New build has a significant issue.,...BSOD and beyond!

Replacements received

Sticker on box simply says, of the test, "Failing at POST"

I am awaiting a promised full(?) report....the tech guy had my email wrong.

So fingers crossed for the rebuild. I have not formatted the cloned OS drive but will in BIOS change the boot sequence to start with the W10 install USB as it is my understanding that it will find the drive and when selected will wipe it and install it afresh :)

All being earliest I can do it will tomorrow but more likely Saturday.
 
FWIW

I note the serial number of the replacement is higher than that of the one that failed!
 
Just to add......hopefully will do the rebuild later today (life just seemed to get in the way :LOL: )

Rather than use the cloned M2.SSD I have now wiped it using Easus software....................so it now clear and unallocated like new out of the box.

So, IIRC and AFAIK doing the clean install will create the allocation status and use the space as appropriate to create any partitions W10 sees fit to make on a clean install.

PS Easus made the drive GPT structure :)
 
Box Brownie said:
Just to add......hopefully will do the rebuild later today (life just seemed to get in the way :LOL: )

Rather than use the cloned M2.SSD I have now wiped it using Easus software....................so it now clear and unallocated like new out of the box.

So, IIRC and AFAIK doing the clean install will create the allocation status and use the space as appropriate to create any partitions W10 sees fit to make on a clean install.

PS Easus made the drive GPT structure :)
Click to expand...
Yes w10 will creat the partitions it needs. It does give you the opportunity to create your own first though.
So if you want a D drive for data for example, you can create one first. Then win 10 will partition the unallocated as it sees fit.
 
Update......

Rebuild went AOK
a) motherboard, ram, CPU & HSF, OS ready M2.SSD
b) accessed bios ran it for an hour monitoring the CPU temperature @37degrees
c) installed W10......took all of about 10minutes.
d) connected up all the drives and amended the drive letters.
e) installed the RTX3060 and it's drivers.
f) after the above ...... It is now connected up on the same desk as the old one. Sharing the monitor on the HDMI port & the wireless keyboard and mouse.

just installed my Internet Security/Anti virus

Next will be to install the printers on it.

Then MS SBE 2007.........setup the email mailboxes.

Then progressively install my other programs as needed to get on with post processing etc
 
Minor irritation.....................Windows would not activate..............puzzled to start with, then discovered the Call dialogue...................a tad long winded but straightforward support from the Indian call centre and the support agent activated it 'online' with a digital license :)
 
Box Brownie said:
Minor irritation.....................Windows would not activate..............puzzled to start with, then discovered the Call dialogue...................a tad long winded but straightforward support from the Indian call centre and the support agent activated it 'online' with a digital license :)
Click to expand...

I always thought that when you install your copy of Windows again it doesn't need activation because it will simply deactivate on the previous machine. Presumably using MAC addresses and hardware to identify such. I wonder if because you are using the same hardware again this has perhaps caused that issue?
 
gman said:
I always thought that when you install your copy of Windows again it doesn't need activation because it will simply deactivate on the previous machine. Presumably using MAC addresses and hardware to identify such. I wonder if because you are using the same hardware again this has perhaps caused that issue?
Click to expand...

The hardware is different - same type but different mobo etc. It stops you activating a single license on multiple identical builds. Also it can't know the defunct machine is dead.
 
ancient_mariner said:
The hardware is different - same type but different mobo etc. It stops you activating a single license on multiple identical builds. Also it can't know the defunct machine is dead.
Click to expand...

Ah, I forgot that the MB and processor were replaced! It must be using MAC addresses then?
 
Activation is quite complex.
It differs depending on the licence. Retail, oem or company. Transfers can differ depending on if its linked to a microsoft account or not.
Typical microsoft.
 
gman said:
Ah, I forgot that the MB and processor were replaced! It must be using MAC addresses then?
Click to expand...
Yes it collects all the component mac codes and identifies that as 1 pc.
You can change hd and a few other components though and it will be accepted.
 
gman said:
I always thought that when you install your copy of Windows again it doesn't need activation because it will simply deactivate on the previous machine. Presumably using MAC addresses and hardware to identify such. I wonder if because you are using the same hardware again this has perhaps caused that issue?
Click to expand...

ancient_mariner said:
The hardware is different - same type but different mobo etc. It stops you activating a single license on multiple identical builds. Also it can't know the defunct machine is dead.
Click to expand...

gman said:
Ah, I forgot that the MB and processor were replaced! It must be using MAC addresses then?
Click to expand...

Cockney said:
Activation is quite complex.
It differs depending on the licence. Retail, oem or company. Transfers can differ depending on if its linked to a microsoft account or not.
Typical microsoft.
Click to expand...

Cockney said:
Yes it collects all the component mac codes and identifies that as 1 pc.
You can change hd and a few other components though and it will be accepted.
Click to expand...

As others may have experienced doing it by phone.....?

The dialogue box I saw had 9 blocks of 6 digits, the agent got me to repeat 3 of the blocks......she could then trigger a digital license reactivation.

My supposition is that the 9 blocks sequence is a unique identifier of the (failed) activation license request. The digital license is accepted by the PC upon clicking the Troubleshoot link on the activation page. NB if not connected to the internet I think she would have given me a code to type in that would act like a verification (in the background?) once connected to the internet.

As for how they know about the PC. Well, as mentioned above the key components are the motherboard and CPU.
MS loves its OS to phone home, so my supposition is.....it is likely that the OS creates a hash key that is made of/from the unique identifiers in the CPU, motherboard (MAC address, chipset ID..... etc?) & the W10 license key = any change to the significant ID'ers changes the hash key.

Therefore, when the agent reactivates the license it is anonymous......she was simply(?) re-authorising an existing record on the server database once I proved the original license was genuine.

PS it seems that with the connected world we live in, all (current?) software is activated online! Even if we try to reduce our electronic footprint, you cannot completely get away from it!

PPS on a side note. I recall seeing some customers who for religious reasons were very against the use of computer based technology. The only tech they accepted was if it was to operate the equipment........fast forward a few years and PCs appeared. But as I learned, the Windows OS had been modified to accommodate their religious beliefs. It was not clear that the modifications were MS sanctioned or 'niche' sandboxed by a third party developer in some manner.

These were Christians and where I don't think they adopted computers were IIRC The Pilgrim Fathers (the women were always dressed in blue head scarves). The other company there was not a distinguishing garb, other than very plainly dressed.
 
Cockney said:
Yes it collects all the component mac codes and identifies that as 1 pc.
You can change hd and a few other components though and it will be accepted.
Click to expand...

Aye that rings a bell as I remember in the past when I changed my graphics card it came up wanting to be activated again. It never happened with my recent GPU swap though, although as you say it is all linked to my Microsoft account now.
 
Box Brownie said:
As others may have experienced doing it by phone.....?

The dialogue box I saw had 9 blocks of 6 digits, the agent got me to repeat 3 of the blocks......she could then trigger a digital license reactivation.

My supposition is that the 9 blocks sequence is a unique identifier of the (failed) activation license request. The digital license is accepted by the PC upon clicking the Troubleshoot link on the activation page. NB if not connected to the internet I think she would have given me a code to type in that would act like a verification (in the background?) once connected to the internet.

As for how they know about the PC. Well, as mentioned above the key components are the motherboard and CPU.
MS loves its OS to phone home, so my supposition is.....it is likely that the OS creates a hash key that is made of/from the unique identifiers in the CPU, motherboard (MAC address, chipset ID..... etc?) & the W10 license key = any change to the significant ID'ers changes the hash key.

Therefore, when the agent reactivates the license it is anonymous......she was simply(?) re-authorising an existing record on the server database once I proved the original license was genuine.

PS it seems that with the connected world we live in, all (current?) software is activated online! Even if we try to reduce our electronic footprint, you cannot completely get away from it!

PPS on a side note. I recall seeing some customers who for religious reasons were very against the use of computer based technology. The only tech they accepted was if it was to operate the equipment........fast forward a few years and PCs appeared. But as I learned, the Windows OS had been modified to accommodate their religious beliefs. It was not clear that the modifications were MS sanctioned or 'niche' sandboxed by a third party developer in some manner.

These were Christians and where I don't think they adopted computers were IIRC The Pilgrim Fathers (the women were always dressed in blue head scarves). The other company there was not a distinguishing garb, other than very plainly dressed.
Click to expand...
I mentioned it in post #45, but as you found it is a simple procedure.

It is all to do with their future plans (and in the past) to milk people money.

In 2000, I commented that MS would never really gain total domination until they placed windows in the public domain.
They have almost done that with "free" windows 10 upgrades, now there are even less people using alternatives, plus the fact that nearly everyone is now connected to the internet, all means they are getting closer to making sure that every copy of windows in licenced, something they have not managed before.

If in the end this means they are going to price it the same as they charge government and education departments, it could be good for all. But if it means they are going to charge all those more, or even the same as the public pays, it is going to impact heavily. Still a few years to go though.

But good to hear you are up and running now :)
 
Just by way of a random post ;)

Booted up this evening and I can have the W11 upgrade.....................at this time I have declined it.. W10 is not yet EoL so no rush as far as I am concerned :)
 
Box Brownie said:
Just by way of a random post ;)

Booted up this evening and I can have the W11 upgrade.....................at this time I have declined it.. W10 is not yet EoL so no rush as far as I am concerned :)
Click to expand...
Win 11 is better, in my opinion. A little quicker and from my experience with customer faults, a little more stable. I've seen far fewer update errors with win 11.
 
I'm not rushing to upgrade most of my W10 systems to W11 as I don't find there's much benefit to W11 unless you're running a recent Intel processor with different processor core types (Performance and Efficiency cores/P core and E core) which I find W11 works much better with as the W10 scheduler doesn't use the different core types correctly.
 
JohnMcL7 said:
I'm not rushing to upgrade most of my W10 systems to W11 as I don't find there's much benefit to W11 unless you're running a recent Intel processor with different processor core types (Performance and Efficiency cores/P core and E core) which I find W11 works much better with as the W10 scheduler doesn't use the different core types correctly.
Click to expand...
The build has an Intel i5 13600K

I will have a look again the detailed spec but IIRC did see some reference to P & E cores.

Just maybe it might be sooner rather than later to take the free upgrade :thinking:

PS but one thing for sure...... programs open so far blazingly fast. The test(?) will be how quickly DxO PhotoLab opens compared to on the old system?

I am slowly adding my programs to it. (MS Office SBE, Adobe CS6, Adobe Acrobat Reader..... done)

PPS one puzzle at the moment is the Yellow Exclamation marks against PCI items in Device Manager. None too clear which items need their drivers???
Audio and LAN installed AOK but that did not affect those "marks". FWIW I have not installed the Intel 'drivers/utilities '.

Here is the downloads page for the motherboard
www.gigabyte.com

Z790 D DDR4 (rev. 1.0) Support | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...
www.gigabyte.com www.gigabyte.com
 
Last edited:
Box Brownie said:
The build has an Intel i5 13600K

I will have a look again the detailed spec but IIRC did see some reference to P & E cores.

Just maybe it might be sooner rather than later to take the free upgrade :thinking:

PS but one thing for sure...... programs open so far blazingly fast. The test(?) will be how quickly DxO PhotoLab opens compared to on the old system?

I am slowly adding my programs to it. (MS Office SBE, Adobe CS6, Adobe Acrobat Reader..... done)

PPS one puzzle at the moment is the Yellow Exclamation marks against PCI items in Device Manager. None too clear which items need their drivers???
Audio and LAN installed AOK but that did not affect those "marks". FWIW I have not installed the Intel 'drivers/utilities '.

Here is the downloads page for the motherboard
www.gigabyte.com

Z790 D DDR4 (rev. 1.0) Support | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...
www.gigabyte.com www.gigabyte.com
Click to expand...
2 points.
1. I always install the full mobo drivers.
2. Why adobe reader?
 
Box Brownie said:
The build has an Intel i5 13600K

I will have a look again the detailed spec but IIRC did see some reference to P & E cores.

Just maybe it might be sooner rather than later to take the free upgrade :thinking:

PS but one thing for sure...... programs open so far blazingly fast. The test(?) will be how quickly DxO PhotoLab opens compared to on the old system?
Click to expand...
That is one of the processor types I was referring to and the problem with Windows 10 is that it allocates performance tasks to the efficiency cores so it runs slower than it should, it can end up alternating between P and E cores so programs will work well one moment but not later. It sounds like it's working fine for you so far but if you do start seeing inconsistent performance it's likely W10 is the cause.
 
Cockney said:
2 points.
1. I always install the full mobo drivers.
2. Why adobe reader?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply :)

re: 1) IIRC I looked up some of the Intel ones and they seemed to be task specific.......though I cannot recall which or what right now ??? But I do take your point and the eSupport when I asked them for their insights....they just pointed me to the the page above....without expanded info.

I have always liked the Reader and never quite liked the one built into MS Edge.

If I have missed something new(?) that is worthy of attention please do tell me :)
 
JohnMcL7 said:
That is one of the processor types I was referring to and the problem with Windows 10 is that it allocates performance tasks to the efficiency cores so it runs slower than it should, it can end up alternating between P and E cores so programs will work well one moment but not later. It sounds like it's working fine for you so far but if you do start seeing inconsistent performance it's likely W10 is the cause.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the insight.......there is an icon now in the task bar with the W11 invite.
 
@Cockney

Brian

I have been going through the drivers and installed the:-
Intel INF Installation....this removed from the yellow exclamation list all of the PCI Device 'ones' and the SM Bus Controller NB there were 7 off of the PCI Device ones
Intel Serial I/O Driver.........this removed one "Unknown Device

Re: The Intel HID Event Filter.....this one when downloaded was flagged "MS Defender Smart Scan" as not trustworthy....it seems that is 'unsigned'. Looking on the Intel website and the only ref to it relates to a Laptop this this new PC is not

The above leaves me with one unknown device with the Yellow Exclamation mark.

The only other driver is the SATA Raid/AHCI one and as I will never be running a RAID setup....I cannot see that as relevant???
 
Box Brownie said:
The above leaves me with one unknown device with the Yellow Exclamation mark.

The only other driver is the SATA Raid/AHCI one and as I will never be running a RAID setup....I cannot see that as relevant???
Click to expand...
But you will be running in AHCI mode so you should install it.
 
Box Brownie said:
@Cockney

Brian

I have been going through the drivers and installed the:-
Intel INF Installation....this removed from the yellow exclamation list all of the PCI Device 'ones' and the SM Bus Controller NB there were 7 off of the PCI Device ones
Intel Serial I/O Driver.........this removed one "Unknown Device

Re: The Intel HID Event Filter.....this one when downloaded was flagged "MS Defender Smart Scan" as not trustworthy....it seems that is 'unsigned'. Looking on the Intel website and the only ref to it relates to a Laptop this this new PC is not

The above leaves me with one unknown device with the Yellow Exclamation mark.

The only other driver is the SATA Raid/AHCI one and as I will never be running a RAID setup....I cannot see that as relevant???
Click to expand...
If you can't identify a component, go into device manager and right click on the device highlighted.. In there you will find a long number identifying the device. Copy that into google and you will find what it is.
 
Cockney said:
If you can't identify a component, go into device manager and right click on the device highlighted.. In there you will find a long number identifying the device. Copy that into google and you will find what it is.
Click to expand...
Okeydoke
I will look for the long number........and search :)
 
@Cockney

In ref to the the 'number' of the device....I found it and looked it up the refs I could find all say it is th e HID Event Filter
Now, when I download that driver on the new PC the MS Defender intervenes telling me it is not trusted (as unsigned). I have downloaded it and passes my anti virus scan so no obvious threat BUT note when I downloaded it on the old W10 PC no such warning came up.

Is MS Defender being overly cautious?

Re: the SATA/AHCI pre-install driver..........this one oddly without any info told me it may not have installed correctly and would try compatibility mode......trying W7 but again said it does not know if it is working.
FWIW checking in Device Manager before I tried to install the driver the info says Standard SATA AHCI Controller and the properties tell me it MS version10.0.19041.1889
 
Box Brownie said:
@Cockney

In ref to the the 'number' of the device....I found it and looked it up the refs I could find all say it is th e HID Event Filter
Now, when I download that driver on the new PC the MS Defender intervenes telling me it is not trusted (as unsigned). I have downloaded it and passes my anti virus scan so no obvious threat BUT note when I downloaded it on the old W10 PC no such warning came up.

Is MS Defender being overly cautious?

Re: the SATA/AHCI pre-install driver..........this one oddly without any info told me it may not have installed correctly and would try compatibility mode......trying W7 but again said it does not know if it is working.
FWIW checking in Device Manager before I tried to install the driver the info says Standard SATA AHCI Controller and the properties tell me it MS version10.0.19041.1889
Click to expand...
Lots of drivers are unsigned because they have to pay Microsoft to get them verified.
 
Cockney said:
Lots of drivers are unsigned because they have to pay Microsoft to get them verified.
Click to expand...

Ah! I was not aware of that aspect?

FWIW I always scan all downloads with my AV software before installing it/them. On balance is it reasonable to accept that provided the driver file scans clear it is ok to use.

Interestingly the same file downloaded on the old PC where defender is also 'watching' Edge downloads did not flag/alert. So a bit odd???
 
Box Brownie said:
Ah! I was not aware of that aspect?

FWIW I always scan all downloads with my AV software before installing it/them. On balance is it reasonable to accept that provided the driver file scans clear it is ok to use.

Interestingly the same file downloaded on the old PC where defender is also 'watching' Edge downloads did not flag/alert. So a bit odd???
Click to expand...
Its not a report of a viral load, just that microsoft haven't tested it.
On "s" versions of windows they only allow you to download from the Microsoft store. Unless you change the version from "s".
If it's a driver from a recognised source I would load it. I've never had any issues.
 
Cockney said:
Its not a report of a viral load, just that microsoft haven't tested it.
On "s" versions of windows they only allow you to download from the Microsoft store. Unless you change the version from "s".
If it's a driver from a recognised source I would load it. I've never had any issues.
Click to expand...
Okey dokey.....installed and yellow exclamation marks all gone :D
 
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