New build has a significant issue.,...BSOD and beyond!

[Box Brownie]

My only observation with all of that is that they have mentioned repair a couple of times. No no no no no.

Where/if appropriate I will state the goods were not of merchantable quality i.e. failed <30 days.

However, at this time I shall have to see what the report and what their (advised?) actions will be???

Thinking out loud, so to speak, if they lack new stock replacement stock for the motherboard...............I will be asking them what alternative Z790 boards they can offer make/model number???

 

[Brentor]

I hope it all gets sorted for you and Novtech are reasonable, they say the test of a good company is when things go bad. I expect they will just return the faulty motherboard and/or CPU to their suppliers but need to test for user error first. Hopefully it will not be necessary but are you covered by credit card protection?

I was tempted to build my next PC but after reading this thread I’m not sure this is a good idea. Perhaps you have just been very unlucky but that is hardly likely to make you feel any better. Hopefully you can still enjoy the Easter break.

 

[GeeJay57]

My only observation with all of that is that they have mentioned repair a couple of times. No no no no no.

I agree. How are they going to affect a repair to either item? Can‘t see it myself. Replace only.

@Box Brownie make sure you photograph the pins on the CPU

 

[Cockney]

Just for info, these failures are rare but the timing is not.
Most pc components fail on "the bathtub curve" .
In the first few weeks, relatively high failures. Settles down to almost no failures and rising again at the 7 year mark.
Most component design life is 6 years.

 

[Box Brownie]

I hope it all gets sorted for you and Novtech are reasonable, they say the test of a good company is when things go bad. I expect they will just return the faulty motherboard and/or CPU to their suppliers but need to test for user error first. Hopefully it will not be necessary but are you covered by credit card protection?

I was tempted to build my next PC but after reading this thread I’m not sure this is a good idea. Perhaps you have just been very unlucky but that is hardly likely to make you feel any better. Hopefully you can still enjoy the Easter break.

I await the best of service (the phone call I found very good), their t&c element of the RMA email is IMO standard fayre. But stand ready for action if needed

I too think they likely, after testing etc, return & claim from their TLD (Top Level Distributor) supplier.

Yes, used my credit card to buy.

As for building a PC, put simply it a bit like Lego, Meacanno & plug board electronics projects all rolled into one

I agree. How are they going to affect a repair to either item? Can‘t see it myself. Replace only.

@Box Brownie make sure you photograph the pins on the CPU

As the PC initially worked well, the likelihood AFAIK of damaged pins is zero.

Having said that, I could lift to take a close up of the pins......and refit it for return as discussed with the support guy!

PS bear mind IIRC that LGA CPUs don't have pins like the older types. LGA stands for Landed Grid Array and the 'pin like elements' are in the motherboard socket.

The design is supposed to be more foolproof, as the CPU has location notches that align with lugs on the motherboard socket.

Just for info, these failures are rare but the timing is not.
Most pc components fail on "the bathtub curve" .
In the first few weeks, relatively high failures. Settles down to almost no failures and rising again at the 7 year mark.
Most component design life is 6 years.

An interesting insight

 

[GeeJay57]

…

PS bear mind IIRC that LGA CPUs don't have pins like the older types. LGA stands for Landed Grid Array and the 'pin like elements' are in the motherboard socket.

The design is supposed to be more foolproof, as the CPU has location notches that align with lugs on the motherboard socket.

Ah, good point, it has been years since I assembled a PC from scratch.

If you’re pulling the CPU to put it back in its original packaging, it still might be worth photographing the pads on the under side. I’d also photograph the socket if the pins are visible. Might be able to see something, might not. Good record either way.

My guess is the Novatech guys will pull the CPU, put it in a test machine on the bench and see if it boots up and handles a soak test. Similarly for the motherboard.

Good luck

 

[Jungli]

Does motherboard get enough juice from the power supply? It's been years since I built a computer but I did have this problem of not enough power to the MB.

Just guessing though.

 

[Brazo]

Wow a lots happened! Instability in Bios is almost certainly a hardware issue. My money would be on a motherboard/PSU issue rather than CPU but hope you get it sorted very soon.

I’m a bit nerdy and keep a second almost identical PC so I can swap parts for troubleshooting or just swap the new one in if I need it urgently as I couldn’t be without one!

 

[Box Brownie]

Ah, good point, it has been years since I assembled a PC from scratch.

If you’re pulling the CPU to put it back in its original packaging, it still might be worth photographing the pads on the under side. I’d also photograph the socket if the pins are visible. Might be able to see something, might not. Good record either way.

My guess is the Novatech guys will pull the CPU, put it in a test machine on the bench and see if it boots up and handles a soak test. Similarly for the motherboard.

Good luck

I asked and the support guy said to leave the CPU in situ but include the CPU box in the return. Also to be sure to include in the return the shield that is used to protect the socket. I can only make a surmise that 'they' have seen issues from customers mishandling the reattachment of the socket shield causing socket damage!

I will see about whether to pull it or not?

Does motherboard get enough juice from the power supply? It's been years since I built a computer but I did have this problem of not enough power to the MB.

Just guessing though.

I have always over spec'ed the PSU and have a Corsair RM850x an 850W in this build.

It is fully modular and the motherboard has 3 power plug points. The primary 24 pin ATX plug, an 8pin (2x4 pins) & a 4pin (2x2pins).....the latter 2 are both to supply the CPU power. Of note AFAIK some motherboards have 2 off 8pin sockets for that purpose! Oh, I have always bought 'quality' brand PSUs, getting that right IMO can be key to peace of mind

 

[Box Brownie]

Wow a lots happened! Instability in Bios is almost certainly a hardware issue. My money would be on a motherboard/PSU issue rather than CPU but hope you get it sorted very soon.

I’m a bit nerdy and keep a second almost identical PC so I can swap parts for troubleshooting or just swap the new one in if I need it urgently as I couldn’t be without one!

I do wish I had the space and funds for such an arrangement.

Re: PSU
When I could see the BIOS pages, the reported voltages were unwavering stable etc. And HWinFO64 monitoring when it was running in those first couple of days confirmed all that.

I don't have a spare PSU but have seen that you can get a PSU tester......i wonder how much they are? Goes Googling to see???

 

[Sangoma]

My only observation with all of that is that they have mentioned repair a couple of times. No no no no no.

I don't think that "repair" is a concern, they can not repair a CPU, and a motherboard could not be repaired in a shop, nor would it be economical to do so.

I see that by repair, they mean changing settings, or maybe re-flashing the BIOS, not making physical repairs.

As long as it comes back working

 

[GeeJay57]

I asked and the support guy said to leave the CPU in situ but include the CPU box in the return. Also to be sure to include in the return the shield that is used to protect the socket. I can only make a surmise that 'they' have seen issues from customers mishandling the reattachment of the socket shield causing socket damage!

I will see about whether to pull it or not?

I have always over spec'ed the PSU and have a Corsair RM850x an 850W in this build.

It is fully modular and the motherboard has 3 power plug points. The primary 24 pin ATX plug, an 8pin (2x4 pins) & a 4pin (2x2pins).....the latter 2 are both to supply the CPU power. Of note AFAIK some motherboards have 2 off 8pin sockets for that purpose! Oh, I have always bought 'quality' brand PSUs, getting that right IMO can be key to peace of mind

As their support guy said, to leave the cpu in situ, then I’d leave it as is.

 

[Cockney]

I don't think that "repair" is a concern, they can not repair a CPU, and a motherboard could not be repaired in a shop, nor would it be economical to do so.

I see that by repair, they mean changing settings, or maybe re-flashing the BIOS, not making physical repairs.

As long as it comes back working

I wouldn't accept any repair, even a reflash. I would never trust the board again.

I've also seen dry joint resoldered and tracks repaired, although a while back now.

 

[Cockney]

As their support guy said, to leave the cpu in situ, then I’d leave it as is.

So would I. They probably want to test in situ and see it is correctly seated. Bent pins and damaged sockets do happen. Which is why you can usually insure against it for a few quid.

 

[Sangoma]

I wouldn't accept any repair, even a reflash. I would never trust the board again.

I've also seen dry joint resoldered and tracks repaired, although a while back now.

A reflash is a normal procedure, not much different to an update, no reason why it can't be trusted, sometimes things go wrong during an update.

Modern mother boards are 4+ layers, the chances of even seeing a fault are remote, re-soldering dry joints and repairing tracks are highly unlikely to be attempted at a computer dealer.

I think the OP can be confident that if he gets it back working, it will be fine, plus they are a well respected firm who have a reputation for doing the right thing.

 

[Box Brownie]

I don't think that "repair" is a concern, they can not repair a CPU, and a motherboard could not be repaired in a shop, nor would it be economical to do so.

I see that by repair, they mean changing settings, or maybe re-flashing the BIOS, not making physical repairs.

As long as it comes back working

At this stage and as you say a retailer is very unlikely to do anything resembling a repair in the physical sense.

As for reflashing the BIOS, as the failure includes very flakey access to it I have doubts that even Q-Flash Plus would resolve anything!

But for me the overarching aspect is that this is less than 30 days since purchase and as such replacement should be the default action.

As their support guy said, to leave the cpu in situ, then I’d leave it as is.

A reflash is a normal procedure, not much different to an update, no reason why it can't be trusted, sometimes things go wrong during an update.

Modern mother boards are 4+ layers, the chances of even seeing a fault are remote, re-soldering dry joints and repairing tracks are highly unlikely to be attempted at a computer dealer.

I think the OP can be confident that if he gets it back working, it will be fine, plus they are a well respected firm who have a reputation for doing the right thing.

I still think the right action is simply check to confirm the fault and replace with new

 

[Box Brownie]

So would I. They probably want to test in situ and see it is correctly seated. Bent pins and damaged sockets do happen. Which is why you can usually insure against it for a few quid.

As mentioned, the system was up & running AOK for around 36 hours before BSOD and as far as I am aware a mis-seated or damage to the LGA and/or socket would have been obvious from the outset i.e. it would not even boot and not be a fault that takes time to reveal itself.

 

[Cockney]

A reflash is a normal procedure, not much different to an update, no reason why it can't be trusted, sometimes things go wrong during an update.

Modern mother boards are 4+ layers, the chances of even seeing a fault are remote, re-soldering dry joints and repairing tracks are highly unlikely to be attempted at a computer dealer.

I think the OP can be confident that if he gets it back working, it will be fine, plus they are a well respected firm who have a reputation for doing the right thing.

I wouldn't accept anything described as "repair". You don't have to, so why would you?

 

[Cockney]

I still think the right action is simply check to confirm the fault and replace with new new

I have never had a bios update go wrong. If it does, another issue has caused it.

 

[Cockney]

As mentioned, the system was up & running AOK for around 36 hours before BSOD and as far as I am aware a mis-seated or damage to the LGA and/or socket would have been obvious from the outset i.e. it would not even boot and not be a fault that takes time to reveal itself.

Logic would say so but temperature shows up or causes most MB related issues.

 

[Box Brownie]

Logic would say so but temperature shows up or causes most MB related issues.

IIRC
The temps, even when seen in the BIOS (when it let me ) was modest......I think it was around the 40degree mark while 'working' on an image processing test but last time I saw the temp in the BIOS GUI it was 29degrees. So no obvious overheating event.

 

[Sangoma]

I wouldn't accept anything described as "repair". You don't have to, so why would you?

I didn't say I would, I was saying I don't count a BIOS flash or changing BIOS settings as a "Repair" any more than I would changing a channel on a TV

 

[Cockney]

I didn't say I would, I was saying I don't count a BIOS flash or changing BIOS settings as a "Repair" any more than I would changing a channel on a TV

Come on. Reflashing a bios compared with changing channels?

So if you bought a new tv and it didn't work would you be happy for them to just reinstall the firmware? Wouldn't you want to know why the firmware corrupted in the first place?

Anyway, its semantics. Lets not derail the thread.

 

[Seniorshot]

I have been following this thread with interest. Somwe very useful information given by various members.
Unfortunately there has been no rescent posts.
Could the OP please give us an update.
Has the problem been resolved?
Did you get a new working Motherboard or CPU?
This would be useful for people on this forum to know if Novtech is a company worth doing business with!

 

[Box Brownie]

I have been following this thread with interest. Somwe very useful information given by various members.
Unfortunately there has been no rescent posts.
Could the OP please give us an update.
Has the problem been resolved?
Did you get a new working Motherboard or CPU?
This would be useful for people on this forum to know if Novtech is a company worth doing business with!

Update.....!

The motherboard & CPU are still in the hands of the supplier as @ Thursday 20th was under test!

Based on the failure I saw I wonder why they are still testing it/them. So all being well I should hear the outcome of the 'under test' they are doing. NB I sent with the return a bullet points list of what happened, what I did to diagnose the cause including that I could not even boot from a USB stick Linux.

 

[Seniorshot]

Many thanks for that update. I wrongly assumed that you problem was probably resolved by now.
Looking forward to hearing the final outcome

 

[Box Brownie]

OK further resolution update.

The tech guy at the supplier, tested the MB and the CPU and found both faulty.......his testing was not intended to discern what & in what way the failure occurred but the items will be sent back to the distro/ manufacturer. When I asked, he simply said sometimes equipment just fails and 'they' declare it so.

So, he took a new MB & CPU from stock and "took the liberty" of testing them together and 'they' started and allowed access to the BIOS screen......which is the limit of the steps he took. He removed the CPU, cleaned it up and refitted the LGA1700 socket guard etc, boxed up and to be dispatched tomorrow on their 24 hr service.

PS I asked, do they routinely flash the BIOS and he said no.
I mentioned my discussion with Gigabyte eSupport and he said typically BIOS flashing if there is there for CPU compatibility reasons.
Note ~ the eSupport reassured me that even though they say to flash the BIOS to make it work with nVidia RTX3060...............it (now, I told them at the outset that my GPU was a Gigabyte one) seems that their own brand of the RTX3060 (integration) was AOK even with BIOS version F1....and the newer F4 BIOS was aimed at the compatibility of the other brands of RTX3060.

So all being well "all will be well".

PPS cynic and 'belt & braces' person that I am......as mentioned I took photos of the items returned and will be checking the serial numbers against the numbers on the boxes. However, I found an Intel phone app to get the CPU serial number from the 2D barcode on the CPU. It even worked by printing the photo of the returned CPU and the number of course tallies with the box

Edit and FWIW this is the Intel page and app....I went it Google Store for it

Overview of Intel® Reverse Logistic Toolkit

Describes Intel® Reverse Logistics Toolkit and how to use it to find your Intel® processor serial number.

www.intel.co.uk

Lastly, all being well the re-build will go 100% AOK and this time I will, as mentioned (somewhere above) start with a vanilla install of the Win 10 OS....just need to have all the elements to hand to install "my stuff"....sods law says I miss something.

The one pain as I see it, re-doing my Outlook 2007 emails folders because I cannot find a way to somehow copy the folder structure and import that into the new installation
Oh, another one is installing my HP Laser....though on WiFi it needs the USB cable link first.....now where did I put that particular cable

 

[Cockney]

OK further resolution update.

The tech guy at the supplier, tested the MB and the CPU and found both faulty.......his testing was not intended to discern what & in what way the failure occurred but the items will be sent back to the distro/ manufacturer. When I asked, he simply said sometimes equipment just fails and 'they' declare it so.

So, he took a new MB & CPU from stock and "took the liberty" of testing them together and 'they' started and allowed access to the BIOS screen......which is the limit of the steps he took. He removed the CPU, cleaned it up and refitted the LGA1700 socket guard etc, boxed up and to be dispatched tomorrow on their 24 hr service.

PS I asked, do they routinely flash the BIOS and he said no.
I mentioned my discussion with Gigabyte eSupport and he said typically BIOS flashing if there is there for CPU compatibility reasons.
Note ~ the eSupport reassured me that even though they say to flash the BIOS to make it work with nVidia RTX3060...............it (now, I told them at the outset that my GPU was a Gigabyte one) seems that their own brand of the RTX3060 (integration) was AOK even with BIOS version F1....and the newer F4 BIOS was aimed at the compatibility of the other brands of RTX3060.

So all being well "all will be well".

PPS cynic and 'belt & braces' person that I am......as mentioned I took photos of the items returned and will be checking the serial numbers against the numbers on the boxes. However, I found an Intel phone app to get the CPU serial number from the 2D barcode on the CPU. It even worked by printing the photo of the returned CPU and the number of course tallies with the box

Edit and FWIW this is the Intel page and app....I went it Google Store for it

Overview of Intel® Reverse Logistic Toolkit

Describes Intel® Reverse Logistics Toolkit and how to use it to find your Intel® processor serial number.

www.intel.co.uk

Lastly, all being well the re-build will go 100% AOK and this time I will, as mentioned (somewhere above) start with a vanilla install of the Win 10 OS....just need to have all the elements to hand to install "my stuff"....sods law says I miss something.

The one pain as I see it, re-doing my Outlook 2007 emails folders because I cannot find a way to somehow copy the folder structure and import that into the new installation
Oh, another one is installing my HP Laser....though on WiFi it needs the USB cable link first.....now where did I put that particular cable

If your old outlook was running on imap the folders should repopulate when you log in.
If it was on pop3 I find the best way is to copy the .pst file from your old installation, then tell the new installation to use 2 .pst files. ( with the new one the install sets up as the default.)

 

[Box Brownie]

If your old outlook was running on imap the folders should repopulate when you log in.
If it was on pop3 I find the best way is to copy the .pst file from your old installation, then tell the new installation to use 2 .pst files. ( with the new one the install sets up as the default.)

Thanks for your insights

Yes, POP3 and all Outlook settings to leave emails on server for 60 days (important see * below). The .PST file is on my G drive.

So once up & running I will install my MS office SBE 2007 and before letting Outlook get new emails I will point it to the location of the .pst file so once I have recreated each email account it will collect outstanding emails since I duplicated (cloned) the G drive*

But do I read what you say correctly, that the .pst also contains the folder structure I created to separate out the various mailboxes contents

 

[Paulie-W]

Fingers crossed, mate

What a ballache it has been...

 

[Cockney]

Thanks for your insights

Yes, POP3 and all Outlook settings to leave emails on server for 60 days (important see * below). The .PST file is on my G drive.

So once up & running I will install my MS office SBE 2007 and before letting Outlook get new emails I will point it to the location of the .pst file so once I have recreated each email account it will collect outstanding emails since I duplicated (cloned) the G drive*

But do I read what you say correctly, that the .pst also contains the folder structure I created to separate out the various mailboxes contents

The old.pst file (and or archive, if you have one.) Will hold all the mails and folders stored locally on your old installation.
When you do the new install and set up your email again Outlook will generate a new pst file. When you're up and running go into accounts and there is a tab for pst files, click add and select wherever your old pst file is.
Next time you open outlook you will have your new folders and seperately all your old folders.
There are other ways of doing it, like importing from the old pst, but in my experience the above is the best way.
Just keep backup copies of your old pst files and you can try a different approach if it doesn't suit.

PS edit. Sorry, just noticed you're still going with the cloned drive. ( I wouldn't).
Give it a try and see what outlook performs like from the cloned install first.

 

[Box Brownie]

The old.pst file (and or archive, if you have one.) Will hold all the mails and folders stored locally on your old installation.
When you do the new install and set up your email again Outlook will generate a new pst file. When you're up and running go into accounts and there is a tab for pst files, click add and select wherever your old pst file is.
Next time you open outlook you will have your new folders and seperately all your old folders.
There are other ways of doing it, like importing from the old pst, but in my experience the above is the best way.
Just keep backup copies of your old pst files and you can try a different approach if it doesn't suit.

PS edit. Sorry, just noticed you're still going with the cloned drive. ( I wouldn't).
Give it a try and see what outlook performs like from the cloned install first.

I see.....so the .pst file does hold all the folder structure

No, the OS will be a fresh vanilla install but when I talk the clone above it is the G data drive where I currently have the .pst file in use

 

[ancient_mariner]

Just to say, I did what @Cockney described recently and, just as it did before, the folder structure copied over fine.

 

[Box Brownie]

Just to say, I did what @Cockney described recently and, just as it did before, the folder structure copied over fine.

Ah! thanks.....re-enforces my (hopeful) understanding that the .pst file not only has the emails themselves but the folder structure I created to separate them out by address & origins.

PS I was reading that the archive.pst has the folder stucture and have just checked the date on my one and it is like the .pst @ todays date. Hmmmmm? maybe makes sense to take a copy of the archive.pst just in case ???

PPS I have looked again at what the GUI tells me about the file location and it says this



So its says the .pst file has the "Personal Folders" ~ phew? All(?) I have to do is refresh my various mailboxes passwords and should be AOK

 

[Box Brownie]

Fingers crossed, mate

What a ballache it has been...

Yes, but I am an optimist.

One thing I am thinking of doing as an interim step as I get it setup with my programs etc., is to run it in tandem (so to speak) by connecting up to my monitor which has both DP and HDMI ports which can be manually switched as to which source is displayed.......so that I can change as needed before retiring the old PC

 

[gman]

That's incredibly unlucky to have received both a faulty MB and CPU! Hopefully all will go well with the rebuild, and mind to touch a radiator before handling the replacements - the last thing you'd want is to fry them after all this hassle! lol Or pop an anti static wrist strap on if you have one.

 

[Box Brownie]

That's incredibly unlucky to have received both a faulty MB and CPU! Hopefully all will go well with the rebuild, and mind to touch a radiator before handling the replacements - the last thing you'd want is to fry them after all this hassle! lol Or pop an anti static wrist strap on if you have one.

It seems "sods law" can strike modern technology!

Re: ESD precautions
I have always used a wrist strap to a confirmed earthing point (my long mains extension cable has a metal frame & reel which is earthed).

Plus I sit the motherboard on the ESD bag whilst prepping it.

NB Gigabyte eSupport confirmed my choice of ram is good

 

[Snapsh0t]

That's incredibly unlucky to have received both a faulty MB and CPU! Hopefully all will go well with the rebuild, and mind to touch a radiator before handling the replacements - the last thing you'd want is to fry them after all this hassle! lol Or pop an anti static wrist strap on if you have one.

Many, many years ago when I was in a second-level engineering support group in the City we had an ESD training session and all the engineers were issued with a kit of anti-static 'prayer mat', selection of wristbands and a lead to earth the mat. One of my group was called out to assist a senior first-level engineer and found he had his mat connected to a filing cabinet. Great, but the cabinet was in the middle of an expanse of nylon carpet.....

 

[Jungli]

Many, many years ago when I was in a second-level engineering support group in the City we had an ESD training session and all the engineers were issued with a kit of anti-static 'prayer mat', selection of wristbands and a lead to earth the mat. One of my group was called out to assist a senior first-level engineer and found he had his mat connected to a filing cabinet. Great, but the cabinet was in the middle of an expanse of nylon carpet.....

Ride the lightening!

 

[Box Brownie]

Many, many years ago when I was in a second-level engineering support group in the City we had an ESD training session and all the engineers were issued with a kit of anti-static 'prayer mat', selection of wristbands and a lead to earth the mat. One of my group was called out to assist a senior first-level engineer and found he had his mat connected to a filing cabinet. Great, but the cabinet was in the middle of an expanse of nylon carpet.....

"all the gear but no idea" comes to mind!

Wherever there is mains socket, there is a ground......so no excuses IMO.

FWIW I have both a wrist strap and mat. But tend to favour the strap where I have the ESD bag to rest the motherboard on..... especially as I cannot connect strap & mat without buying another connector.