Newbie needs advice!

Cheese Scientist

Cheese Scientist

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Name
Amanda
Edit My Images
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Sorry to ask such a idiotic question but could anyone recommend a good but relatively cheap digital SLR for a beginner?
It will need it to work well at high shutter speeds in low lighting and will probably be used with a long lens - I plan to take pictures at gigs mainly.
I don't want loads of unnecessary features that will just confuse me. It would be nice to have the option to go completely manual but some good auto options are a must.

Thanks for reading (unless you think I'm an idiot, in which case, thanks for nothing but you're probably right...)
:confused:
 
You may need to define what budget you mean by cheap. If it is value you are looking for then second hand may be the way to go, for example a Canon 5D mark 1 (sometimes referred to as 5D Classic or 5DC) offers great value now. It has a full frame sensor, so should be good at high ISO., can be had for about £350-£400. It is still used by many and at launch was circa £2500 to buy. Don't forget you will need lenses and this is it where it can get expensive as you will probably need fast lenses (low "f" number) due to the light and these don't come cheap.
 
What would you call "good value".?

What's your budget.?
 
What do you have available to spend on the complete set-up.?

I mean I'm sure there are plenty of people on here that can give you great option if you want spend 2-3k on gear, but if you have 800 tops they can Taylor their ideas to suit.
 
Hi Amanda

Is the £500 your max budget or just body budget ?

For £500, you can pick up a new (lower end) DSLR, a 2nd hand mid range DSLR (e.g. Canon xxD range) or earlier full frame DSLR - you should be able to get a Canon 5d within your budget.

Don't forget you'll need some memory, possibly an extra battery, case / bag and maybe a flash, so don't forget to budget for these...


I would recommend you try to have a feel of / go with a few different makes and models as they feel different and also have different menu systems - see which you prefer...

Don't forget, with Canon and Nikon, if you want Image Stabilisation (IS) then this comes in a lens, whereas Sony and Pentax offer IS in their camera body - so any lens you use, has IS available.

Hope this is of some help...
 
Thanks Andyred but I'm a massive ignoramus. do i need 'image stabilisation' and 'full frame'? Must haves or optional extras?
£500 all in really unless that's just unrealistic?
Plus, am uncomfortable buying second hand as i wouldn't be able to really ascertain whether there was something wrong with it.
I'm starting to get the feeling that I'm going to need a bigger boat! (For boat, read bank account...)
 
Full frame and IS would be optional, but to be honest I think £500 all in is being a little optimistic.

Being able to shoot high speed in dark conditions requires a good, wide lens. This is where the money comes in.

A canon 17-55 f2.8 ( only suitable on a canon crop sensor body) would set you back £500 second hand on its own.
 
My canon 1100d was my first dslr and I think its a cracker. Easy to use, nice and compact and depending on what your going to do with the pics the image quality is exalent. Plus I think I paid 350 new with a 18-55 kit lens. Although I wouldn't recommend the 18-55 in low light!
 
Cheese Scientist said:
I'm starting to get the feeling that I'm going to need a bigger boat! (For boat, read bank account...)
Click to expand...

Just a heads up, your boat will never be big enough once you sail into this world
 
Cheese Scientist said:
Thanks Bobby. I've seen online somewhere that the Canon 1100d is a good starter camera. Could you recommend a lens that would be good with that?
ecoleman - would that lens fit on the 1100d?
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Unfortunatly good glass is where your money is going to go. Something like a 17-55 IS but you will be looking at about 500 for that.
Don't cheap out on glass to much though as you will regret the results. Trust me I have been sucked it by there price tag temptation. Even if you start off with a 55-250 to get going and take it from there.
 
Id go with the 55-250. I'm guessing a few people will give that a "thumbs up" and then you can progress from there.
Also remember you could spend all ya money, shoot for a week and then it sits in the cupboard for a year!
I had 4 cameras before I decided to roll with the big boys.
If not bridge camera's are always a path to follow?
 
Cheese Scientist said:
Hmmm, so i'd be looking at at least £850 for a basic body and a reasonable zoom.
And that's not even including bag, tripod, flash, filters, geeky t-shirt, and all that guff...
I suppose I'm going to have to sell the family silver after all.
Damn...
Click to expand...

I've not done any gig photography, so I don't know what the etiquette is with regards to flash photography, I'm sure someone on here will be able to help. However I don't think I'd worry about a tripod. They take too much time to set up and adjust. You need a camera that is capable of producing high ISO images without too much noise. I may be wrong but I'm not sure how good the budget entry level dslr's are at this. I can only comment on Canon as it's what I use! but I would have thought at least the xxD range, maybe second hand 50D, would be better.
 
I can't really help to much, as I'm fairly new to,

But what about a second hand d7000, most people rate them quite high, and price wise you would have 3-400 for a good lens.

Low light performance. ?? Anyone
 
Before spending more than you can afford, have a serious think about what you want to do with this.

If it's just a hobby, you can probably get away with a high-end (ish) Bridge camera. Having a DSLR in itself won't let you take amazing shots. To get magazine-level of gig shots you're looking at spending serious money on a fast lens and a good high-ISO capable body, neither of which is cheap - AND even if you do have them, some (most?) venues won't let you take them in...

A cheap way of doing things, if you were intent on a DSLR would be something like a 1100D (I only know Canon, this isn't a particular reccommendation) and the 50mm f/1.8. BUT this isn't a very "long" lens, so you'll need to be close to the action to fill the frame.
 
Cheese Scientist said:
It will need it to work well at high shutter speeds in low lighting and will probably be used with a long lens - I plan to take pictures at gigs mainly.
clear.png
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I think that a couple of things to think about are...
- How big do you want to print or are your shots just going to be viewed on screen?
- What image quality do you want?

If you are going to print large images or obsess about them on screen and want top notch image quality then you're going to have to spend, spend, spend, but if you're only going to produce smaller prints or will be quite happy to look at whole images on screen without pixel peeping and obsessing then your options rise even with a reasonably priced set up.

Years ago I used to shoot in dingy venues with ISO 1600 film and an f4 lens but as I only produced what were then pretty standard sized prints and never cropped or printed large everyone was perfectly happy with the results and a modern digital camera should do even better these days and of course modern noise reduction and processing software helps a lot too.

So, Cheese Scientist...
Any idea of what focal length you want? How far will you be from the action?
Are you going to print big or small or just view on screen?
Will you accept some noise in your shots?
Will you accept some motion blur in you shots or do you expect pin sharp images with frozen action?
Are you willing to process your images to get the best out of them?
(You may well be able to process your images with the cameras manufacturers "free" software or with software you can download off the net for free.)

Worst case scenario... High end DSLR + image stabilised lens and a bill running into £1K's.

Best case scenario... A used Panasonic CSC and a 50mm f1.8 (full frame equivalent focal length of 100mm) at a cost of under £100. Shoot at 3200 and process with free software.
 
If you decide to go the SLR route. I'd suggest a 2nd hand Canon 40D. It doesn't have all the latest bells and whistles or a bazillion pixels, but it has by all accounts a decent image quality, and can be picked up second hand for around £150-180 with battery, charger, and perhaps a memory stick or two. If you didn't get on with it you could sell it on for little or no loss.
Bare in mind that with Canon, 5D is bigger and heavier than 50D which in turn is bigger and heavier than 500D etc. I don't have big hands for a bloke- but I personally find the 500D, 600D etc too small to hold naturally- personal preference really.
Lens wise, as mentioned the canon 50mm 1.8 is sharp (if a bit plasticky) and can be had new for under £80.
The canon 70-300 IS lens (image stabilisation) is very well regarded and can be picked up for around £240 new. Or you could pick up a 2nd hand Sigma 70-300 without image stabilisation for about £80. Not the slickest lens, but again very usable and cheap as chips 2nd hand. Mine's about 10 years old.
2 lenses like this would let you shoot most subjects, and would be a good start until you get a feel for your style and what you like shooting.

Personally after looking at the 40D I picked up a 5D in December which was around £360 2nd hand. This is a full frame camera, which though fantastic does rule out some of the less expensive lenses.

Oh, and some advice buying 2nd hand (borrowed from Ken Rockwell) be picky about who you buy from, and if you're buying from somewhere like ebay, 100% feedback rating with lots of sales behind them is more important than the photos or description of the item. You don't get 100s of 100% ratings by selling people junk!

BTW I'm not saying you shouldn't buy Nikon- I'm just not familiar with the options.

Dan
 
Thanks for everyone's advice.
I am now the proud owner of a Nikon D7000. Came with a 18-105mm lens and have invested in a 50mm f1.4.
Spent twice what I originally planned, but I guess you get what you pay for.
Liked the D7000 'cos it looks like it might be ok when I inevitably drop it.

Will now be spending this evening trying to work out what all the buttons do - a photo science degree 20 years ago isn't much help as cameras were made of Bakelite in my day*

*(slight exaggeration)
 
Good luck, i went through the same as you last year, fist camera and all.

went for the D5100 as i thought it would be a good starter, many told me to go with the D7000.

and funny enough they were right :), dont think it will disappoint.
 
Lmfao!!

No experience of either but I doubt you'll beat the Nikon although it is mega expensive when compared to the likes of the newer Tamron 70-200 vc which is amazeballs.

Depends if you need something else that you could buy with the difference in price.
 
:ROFLMAO: ROFL. Welcome to the never ending money pit that is photography, I see GAS is already starting to take effect :D. I can't comment on the Nikon as I use Canon, however I can vouch for how good the Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 VC is. If you search Philyoung has a review thread on it with sample shots. Enjoy your new toy and everything that goes with it
 
ChrisHeathcote said:
:ROFLMAO: ROFL. Welcome to the never ending money pit that is photography, I see GAS is already starting to take effect :D. I can't comment on the Nikon as I use Canon, however I can vouch for how good the Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 VC is. If you search Philyoung has a review thread on it with sample shots. Enjoy your new toy and everything that goes with it
Click to expand...

Now about £3.5k in. Yeah, I should take some more bloody pictures!
 
New year I did that in 1 go. Bought a 5dmk3 along with 24-70 f2.8. Straight after thought. What have I done and now I'm in love :)

I'd been contemplating FF for a while and after a couple of glasses of something red and alcoholic accidentally pressed the add to basket and checkout buttons.
 
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A 70-200 f2.8 will be ideal for gigs and unless you want to buy new ?
Look at the used market you can certainly pick up some bargains.
Sigma,Tamron and Tokina all make 70/80-200 mm f2.8 lenses to fit your D7100 and Nikon also do a number covering that range .
 
ChrisHeathcote said:
New year I did that in 1 go. Bought a 5dmk3 along with 24-70 f2.8. Straight after thought. What have I done and now I'm in love :)

I'd been contemplating FF for a while and after a couple of glasses of something red and alcoholic accidentally pressed the add to basket and checkout buttons.
Click to expand...
Phiggys said:
A 70-200 f2.8 will be ideal for gigs and unless you want to buy new ?
Look at the used market you can certainly pick up some bargains.
Sigma,Tamron and Tokina all make 70/80-200 mm f2.8 lenses to fit your D7100 and Nikon also do a number covering that range .
Click to expand...

Bought this in my lunch break today. I wasn't even drunk so I have no excuse...
http://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/nikon-70-200mm-af-s-nikkor-f28g-ed-vr-ii-lens-498-p.asp
 
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