Nikon F4 owners..have I wasted my money

[Asha]

l he only checked it out and said "it's too old and worth nothing"

Good to see that someone's got you worked out Bri

Sounds like he'll keep Grandad in check…...Best of luck to him cos we've all tried and failed

 

[excalibur2]

Might be worth trying AJ Johnstone for a free quote? https://www.ajjohnstone.co.uk/

Got an email from them and he wants me to phone him and have my camera ready erm but my hearing is not brilliant and if he has a strong Glasgow accent ..what a turn around if I'm doing something stupid and he got it working. Anyway it would be Nikon's fault for not making it fool proof

 

[Peter B]

Got an email from them and he wants me to phone him and have my camera ready erm but my hearing is not brilliant and if he has a strong Glasgow accent ..what a turn around if I'm doing something stupid and he got it working. Anyway it would be Nikon's fault for not making it fool proof

Sounds like a decent offer Brian, but don't be afraid to tell him you have hearing problems as I am sure he'll speak more clearly.

 

[RaglanSurf]

Well if Ste-S is not going to buy it...I might try these people to see if the repairs are cheaper http://www.sendeancameras.co.uk/ anyone tried them? At least they give a fee estimate, but to get an estimate the costs go up as to avoid the London congestion charge would have to use my motorbike so petrol would be £5 (for 44 miles return) or the tube probably about £7 return. so if they are dearer than Aztech it's more money down the drain,

Brian I go into London most days for work so if you want to I can take it into Sendean for you and pick it up when it’s done.

 

[excalibur2]

Brian I go into London most days for work so if you want to I can take it into Sendean for you and pick it up when it’s done.

That's a generous offer Nick, they have two places one in Clerkenwell and one in Soho and they examine the camera and send an estimate of cost by email and and is worth considering as it would save on postage costs or getting lost in the post.....but being in London with business rates etc would think they wouldn't be cheap.
We rely on Miles fixing our cameras but I got the feeling Miles doesn't want the job and referred me to Aztech, Aztech want £110 plus postage to fix it ...I sent an email to AJ Johnstone in Glasgow explaining the faults and he wants me to phone him .,,,,h'mm maybe he can fix it for £60
Anyway everything depends on whether STE_S wants the camera, if not I'll go from there, but my thoughts are: - is a repaired mint F4 worth a total cost of £195 and the guys here say go for it, but on the other hand I can get a working F4 with a few scratches from Japan for £115 inc postage so I would have two F4s for £195 one working one not but then if the working one goes wrong I'm back to square one.

 

[F1.2]

if it goes wrong I'm back to square one.

Thats the same with any camera

 

[excalibur2]

if it goes wrong I'm back to square one.

Thats the same with any camera

True but if a camera is repaired and serviced the odds of it going wrong are less and these F4s are supposed to be tough used by pros for thousands of shots.

 

[Mr Badger]

True but if a camera is repaired and serviced the odds of it going wrong are less

Which is the point I made a couple of days ago! As I said when you first bought it, I doubt it will be a £60 repair, from what I've read it's got around 1,850 parts in it and you're dealing with 1980s microprocessors and old circuit boards. Consequently, I'd be looking for an experienced repairer of cameras of that vintage, so they are familiar with the camera and know what they are doing and looking for (which should save diagnostic and repair time, which you'll be paying for!).

Based on previous experience, quotes received and work done, I think £110 for repair and full test, calibration and service on a camera like that sounds like a fair price. From what you've said you only have about a week left to get it for that price though, so perhaps that should focus your attention? To put things in perspective, I was quoted around £120 for a repair on an early 2000s canon EF (non L) IS lens by one of the mainstream repairers a couple of years ago (I kept it for spares and bought a used one for £100 instead), but if they can charge that and get work repairing and servicing modern kit then why should they take your camera repair and service on for £60?

Will the camera be worth the combined purchase and repair price? Possibly not/perhaps on a good day. Is what we do about the price of the camera though, and what was the reason you bought it in the first place? Perhaps weigh that up and see if the benefit of the expenditure is worth it to you. If not, then perhaps get rid.

If you're not careful then I can see the camera being hawked around in an attempt to get a cheaper quote (which might be chasing rainbows), then the original place being too busy to take on any new work when you finally go back to them, then you'll end up selling the thing for what you paid for it after wasting hours of your time. Three sayings I've picked up from some wise old folk over the years; 'penny wise but pound foolish' , ' first loss is often best' and 'If something is preying on your mind then take two doses of bugger it'! I often find the answer lies somewhere between the three... but sometimes this only becomes apparent after the event! Hope this is useful and you make the right choice for your circumstances.

 

[excalibur2]

Which is the point I made a couple of days ago! As I said when you first bought it, I doubt it will be a £60 repair, from what I've read it's got around 1,850 parts in it and you're dealing with 1980s microprocessors and old circuit boards. Consequently, I'd be looking for an experienced repairer of cameras of that vintage, so they are familiar with the camera and know what they are doing and looking for (which should save diagnostic and repair time, which you'll be paying for!).

Based on previous experience, quotes received and work done, I think £110 for repair and full test, calibration and service on a camera like that sounds like a fair price. From what you've said you only have about a week left to get it for that price though, so perhaps that should focus your attention? To put things in perspective, I was quoted around £120 for a repair on an early 2000s canon EF (non L) IS lens by one of the mainstream repairers a couple of years ago (I kept it for spares and bought a used one for £100 instead), but if they can charge that and get work repairing and servicing modern kit then why should they take your camera repair and service on for £60?

Will the camera be worth the combined purchase and repair price? Possibly not/perhaps on a good day. Is what we do about the price of the camera though, and what was the reason you bought it in the first place? Perhaps weigh that up and see if the benefit of the expenditure is worth it to you. If not, then perhaps get rid.

If you're not careful then I can see the camera being hawked around in an attempt to get a cheaper quote (which might be chasing rainbows), then the original place being too busy to take on any new work when you finally go back to them, then you'll end up selling the thing for what you paid for it after wasting hours of your time. Three sayings I've picked up from some wise old folk over the years; 'penny wise but pound foolish' , ' first loss is often best' and 'If something is preying on your mind then take two doses of bugger it'! I often find the answer lies somewhere between the three... but sometimes this only becomes apparent after the event! Hope this is useful and you make the right choice for your circumstances.

Excellent post but if I had the F4 for years and taken 100s of shots it would be less painful paying out £115 for repair and CLA. Anyway all info in this thread is interesting as all the guys owning F4s, F5s, F100s, T90s etc etc and they go wrong are going to have the same problem of where to go.

 

[Phiggys]

The F4 is the best looking of all the single digit F series, sure it doesn’t have the charm of the F2 or the modern dingly dangly bits of the F5 or F6 but for functionality and aesthetics it’s top of the Nikon F tree for me.

Just goes to show that beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess for me it’s the original F from 59 onwards I have a number of these with different heads 7 if memory serves me right ?
Also 4x F2s with drives and different heads just one x F3 with drive 1xF4s and 1 x F5.
I can’t I ever really fancied the F6 but I did get to handle one at a recent camera fair
He also had a beautiful early range finder in almost mint condition! Very desirable Well at least it was for me.

 

[Phiggys]

If you've got a couple of Canon EF lenses in stock, probably the best bang for buck at the moment is the EOS 30 SLR. It has a 35 zone evaluate metering system (which works really well), 7 point eye controlled focus (which also works very well), it's fairly compact and light and has to be the quietist 35mm auto-wind SLR I've used. As long as you treat the film door latch gently when opening and closing it then it should serve you well for years to come. As you'll probably remember, I also have an EOS-3, which is a fantastic camera spec-wise, results-wise and build-quality wise and I wouldn't want to part with it, but I find the EOS 30 does most of what that will do, and is noticably smaller and lighter. Anyway, thought you might be interested in that if you're looking to extend or rationalise your camera collection.

Hmm another Canon with a dodgy batterydoor was theA series AL1 and why oh why those AAA batteries and not AA.
I loved using it back in the day

 

[Phiggys]

I'm all right for the Canon AF side with EOS 300 and 300v with a couple of kit zooms but unfortunately all my good lenses are FD\FDn. With the F4 I can use all my Nikon lenses and that leads me to a question: - Can the F4 take a Tamron adaptall mount?

Yes it’s how I got into theNikon system again after having all my gear stolen
I still had at home a few Tamron adaptall lenses both primes and zooms back then most were virtually worthless as everyone wanted AF lenses and cameras.
That really was the beauty of Tamron lenses they were excellent quality and the mount could be changed for any brand of camera system.

 

[excalibur2]

Yes it’s how I got into theNikon system again after having all my gear stolen
I still had at home a few Tamron adaptall lenses both primes and zooms back then most were virtually worthless as everyone wanted AF lenses and cameras.
That really was the beauty of Tamron lenses they were excellent quality and the mount could be changed for any brand of camera system.

The only fault with Nikon is it wont take M42 lenses, but if you haven't got any then it doesn't matter

 

[excalibur2]

Another thought is to buy a bare F4 body like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nikon-F4...h=item3b214740f8:g:9RQAAOSwup1bvBfs:rk:7:pf:0 well if in the UK and cheaper, but then I think why strip down a working F4 of the prism and battery holder

 

[StephenM]

then I think why strip down a working F4 of the prism and battery holder

Because you can?

 

[excalibur2]

Because you can?

Well yes but it is the reason why...for me I'd strip my F4 because it's not working properly and just seems strange stripping a perfectly working F4....unless it's worn out.

 

[excalibur2]

Well guys I've made my decision and think to pay another £115 to repair a camera that I would only use in between using my other cameras would be silly....so I'll either split in to DP-20, MB-20 and the body (this for spares) to sell OR try and find a VG working basic F4 and add my bits on.
H'mm I wonder if any digi guys reading have a basic F4 they want to sell cheap...if so I'll use the wanted list.

 

[excalibur2]

Still looking for places to repair my F4 at a reasonable price and coming to the conclusion that any expensive film camera in the future could be a liability if anything goes wrong..two old guys (different firms) have retired and if Miles retires that shortens the list. Are young guys being trained for old cameras esp the electronic ones? Which gets me thinking why does someone retire as it seems a nice job at home repairing cameras.... have too much money for retirement? Health or eye sight deteriorating? h'mm

 

[excalibur2]

Got a reply from these and they don't repair the F4 anymore

Newton Ellis & Company (Est.1948).
29 Cheapside, Liverpool, L2 2DY, UK
Telephone - 0151 236 1391.

 

[Peter B]

Which gets me thinking why does someone retire as it seems a nice job at home repairing cameras.... have too much money for retirement? Health or eye sight deteriorating? h'mm

As someone who has been doing training courses as a semi-retired person, you can get too much work coming your way. I'm guessing some of these guys might do a bit of work on something interesting in the future, but they're not looking for work and they don't want deadlines and people chasing them up. I'm absolutely with them on that, but it does reduce the chances of getting repairs done in future.

 

[excalibur2]

As someone who has been doing training courses as a semi-retired person, you can get too much work coming your way. I'm guessing some of these guys might do a bit of work on something interesting in the future, but they're not looking for work and they don't want deadlines and people chasing them up. I'm absolutely with them on that, but it does reduce the chances of getting repairs done in future.

..and it looks like these old guys don't want the hassle of training someone young and sit back and take a cut of the profits...otherwise they would do it.

 

[Peter B]

..and it looks like these old guys don't want the hassle of training someone young and sit back and take a cut of the profits...otherwise they would do it.

It's a balancing act Brian. I was once asked to take someone on as an employee to do work that I didn't want to do myself, but when you start looking at wages, sick pay, pension, holidays and all the rest it can be quite daunting. You'd almost certainly have to put your prices up to cover that, so you'll maybe get less business in futue. And once they've learned the skills, they might set up in competition to you!

 

[excalibur2]

It's a balancing act Brian. I was once asked to take someone on as an employee to do work that I didn't want to do myself, but when you start looking at wages, sick pay, pension, holidays and all the rest it can be quite daunting. You'd almost certainly have to put your prices up to cover that, so you'll maybe get less business in futue. And once they've learned the skills, they might set up in competition to you!

Handy as the new guy could be useful for repairing cameras Anyway the old guy was going to retire anyway so probably wouldn't care.

 

[Andysnap]

I also suspect that even if they did want to take someone on it would be very difficult to find anyone who wanted to learn the trade.

 

[excalibur2]

Well my advice to filmies, who are not wealthy, is not to pay too much for an electronic camera as if anything goes wrong and if you can find a place to repair it.......it's going to be expensive.
Japan seems the cheapest place for cameras and bodies etc (maybe the USA)...and UK and Europe is so expensive, makes me think we have been ripped off by the EU with rules and regulations and taxes.

 

[Fraser Euan White]

In fairness though Brian I don't consider £120 for a CLA expensive at all.
How much do you pay for your car to be annually serviced?
This will be done by an apprentice and is usually just oil & filter with no special skills required.

 

[Asha]

I haven't looked back through the thread but i seem to recall that you had a potential buyer for the F4 with a view to him keeping the grip and moving on the body or something like that.

I was under the impression that you'd dealt with it via classifieds….Obviously not if you still have the F4

 

[excalibur2]

In fairness though Brian I don't consider £120 for a CLA expensive at all.
How much do you pay for your car to be annually serviced?
This will be done by an apprentice and is usually just oil & filter with no special skills required.

Well if my alternator on the car packed up I just want that fixed not a full service of the car also checking brakes etc...I'm just hoping an experienced person knows exactly what's wrong i.e. shutter and mirror not working (could be just magnets stuck together from non use), fixes just that in about 1 and 1/4 hours and charges £60 h'mm I don't think I'm going to get that in the UK.

 

[excalibur2]

I haven't looked back through the thread but i seem to recall that you had a potential buyer for the F4 with a view to him keeping the grip and moving on the body or something like that.

I was under the impression that you'd dealt with it via classifieds….Obviously not if you still have the F4

The guy didn't want it as his battery holder was ok when he used his camera.

 

[excalibur2]

The guy didn't want it as his battery holder was ok when he used his camera.

I still haven't given up on the F4 and have tried wanted in classifieds but no reply, the last resort would be to get an excellent working body from Japan all in about £65, but could be stung with custom or VAT etc rip-off
erm I dont fancy going to Japan for a holiday to get it cheaper

 

[Asha]

last resort would be to get an excellent working body from Japan all in about £65

but could be stung with custom or VAT etc rip-off

Maybe 25% ….still only gunna cost ya about £80

You're not gunna get a fully working, good cosmetic condition F4 for a "bootie" price Bri…...sorry but that's the truth!

 

[excalibur2]

Maybe 25% ….still only gunna cost ya about £80

You're not gunna get a fully working, good cosmetic condition F4 for a "bootie" price Bri…...sorry but that's the truth!

Well I have time on my side...but if I get fed up with the F4 stuck in a drawer I'll split it up and sell....should get more than £74 that I paid for it.

 

[Mr Badger]

Well if my alternator on the car packed up I just want that fixed not a full service of the car also checking brakes etc...I'm just hoping an experienced person knows exactly what's wrong i.e. shutter and mirror not working (could be just magnets stuck together from non use), fixes just that in about 1 and 1/4 hours and charges £60 h'mm I don't think I'm going to get that in the UK.

So you find a bargain repairer and pay about £70 plus postage for 1 & 1/4 hours labour to strip down, free the sticking part, then reassemble the camera? You don't want to pay for any other cleaning, lubrication, adjustment and calibration while your camera is stripped down and accessible. So the camera comes back to you with the original single fault fixed and 'working'. Whoopee! Shame about the fact that 1/1000 shutter speed is actually 1/500 of a second, the meter is a stop too slow and there's a nasty squeak from what turns out to be a dry bearing on the mirror mechanism.

Pity all that hypothetical (but potentially quite possible) mither could have been sorted out (perhaps for years to come) by paying what amounts to a small (by today's standards) additional amount for a full CLA while the technician had the camera in bits. Even bigger pity that one of the last people who will/could repair a camera of that make and model has now retired and you can't get it sorted at a reasonable price, or possibly at any price, anymore!

Brian, if you have missed the boat with the chap that's retiring then put it down to experience, take it on the chin, sell the camera (if you can) and move on. I seriously doubt that any full time, professional repairer is going to want to take a camera as complex as a Nikon F4 to bits for less than that original chap quoted, let alone fix the fault and give it a full CLA and reassemble it. No wonder he's retiring, he's probably sick of working long hours for very little financial reward by today's salary standards. Sorry if this seems harsh, but there's no point in me dressing things up as I really do think you're on a unicorn hunt looking for a (significantly) cheaper 'like for like' quote.

 

[excalibur2]

So you find a bargain repairer and pay about £70 plus postage for 1 & 1/4 hours labour to strip down, free the sticking part, then reassemble the camera? You don't want to pay for any other cleaning, lubrication, adjustment and calibration while your camera is stripped down and accessible. So the camera comes back to you with the original single fault fixed and 'working'. Whoopee! Shame about the fact that 1/1000 shutter speed is actually 1/500 of a second, the meter is a stop too slow and there's a nasty squeak from what turns out to be a dry bearing on the mirror mechanism.

Pity all that hypothetical (but potentially quite possible) mither could have been sorted out (perhaps for years to come) by paying what amounts to a small (by today's standards) additional amount for a full CLA while the technician had the camera in bits. Even bigger pity that one of the last people who will/could repair a camera of that make and model has now retired and you can't get it sorted at a reasonable price, or possibly at any price, anymore!

Brian, if you have missed the boat with the chap that's retiring then put it down to experience, take it on the chin, sell the camera (if you can) and move on. I seriously doubt that any full time, professional repairer is going to want to take a camera as complex as a Nikon F4 to bits for less than that original chap quoted, let alone fix the fault and give it a full CLA and reassemble it. No wonder he's retiring, he's probably sick of working long hours for very little financial reward by today's salary standards. Sorry if this seems harsh, but there's no point in me dressing things up as I really do think you're on a unicorn hunt looking for a (significantly) cheaper 'like for like' quote.

Yes I know what you are saying but I find myself relating prices to a state pension of £155/week...must be an age thing

 

[Mr Badger]

Yes I know what you are saying but I find myself relating prices to a state pension of £155/week...must be an age thing

I know what you mean, but when you add commercial overheads (insurances, heating, lighting, water, business rates, rent/ownership and maintenance of business premises, purchase and maintenance of equipment, VAT, tax, NIC, accountancy fees, tax return filing, etc.) to the cost of living then you can understand why people's charge-out rates are the price they are.

Unfortunately, £155/week alone is barely enough to exist on these days, let alone have any hobbies or interests if that's your sole source of income... but look on the bright side, at least you've got that. They're apparently considering another review of the pensionable age at the moment, with mutterings about raising the qualifying age to 70. In my case the last Labour government stole 2 years of my retirement as I now have to be 67 before I can draw a state pension, which is not what I was told, signed up to and started paying towards to when I started full-time work at the age of 16!

In my opinion it's alright for the 'University brigade' who don't seem to start work until they're in their mid 20s (to pushing 30) these days, but those people who've done a manual job and/or been on their feet a good percentage of their working life since they started work at 15 or 16 are often suffering the consequences of a life of physical (and mental) hard graft when they get to their mid 60s, so where's the equality there? Instead of unilaterally raising the pension age wouldn't it be fairer to say that each person has got to pay in a set number of years contributions to qualify for full state pension, and once they've done that they can retire (if they wish)? Eg. Start work at 16 and pay in all your contributions each year and you qualify for full state pension at 65... start work at 30 and do the same and you qualify for full state pension at 79. Simple!

Sorry to go off on a slight tangent here, but you mentioned state pensions and it set me off! So I can see where your coming from, but hopefully you can see what it's like to be working (and possibly planning for retirement - if the government stop moving the target) these days, and perhaps why things cost the price they do.

 

[medwaygreen]

I still haven't given up on the F4 and have tried wanted in classifieds but no reply, the last resort would be to get an excellent working body from Japan all in about £65, but could be stung with custom or VAT etc rip-off
erm I dont fancy going to Japan for a holiday to get it cheaper

I do not know what you are looking at,but, you will not find a excellent working F4s body from Japan or anywhere else for that money.

 

[excalibur2]

I do not know what you are looking at,but, you will not find a excellent working F4s body from Japan or anywhere else for that money.

Well I've seen them cheaper but prices are creeping up atm e.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nikon-F4...h=item3d7b3b4e04:g:fuEAAOSwuHJboyMD:rk:6:pf:0

A complete F4 is £113 (later serial number) with free delivery plus maybe VAT etc to get into the UK https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nikon-F4...=item4b5609b965:g:0rQAAOSwKLVbWTCi:rk:17:pf:0

 

[excalibur2]

I know what you mean, but when you add commercial overheads (insurances, heating, lighting, water, business rates, rent/ownership and maintenance of business premises, purchase and maintenance of equipment, VAT, tax, NIC, accountancy fees, tax return filing, etc.) to the cost of living then you can understand why people's charge-out rates are the price they are.

Unfortunately, £155/week alone is barely enough to exist on these days, let alone have any hobbies or interests if that's your sole source of income... but look on the bright side, at least you've got that. They're apparently considering another review of the pensionable age at the moment, with mutterings about raising the qualifying age to 70. In my case the last Labour government stole 2 years of my retirement as I now have to be 67 before I can draw a state pension, which is not what I was told, signed up to and started paying towards to when I started full-time work at the age of 16!

In my opinion it's alright for the 'University brigade' who don't seem to start work until they're in their mid 20s (to pushing 30) these days, but those people who've done a manual job and/or been on their feet a good percentage of their working life since they started work at 15 or 16 are often suffering the consequences of a life of physical (and mental) hard graft when they get to their mid 60s, so where's the equality there? Instead of unilaterally raising the pension age wouldn't it be fairer to say that each person has got to pay in a set number of years contributions to qualify for full state pension, and once they've done that they can retire (if they wish)? Eg. Start work at 16 and pay in all your contributions each year and you qualify for full state pension at 65... start work at 30 and do the same and you qualify for full state pension at 79. Simple!

Sorry to go off on a slight tangent here, but you mentioned state pensions and it set me off! So I can see where your coming from, but hopefully you can see what it's like to be working (and possibly planning for retirement - if the government stop moving the target) these days, and perhaps why things cost the price they do.

Well for every one getting old (if you don't have rich children) is you have to rely on state pension, assets and savings and to prevent the government from snatching anything on death duties....well the problem is:- you don't know how long you are going to live, my wife says "live it up now and have everything we want (new cars etc) as tomorrow never comes", for me I'd rather plan for about 10 years as there is nothing worse than being old and poor.

 

[spark303]

Well I've seen them cheaper but prices are creeping up atm e.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nikon-F4...h=item3d7b3b4e04:g:fuEAAOSwuHJboyMD:rk:6:pf:0

A complete F4 is £113 (later serial number) with free delivery plus maybe VAT etc to get into the UK https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nikon-F4...=item4b5609b965:g:0rQAAOSwKLVbWTCi:rk:17:pf:0

Not directly relating to F4's, but Nikon F2 repairer extraordinaire, Sover Wong, has posted many examples on the Nikon F2 Facebook page of F2's he's received for repair, that had been bought from Japan and elsewhere in Asia supposedly in good condition which turned out to look great on the outside but were full of fungus and corrosion on the inside. Based on that I might be wary of buying used from Japan.

Apologies if someone has already suggested this but upthread you say that the mirror isn't lifting up and the shutter isn't firing. If that's the case can't you raise a case with eBay based on the fact that even though the seller advertised the camera as spares or repairs, he said it was it was able to take a photo as long as you turned it off and on after each shot which isn't actually the case?

 

[excalibur2]

Apologies if someone has already suggested this but upthread you say that the mirror isn't lifting up and the shutter isn't firing. If that's the case can't you raise a case with eBay based on the fact that even though the seller advertised the camera as spares or repairs, he said it was it was able to take a photo as long as you turned it off and on after each shot which isn't actually the case?

Well that's a good point that I missed but thinking it was the reason I bought it in the first place as I didn't mind switching on and off to take shots, but I've already given a positive feedback? I suppose I wasn't too worried finding a way to send the f4 back as members said I can't really lose my money as I could sell the workings parts and get my money back.
As for buying from Japan there doesn't seem much choice as F4 bodies in the UK are scarce (or a silly price) but you never know in time some might come along.