ND Grad fliter problem

ShutterWork

ShutterWork

Messages
865
Name
Anand
Edit My Images
Yes
Hi all,

I've recently obtained used Cokin P ND grad filters and did some testing today. The filter appear to be alright with some normal wear and tear minute scratces. Nothing significant. Kind of disappointed with the results and sure what's going wrong..is it me or the filters? definitely would like to check before I balme the filters and dash out to buy new ones..

My general question on all the images were filter have been used are -

1. What's the greyish tinge which is normally more significant when looking green foliage?
2. Why do the trees lack saturation as if shooting from behind a glass?

Thanks...here are some of the photos

1. WITHOUT ND
6086446589_98d0cc69fa_z.jpg
[/url][/IMG]

2. WITH ND
6086991018_589503d7e4_z.jpg
[/url][/IMG]


3. WITHOUT ND
6086984034_3238d84f77_z.jpg
[/url][/IMG]

4. WITH ND
6086981968_f6f2dd18d0_z.jpg
[/url][/IMG]
 
Some more for comparison..

5. WITHOUT ND
6086974384_e2c8de0a28_z.jpg
[/url][/IMG]

6. WITH ND
6086972364_7398f82a45_z.jpg
[/url][/IMG]

7. WITHOUT ND
6086968388_6a6bb1eb1f_z.jpg
[/url][/IMG]

8. WITH ND
6086423541_42203de70b_z.jpg
[/url][/IMG]

9. WITH ND
6086985944_4a60966c0e_z.jpg
[/url][/IMG]
 
It's flare. All filters do it, especially if they are a bit scratched or got finger prints on them. That's quite bad, but uncoated filters (like all rectangular resin grads) are worse affected and shooting into the light like that promotes it.

That's why I avoid filters if at all possible - HDR technique does the grad thing better anyway IMHO. People that use UV protection filters as a matter of course get this effect all the time, to a lesser extent, but just don't realise it.
 
Last edited:
Not all filters do it. My Lee filters dont for example.
Cokin are well known for funny colour casts and other issues.. Thats what you get for buying cheap sadly.
You are basicly sticking a cheap bit of plastic infront of your lens.. Its going to cause some issues, the same as sticking a cheap UV filter will. Its up to you to decide if the issues ar bad enough to not use the filters.
Adding a bit of contrast in PP should help with the "behind glass" look, but it still wont be perfect.
 
Seriously Tom, if you shoot with/without into the sun like that all filters produce some flare, including Lee, though not this bad. Lee make a very nice bellows lens hood to help reduce it, but shooting with a wide-angle into the light you will always get some, and even ghosting in extremes like a sunset.

When I tested a stack of grads recently (for Advanced Photographer magazine, May edition) they all flared and the key differentiating factor was the thickness of the filter rather than the price, though there wasn't much in it. Cokin are amongst the thinnest, Lee about medium, HiTech and Kood very slightly thicker.

Anand mentions some tiny surface scratches, such as you get when you stuff them into your jeans back pocket which, unless there's a big thumb print in the middle, is the most likely reason it's so noticeable. The scratches allow light to enter and scatter into the material where it diffuses into a fog of veiling glare.
 
Thanks Richard and Tom for your your inputs. Do appreciate them, and sorry about this delayed reply. Was out all day today (@Chester zoo - testing my New nikkor 70-300mm :))

So the problem sadly I see is the lens flare..:(. b****r filters..Not sure Tom, if you mentioned having Hitech in one of the threads. How are these?

Richard, do see your point and why you prefer HDR. This is something I have never tried. Will be worth trying I guess. Was just trying to understand what you mentioned about lens flare and thickness of the filter..are we saying thinner the lens greater the flare?? Is that the reason Cokins do bad?
 
All filters will flare if you use them incorrectly. I find I get fantastic results from my Cokins! They're not bad as some people will suggest.

Don't let the camera control the exposure though. If you do you might find the camera will try and compensate for the dark area of the filter and completely overexpose, obliterating the effect of the filter and whatevers left!

I find a well used grad us much preferable to HDR.
 
ShutterWork said:
Thanks Richard and Tom for your your inputs. Do appreciate them, and sorry about this delayed reply. Was out all day today (@Chester zoo - testing my New nikkor 70-300mm :))

So the problem sadly I see is the lens flare..:(. b****r filters..Not sure Tom, if you mentioned having Hitech in one of the threads. How are these?

Richard, do see your point and why you prefer HDR. This is something I have never tried. Will be worth trying I guess. Was just trying to understand what you mentioned about lens flare and thickness of the filter..are we saying thinner the lens greater the flare?? Is that the reason Cokins do bad?
Click to expand...

Sorry if that was unclear, it's the thicker filters that tend to be marginally worse for flare, there's more material for the light to diffuse and spread within, but there's really not much in it. I wouldn't choose one filter over another on that score.

In those circumstance, shooting into bright light, any filter will flare. You'll probably get problems even without a filter. Coating helps, but the best way is to avoid situations like that in the first place.
 
My cokin ND grads have a bad magenta tinge to them - it's a well known problem. There so bad I've just got them thrown in the corner somewhere, a complete waste of money.

However as hoppy said this does look like light reflecting off the filter. Did you shott the without with a lens hood on, or just the cokin filter holder?
 
@ Jim - Thanks Jim. I was shooting on Av mde on all these. Never thought about camera compensating for the darker areas..will try on M mode next time. Definitley something to consider. So are there any pointers on how to use the filters appropriately to reduce flaring? I am complete noob in this area.

@ Richard - Thanks for clarifying. Does make sense.

@Byker28i - All shot without the lens hood. Not sure how can I have the hood on with the filter holder? Are talking about specialised filter hoods? Thanks.
 
Nope I was just thinking that if you shot with a lens hood on, that might have minimised flare. If you then took it off to fit the filter then that might have been the difference.
Cheers
 
Byker28i said:
Nope I was just thinking that if you shot with a lens hood on, that might have minimised flare. If you then took it off to fit the filter then that might have been the difference.
Cheers
Click to expand...

Right, do understand what you mean now. No didn't have the hood on at all.
 
jamesoliverstone said:
I have never had this with my Lee filters...
Click to expand...

Guess this might be the way fornward..dont mind shelling out the money..it's just the waiting which kills me as lee filters are so hard to find and normally out of stock.
 
jamesoliverstone said:
I have never had this with my Lee filters...
Click to expand...

You must have done, Hoppy said so. :exit:

I've shot many sunsets straight into the sun and never had flaring and contrast loss like in the OP pictures. Sure, sometimes you might get a little flare off the sun, but nothing that ruins the image.
 
Byker28i said:
My cokin ND grads have a bad magenta tinge to them - it's a well known problem. There so bad I've just got them thrown in the corner somewhere, a complete waste of money.
Click to expand...

Sometimes the colour cast is just what you need !

Here's an example taken at a TP meet two days ago; I was there, the sky was never that colour! However, it's a very effective image.
Stan's excellent composition has been added to by the dramatic cast from the filter...
My Lee grads made the sky look cold and grey with a dull orange glow, just like really was.
 
I've heard of this colour cast with Cokins but I've never suffered from it, Ive found them all to be very effective, and have yet to consider going the Lee route as my Cokins do the job so well!
 
Last edited:
TCR4x4 said:
You must have done, Hoppy said so. :exit:

I've shot many sunsets straight into the sun and never had flaring and contrast loss like in the OP pictures. Sure, sometimes you might get a little flare off the sun, but nothing that ruins the image.
Click to expand...

LOL :D

That's usually the extent of it, nothing too serious :thumbs: But I don't think Cokin are any worse than any other brand on that score.

It's only a guess, but I think Anand's problem is a combination of factors, including difficult circumstances and not using a hood*, those tiny surface scratches he mentions or some finger marks.

* Hoods are rarely an optimum fit, unless it's one of those nice Lee bellows jobbies that you can adjust (Kood also do one, looks identical, cheaper ;)). Shading the lens with black card is quite effective, or even your hand, but if the bright area is actually in the picture, there's nothing you can do about that.
 
ShutterWork said:
Guess this might be the way fornward..dont mind shelling out the money..it's just the waiting which kills me as lee filters are so hard to find and normally out of stock.
Click to expand...

I just bookmarked all the Lee stockists...Robert White, Morco, Teamwork, Speedgraphic, Warehouse Express etc etc and checked them daily (was after a Big stopper) and struck it lucky one day when Speedgraphic had them in stock for about a day and a half. Purchased and never looked back.

Right place at right time, just luck. But by doing the above, you increase your chances greatly of getting hold of them as Lee Filters are like gold dust! :eek:
 
Thanks for the link Nick..will ring them soon to find out if these are still available. if not, will do as per Mark's suggestion..bookmark all websites.
 
Just a quick question to those who have Lee's..is there a very good reason I should prefer Glass ones instead of Resin? Or are resin ones equally good?
 
Last edited:
My grads are resin. My ND and Big Stopper are both glass.
Don't get tempted by the polyester filters, they are very flimsy and won't fit in the filter holder.
I've had the Grads a couple years and so far remain scratch free.
 
DuncanDisorderly said:
My grads are resin. My ND and Big Stopper are both glass.
Don't get tempted by the polyester filters, they are very flimsy and won't fit in the filter holder.
I've had the Grads a couple years and so far remain scratch free.
Click to expand...

Sorry Duncan, what do we mean by the polyester one? Do Lee's manufacture these as well? or are thery done buy some other company? thanks
 
Mmmm - good question - I've been told the Big Stopper is manufactured elsewhere on behalf of Lee and I've seen a video showing the resin grads being manufactured at Lee, but I don't know about the polyester ones.

This is what I meant by a polyester filter and the price is very tempting. I believe it can be used with these mounts, but I've not given them a go. I looked into it when I was trying to find a source for a Big Stopper. Theoretically, they ought to be a bargain :)
 
Lee's ND grads are only resin, they dont make any other type The standard ND's are resin or polyester. I wouldnt go for polyester, they are cheap and a bit nasty similar to the Cokins, althoug probably slightly less cast.
They also do a pro glass range of standard ND's, which will be better optically, but very fragile and expensive.
The big stopper is glass only.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top