New Profoto speedlite leaked

[Eloise]

As for who'd buy Profoto - If I was the kind of photographer I used to fantasise about being; Me.

I was the young mechanic with a huge Snap On tool chest, I'm happy to dine in Michelin starred restaurants; I appreciate paying over the odds for a premium product

Funny: if I was the kind of photographer I fantasise about being ... I'd have a variety of Godox equipment ... maybe still have time/chance to get there!

(and yes I know its not about the equipment)

 

[simonbarker]

Godox have a selection of speedlights, the AD200, 360II and 600,

you can gang 2 200's to make a 400ish and 2 600's to make a 1200 ish whilst that's not a Pro B4, it's as much power in a slightly more fiddly but smaller package.

Slightly more power but definitely more fiddly, I agree it's super convenient and a great feature if you're mostly using one head but if you need what the pair can do why would you go for a AD200 pair versus a AD600 or B1X or a AD600 pair versus a Pro-B4? It's a little unfair to add the Pro-B4 but we were talking about the range, nothing Godox offers provides the same spec as the Pro-B4.

Godox also has a bunch of Manual flashes that integrate, IGBT studio heads etc etc.

OK technically yes they have more models in their current line up but those manual flashes don't actually offer you anything you're not getting with the fully featured TTL version besides a lower price. If you can justify buying A1's I'm not seeing any reason to consider manual flashes.

I was the young mechanic with a huge Snap On tool chest, I'm happy to dine in Michelin starred restaurants; I appreciate paying over the odds for a premium product

I don't mind paying more for a product if it's giving me a something tangible in return, which is why the A1 discussions bug me, very few people bother to talk about those tangible benefits besides the obvious it fills a gap in the Profoto range and then we fall into the marketing nonsense of how shiny and round it is. I hear it doesn't over heat and has great consistency, I really wish someone would prove those claims as it's a huge selling point so it makes me suspicious to hear it claimed with no evidence.

 

[Phil V]

I don't mind paying more for a product if it's giving me a something tangible in return, which is why the A1 discussions bug me, very few people bother to talk about those tangible benefits besides the obvious it fills a gap in the Profoto range and then we fall into the marketing nonsense of how shiny and round it is. I hear it doesn't over heat and has great consistency, I really wish someone would prove those claims as it's a huge selling point so it makes me suspicious to hear it claimed with no evidence.

I think that's the point, there doesn't appear to be a tangible benefit beyond colour consistency, and whilst for an entire range that might be really useful to a very small number of photographers. For everyone else it's not really important. And it's certainly not worth £800 over the cost of a rival product.

And when it comes to tangible benefits, Profoto are their own worst enemy, constantly mis-selling their products with blatantly false infomercials. Whilst they might attract a few rich gullible types, it turns a lot of people 'against' them.

 

[Phil V]

Slightly more power but definitely more fiddly, I agree it's super convenient and a great feature if you're mostly using one head but if you need what the pair can do why would you go for a AD200 pair versus a AD600 or B1X or a AD600 pair versus a Pro-B4? It's a little unfair to add the Pro-B4 but we were talking about the range, nothing Godox offers provides the same spec as the Pro-B4.
.

I was talking about the AD1200 head, which competes directly with a B4

 

[HoppyUK]

Godox can stand toe to toe with Profoto on any aspect of performance - power, colour, durations, consistency, remote control. Build quality is on a similar level, too. They've done an amazing job in such a short time and have got all the major brands seriously worried. There are differences of course, but they're mostly pretty minor - biggest one is probably the AD600's modelling lamp which is a stop down on the B1X. It's just about usable for studio work whereas the B1X is on a par with many mains-powered units.

I've spent the last few months living with a pair of Godox AD600 TTL heads plus 1200Ws extension, AD360, AD200, and V860 speedlite, Profoto B1X and B2, both Phottix Indras, iLux Summit 600, Bowens XMT, Interfit S1, and Elinchrom HS. I have tons of data but unfortunately I can't say much more than that as the reviews have been commissioned by Digital SLR Photography magazine - Part One (under £700) has just been published and Part Two (over £700) is coming up soon.

But the main differences are in what you can see or read from the specs. Take the Profoto B1X vs AD600 - on the face of it they're pretty similar, and they perform much the same too, but the AD600 can split into two parts with the power pack over your shoulder and a separate extension head (perfect on a boom. too). Or you can double-up and fire two power packs through the 1200Ws head, with the second pack slung over your (assistant's) other shoulder, for massive mobile power down to 1/512 output. Performance matches or beats both the Profoto B4 (£6k, weight 10kg) and Elinchrom ELB1200 (£3.5k, 6.5kg) for the extra cost of a 1200Ws flash tube (£250). The two Godox packs clamp easily to any stand with M'frtto Superclamps or a Kupo, even to the legs providing excellent ballast weight and overall I see this design as an advantage rather than an inconvenience.

 

[Deleted member 49428]

Godox can stand toe to toe with Profoto on any aspect of performance - power, colour, durations, consistency, remote control. Build quality is on a similar level, too. They've done an amazing job in such a short time and have got all the major brands seriously worried. There are differences of course, but they're mostly pretty minor - biggest one is probably the AD600's modelling lamp which is a stop down on the B1X. It's just about usable for studio work whereas the B1X is on a par with many mains-powered units.

I've spent the last few months living with a pair of Godox AD600 TTL heads plus 1200Ws extension, AD360, AD200, and V860 speedlite, Profoto B1X and B2, both Phottix Indras, iLux Summit 600, Bowens XMT, Interfit S1, and Elinchrom HS. I have tons of data but unfortunately I can't say much more than that as the reviews have been commissioned by Digital SLR Photography magazine - Part One (under £700) has just been published and Part Two (over £700) is coming up soon.

But the main differences are in what you can see or read from the specs. Take the Profoto B1X vs AD600 - on the face of it they're pretty similar, and they perform much the same too, but the AD600 can split into two parts with the power pack over your shoulder and a separate extension head (perfect on a boom. too). Or you can double-up and fire two power packs through the 1200Ws head, with the second pack slung over your (assistant's) other shoulder, for massive mobile power down to 1/512 output. Performance matches or beats both the Profoto B4 (£6k, weight 10kg) and Elinchrom ELB1200 (£3.5k, 6.5kg) for the extra cost of a 1200Ws flash tube (£250). The two Godox packs clamp easily to any stand with M'frtto Superclamps or a Kupo, even to the legs providing excellent ballast weight and overall I see this design as an advantage rather than an inconvenience.

Oh my gotta get that mag. Which will I be looking for?

 

[HoppyUK]

<snip>

I don't mind paying more for a product if it's giving me a something tangible in return, which is why the A1 discussions bug me, very few people bother to talk about those tangible benefits besides the obvious it fills a gap in the Profoto range and then we fall into the marketing nonsense of how shiny and round it is. I hear it doesn't over heat and has great consistency, I really wish someone would prove those claims as it's a huge selling point so it makes me suspicious to hear it claimed with no evidence.

I've not tested the Profoto A1, but I have tested the Canon 600EX-RT and Nikon SB-5000 and I'd be amazed if the A1 doesn't at least match them. Both Canon and Nikon have paid close attention to overheating and I think that's a problem we can now leave behind, at least with the best products today. I'd guess that a major part of the A1's big round head design is cooling for a meaty heat-sink inside.

Firing at full power every five seconds, the Canon 600EX-RT goes into over-heat slow-down mode after 76 pops - exactly as claimed. The new Mk2 version claims 35% more and I'm sure that'll be true. Nikon SB-5000 has active cooling and managed 103 flashes. That's a heavy load which should cope with most situations, but if over-heating is a worry then build in a ten minute break or just turn them down to half power and they'll carry on almost indefinitely.

 

[HoppyUK]

Oh my gotta get that mag. Which will I be looking for?

Part 1 has been published (Sept 17 edition) with Part 2 coming up soon, hopefully before Xmas. Contact the publishers for a back issue https://subscribe.digitalslrphoto.com/

 

[simonbarker]

But the main differences are in what you can see or read from the specs. Take the Profoto B1X vs AD600 - on the face of it they're pretty similar, and they perform much the same too, but the AD600 can split into two parts with the power pack over your shoulder and a separate extension head (perfect on a boom. too).Or you can double-up and fire two power packs through the 1200Ws head, with the second pack slung over your (assistant's) other shoulder, for massive mobile power down to 1/512 output. Performance matches or beats both the Profoto B4 (£6k, weight 10kg) and Elinchrom ELB1200 (£3.5k, 6.5kg) for the extra cost of a 1200Ws flash tube (£250).

I'm a little doubtful that the AD1200 matches or beats a Pro-B4 in spec (I assume you can use a Pro twin on a Pro-B4 ), have you actually measured t0.1 and recycle speed between them at various power ranges? It doesn't appear to match it at full power and that's not addressing colour consistency but again without having them to test...

Don't get me wrong, even if it doesn't match it that it comes so close at such a low cost is amazing, as you say they've come very far very quickly. I really wouldn't want to work at any of their competitors.

The two Godox packs clamp easily to any stand with M'frtto Superclamps or a Kupo, even to the legs providing excellent ballast weight and overall I see this design as an advantage rather than an inconvenience.

Sounds good for most situations but the cable seems a little short for a decent boom? Well not the end of the world if it's clamped half way up I guess.

 

[mike weeks]

I'm a little doubtful that the AD1200 matches or beats a Pro-B4 in spec (I assume you can use a Pro twin on a Pro-B4 ), have you actually measured t0.1 and recycle speed between them at various power ranges? It doesn't appear to match it at full power and that's not addressing colour consistency but again without having them to test...

I have the Sekonic 858, I can measure t0.1 and have done of my Godox lights and if anything Godox under rate their performance i.e. to.1 is a bit shorter

Mike

 

[HoppyUK]

I'm a little doubtful that the AD1200 matches or beats a Pro-B4 in spec (I assume you can use a Pro twin on a Pro-B4 ), have you actually measured t0.1 and recycle speed between them at various power ranges? It doesn't appear to match it at full power and that's not addressing colour consistency but again without having them to test...

Don't get me wrong, even if it doesn't match it that it comes so close at such a low cost is amazing, as you say they've come very far very quickly. I really wouldn't want to work at any of their competitors.



Sounds good for most situations but the cable seems a little short for a decent boom? Well not the end of the world if it's clamped half way up I guess.

TBH Simon, you're right. Profoto B4 has some performance advantages - and disadvantages like no HSS or TTL. It's not really comparable to the Godox AD1200Ws and apart from the similar headline power they go about things in a different way. Profoto is not targeting the same customer either. I don't mean to knock Profoto at all, I'm a big fan and they make some amazing gear, with the A1 speedlite now rounding out the system very nicely indeed

 

[HoppyUK]

I have the Sekonic 858, I can measure t0.1 and have done of my Godox lights and if anything Godox under rate their performance i.e. to.1 is a bit shorter

Mike

I've found some interesting things going on with flash durations, notably with the iLux Summit 600, Interfit S1 and Profoto B1X - and they play havoc with how t.1 and t.5 times translate into real shutter speed equivalents.

The iLux puts out three separate flash pulses instead of one, and both the Interfit and Profoto B1X (in normal sync mode) fire one big flash followed by a stream of HSS pulses. They're mixing things up to maintain best colour accuracy and consistency, and so avoiding the shift to blue that's a natural characteristic of IGBT heads. Profoto is most successful with remarkably good colour throughout the wide power range.

Godox doesn't go in for this jiggery pokery with entirely conventional-looking oscilloscope graphs. I'd like to know how they manage to maintain such good colour with the AD600 right down to minimum output, even if the B1X is ultimately better at low power. The Godox AD200 is better than the AD600, astonishingly accurate and consistent with its Fresnel head, that also puts out 0.6 stops more light than the bare-bulb option.

Edit: I agree with some earlier comments though, about how important deadly accurate colour is to most photographers. Or to put that another way, there are so many other variables apart from the actual flash head that can throw things much further out, and many of them are beyond our control - yet it mostly passes unnoticed. If not, then a quick tweak with the local adjustment brush usually pulls things back in line very effectively. When you really do need guaranteed accurate colour straight out of the camera, say for catalogue fashion work, then it's bluddy difficult.