad.

Hope that makes sense. It's just another path in my journey that is my beloved 50d :)
 
don't want to distract from the thread but cannon web site isn't showing a update for firmware other than 1.0.3 but Ive been wrong before:shrug:
 
Just found this thread. Can I jump in at a very belated stage and ask if i have my 50D set up right!!!!!????

Quality is set to RAW
White Balance is set to K6000
Colour Space is set to sRGB
Picture style is set to Neutral
C.Fn I = ISO Expansion is set to Off
C.Fn II = Long Exp. Noise reduction is set to off
High ISO speed noise reduction is set to standard
Highlight Tone Priority is set to Disable
Auto Light Optimizer is set to Disable
C.Fn III = Lens drive when af impossible is set to focus search on
lens AF stop button is set to one shot - AI servo
AF point selection method is set to normal
Superimposed display is set to On
AF assist beam is set to Enable
Mirror lock up is set to Disable
AFmicro adjust is set to Disable
C.Fn IV Shutter button AF-On is set to Metering + Af start
AF on/Ae lco is set to Disable
Assign set button is set to Normal
focusing screen is set to Ef-A


Thank you very much for your time..............

Jon
 
SEPkent said:
Just found this thread. Can I jump in at a very belated stage and ask if i have my 50D set up right!!!!!????

Quality is set to RAW
White Balance is set to K6000
Colour Space is set to sRGB
Picture style is set to Neutral
C.Fn I = ISO Expansion is set to Off
C.Fn II = Long Exp. Noise reduction is set to off
High ISO speed noise reduction is set to standard
Highlight Tone Priority is set to Disable
Auto Light Optimizer is set to Disable
C.Fn III = Lens drive when af impossible is set to focus search on
lens AF stop button is set to one shot - AI servo
AF point selection method is set to normal
Superimposed display is set to On
AF assist beam is set to Enable
Mirror lock up is set to Disable
AFmicro adjust is set to Disable
C.Fn IV Shutter button AF-On is set to Metering + Af start
AF on/Ae lco is set to Disable
Assign set button is set to Normal
focusing screen is set to Ef-A


Thank you very much for your time..............

Jon
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Hi Jon,

a bit late perhaps but I think that is pretty much how my 50D is set up, only difference might be that I have micro adjusted my lenses at +4 for my 50mm and +5 for my 400mm, if you know how to do it, then it's well worth it.

As per my OP, then I still from time to time get images that I am less than happy with, however if you can get decent light and fill as much of the frame as you can then this camera is still the best I have used so far, ok you could argue that it's the same for any body, but the 50D with its 15mp's really gives fantastically detailed images.


Mike.
 
Hi,

just thought I'd revive this thread as I am sure it will relate to a lot of the problems that people are having with processing of their 7D shots too.

The ideal scenario for shooting on either the 50D or 7D is to crop as little as possible, I now strive to fill as much of the frame as possible, ( note CT uses a 500mm F4 IS AND his TC's to get as much reach as possible ) and this is the secret to these bodies. Ok, but you might say I bought these bodies so I could crop, however cropping too much just shows up the pixels that are crammed onto a crop sensor, if you want good detailed sharp shots then frame filling is the answer, I've said it before and I'll say it again, my rule of thumb for my 50D and 400mm F5.6 lens is this:

If filling the frame then I can use 800-1600 ISO, if half then it's 400-800, if its only a quarter then I try to go 100-400, ok I know these are all light/shutter speed dependant, but I now know that if I can't get a sharp 'in focus' shot at any of these rules due to light constraints then I simply don't shoot.

Most, if not all of my bird shots displayed in the Bird Forum are taking up a large part of the frame. Put it this way if you watch your HD LCD or Plasma then the picture is brilliant at normal viewing distance but go right up to it and the picture degrades due to seeing the pixels etc so why would you expect your camera sensor to be any different.

Mike.
 
Hi all just to let you no that the preview on the screen is a jpeg preview so if you shoot raw then go home and inport into adobe camera or dpp it will look very flat but if you shoot jpeg in camera then inport into dpp or adobe should look very near to what you saw thanks.
 
beastyboy uk said:
Hi all just to let you no that the preview on the screen is a jpeg preview so if you shoot raw then go home and inport into adobe camera or dpp it will look very flat but if you shoot jpeg in camera then inport into dpp or adobe should look very near to what you saw thanks.
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Good lord.. A bit late to the party..

This thread was started in 2009! Last post was 12 January 2010!!!
 
Ahhh, thread from the dead! Interesting to hear some comments about camera settings transferring in RAW. My experience is that shooting in RAW, copying files manually to PC from the camera and opening in Adobe Camera RAW does NOT transfer any camera settings across. E.g. If I shoot in black and white on the camera, the image is still colour when opened in Adobe. WB settings seem to stick though. This applies to my Canon EOS 5D and 60D.

Edit: Whilst Adobe Camera RAW can't read the settings that DPP can (your own personal in camera settings), Adobe have apparently built in the Canon standard picture styles into Camera RAW and Lightroom and can be accessed from the camera calibration tab (which I think someone else mentioned):

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=30136306
 
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I can relate to the lcd screen pics looking great and the laptop then producing something not as good, i have recently started to use a mac and trial of aperture 3 and found a big improvement.
will check the settings and see if that helps too.
good read even though its a couple of years old.
 
As for noise, process high iso raw images with DPP NOT Photoshop or lightroom as ACR is no where near as good at high iso as the images come out far cleaner!
 
Hi,

just thought I'd bump this for anyone thinking of buying a used 50D.

Mike.
 
Blimey, Holy Thread Revival!

Interestingly, now that I use LR4, this handles the 50d RAW files superbly and with no effort. High ISO image handling and noise handling in general is much easier to handle with LR4 (and presumably LR5), its as if they have caught up with the Canon sensors (albeit a couple of gen' behind)!
 
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odd jim said:
Blimey, Holy Thread Revival!

Interestingly, now that I use LR4, this handles the 50d RAW files superbly and with no effort. High ISO image handling and noise handling in general is much easier to handle with LR4 (and presumably LR5), its as if they have caught up with the Canon sensors (albeit a couple of gen' behind)!
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Hi Jim,

I only bumped it due to someone asking about buying a used 50D and thought it would help them a bit.

Good news regards LR4.

Mike.
 
Always good to keep these threads alive, people still use older series bodies and as you say, they still change hands on the used market (y)
 
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