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jerry12953

jerry12953

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Jeremy Moore
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Hi,

First of all let me say that I am not a computer expert and nor do I want to be! My current pc dates back about ten years and while it still does most of what I need it to, it has problems with Topaz Denoise AI, taking in the region of 30 minutes to process each image. And while it is doing that I can more or less nothing else with it.

It is a DELL small form factor PC and I'm quite happy to replace it with another Dell SFF model. I've had a quick look at the Dell website(s) and I can afford one of the intel i5 processors which seem quite well reviewed. Tick!

Would I be correct in thinking that I would be best advised to go for a separate video card to get the best out of my software etc (LR and Topaz at the moment) - rather than an integrated card?

Unless I am mistaken, it appears that most Dells come with a 256Gb SSd drive only, whereas my current one is 2Tb HD with a 256Gb SSD drive in combination. How would i get round the need for more storage even if it's only a standard hard drive?

Please excuse my ignorance if my understanding is wrong somewhere! Many thanks in advance.
 
Personally I would consider a PC in a bigger case as it will give you more room for storage expansion, a mid size ATX case would be fine.
Also if you can afford it go for an i7 and at least 16gb ram.
And yes, go for one that has a dedicated graphics card otherwise the system memory will be shared with the graphics.
If you phone del to place the order rather online, there might be better upgrade options like going for a 1tb SSD.
If you want to let me know what your budget is I'd be more than happy to look at the specs for you.
I would also look at other companies like PC Specialists who also have a very good reputaion.
 
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hashcake said:
Personally I would consider a PC in a bigger case as it will give you more room for storage expansion, a mid size ATX case would be fine.
Also if you can afford it go for an i7 and at least 16gb ram.
And yes, go for one that has a dedicated graphics card otherwise the system memory will be shared with the graphics.
If you phone del to place the order rather online, there might be better upgrade options like going for a 1tb SSD.
If you want to let me know what your budget is I'd be more than happy to look at the specs for you.
I would also look at other companies like PC Specialists who also have a very good reputaion.
Click to expand...


All good points and I will definitely speak to Dell personally before making a decision (and try PCSpecialist) . Unfortunately I just don't have room fir a bigger case, though.

I'd be happy to spend in the region of £800, I think.
 
jerry12953 said:
All good points and I will definitely speak to Dell personally before making a decision (and try PCSpecialist) . Unfortunately I just don't have room fir a bigger case, though.

I'd be happy to spend in the region of £800, I think.
Click to expand...

I think you might struggle to find a PC with a micro ATX case that has a seperate graphics card.
I've had a quick look on the Dell website and I didn't see any that are using a mirco ATX case.
I find it odd that Dell are only using 265gb NVME drives in their destops.
I bought my laptop from them last year with a 512GB NVME as standard so it might be a good idea to talke to PC Specialist.
This is the only Dell with a graphics card but slightly over your budget.
www.dell.com

Dell XPS Desktop with up to 11th Gen Intel Processor | Dell UK

Create without limits using the all-new XPS Desktop. Featuring powerful performance, a minimalist design and a highly expandable chassis.
www.dell.com
I'm also wondering if prices have increased due to the word wild silicon shortage.
I recently upgraded my Laptop to 16gb ram and a friend said the prices have increased.
 
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Thanks for more suggestions. My current Dell is one of their Optiplex (business) range. I'm fairly sure it originally came with an integrated graphics card but someone put a separate graphics display card in (GeForce210), so there must be room for one inside a SFF case. I'll keep looking and try phoning around as you suggest.
 
I think storage wise - you'd be best served with an external USB SSD - as you use LR you'll want the catalogue on that along with your RAWs. Something like a Samsung T5/T7 drive.

Backup wise - best cloud option is Amazon prime if you are a member - unlimited photo storage.

I'd recommend you stretch the budget if possible, 16gb of RAM is very tepid and won't future proof you for long.

Re Graphics card - a separate one is best - but if you just use LR and PS you don't need a powerful one - these suites don't really use much GPU power. Different story if you use DXO, C1pro or On1 which can utilise GPU and high core count machines more.

Another option is a Mac M1 mini for budget and latest versions of LR/PS are now being optimised for the new M1 chips.

If you've got no huge interest in PC's a Mac Mini might be just what the doctor ordered. And they're tiny - and if space being an issue....
 
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Can you also share your PC specs? CPU, RAM, GPU? It will help give you an idea of how much performance improvement to expect.
 
Topaz AI software can be graphics card demanding......

Topaz specs page

Home | Topaz Labs Docs

Get an overview of our features, integrations, and how to use them.
topazlabs.com topazlabs.com
 
Box Brownie said:
Topaz AI software can be graphics card demanding......

Topaz specs page

Home | Topaz Labs Docs

Get an overview of our features, integrations, and how to use them.
topazlabs.com topazlabs.com
Click to expand...
True but now is really not the time to buy a GPU if it can be avoided. Prices are sky high because of chip shortage.
 
Mauri3205 said:
True but now is really not the time to buy a GPU if it can be avoided. Prices are sky high because of chip shortage.
Click to expand...

In principle it depends what the Dell can offer on specs to not need a GPU upgrade.
Windows 10 64 bit
And as min spec for other aspects
Additional System Requirements: 8GB of RAM, 2GB of VRAM (for GPU-based speed). DirectX 12 on Windows.
 
Mauri3205 said:
True but now is really not the time to buy a GPU if it can be avoided. Prices are sky high because of chip shortage.
Click to expand...

I thought that was largely down to the higher end graphic cards that are highly in demand?
You are correct, a quick look on ebuyer show no stock of Ati and Nvidia graphics cards above £100
 
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Box Brownie said:
In principle it depends what the Dell can offer on specs to not need a GPU upgrade.
Windows 10 64 bit
And as min spec for other aspects
Additional System Requirements: 8GB of RAM, 2GB of VRAM (for GPU-based speed). DirectX 12 on Windows.
Click to expand...
All the likes of dell can do is decide which graphic chip to use on there motherboards and that's limited.
So no matter what they do it's never going to compare with using a dedicated graphics.
 
jerry12953 said:
Thanks for more suggestions. My current Dell is one of their Optiplex (business) range. I'm fairly sure it originally came with an integrated graphics card but someone put a separate graphics display card in (GeForce210), so there must be room for one inside a SFF case. I'll keep looking and try phoning around as you suggest.
Click to expand...
hashcake said:
All the likes of dell can do is decide which graphic chip to use on there motherboards and that's limited.
So no matter what they do it's never going to compare with using a dedicated graphics.
Click to expand...

Mention by @jerry12953 of the geforce 210 makes me wonder if something like this 'low profile newer card would fit the Dell SFF cases?

MSI NVIDIA GEFORCE GT 730 N730K-2GD3H/LP Graphics Card '2GB DDR3, 902MHz, Low Consumption, VGA, DVI-D, HDMI, HTPC, Silent Passive Fanless Cooling System' - MSI

Buy MSI NVIDIA GEFORCE GT 730 N730K-2GD3H/LP Graphics Card '2GB DDR3, 902MHz, Low Consumption, VGA, DVI-D, HDMI, HTPC, Silent Passive Fanless Cooling System' at Amazon.
www.amazon.co.uk
 
Mauri3205 said:
Dell refurbished. Really good value for money, my next PC will definitely be from here.

www.dell.com

Certified Refurbished Cheap Laptops, PCs & Servers: Dell Outlet | Dell UK

Certified Refurbished laptops, desktop gaming computers, monitors, docks & servers on the cheap from Dell Outlet. READY TO SHIP laptops for sale.
www.dell.com
Click to expand...

Yes, I'll keep my eye on what they have available but I need to get the right spec.

Mauri3205 said:
Can you also share your PC specs? CPU, RAM, GPU? It will help give you an idea of how much performance improvement to expect.
Click to expand...

Current spec -

Intel Core 2 Quad CPU Q9400 @ 2.66 Ghz

8 Gb RAM

NVIDIA GeForce 210

Combined 250 Gb SSD / 2 Tb HD
 
jerry12953 said:
@ Box Brownie - There's actually a PC in the Dell outlet with that video card in it but it is said to be terribly slow and gets very bad reviews.......
Click to expand...

Oooops! I linked to the wrong, I thought the price was so good and it was a 730 model

So apologies here is an example i was trying to show......but sadly silly money :(

Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 Ti OC Low Profile 4G GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB GDDR5 - graphics cards (NVIDIA, GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, 7680 x 4320 pixels, 1303 MHz, 1417 MHz, 7680 x 4320 pixels), Black : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

Buy
www.amazon.co.uk

IMO the 1050 is the lowest spec to aim for......I use the GTX 1050 Ti 4GB vram
 
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The best PC with a rubbish screen will not deliver good results if post processing.
Its relatively easy to upgrade and extend the life of a PC, but the only way to improve a monitor (calibration excepted) is to replace it with another having a higher spec.
My advice would be to change your graphics card together together with adding extra external storage, and put the remainder of your budget into the best monitor you can afford.
 
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vintageman said:
The best PC with a rubbish screen will not deliver good results if post processing.
Its relatively easy to upgrade and extend the life of a PC, but the only way to improve a monitor (calibration excepted) is to replace it with another having a higher spec.
If you can add a graphics card to your SFF pc I would do that and add extra external storage and put the remainder of your budget into the best monitor you can afford.
Click to expand...


I do have a pretty good screen already.
 
How about this for a spec?

Intel Core 10th Generation i7-10700 Processor (8 Core, Up to 4.80GHz, 16MB Cache, 65W)

16GB (2X8GB) Up to 3200MHz DDR4 UDIMM Non-ECC

512GB PCIe M.2 NVMe Class 40 Solid State Drive

NVIDIA Quadro P1000 4GB (4 mDP to DP adapter)

240W up to 92% efficient Power Supply (80Plus Platinum)

I'd need to fit a hard drive, but that can't be difficult (for someone who knows what they're doing - ie not me.......)








 
I would go for a larger power supply of 350-500W to give you some future flexibility on GPU choice should you want to upgrade.
 
jerry12953 said:
How about this for a spec?

Intel Core 10th Generation i7-10700 Processor (8 Core, Up to 4.80GHz, 16MB Cache, 65W)

16GB (2X8GB) Up to 3200MHz DDR4 UDIMM Non-ECC

512GB PCIe M.2 NVMe Class 40 Solid State Drive

NVIDIA Quadro P1000 4GB (4 mDP to DP adapter)

240W up to 92% efficient Power Supply (80Plus Platinum)

I'd need to fit a hard drive, but that can't be difficult (for someone who knows what they're doing - ie not me.......)








Click to expand...

It's not terrible, I'd worry less about the HDD and get that RAM up a bit to 32gb and if possible 64gb. You can use USB SSD's that are blazing fast anyway.
 
jerry12953 said:
How about this for a spec?

Intel Core 10th Generation i7-10700 Processor (8 Core, Up to 4.80GHz, 16MB Cache, 65W)

16GB (2X8GB) Up to 3200MHz DDR4 UDIMM Non-ECC

512GB PCIe M.2 NVMe Class 40 Solid State Drive

NVIDIA Quadro P1000 4GB (4 mDP to DP adapter)

240W up to 92% efficient Power Supply (80Plus Platinum)

I'd need to fit a hard drive, but that can't be difficult (for someone who knows what they're doing - ie not me.......)








Click to expand...

Honestly you would be much better served by an average laptop. I don't know how much you would expect to pay for this but apart from half decent CPU the specs are very low and particularly the graphics card. It would probably struggle to play 4K video on youtube let alone handle Gigapixel AI. Better get the intel integrated graphics and may as well get something portable if that is the case.

SFTPhotography said:
It's not terrible, I'd worry less about the HDD and get that RAM up a bit to 32gb and if possible 64gb. You can use USB SSD's that are blazing fast anyway.
Click to expand...

32GB is absolute minimum for a working creative today. I have fully exhausted mine and crashed it a few times working with panoramas. I'm looking to expand to 64GB ASAP.
 
jerry12953 said:
I absolutely refuse to do any editing on a laptop! Suggesting I do so is like asking a Canon user to buy a Nikon.

Yes, I do some panoramas but as I use m4/3 now the file sizes are quite small.
Click to expand...

Laptop will plug into your BenQ monitor though...

I still think given your budget, the direction of LR/PS you are probably best served with an M1 Mac Mini and a Samsung T7 external USB SSD plus USB HDD.

Re the Nikon comment - you'd enjoy superior dynamic range - and my experience of both systems is Nikon camera's tend to be better, but the Canon shorter lenses tend to be better. Certain Canon lenses are gems, as are certain Nikons but I would be quite happy with a 5ds and a 16-35 Canon lens for sure :D

But nothing I've handled beats my Pentax 645z - or the glass that goes on it and once you've had that - only a phase one or Hasselblad or maybe GFX100s will do.
 
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Tori_T said:
You're being a little pessimistic there. An old Core2 Duo/Intel GM45 could handle that.
Click to expand...

2014 I5 can't handle that properly let alone support 60Hz at all. You must have some truly exceptional C2D there.


jerry12953 said:
I absolutely refuse to do any editing on a laptop! Suggesting I do so is like asking a Canon user to buy a Nikon.
Click to expand...

How about Sony? :love:

Seriously there is zero difference where you plugin all your peripherals. Well the difference is how well it runs and where you can take it when needed. That PC is not much good for today let alone 3 years later.
 
Considering my current PC was not top-of-the range when I bought it 10+ years ago, it's done pretty well.

It can still do all that I need it to BUT Topaz Denoise AI will chew through a file in about 30 mins and take just about all its processing power, hence the need to upgrade. But I'm not a power user.
 
jerry12953 said:
Considering my current PC was not top-of-the range when I bought it 10+ years ago, it's done pretty well.

It can still do all that I need it to BUT Topaz Denoise AI will chew through a file in about 30 mins and take just about all its processing power, hence the need to upgrade. But I'm not a power user.
Click to expand...

30mins...if something took 2 mins it would be utterly unacceptable. DXO photolab runs deep prime noise on a 645z file in a matter of a few seconds...and that grates as it is.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Honestly you would be much better served by an average laptop. I don't know how much you would expect to pay for this but apart from half decent CPU the specs are very low and particularly the graphics card. It would probably struggle to play 4K video on youtube let alone handle Gigapixel AI. Better get the intel integrated graphics and may as well get something portable if that is the case.
Click to expand...
Mmm, I have no problem playing 4k YT or videos to the TV with a 4th generation i5. And I think I was doing that with the integrated graphics too before I got a graphics card.

LongLensPhotography said:
32GB is absolute minimum for a working creative today. I have fully exhausted mine and crashed it a few times working with panoramas. I'm looking to expand to 64GB ASAP.
Click to expand...
Whilst lots of RAM is good, depending on use, I have had no problem with the above processor doing panoramas with 16Gb of RAM, and it is not the fastest RAM and as is of similar age/tech level of the processor. And that was before I got a graphics card too, I now have 32Gb of RAM, but the increase was to enhance the one PC game I play.

If I were the OP, I would determine what components are most useful for the planned tasks with the software planned to be used. Processor, RAM, Graphics card, where are the benefits for the compromises in budget to have least affect. Buying a complete system may limit options available for customisation, if any customisation is an option.

The form factor of the whole system already affects things to some degree, as smaller things cost more. ;) But also may limit the size of components that can fit in a small case if one were to build one for oneself.

Will any of the software benefit from multi threading?
Will having large amounts of RAM be of benefit up to a point, or just the sky's the limit?
Does the software take advantage of a graphics card or not?

Are there other things the computer is to be used for? The OP may not be planning on doing other things, but for some gaming is a consideration.

Just thinking out loud, :D because I have a day off work and it's raining outside. :( :LOL:
 
redhed17 said:
Mmm, I have no problem playing 4k YT or videos to the TV with a 4th generation i5. And I think I was doing that with the integrated graphics too before I got a graphics card.

Whilst lots of RAM is good, depending on use, I have had no problem with the above processor doing panoramas with 16Gb of RAM, and it is not the fastest RAM and as is of similar age/tech level of the processor. And that was before I got a graphics card too, I now have 32Gb of RAM, but the increase was to enhance the one PC game I play.

If I were the OP, I would determine what components are most useful for the planned tasks with the software planned to be used. Processor, RAM, Graphics card, where are the benefits for the compromises in budget to have least affect. Buying a complete system may limit options available for customisation, if any customisation is an option.

The form factor of the whole system already affects things to some degree, as smaller things cost more. ;) But also may limit the size of components that can fit in a small case if one were to build one for oneself.

Will any of the software benefit from multi threading?
Will having large amounts of RAM be of benefit up to a point, or just the sky's the limit?
Does the software take advantage of a graphics card or not?

Are there other things the computer is to be used for? The OP may not be planning on doing other things, but for some gaming is a consideration.

Just thinking out loud, :D because I have a day off work and it's raining outside. :( :LOL:
Click to expand...

The voice of reason speaks!

I realise that the SFF restriction I have given myself does affect my final choice of system. From what I've learned over the last few days I'm going to have to make do with a laptop sized graphics card which limits performance. But as I understand it the graphics card doesn't need to be super high performance for most processing tasks.

Would I be correct in believing that LR can take advantage of a separate GPU, though, even a fairly modest one ?

My current PC has 8Gb RAM so my thinking was that 16Gb would be a reasonable increase. As far as gaming is concerned, I have no interest in it at all.

If people want the fastest PC on the planet then that is up to them. I can neither afford it nor do i expect to ever be able to take advantage of it.

Thanks redhed17 for your thoughts and I'm glad (personally) that it was raining today.
 
LR can't make significant use of a graphics card, though almost all processing software apart from that sold by Adobe can.

Re spec: 16gb RAM, 11th gen i5, 2gb discreet graphics card, 500gb nvME SSD minimum (1tb better, 2tb betterer). That would be reasonably workable for normal editing.
 
One thing I would try is profiling your typical usage with the Task Manager:
www.howtogeek.com

Windows Task Manager: The Complete Guide

Here's a 5500+ word guide explaining each and every feature and technical term in Windows 10's Task Manager
www.howtogeek.com www.howtogeek.com
My Windows 10 laptop manages to use up about 4GB doing nothing very much. With a 36Mp image with multiple layers open in PS, a single layer image in Affinity Photo, an image directory open in NX Studio, plus a browser with a few tabs loaded, I might use another 6GB, still well under the 16GB it has installed. For me, 16 GB is enough for normal image editing. But someone else working with many layers or with several large images open at the same time could easily go over this - it all depends how you plan to use your PC. The Task Manager will also show you how your CPU cores are being used, any GPU usage, and which programs are thrashing the disk. Bring up the Task Manager when Topaz is doing its thing and see what seems to be limiting. With the SFF case, as with a laptop, you probably only have space for a single disk, so make it a big SSD. I've got a fair bit of software installed, which takes up around 200GB of disk space, so I wouldn't want anything smaller than my 1TB SSD. The next case size up would generally give you enough space to add at least one high capacity hard drive to keep the working copy of your images on, and of course the ability to add a graphics card if necessary.
 
jerry12953 said:
I'll have to see what comes up on the Dell Outlet;)...... . If that spec comes up again 'll probably go for it. I can't imagine I'd want to upgrade again in my lifetime. My current system lasted at least 10 years.

But thanks anyway.
Click to expand...

I would avoid Dell and try and source a build from somewhere else. I spec'd this at Overclockers, although I'm not sure if you'll need an OS. If so and want to keep the price down you can always downgrade the processor to a Ryzen 3


My basket at Overclockers UK:
  • 1 x OcUK Gaming Kinetic R3 - AMD B450 Configurable Ryzen 3000 Series Gaming PC = £846.01
    • Case:Kolink Inspire Series K2 ARGB Micro-ATX Case - Black Window
    • Processor:AMD Ryzen 5 3600 Six Core 4.2GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - MPK
    • Graphics Card:MSI GTX 1650 D6 VENTUS XS OC
    • Memory:Team Group Vulcan Z T-Force 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C16 3200MHz Dual Channel Kit - Grey
    • Primary Drive:WD Black 500GB SN750 M.2 2280 NVME PCI-E Gen3 Solid State Drive (WDS500G3X0C)
    • Secondary Drive:Unwanted
    • WIFI:Unwanted
    • Operating System:Unwanted
    • Security Software:Unwanted
Total: £860.11 (includes shipping: £14.10)​
​
 
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