Nikon D800

http://www.pixiq.com/article/zeiss-lenses-nikon-and-canon-beat-them

Came from a Google search and like almost everything on the internet you can find every possible variation on an opinion without ever getting any proof as to who is right or wrong.

You could get 2 x D800 bodies for the price of one Leica lens. Reckon that sort of decides things for a lot of people.
 
This is becoming very interesting, are there any sites which show the quality and performance of all these lenses?

There are tons of lens test sites. Some better than others :eek:

One thing that most folks rarely understand is what 'sharpness' is actually about. And it is not just resolution/pixels. Sharpness is a combination of resolution (the fineness of detail) and contrast (how clearly those details are shown). Fundamental to this is the inescapable fact of physics that as resolution goes up, so lens contrast goes down.

If you look at a lens test chart with black and white lines, as the lines get smaller and closer together, the lens renders them as increasingly lighter shades of grey and there comes a point when you can't clearly distinguish them.

In our perception of sharpness, it's this contrast that is more significant. This is what makes an image 'pop' with crisp detail and bright, clean colours. The way this is measured is by Modulation Transfer Function (MTF) and this is the key tool used by lens designers.

Here's a good example of the relationship between contrast and resolution from Leica, their 50mm f/2 in this case http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/lenses/8884.html Click on the technical data on the right, then scroll down to three MTF graphs.

Percentage contrast is on the vertical axis, and the graph shows how this changes across the image with four pairs of lines, at resolution figures of 5 lines-per-mm, 10 lpmm, 20 lpmm and 40 lpmm. Critically, note how as resolution increases, so the pairs of lines drop further down the graph.

Now do a quick calculation of how many lpmm you are asking the lens to resolve with the D800's 36mp sensor, and ask yourself where that pair of lines would be at that extremey high level. Way down near the bottom is the answer, and this lens is one of the sharpest you'll find*.

This is why larger formats always look sharper, in theory. Because the image has to be enlarged less for a given size output and resolution level, the lens doesn't have to work so hard, contrast goes up, and the perception of sharpness is greater.

Good examples of this that nobody would really argue with is say, Nikon D300 vs D700, or Canon 7D vs 5D2. In both cases, the pixel count is very similar and the sensors are of roughly the same generation, but put the same lens on each camera and the full frame cameras always win easily. That's not resolution or pixels, because they're the same, it's lens MFT at work. Plus you get less noise and more dynamic range with the larger sensor (because the larger area simply collects more photons/light) but that's another question.

*Check the MTF graphs for Canon's long L primes, like 300/400/500/600mm, if you want to be truly astonished at how good a lens can get! This is the reason why birders can crop the heck out of cameras like the 7D, because they're using such high quality lenses and image contrast is still quite high even at max resolution. Here's the Canon 500L Mk2, and note that with a theoretically perfect lens all the MFT traces should run along the top. This is as close as I've ever seen, though bear in mind Canon's graphs are only at 10 lpmm and 30 lpmm http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/ef_lens_lineup/ef_500mm_f_4l_is_ii_usm
 
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Thanks for the all info on MFT and to be honest I never gave it much thought in the past. I'm off to check out all my lenses! lol

It definitely makes me wonder why manufacturers are pushing the pixel count so much, especially in compact cameras, when there seems to be so many factors which will effect the image quality. How on earth do they expect the tiny lenses on compacts to cope with the likes of 12MP upwards?
 
http://www.pixiq.com/article/zeiss-lenses-nikon-and-canon-beat-them

Came from a Google search and like almost everything on the internet you can find every possible variation on an opinion without ever getting any proof as to who is right or wrong.

You could get 2 x D800 bodies for the price of one Leica lens. Reckon that sort of decides things for a lot of people.

That's so true. And comparing one lens test to another is very difficult. The test procedure than throw things alarmingly, the shooting distance particularly and most lens tests use a small target often at very close range with wide-angles. Exposure levels and processing parameters too, and bear in mind that the camera used has a big influence.

The largest ISO test target used by many is 60in wide, which means you'll only be a couple of feet away from it with a super-wide. This causes all sorts of problems. With the lens tests I do for Advanced Photographer magazine, the shooting distance is never less than 3m (much further for 300-plus) and the largest target I use for wide angles is the equivalent of 20ft wide.

But at the end of the day, I have a general rule of thumb that says if the results don't show clear differences and are so close that there's room for any argument, then it probably doesn't matter much. When it gets to the level of pixel peeping debates, there are more significant variables to worry about.
 
Thanks for the all info on MFT and to be honest I never gave it much thought in the past. I'm off to check out all my lenses! lol

It definitely makes me wonder why manufacturers are pushing the pixel count so much, especially in compact cameras, when there seems to be so many factors which will effect the image quality. How on earth do they expect the tiny lenses on compacts to cope with the likes of 12MP upwards?

Good question, but it's one of those myths that is now locked into the public psyche. When pixel counts were around 3-4mp, it mattered a lot, but frankly I think something around 20mp is plenty.

But let's be honest, pixels sell cameras ;)
 
Richard,

Your post are always enlightening, but your post no. 162 (just above) was exceptional (y)

Thank you for taking the time and effort to share your knowledge; very kind of you.
 
Richard,

Your post are always enlightening, but your post no. 162 (just above) was exceptional (y)

Thank you for taking the time and effort to share your knowledge; very kind of you.

Hey Wail, thanks. You're most welcome :)

I enjoy following your adventures in the desert too!
 
As ever Richard a really enlightening read.

I picked up Terry's (mentioned above as for sale) yesterday. My initial thought were I really like it. It does show weaknesses in lenses as above, but these are only visible at 100% or greater crops. The purple fringing that is visible at these resolutions is easily processed out, I don't think its a biggy by any means, although I suspect that using it with anything other then high end glass may be revealing. I also noticed that images would in general take more aggressive processing then my d3s. I did think this was needed to get the best as well. More so then a d3s.

One thing that really did impress me was the dynamic range of the sensor

I don't think people are doing either MF or 35mm any favours by comparing the two. I had a look against some photos shot with a h4d-50 last year. I realise the lenses technically may not be as good, but for sheer depth and range of tonality then nothing touches MF. I do think this is a different beast and the comparisons aren't realistic. Which isn't to say the bar hasn't been set very high here.

Interestingly its also made me change my mind about the likely hood of a d600. I think that because this pushes glass and user to get the best from it then a d600 plugging the gap seems likely (how that fits with a d400 is another question)
 
Try HDEW cameras.
 
This is becoming very interesting, are there any sites which show the quality and performance of all these lenses?

Diglloyd I find the best for reviews, although it is behind a pay wall. MTF charts are all well and good, but just one piece of the jigsaw and pretty boring to look at. Canon give theoretical calculations and other companies use their own methods so I prefer looking at the images which diglloyd has in abundance.

http://www.pixiq.com/article/zeiss-lenses-nikon-and-canon-beat-them

Came from a Google search and like almost everything on the internet you can find every possible variation on an opinion without ever getting any proof as to who is right or wrong.

You could get 2 x D800 bodies for the price of one Leica lens. Reckon that sort of decides things for a lot of people.

The Images from the Zeiss just look nicer. Getting into the micrometers of difference in chromatic aberrations is in depth, but doesn't tell the whole story. These tests are useful like the MTF or DxO sensor tests, but I always prefer looking at the image.
 
Well I finally found one in stock just ordered a D800 from Calumet it will arrive tomorrow :clap:
Can anyone who has one confirm that my remote cords for my D300 will work ok on the D800.
Anyone have any card recomendations I have loads of SanDisk Extreme III CF cards but I'm guessing I should have faster cards than those, what speed of card is recommended?
Any good places to get a spare battery from?
 
As far as I am aware , if you are using the remote with the 10 pin connection (mc 36) then yes it will work.
 
Nice colours, what lenses are you using? Are the 100% crops to your liking?

Thanks

The lens for this one was a Sigma 150mm, the 100% crop is pretty good but this was my 1st photo so I need to have a bit more of a play. problem is I want to watch the golf, tour de france, play with camera, play with phototrigger and I'm off out to cinema soon too many things to do too little time. Play day will be tomorrow if I dont have a hangover.

Ve0j5.jpg


G6UFE.jpg
 
I am thinking of going full frame (from a d300 ) those shots are impressive the ability to crop with such detail ! ...could do with a bit of a price drop though!
 
Can i ask a practical question.
Im going from a Canon to this sometime in the near future, but i am concerned about one small feature that is actually quite important to me.
Is there any way of showing ISO AND Shutter Count at the same time? Or is it like my D7000 where its one or the other.
I need to know how many photos i can take but also like to know what my ISO will be when taking the photo.

Ta
 
Can i ask a practical question.
Im going from a Canon to this sometime in the near future, but i am concerned about one small feature that is actually quite important to me.
Is there any way of showing ISO AND Shutter Count at the same time? Or is it like my D7000 where its one or the other.
I need to know how many photos i can take but also like to know what my ISO will be when taking the photo.

Ta

I've just had a look at mine and when you look through the viewfinder I can see how many shots I have left and the current iso setting.
 
I've just had a look at mine and when you look through the viewfinder I can see how many shots I have left and the current iso setting.

Cheers for that. Same as then. So not all lost and tbf i doubt it wouldnt stop me getting this camera, just a little annoyance . :)

Ta
 
I don't want to be a party - pooper here, I've no axe to grind about the D800, and I'm not trolling, but to my eyes a few of the photos shown over the last few pages don't look as sharp as I'd want from a camera with this one's specs.

The discussion a couple of pages up re the portraits of the little girls at f20 and f9 respectively seem to show an issue I believe might be plaguing this camera and that is it's AF system.

It might be me but I've had two D800s and returned them both. They both had the much discussed left AF point inaccuracy but in addition I found the AF in genera to be unreliable. The second one would refuse to focus even with the centre AF point about 15% of the time with a 50mm f1.4 lens. ( the same lens worked fine on my D700 )

I found that the only way I could get reliably sharp shots was to put my camera on a tripod and use live view focus. In almost all cases, in using the camera's phase detect AF the results were, at best, similar to the shot of the little girl at f9 above.

I know, you probably suspect my technique but I can assure you that I used every way I knew to get good results. In any case the only variable was the use of either phase detect or contrast detect AF which confirmed it for me!

It was a real shame because when I did that the image quality was stunning but it wasn't really an option for daily use. I spoke to NPS about it and they said they'd never heard of the "Left AF point" issue. When I said the likes of Thom Hogan, Lloyd Chambers, Nasim Manurov, and many others had identified it as a real issue they simply replied that they "didn't read internet discussions". Ah well! They did say they could fix the issue and would do it in the normal 5 day NPS window but I decided to sent it back anyway. I could have just about coped with the Left AF point thing if Nikon have a fix but the generally bad results with AF was something that worried me.

Anyway, I do hope that I was just unfortunate in my two D800 bodies but I'm currently undecided as to what to do next. I sent the last one back and now have to choose between a refund or replacement. At the moment I'm really not sure. I need a back up for my D700 having sold my D300 when I ordered the D800. I'm considering buying a second D700 until I feel confident this camera's AF is 100% working.

Wooster
 
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I don't know if the problem described by Wooster is rare or common. I had in mind to purchase a D800, but I feel that there is still not enough opinion available on the performance of the camera. There are either not enough D800's in circulation and/or not enough users commenting on their experience of it.
If a lot of users were experiencing problems I would expect to see that reflected in the photogaphy press. Since the camera was launched there is actually not as much being said about it as I would expect.
 
I did have a D800 however, after running the test I also had the AF issue so went for the refund while I could. I know I could have sent it away for a fix but why should I?

I have now picked up a second hand D700 and patiently waiting for Nikon to ship without issues or the D600 to arrive.

I would also agree some of the images on here are not on par with the rival thread:shrug:
 
If a lot of users were experiencing problems I would expect to see that reflected in the photogaphy press. Since the camera was launched there is actually not as much being said about it as I would expect.

On the other hand maybe folks aren't so keen to admit that they have made an expensive mistake :shrug:
 
i really dont think we're all sitting here in embarassed silence over a "mistake"

its a fantasic camera, theres plenty of evidence out there if people bothered to go look for it to back that up. But people do seem more interested in finding evidence not to buy one. Which is fair enough if youre of a particular mindset.

Plenty of fanboys and plenty of whiners to balance them out, those of us in the middle are just enjoying a remarkable bit of kit :) I dont feel sick in the slightest actually, a little annoyed that a focus point i never use doesnt work though, although a lot of people do use it. The fact they put the CF on the dial instead of the switch annoys me far more.

I love mine and dont regret a single penny in what it cost me and couldnt give two figs if people think otherwise, they didnt stop me buying it initially and certainly arent going to make me cash it in now. As far as im concerned i made the right choice over a D700 , D800 and D3.
 
essexash said:
i really dont think we're all sitting here in embarassed silence over a "mistake"

its a fantasic camera, theres plenty of evidence out there if people bothered to go look for it to back that up. But people do seem more interested in finding evidence not to buy one. Which is fair enough if youre of a particular mindset.

Plenty of fanboys and plenty of whiners to balance them out, those of us in the middle are just enjoying a remarkable bit of kit :) I dont feel sick in the slightest actually, a little annoyed that a focus point i never use doesnt work though, although a lot of people do use it. The fact they put the CF on the dial instead of the switch annoys me far more.

I love mine and dont regret a single penny in what it cost me and couldnt give two figs if people think otherwise, they didnt stop me buying it initially and certainly arent going to make me cash it in now. As far as im concerned i made the right choice over a D700 , D800 and D3.

What he said. It's a fantastic bit of kit. All my focus points work as well
 
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i really dont think we're all sitting here in embarassed silence over a "mistake"

its a fantasic camera, theres plenty of evidence out there if people bothered to go look for it to back that up. But people do seem more interested in finding evidence not to buy one. Which is fair enough if youre of a particular mindset.

Plenty of fanboys and plenty of whiners to balance them out, those of us in the middle are just enjoying a remarkable bit of kit :) I dont feel sick in the slightest actually, a little annoyed that a focus point i never use doesnt work though, although a lot of people do use it. The fact they put the CF on the dial instead of the switch annoys me far more.

I love mine and dont regret a single penny in what it cost me and couldnt give two figs if people think otherwise, they didnt stop me buying it initially and certainly arent going to make me cash it in now. As far as im concerned i made the right choice over a D700 , D800 and D3.

All being well it is still in my scheme of things to buy one, but I firstly need to see how the this focus problem pans out. Any purchaser has a right to expect goods to be 100% correct even if they will never use a malfunctioning part of it.
 
I'm really happy that people have cameras that work. I'm not really happy that I had two that didn't. Far from being someone keen to find fault, I'm someone desperate to buy a working one ! As such I don't regard myself as a 'whiner". I do find it rich that people take the fact that some have flawed cameras as a personal affront.

To be clear, the problem with the two I had wasn't just that one focus point out of 51 one didn't work it was that from centre to right all was well. From centre to left there was an issue which gradually got worse the further to the left I went. It meant that there were quite a few of these points not working as they should.


As I say I'm really happy for those of you who got good ones, no-one is belittling your purchases, guys, but I wish you wouldn't take it as a personal affront when people point out that Nikon has doled out quite a few bad ones too
 
i really dont think we're all sitting here in embarassed silence over a "mistake"{snip}

{/snip}I dont feel sick in the slightest actually, a little annoyed that a focus point i never use doesnt work though,

So is yours faulty as well then?
 
All being well it is still in my scheme of things to buy one, but I firstly need to see how the this focus problem pans out. Any purchaser has a right to expect goods to be 100% correct even if they will never use a malfunctioning part of it.

Youre 100% correct, for what it costs you expect better quality control thats for sure! Maybe its just the way i read the posts and after a crap week at work but it just seems some people really are trying hard to make others feel bad about buying it in the first place.
 
So is yours faulty as well then?

Yes it had the left focus issue, i worked around it though to a point where i had time to send it back. Now got it back and its perfect from what i can see. Life goes on, the world keeps spinning.
 
Youre 100% correct, for what it costs you expect better quality control thats for sure! Maybe its just the way i read the posts and after a crap week at work but it just seems some people really are trying hard to make others feel bad about buying it in the first place.

I think there are factors at work here that are irritating people (esp. if, like me, a Nikon user for many decades, see a product that has problems I am not accustomed too from the Nikon stable).

Nikon launched the camera with gusto that built up expectations. Immediate problem was that getting one was anything, but easy. Next thing was that "due to an error" the price had to be bumped up. Now there seems to be a focussing issue that seems to be anything, but rare.

All very disconcerting, to say the least.
 
Didn't you watch the video?
 
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