NHS realities

[Garry Edwards]

Without comment from me . . .

Shortly before 7 pm last night, other half visits her 88 year old mother, who has dementia. Finds her on the floor with injured shoulder, following a fall.

7 p,m, Rings for ambulance, is asked whether she can take her to A & E herself. Replies no, as she cannot stand and cannot sit up, so needs an ambulance. Told that it won't be immediate as it is not an emergency. Points out that she is in severe pain, advised to give her a paracetamol.

10 p.m., rings again, is told that the ambulance will be about another hour.

3 a.m. Ambulance arrives, paramedics are excellent, they take her to the local hospital, which is full. Wait in the ambulance until 5.30 a.m., when they have room inside.

Told that she is lucky to be accepted, Future patients are being told to go to York hospital instead, about 40 miles away, as local hospital cannot cope.

Finally given painkillers, dislocated shoulder re-set. Told that she should be able to go home, but must wait for physio to come on shift at 8 a.m.

2.30 p.m. Still waiting for physio to see her

 

[Box Brownie]

The real (local/regional differences?) world of folks experiences of how overloaded the NHS is and has been for some time

I hope your MiL recovers well and continues in better health.

 

[nandbytes]

I have been to the A&E 7 times in total (2 times this year). Not all for myself of course but for various family members. One of them actually in York. Have been in for things like viral infection to broken bones to a baby not pooping for 7 days!

I always felt the time taken was appropriate for the level of emergency.

having said that the pharmacy in every hospital has been a joke. I don't understand why they take 45 minutes to dispense some medicine.

Sorry to hear about your MiL, hope she recovers soon. your experience does sound rather bad to be honest but not sure I'd paint the whole of NHS with the same brush.

 

[andya700]

I had to go to my local surgery today to chase up a referral which I put in around two months ago (a letter from Vision Express, which would hopefully see my catarct problem solved) and also pick up a copy of my recent blood tests. The receptionist came back and told me that I should have referred myself???????
The first time I have heard of a patient referring themselves.
There was one patient in the waiting room and around a dozen people in the queue which had formed behind me.
The receptionist eventually relented and said that she would get someone to refer me.

 

[Pixbarmy]

I rang the doctor to get an appointment after visiting the ear clinic and being told to do so. I was No 47/49 in the phone queue. I didn't bother. Rang the next day, I was No 12 or so, waited, waited, waited, got through, all the appointments had gone. I can give you one for three weeks time! I got better in two! (without the antibiotics!) Doh!

 

[Suvv]

I sent my GP a picture of my swollen knee and ankle stating that I thought that the knee was just Bursitus, which I had suffered from before, but was concerned about the ankle. I was seen the same day.
I find that the e consult system that they use is great.
Before our GP practice got merged (taken over!) by another practice the service was bad, the present lot are much better.

 

[ancient_mariner]

Sorry for your wife & MiL's experience.

At the end of August I made a 4am call to 111 because of back, stomach and chest pains. Ambulance arrived within an hour, taken to the Horton in Banbury and once they were sure it wasn't a heart attack I was seen over the next few hours, getting home around midday. The response was good, but I find the need to involve patients in their health care very worrying - medically most people are uninformed, and can't be expected to make potentially life-changing choices for themselves with only very very limited knowledge.

They didn't manage to diagnose what happened to me (which I'm reasonably sure was a gallstone) preferring to concentrate on the usual suspects for a male in their early 60s of cholesterol and blood pressure.

 

[cambsno]

Its a joke!

Girlfriends daughter had a 9 hour back op last week. Can't fault the surgery or care given but just not enough nurses. Likewise when being discharged Sunday night, couldn't take meds home as pharmacy shuts at 5pm on Sundays!!! Really, one of the biggest hospitals Addenbrokes Cambridge.

Severely understaffed, and the food... don't go there, if I served that to my kids I would have NSPCC round!

 

[Brendan Mulachy]

its a deliberate policy to drive us towards private health care you mark my words

my mum waited 16 hours on the floor last year after she fell , thankfully that time she never broke anything.

i recently received an appointment to see my orthopedic surgeon for the 4th December this year, sods law that's the day i come back from a a family holiday in Tenerife and don't land till 22.20 that night, i rang to remake a new appointment, next one is march 2025..15 months away, i've ponced about with a broken leg for the past 4.5 years already so to say i was a bit upset is an understatement, the choice to lose a holiday or wait in pain...thankfully i managed to speak to the surgeons secretary and she will get me in some time December or January

the leg in question


for all we slag the NHS off its saved my life numerous times as well as my sons and the alternatives are truly horrific ask anyone how the american version of health care is if your not loaded, long live the NHS

 

[Mr Bump]

The NHS is truly in the toilet but yet we have two new aircraft carriers and a nuclear submarine deterrent the mind boggles.
my wife hurt her knee about 7 months ago just last week had an MRI on it to see if we can find out why she is hopping.
I have never voted labour in my life but at the next general election we will both be voting for them
for us the NHS is the top of the list for funding and survival in the UK

 

[Dale.]

for all we slag the NHS off its saved my life numerous times as well as my sons and the alternatives are truly horrific ask anyone how the american version of health care is if your not loaded, long live the NHS

Absolutely...................

I'm probably biased as I was born and bred in Nye Bevan's hometown (Tredegar), who spearheaded and founded the NHS.

I can't imagine life without it, maybe I wouldn't be able to . It's a brilliant thing and concept, even if sadly, nowadays, underfunded.

 

[Mr Bump]

Absolutely...................

I'm probably biased as I was born and bred in Nye Bevan's hometown (Tredegar), who spearheaded and founded the NHS.

I can't imagine life without it, maybe I wouldn't be able to . It's a brilliant thing and concept, even if sadly, nowadays, underfunded.

but why do people always throw up the yanks and there s***e healthcare when most of the rest of the world has fantastic state health care?
the NHS is s***e because it is simply underfunded and given all the obese , smokers, diabetics that now seem to form most of our society it will always need more cash

 

[Pound Coin]

The NHS is in trouble because there are a load of vultures circling, and it is a political football, seen as a vote catcher at election time and a drain on resources at other times.

It needs to be removed from the control of the "useless f***pigs, morons and c****"

 

[Dale.]

because it is simply underfunded and given all the obese , smokers, diabetics that now seem to form most of our society it will always need more cash

I agree, it is underfunded, which is what I said.

I'm sure every country, sadly, has it's obese, smokers and diabetics. To be fair, that's a lifestyle choice kind of thing, without being too brutal about it. That should be targeted at source and spending money there would be well spent, IMO.

That would take time though, it's a case of reap(ing) what has been sown, in so many ways.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

...but yet we have two new aircraft carriers and a nuclear submarine deterrent the mind boggles.

One can certainly criticise the design of the aircraft carriers - being oil powered makes them appear like pedal powered bicycles in a grand prix car race. The nuclear submarines, whether missile launchers or torpedo launchers, are practical deterrents to any bully who decides we're a soft target.

As has been so rightly said elsewhere: "if you want peace, prepare for war",

 

[ecoleman]

I'd happily pay for some form of private health care if the government made provision for opting out of a portion of NI even if it just covered the more serious illnesses.

I'm from SA where private health care is the norm but there is also a public healthcare system for those that can't afford it. The Health care in SA is second to none if you have private medical. The town I'm from has 4-5 hospitals and they are like hotels with private room with on-suite bathrooms.

Doctors in SA seem to be far more qualified than here. Doctors here seem to be the gatekeepers who try to fob you off where possible and just refer you if need be. The last doctor I saw had to refer to his manual to diagnose my issue.

Doctors in SA deal with everything there an then. If you need any tests done they are dealt with usually the same day. If you need an operation it's usually your own doctor who performs the operation unless it's in a very specialised field.

If you need to see a doctor in an emergency, just walk in. We would never dream of going to the hospital unless it were life or death. Our local doctors surgeries was staffed with 12 doctors so you usually got to see one of them within an hour of arrival.

The NHS may be free but it really is bloody useless compared to a so called third world country. An NHS is useless if people can't get the care they need when they need it. As they say, you get what you pay for.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I'd happily pay for some form of private health care if the government made provision for opting out of a portion of NI even if it just covered the more serious illnesses.

That's antithetical to the whole concept of the NHS.

It's a service, free at the point of need, to all citizens.

 

[ecoleman]

That's antithetical to the whole concept of the NHS.

It's a service, free at the point of need, to all citizens.

I'd rather pay for a service that works and NHS is not free. When I'm ill I want treatment, I don't care about feeling good about myself for being ethical.

There's nothing to say that the NHS can't remain a free service, just like the public healthcare in SA.

Option 1) You get a s*** service for free.
Option 2) Pay for healthcare and get great service.

Capitalism, It's great

 

[cambsno]

That's antithetical to the whole concept of the NHS.

It's a service, free at the point of need, to all citizens.

But, the NHS was different then. We live longer, far more care needed and treatments have come on so much since then.

I do think it should be funded better, but we should look at things like the French and German models where they offer great care but do have some private enterprise going on, and things like paying for appointments which gets refunded. We should be looking at what works elsewhere and what is best rather than an ideological viewpoint

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

and NHS is not free.

It is, at the point of need.

We should be looking at what works elsewhere and what is best rather than an ideological viewpoint

I agree.

However, it's a bad idea to throw out the bathwater and the baby together.

 

[Pound Coin]

But, the NHS was different then. We live longer, far more care needed and treatments have come on so much since then.

That applies however it is funded. When it was set up the treatments available would have been streets ahead of those in 1900, and light years ahead of those in 1800. I'm sure the same arguments will be made in 50 years time too.

There are organisations and people that would dearly love to make money out of the NHS. Dissing it and pointing to the sunlit uplands possible with the wonders of Private Healthcare helps seed ah itch for change.

Someone mentioned Private Healthcare in South Africa. It is available* to 16% of South Africans. If those figures are broken down a bit:

Black South Africans 10%
White South Africans 72%

That doesn't appear to be a particularly well balanced service across the population.

*members of a medical aid scheme.

 

[dkh]

The NHS is primarily an after thought for anyone from 20's to early 50's. It's in the twilight years that the service is seen as something essential. Like everything else 'why worry about something that doesn't affect me'. What I'm trying to say is live for now and sod tomorrow is todays mantra.

I remember when I was in my 20's - there were 5 local hospitals (within a radius of 5 miles) all dealing with various different stages of treatment. Now there are 2 competing with each other. I count myself lucky having these two.

Privatisation is all about profit - I wish people could see what I see working in the NHS. Privatisation is already happening and from 'our' perspective it has totally screwed up the treatment of patients and how systems work.

 

[Pound Coin]

Privatisation is all about profit

Yup. In one.

 

[ecoleman]

It is, at the point of need.

So is private healthcare if you have medial insurance.

 

[ecoleman]

Privatisation is all about profit - I wish people could see what I see working in the NHS. Privatisation is already happening and from 'our' perspective it has totally screwed up the treatment of patients and how systems work.

Perhaps that's exactly what we need. The problem with the NHS is it's not about profit so you end up with layers and layers if useless overpaid management and bureaucracy, with millions wasted in every corner of the NHS including procurement.

Why does the NHS doesn't need dozens of "diversity" managers all paid upwards of £100k?

 

[cambsno]

The biggest problem is that it's a political football. It needs to be taken out of government control and run by an NHS board made up of ex doctors, nurses etc... who understand the issues and run this for the long term. It should also include social care. No whether that has less or more private input is up to them to decide.

 

[Garry Edwards]

The biggest problem is that it's a political football. It needs to be taken out of government control and run by an NHS board made up of ex doctors, nurses etc... who understand the issues and run this for the long term. It should also include social care. No whether that has less or more private input is up to them to decide.

This may be a good solution, but the problem is that the money men, aided by a corrupt government, stuck their fat fingers in a long time ago and, effectively, have taken over the lucrative private element, leaving the real NHS to cope with the unprofitable bits,

My own experiences with the NHS have been generally excellent. I've suffered from diabetes for years (because my pancreas doesn't work, not because I choose to over-eat) and I had a minor heart attack last year. Communication can be very poor, but the attitude of all staff, the level of care and expertise have all been first-class.

Coming back to this thread, it cannot be right that an injured elderly person, laying on the floor in agony has to wait 8 hours for an ambulance, and then has to wait even longer before the ambulance can hand her over to NHS staff. It surely doesn't take a genius to work out that an ambulance should be able to deliver her to hospital, hand over her care immediately and then be available for the next emergency call?

As for the "better" quality of private care, that isn't even necessarily true. Better food yes, immediate care yes, Being made to feel valued, yes - but NHS staff, although highly pressured, have the tremendous advantage of being able to get it right nearly all of the time simply because they have so much experience.

 

[Pound Coin]

Perhaps that's exactly what we need. The problem with the NHS is it's not about profit so you end up with layers and layers if useless overpaid management and bureaucracy, with millions wasted in every corner of the NHS including procurement.

Why does the NHS doesn't need dozens of "diversity" managers all paid upwards of £100k?

Someone has been reading the Daily Mail.

 

[ecoleman]

Someone has been reading the Daily Mail.

Oh grow up FFS.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

So is private healthcare if you have medial insurance.

...and if you are like the billions around the world who cannot afford insurance?

Why, then, just like in America, the land of the fee, your only option is to suffer and die.

 

[Pound Coin]

Oh grow up FFS.

Seriously? The stuff you put in your post is a collection of hyperbolic DM tropes.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Seriously? The stuff you put in your post is a collection of hyperbolic DM tropes.

We don't always agree but in this case you seem to have hit the nail on the head.

 

[ecoleman]

...and if you are like the billions around the world who cannot afford insurance?

Why, then, just like in America, the land of the fee, your only option is to suffer and die.

Jesus Christ, have you even bothered to read my posts properly, if not go back and read them again.

The American health care system is crap. Why do people like you only ever compare things to the US. Wake up there is more to the world than just the US and U.K..

I have explained how it worked in SA. It worked and healthcare is excellent there but you’re blinded by your “free” NHS no matter how s*** it is.

 

[Pound Coin]

Jesus Christ, have you even bothered to read my posts properly, if not go back and read them again.

The American health care system is crap. Why do people like you only ever compare things to the US. Wake up there is more to the world than just the US and U.K..

I have explained how it worked in SA. It worked and healthcare is excellent there but you’re blinded by your “free” NHS no matter how s*** it is.

You explained how it works in SA ... if you are white.

 

[Dale.]

Right, hostility stops here, there is no need for it. Lets not see yet another topic dragged through the gutter. Opinions might be strong but that doesn't require nastiness.

here's the line......

---

Play nice!

 

[munch]

The biggest issues we face is we don't have a joined up social care system. One of the reasons that ambulances don't respond "on time" is that more of their work is now "social calls" visiting people who would normally be seen by district nurses mental health teams etc. But we then have patients being kept in hospital because there is no social care in place to release them, so when the ambulances do get to hospital they can't discharge their patients to the hospital because there is no beds available.
Until both looking after patients whilst they are in hospital and the care they need when they go home or provisions for them to receive care elsewhere. Or the care they need so they don't need to go to hospital in the first place. It really doesn't matter how much money we put into the NHS as it stands, the problems will not change

 

[simonm8]

The nhs is in a serious bad state at moment. I’m 42 and I’m feb 2022 I had a suspected stroke. Turned out to be a hemiplegic migraine. Had quite a few need referral to nureolgy. Waited till march 2023 to be seen. Was more or less discharged straight away even though I told them I have had loads and ongoing issue with headaches and and vision. Roll on april 2023 start having tremor and seizures. Blacking out low heart and blood pressure. Referral again. Still on list to be seen now.

Lucky my work have a Bupa policy so going through that to get it all sorted. And see consultant within a day of calling. And was at a cardiologist quick If it was not for my work I would not be here now as I would have had no treatment and not found out the issues.

My college at worked chopped his finger off on a bench saw. Ambulance said it would be at least and hr! Ended up driving him in my car to Newham where we waited and hr to be seen to be told sorry can’t help, be an hr before we can get an ambulance to transfer to the London. So I ended driving him there to try save his dinger.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

It really doesn't matter how much money we put into the NHS as it stands, the problems will not change

I think that this is the problem.

The NHS must be part of a joined up system to function properly. To create such a system requires joined up thinking, which the previous four cabinets conspicuously failed to display. To be fair, the jury is still out on the current group.

More wealth needs to go into education, training, social services, the courts and the prison/probation services - and it needs to continue to go there. For this to happen, we need to abandon greedthink once and for all. Unfortunately, too many believe that "I'm all right, so I'll pull the ladder up after me", is a decent way to think. The challenge is to make them realise that they're wrong.

 

[omens]

I know a few colleagues who used to have private health care that they paid for. Except now that they’re older and more poorly, their premiums are eye watering. To the point where it’s cheaper for them to save and pay for private treatment out of their own pocket.

There’s a graph that shows how NHS waiting times were up under Conservatives, came down under New Labour, and have now worsened since the Conservatives took over again.

Helena slams the government's poor record on NHS waiting times

NHS waiting lists get better under a Labour government and worse under a Conservative government. Recently, the FT has analysed the size of NHS waiting lists under each government since 1990. It clearly shows that waiting lists were significantly improved under the last Labour government and...

www.helenadollimore.com

The UK Govt spends less per person than many of the EU countries that have better healthcare AND have a charge element. So naturally if you underfund and under resource the NHS it’s going to struggle.

The GBP got the health service they voted for.

 

[ecoleman]

I know a few colleagues who used to have private health care that they paid for. Except now that they’re older and more poorly, their premiums are eye watering. To the point where it’s cheaper for them to save and pay for private treatment out of their own pocket.

There’s a graph that shows how NHS waiting times were up under Conservatives, came down under New Labour, and have now worsened since the Conservatives took over again.

Helena slams the government's poor record on NHS waiting times

NHS waiting lists get better under a Labour government and worse under a Conservative government. Recently, the FT has analysed the size of NHS waiting lists under each government since 1990. It clearly shows that waiting lists were significantly improved under the last Labour government and...

www.helenadollimore.com

The UK Govt spends less per person than many of the EU countries that have better healthcare AND have a charge element. So naturally if you underfund and under resource the NHS it’s going to struggle.

The GBP got the health service they voted for.

I’m not going to defend the conservatives, they’ve done a lot wrong but explain the state of the NHS in Wales please.

NHS: Is Wales worse than England for waiting lists?

Can waiting times be compared between Wales and England?

www.bbc.co.uk