Newbie - Background backdrop lighting issue - Help needed.

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shippouk

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Hi there
Quiet a newbie here, so please bare with me.
I purchased a set of background stands and white muslin cotton sheet recently to take some full body shots
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220779316048

But I can still see the background image a lot in the photos. (No matter how much I iron it, there is always a slight wave in the cotton)

Any ideas of what type of lighting and how many lights I may need to purchase? I guess I'm looking for natural light as I just want a good light representation of the person I'm trying to take pics of.
As cheap as possible please?

Or maybe someone can suggest trying some different settings on the camera (I have a Canon EOS 350D by the way)

thanks!
 
You need to light your backdrop at least one to one and a half stops brighter than your subject in order to get a good white. Do you use a light meter? I have mine set to F11/12 on background and F8 on subject. It works well. It's important not to overlight your backdrop as you will get low contrast photos.
 
Michael Sewell said:
Do you have any images you have taken that you could show as an example. That may allow us to see your problem.

I'm guessing it's a lack of light on the background
Click to expand...

Here you go, I put some of the info on the image too (Let me know if anyone knows how to get more image info using a Mac)

I'm one of those people that really doesnt like having pics of themself online, so I've cut my head off. These are a few practice shots taken by my partner of me in my whistle and flute :)

The suit is completely black, with black shoes, a white shirt and a pale blue tie.

IMG_0048.jpg


IMG_0051.jpg


The below one is nearly there I guess.

IMG_0057.jpg


IMG_0061.jpg


No Model image below (Background/backdrop only)

IMG_0073.jpg


Would anything like this help do you think?
I'd rather not spend another £100 mind you
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOTOGRAP...graphy_StudioEquipment_RL&hash=item4aa76db3cb
 
ok, you have a number of problems.
You have two subjects, the model (you) and the background, each of which needs lighting individually.
Your model is too close to the background. (notice the shadows?)

You need to get some distance between the model and background, and light the background between 1 and 1.5 stops (or E.V) higher than your subject.
You could also do with stretching out your background too.

The last image you believe is correct is actually suffering from reduced contrast around the edges
 
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Michael Sewell said:
ok, you have a number of problems.
You have two subjects, the model (you) and the background, each of which needs lighting individually.
Your model is too close to the background. (notice the shadows?)

You need to get some distance between the model and background, and light the background between 1 and 1.5 stops (or E.V) higher than your subject.
You could also do with stretching out your background too.

The last image you believe is correct is actually suffering from reduced contrast around the edges
Click to expand...
Hi
Thanks for the input. The problem with distance is that I'm working in quiet a confined space in my lounge (Not a lovely huge warehouse), so to get the model in shot fully this is pretty much the maximum distance I can work to.


I'm pretty good with Photoshop, so can remove a few background problems after, but I'd rather get it right in the first place as this is my MAIN aim to do so.

With regards to stretching out the background its pretty much as stretched out as it will go , but it is really bunched up at the one end of the horizontal pole as the room width is less that the total width of the background, so maybe I should cut the muslin cotton backdrop to size to help avoid this?

I will try the lighting suggestions too.

But any ideas of what type of lights to purchase as I'm working less and less in actual daylight as we go further out of Summer and into Autumn.
Thanks!
 
If you cannot get some distance, you will be constantly plagued by shadows. Nor will you be able to light the background separately to the model, and will likely suffer some "bounce back" from the background, where the background will effectively act as a large reflector and "bounce" some of the light back onto the model.
If you reduce the lighting on the background to avoid this, you will have a background that appears grey rather than white.
 
You might want to consider getting a lastolite highlight if you're stuck for space. You can light it perfectly with two lights. One at the front and one inside the side of the lastolite. I have one and used it in my front bedroom studio a few years ago with really good results. I have a smallish studio now and I have my background light about 18 inches to 2 ft away. I stand my clients about 3 ft away from from the background and as long as the background is lit only 1 to 1.5 stops above I get a bright White even background without overspill onto the customer.
 
Peachy said:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lastolite-HiLite-Background-5ft-7ft-/200638940797
Click to expand...

Hi
That looks great, the only problem is that it isnt going to be big enough as I want to take pictures of groups of people (4+). (This isnt a business by the way, its purely a hobby)

I'll have another play tonight and let you know how I get on.

But again, does anyone have any suggestions for the type of lighting I should be using to light the room up? I cant rely on solely using daylight and will need to be taking pics in the late afternoon/evening.
Thanks
 
Is it an option to change the background to a more forgiving colour such as grey?
 
Your problems are a lack of room. You mention you can't bring your model any further forward, and yet you want to photograph groups.
You mention you have a minimal budget, and yet you realise you cannot rely on ambient.

I'm afraid you are in a catch 22

You need more room and more light
 
shippouk said:
Hi
That looks great, the only problem is that it isnt going to be big enough as I want to take pictures of groups of people (4+). (This isnt a business by the way, its purely a hobby)

I'll have another play tonight and let you know how I get on.

But again, does anyone have any suggestions for the type of lighting I should be using to light the room up? I cant rely on solely using daylight and will need to be taking pics in the late afternoon/evening.
Thanks
Click to expand...
You're going to need some sort of studio flash or off camera speedlight and probably at least two. By the way, my daughter has taken a very succesful photograph of 13 gymnasts in front of a lastolite! She's a master at posing though. :)

It's pretty easy to get more than 4 people standing in front of a lastolite if you can get far enough away to fit them all in with your wide angle with out distorting them. Your lack of room and lack of lights is holding you back.
 
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Michael Sewell said:
Your problems are a lack of room. You mention you can't bring your model any further forward, and yet you want to photograph groups.
You mention you have a minimal budget, and yet you realise you cannot rely on ambient.

I'm afraid you are in a catch 22

You need more room and more light
Click to expand...

Hi
Could someone suggest lights then please? Just because I'm on a minimal budget doesnt mean I'm not willing to spend an amount of money.
DIY ideas are good too by the way.

Thanks
 
shippouk said:
Hi
Could someone suggest lights then please? Just because I'm on a minimal budget doesnt mean I'm not willing to spend an amount of money.
DIY ideas are good too by the way.

Thanks
Click to expand...
You need flash - don't even think about using continuous lighting (lights that are on all the time).

Flash leaves you with a choice of either hotshoe flashes, used off camera on stands, or studio lights.

There's a very useful sticky here on the benefits/disadvantages of each, but basically hotshoe flashes are cheaper if you already have them but expensive to buy just for this purpose. They work well with umbrellas and are more portable than studio flash.

Studio flash is IMO my easier to use well and also has a much wider range of good modifiers available, and it's the modifiers that are important, because these are the tools that shape the light and allow different effects to be created.

The Lencarta SmartFlash twin head kit is one of many well worth considering.
 
I can second Garry's recommendation for the Lencarta system. I use them in my studio with a softbox on one and a thing (I've forgotten what it's called :) ) on the one at the back to spread the light on the backdrop and to stop it spilling back on the subject. Works well.
 
Hi
Here are a few new pictures.
We measured for the back drop which was f5.6 at 30th of a second, photos were taken to that (but they didn't hide the background enough) and other shots were taken at f5.6 at different speed with it set on iso 800.

Its kind of nearly there now, any more thoughts?

IMG_0093.jpg


IMG_0095.jpg


IMG_0097.jpg


IMG_0099.jpg
 
30th of a second is pretty slow. I know you've got your camera on a tripod so that will eliminate camera shake but if the subject moves only a little you're going to get blur. You could try F2.8 and try to blur the background more but it might be too shallow for several people. The last photo looks a tad over exposed. The only way you're going to blow the background is by lighting it separately.
 
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