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Looks interesting http://www.elinchrom.com/battery/elb1200.html
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New Elinchrom 1200W/S location Lights
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Yes, lots of power in a lighter box. But... I actually find it a bit depressing.
Elinchrom is one of the world's biggest and most respected manufacturers of pro spec flash equipment, possibly the biggest. Hardly earth-shattering is it? Should have been launched several years ago (when the lithium battery tech was readily available) and it actually does nothing new - old tech, new frock. Price? We'll see, but no change from £2k, maybe nothing from £3k. Meanwhile, look at what has been pouring out of China in just the last few weeks http://flashhavoc.com/
So alternatively, you could pair up a couple of Godox AD600 units into one 1200Ws head - same power, same weight, half the cost and with way more versatility. The Chinese are lighting the way with innovative new products and cutting edge tech at sensible prices. They've redrawn the rules, that no longer include wasting tons of cash on idiotic paragliding videos. I hope the title is not ironic
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI2qtw1rFkI&feature=youtu.be
Elinchrom is one of the world's biggest and most respected manufacturers of pro spec flash equipment, possibly the biggest. Hardly earth-shattering is it? Should have been launched several years ago (when the lithium battery tech was readily available) and it actually does nothing new - old tech, new frock. Price? We'll see, but no change from £2k, maybe nothing from £3k. Meanwhile, look at what has been pouring out of China in just the last few weeks http://flashhavoc.com/
So alternatively, you could pair up a couple of Godox AD600 units into one 1200Ws head - same power, same weight, half the cost and with way more versatility. The Chinese are lighting the way with innovative new products and cutting edge tech at sensible prices. They've redrawn the rules, that no longer include wasting tons of cash on idiotic paragliding videos. I hope the title is not ironic
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Saw this yesterday.. the video is impressive. The final image - rather like the technology - is much less so.
I wonder about Elinchrom's place in the market? I've not been doing this all that long but it seems that at one point Elinchrom and Bowens were the base standard for pro-level kit Pixapro, Godox, Lencarta et al have rapidly moved into that space, Bowens have all but vanished while Profoto and Broncolor - rightly or wrongly - claim the high end.
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The Flash Centre are taking some ELB1200's to the photography show for anyone wanting to get hands on, kinda hoping to blag ours there as apparently they are not being released until summer 
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especially outdoors, I'd far rather have the weight of the generator and the pack at the bottom of a stand, and a lightweight head.
HMMM I definitely can't imagine what inspired this....!
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I don't think I could go back to having heavy heads with batteries after using a pack and head system, I think my quadra heads are like 250g and tiny enough to hide easily or even use clamps on branches etc.
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The industry giants are asleep. Of the major European brands, only Profoto seems to have one eye open though they need to rethink pricing (which basically means China). Flash is moving outdoors with big, mobile power. Elinchrom has got that bit covered, but has missed the small/light, flexible and affordable part with full remote control auto-TTL. That needs IGBT-regulated power and Elinchrom has no IGBT products.
IGBT is not new, from the 70s, but it took the Chinese to develop it beyond on-camera speedlights. IGBT can do things that conventional voltage-regulated power simply cannot, like auto-TTL flash metering, proper pulsed high-speed sync, and very fast flash durations. Add a lithium battery and you can do amazing things, then throw in some fresh concept thinking and you have the Godox AD200 that, IMHO, is a potentially revolutionary new way of how flash units are designed and used, ie completely modular - select the components and put them together to suit the task. This is not just evolutionary, it's disruptive.
That's not to say that conventional voltage-regulated flash has no future. Absolutely not, it has some fundamental advantages too and the Elinchrom ELC Pro HD monolights are a great example of just how good it can be - but the game has changed. How about 'if you can't beat them, join them'? Elinchrom is already half in bed with Phottix, who have the IGBT technology and manufacturing. On the other hand, Elinchrom is a huge global brand with distribution and service networks everywhere - and that is the big thing that the Chinese manufacturers urgently need.
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I'm intrigued to have a play with a few chinese products at the Photography Show, but most look like there's bits that are just terribly badly thought out, little things like handles that won't tighten properly, supports that stick out so it doesn't fit neatly in a case, that sort of thing, and some bits that plain and simple feel like they're going to fall off in your hand, let alone with daily use. And I know that that R&D to make things 'just work' is a part of what I pay for with profoto, but china seem so keen to either plagarise, but not where it matters, or manufacture to a price point or headline new feature, rather than come out with a really great product..
Little stuff like this, however, is bloody brilliant if it works:
I still want a flash with a laser pointer built in to help line it up when using grids etc...
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I wouldn't worry so much about Elinchrom as they have viable and desirable products covering a range of price points, I'd also agree the ELB is a fairly uninspired incremental upgrade but it's at least filling some market demand as there are plenty of photographers who still see the old RX Speed AS packs as desirable besides maybe the weight and in spite of the expense.
I could see them putting a battery powered monoblock somewhere between the D-lite and ELC Pro ranges in terms of performance and price, most companies don't seem to like invalidating existing ranges though and it would overlap a bit with the Quadra/ELB 400 (maybe?).
Let's not talk about Bowens though, that's just a slow motion pile up on the motorway.
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Its a fair point this has been a long time coming, particularly with so little choice in the 1200W/S market.
Though it may not be the latest technology, there’s nothing else like it on the market, yes, there are similar products, but they all have plenty of reasons for me not to buy them.
Apart from the fact as you mentioned, the lack of any notable UK supplier/repairer they all have short comings, but that could be the reason they’re cheaper, I’m no engineer so I don’t know.
Apart from the obvious lack of build quality ranging from poor to acceptable (though I’ve not seen the ELB 1200 in the flesh, if its like the ELB 400 build, it’ll be pretty tough). None of the Chinese stuff offer very fast recycle times, or short flash durations at full power, which is where it counts for me.
The Godox system is interesting, and I looked at it closely, but the idea of two heads hanging off a light stand doesn’t sit well with my OCD for lighting tidiness! But also it too suffers from slow recycle and long flash duration at full power, and the lack of significant dealer support.
I’ve always had Profoto because the quality is superb, they’re tough, and I know if I get any problems I can either get it repaired or hire replacements very easily and quickly. However since they stopped producing the B3 (their 1200W/S pack and head) and the nearest they do to that now is the stupidly expensive B4, I’m thinking its time to change. I need to buy another light and this announcement has come at an opportune moment.
Obviously no price yet for the Eli, but I suspect as the ELB 400 is around £1.4k the ELB 1200 will probably be more like £2.2k but we’ll know for sure at TPS.
It might not be very exiting to you Richard, as maybe you’re coming at it more from a technology side of things, but on a practical level, as a purely location photographer who works outdoors in all conditions, trying to over power the sun, short, (full power) flash durations, fast recycle times, weather proofing, from a reputable company with plenty of dealer outlets, are very exiting to me.
Oh, and a 3 year warranty ;-)
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Yep, I can only think the designers have never actually worked outdoors. Having spoken to the the guys that repair Profoto lighting, they're doing quiet nicely from repairing B1 units that have blown over!
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I can't disagree with any of that Mark! I would bet my house that the ELB 1200 will be a stonking product (of its type) and just what the doctor ordered for a lot of users. I didn't mean to diss the ELB 1200 as such, but I'm an Elinchrom fan (and user), and it's more what they haven't launched that I'm really getting at. The way things are heading, I'm unlikely to be an Elinchrom user when it's time for the next upgrade.
As you say, one thing voltage-regulated flash is good at is fast flash durations at high power, but I can't find any details on that for the ELB 1200. I suspect the answer might be complicated, according to the head used and settings configurations, ie super-slow with the HS head, and respectably nippy with the Action head etc. Be nice to know though. I'd also like to know how much light is lost in the cable, and how much brightness is lost with the Action head - key questions for potential buyers.
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Could be interesting if they do Mike. The new Eli gives a display of the flash duration, so if they don't match it'll be "Pistols at dawn" between Eli and Sekonic ;-)
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I have tested the Godox AD600, AD360II and V860II and all seem to match the specs (or be slightly better), justing waiting on my sample AD200 to test that
I have been told that Sekonic and Elinchrom are looking at how possible it is to meter the Hi-Sync head
Mike
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LOL You mean your flash durations meter? That'd be fun, though I'd be surprised if they're not exactly as claimed - I've always found Elinchrom's t.5 numbers to be spot on. I'd just like to know what the claimed figures actually are!
Measuring flash brightness though with any degree of meaningful accuracy or comparison would be pretty difficult at the show.
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As always "The devil is in the detail"! this table should give you some more info. On the face of it, Its not looking quite so attractive, until you dig deeper, and see with the A head on 33% power (approx.400w/s) has aT0.5 of 1/6060, so roughly T1.0 of 1/2000.
So shooting with a leaf shutter capable of syncing up to 1/2000th, in theory makes this a very powerful flash.
And if my appalling maths are anything to go buy, shooting at that setting, its the power output equivalent of 3200w/s when compared to me shooting my 250th x-sync speed DSLR.
All in theory I stress !
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Question, I don't use lights outdoors or in a studio, one thing that I have always wondered. If you have a set of two lights, lets say A & B and only one battery pack (light A) and can't have cables running across the floor to (light B) (trip hazard) do you need another battery pack for light B? Or is there some magic wireless thingy that sorts this issue?
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The packs usually have two ports split either 50/50 or 66/33 for connecting two lights. They are not independent though. Changing the power setting changes both lights. If you want independent control of both lights then you need a battery pack per light.
Regards...
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Thanks for the reply, yes I had sussed the ratio issue via Google but was more concerned about running cables between the Battery Pack and the lights if there is a trip hazard issue.
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Which is why Lencarta have their Safari 1200Ws system, 2 x 600Ws units, free standing, no wires running between them, wirelessly controlled and no power setting limits - i.e. one head can be set to 600Ws and the other to 18.85Ws if required, or anywhere in between.
https://www.lencarta.com/studio-lighting/portable-flash-systems?product_id=310&ov=1
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Erm... yes. And I have my wireless 2000Ws system - 20 speedlights, all with individual power control
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Well at least they have a sense of humour.
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OK, so let's look at the options here
1. The person who typed that figure has fat fingers
2. They meant to make this announcement on April 1st.
3. They are being seriously squeezed by certain Chinese manufacturers who are making it extremely difficult for reputable businesses to operate at a fair profit, and they no longer see any prospect of being able to continue to operate in the Goldilocks region of the market. This leaves them with a simple choice
a. cut prices to the point where they can compete on price, but where they can't make a profit or
b. move up a notch and present a real challenge to Profoto, which has a brand premium that is currently perceived to be greater than their own. It that's the intention then that would leave Bron at the top, and would place Elinchrom on a par with Profoto (which in my view doesn't even deserve its current position in terms of performance/price/VFM)
I know which option I think they've taken, and they're right..
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That's the high-end professional sector though Garry, tiny market.
And if a product like that appeals - and it looks extremely capable, both indoors and out - then you'll probably need two or three of them. Seriously, how many professionals can justify that kind of expense in business terms? And is there room for three competing brands?
And if a product like that appeals - and it looks extremely capable, both indoors and out - then you'll probably need two or three of them. Seriously, how many professionals can justify that kind of expense in business terms? And is there room for three competing brands?
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Richard, you're right - within the confines of the high end professional photography sector in the UK, which is indeed tiny.
But look outside the UK, and particuarly to eastern Asia, and the situation is very different, with massive chains of pro studios that run as production lines.
And look beyond pro photography altogether, look at the markets that I've been personally involved with, very sucessfully, for years, e.g.
Education (including further and higher education)
Military
Health
Law enforcement
HM Government generally
HMG Security Services (a real growth area and one that doesn't seem to have ANY budgetary constraints)
These are the markets that are interested, not in cost but in
1. Suitability
2. Reliabilty
3. A high level of both technical expertise and customer support. Some of these buyers are only able to deal with suppliers that pass their often very stringent vetting process, which rules out many would be suppliers.
And I don't, at present, see Bron as a competing brand. Yes, they dominate the market in the pro studios, but their marketing is virtually non existent even within this small field, and doesn't seem to exist at all outside of it.
Both Profoto and Elinchrom are strong when it comes to marketing, and if my guess is correct then I see them competing with each other but with nobody else in the public sector marketplace
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You make a good set of points but isn't that reaching a bit from one thing posted on a flyer for TPS?
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OK, so let's look at the options here
b. move up a notch and present a real challenge to Profoto, which has a brand premium that is currently perceived to be greater than their own. It that's the intention then that would leave Bron at the top, and would place Elinchrom on a par with Profoto (which in my view doesn't even deserve its current position in terms of performance/price/VFM)
A bit like Vauxhall trying to compete with BMW. Yes, you can pay 50k for the Vauxhall equivalent of a BMW M3 but would you?
Regards...
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Garry Edwards
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Yes, it's a bit of a stretch, but it's also a very logical one - it's what I would do if I was them, and if my view of the way the world of lighting is going, it's not only the best option but the only one. Time will tell whether I'm right or not. Am I the only person to have noticed some pretty steep price increases during the last few months? Brexit has resulted in a 20% effective devaluation of the £, but even so it seems to me that there is some evidence beyond what's in their flyer...
But for that analogy to work, you would first have to question whether BMW really is in a different class to Vauxhall or whether most of the differences are little more than hype
And anyway, is anyone questioning whether or not Vauxhall is actually capable of upping their game? Elinchrom has been around for a very long time, and they have proved their capability.
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Profoto B4 kit sets you back £7100 inc vat...
This elinchrom kit seems pretty good, though 3 and 1.7s recycle times kinda disagrees with them describing it as perfect for adventure sports.
This elinchrom kit seems pretty good, though 3 and 1.7s recycle times kinda disagrees with them describing it as perfect for adventure sports.
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Disagree Garry
Pushing prices up blindly, in the belief that there's a non-price-sensitive 'hard-core' sector that will always pay is a one way street to nowhere. Look at Bron.That's an extremely risky strategy at the best of times (ALL sectors are ultimately price sensitive - they just take a little more time to adjust) and you can only do it with uniquely special and unique brands with strong emotional appeal (or rather, irrational appeal) like Leica and Hasselblad, posh cars, Rolex etc. Lighting manufacturers just don't have that hook IMHO.
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From a brand perception point of view, BMW are in a different league to Vauxhall. Lots of people aspire to a BMW. not so much a Vauxhall. From a technical point of view, its arguable as to whether BMW are worth the extra I would agree.
True. A Broncolor Move 1200 pack is just over 5k. If spending that amount of money I'd save the extra and get the Bron to be honest.
Regards...
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The (brilliant and insanely fast) profoto Pro-10 pack got released the other day, list price just under £10k.Disagree Garry
That's an extremely risky strategy at the best of times (ALL sectors are ultimately price sensitive - they just take a little more time to adjust) and you can only do it with uniquely special and unique brands with strong emotional appeal (or rather, irrational appeal) like Leica and Hasselblad, posh cars, Rolex etc. Lighting manufacturers just don't have that hook IMHO.
Every rental house in London has stocked up.
Only *so* price sensitive....
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What do they mean by this?
Longest flash duration (t0.5): 1/800s*
*Comparable with 1/2,000s (t0.5) in conventional studio flashes.
Mike
Longest flash duration (t0.5): 1/800s*
*Comparable with 1/2,000s (t0.5) in conventional studio flashes.
Mike