NAS or file server for storage & backup?

ancient_mariner

ancient_mariner

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I'm changing the way I do computing, to just having a single laptop that's carried between home and office, and that I plan to back up in both places, in addition to backing up other computers at home. I presently use an external HDD at work, and will likely continue to do so for a while, which is fine.

At home we have an accounting computer, my personal computer, and sometimes my laptop. We have an NAS unit (D-Link IIRC) that I've previously configured as a backup drive, but TBH it never seemed to work well and transfer rates were terrible (<<20Mbs) through 200Mbit powerline adapters. I'm wondering if there is a benefit to converting one of my linux boxes into a file server instead of using the NAS? As far as I can see a NAS unit is just a low-cost file server with limited interface & tools. An alternative question is whether it's simply a lot easier to configure a NAS unit than it is a linux fileserver.
 
NAS = simplicity, but you must fit around it and any limitations you hit

File server = more complex, but more flexibility.

I run a HP microserver running Windows 7. It runs iTunes, Twonky and acts as a file server.
 
neil_g said:
NAS = network attached storage
server = server

2 separate things :D

no reason why a NAS should be slow, other than its cheap and/or it has crappy network infrastructure servicing it.
Click to expand...

I appreciate they are not the same, even though I want them to perform a similar function in some respects, and this one is both cheap and the infrastructure is relatively crappy (no gigabit ethernet here). But I was asking which might be better in the given circumstances, rather than having the obvious pointed out. ;)

Thanks Dale_tem.
 
If you are connecting over slow network infrastructure, you need to have a system that backs up differentially - that is, it only backs up the changed bits of your files, not the whole file in one go. All my systems are backed up using rsync - which is useful in a heterogeneous network.

I'd start with the backup solution (which sounds like what the "server" will be used for) and figure what you need to implement from there....
 
Sounds like the powerline adaptor is your slow bit (going over wireless will also be slow unless on the new ac version)

It may be easier to get Linux working along with rsync (as arad85 suggests) or robocopy (however bear in mind that both will sync changes so neither are really a 'backup' solution i.e. delete a file and it will be deleted from the copy set)

Did the D-Link come with a backup app - that should give you the option of incremental/delta backups?

If you're on Windows 7 (Professional gives you network share capabilities) you can use the integrated app: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows7/products/features/backup-and-restore
 
Synology all the way! File-Store, Replication, iTunes server, Music Station, Video Streaming, it does it all, and more!

You do realise that around 20Mb/s through the 200Mbit Powerline adapters isn't actually too bad? I've certainly seen worse! And I'm assuming the NAS has a 1Gbps connection to the Powerline adapter?

And with regards to the 802.11ac wireless, it's good, but only if you've got the 5GHz connection, at least 40 or 80MHz Channel Width, and are within good range of the AP, otherwise the real working speed is likely to be slower than what you are already experiencing...
 
And for balance, I swapped out my Synology for a hp microserver. The Synology failed disk 4 regularly for no reason, some couldn't trust it.

The hp microserver was more powerful, £125 (with cash back), and has been highly reliable. I can also run my network camera recording software so I can record straight to disk.
 
Thanks Guys. For the time being I won't buy any new kit, although it's interesting to hear the recommendations.

James - I'll be running W8.1, so will look into what backup options that might contain. The D-Link NAS came with backup software, but it simply didn't work on XP except when prompted manually, and that's not acceptable. I'd love a windows equivalent app to Apple's Time Machine, that's so effective, but am reluctant to spend real money at this stage.
 
jimbo_wa said:
It may be easier to get Linux working along with rsync (as arad85 suggests) or robocopy (however bear in mind that both will sync changes so neither are really a 'backup' solution i.e. delete a file and it will be deleted from the copy set)
Click to expand...
You can do backups with rsync if you configure it right. If not, something like rsnapshot (which uses rsync) then or run ZFS on your Linux fileserver and make rotating snapshots through the filesystem. With ZFS, snapshots are really cheap due to the way the filesystem is constructed.

If it runs on Unix, it will probably run on a Windows machine if you install cygwin....
 
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jimbo_wa said:
It may be easier to get Linux working along with rsync (as arad85 suggests) or robocopy (however bear in mind that both will sync changes so neither are really a 'backup' solution i.e. delete a file and it will be deleted from the copy set)
Click to expand...


Only if you use rsync -delete -avh...

Otherwise it won't remove remote files.
 
Yep, your Powerline is ****, which is just a general problem with them. I have the "gigabit" version which came with Cat 5 cables (yes 5, not 5e). They are fine for sharing (lower speed) internet connections but are pretty poor for file sharing. I'm looking into the wireless AC because it's likely to be about 4-6 times faster (I get 5MB/s throughput with mine connected to a Synology).
 
I use NAS.
It suits my needs at home and only requires a few tweaks to fool windows 7 it is a local drive. I use wifi most of the time which is shown as 144mbps (18MB/s) but a 17mb nef file takes about 5 second to load. When you connect via cable it appears faster then my local drive?? It is fast enough to edit video in premire too.

nothing fancy used just a simpe WD My Cloud drive Linksys router and some fancy home made plug sockets that have Ethernet and usb cabling built in.

Remember LR can use virtual copies
 
Sorry my comment was a bit throw away :D it was one of those posts that you mean to come back to and clarify but run out of hours in the day.

It really depends what you want. If you literally only want file sharing then a good spec Nas (synology/qnap) would be ideal.

If you want to end up doing loads more such as (but not limited to) taking your network services away from your router (dhcp, dns), user management, media serving (dnla, plex), virtual machines yadda yadda then something like a Microserver might be better. Hardware expandability is better too.

A synology or qnap blurs the lines a little as it can do some of the above natively or through bolt on apps.

Unfortunately a good Nas isn't cheap. It's the main reason I ditched my synology ds1010 for a HP Microserver, it was cheaper to expand my storage into esata DAS. I've also now gone down the VM route for some things.

But as said the fastest Nas or server is still going to be hampered by poor network infrastructure. Ideally you want gigabit cable (and switch) where speed matters.
 
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Byker28i said:
And for balance, I swapped out my Synology for a hp microserver. The Synology failed disk 4 regularly for no reason, some couldn't trust it.

The hp microserver was more powerful, £125 (with cash back), and has been highly reliable. I can also run my network camera recording software so I can record straight to disk.
Click to expand...
Did you speak to synology about it? I had a fault on bay 5 of my ds1010, I contacted their support and they ran remote diagnostics. The backplane turned out to be faulty so they raised an RMA for me and it was swapped out in less than a week.

Their support is fantastic.
 
With regards to running iTunes on a NAS compared to a Server. The server can play music and films via air play. A NAS will need a PC to send music to airplay.

I also added a sound card to my micro server and this takes care of music in my office.
 
Dale, this is not the case for synology, they have audio options now for output :)
 
You can send music to an airplay device using the iTunes remote on android/iOS?

That changes things :)
 
I'm no Apple hero, in fact I'm a Chromecast user which is working perfectly for me, however from what I've read it is possible :)

1. From the Synology Front-End

http://www.synology.com/en-global/support/tutorials/522

2. And an excerpt taken from the DS Audio app on the Play Store

"-Use DS audio as a remote to stream music from your DiskStation to any attached speakers (Airplay-enabled / Chromecast / DLNA / UPnP media renderers)"
 
Ahh, I think it streams from the device not the server, so a server is still better for iTunes
 
neil_g said:
Did you speak to synology about it? I had a fault on bay 5 of my ds1010, I contacted their support and they ran remote diagnostics. The backplane turned out to be faulty so they raised an RMA for me and it was swapped out in less than a week.

Their support is fantastic.
Click to expand...
Outside the warrenty period, apparnetly it had one year. It worked ok with just two drives in then when I went to 4 it constantly failed.

When I spoke to them they said faulty drive, so I replaced it, then replaced it again when it failed a week later.
Then when it failed again a few days later I rebuilt the raid swapping the drives around so a known good one into slot 4 - failed after 2 days of raid build and as soon as I started a backup to it.
I replaced all 4 with new ones and it continued. Run with 3 drives and it's solid, however 3 drives didn't give me the space I required.
Synology support blamed the drives - until I pointed out their document saying they were supported drives.
It also took a long long time to run backups to, even running robocopy or synchback on changed files only.

Just turned into a nightmare. After 6 weeks of messing about I gave up and went HP Miniserver

Swapping to the HP miniserver with the 4 drives from the Synology Nas and it's been running with no issues no crashes for 5-6 months? I run server 2008 on it.
Backups to it are 5 times faster, so there was something wrong with the Nas.

Gave up, it's currently in the office running an internal music service on two 750Gb disks only.
 
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I'm keen that any backup device has a useful sleep mode. So it saves power and noise when not in use. As most of the time ours is idle.
Somes NASs are ideal here. Like my 1 HDD WD, which has a sleep mode and no fan. But I never found a dual disk one that went to sleep with no fan running.

Our home NAS gets called "the server" as we don't know the difference. The family doesn't know what a NAS is, and can't think of a better name for it.

Question, I use Copy.com for online effortless backup. But I haven't found a way to backup to the NAS with similar ease. With Copy.com I just pick a folder, and it gets slowly synchronised as and when changes are made.
 
Thanks. I need one that runs on Linux. The ones I found would only do periodic backup, or can't see network storage.
 
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rsync and cron........ (rsync has been mentioned before in the thread). Although you may have to look for a GUI ;)
 
arad85 said:
rsync and cron........ (rsync has been mentioned before in the thread). Although you may have to look for a GUI ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks, I've looked at the various GUIs but none work as well as the online sync services. Many can't see network storage and few, if any, detect changes in a folder. So I'm still searching.
 
Quick - where was that linux v windows thread :D

Freenas perhaps? or does it have to run linux OS? I think I've used dirsync before, but couldn't you just script it?
 
The Synology iTunes server is basically useless. Hasn't worked for several major iTunes revisions.

I'm still waiting for a Plex server for my DS214....at the moment I have to run it on my desktop and use Chromecast or Plex on the TV.
 
Most "iTunes server" software on NAS means it appears as a shared library for other iTunes libraries to see and that is about it.
 
mid_gen said:
The Synology iTunes server is basically useless. Hasn't worked for several major iTunes revisions.

I'm still waiting for a Plex server for my DS214....at the moment I have to run it on my desktop and use Chromecast or Plex on the TV.
Click to expand...

Works fine for me and my DS214 Play with latest iTunes on PC and Mac...
 
Crashplan for cloud backup, or even a cheap NAS and 8.1 File History?
I use WHS 2011 on a cheap HP Microserver to backup everything in the house and it's ace.
 
Thanks James.

I dug out my old D-Link NAS yesterday, and will fire it up soon. The computer I'd thought of using as a server won't reach boot, and my home desktop has also just failed (mobo issues) so it will be NAS backup for me!
 
A ready made NAS is certainly easier (quieter, cooler) than converting using a desktop pc. Use your old dektop HD in the NAS or shove it in a USB housing for a bit of extra or offsite storage.
 
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TBH I don't care about cool or quiet aspects, but the matter isn't a choice right now anyway.
 
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