Nikon to Canon - Logical or Mad?

The only drawbacks I see regarding a 36mp sensor are the size of the RAW files [HDD space is so cheap these days, hardly a huge issue, SD cards are also pretty cheap] and less fps - unless you shoot fast-paced sports, this is also a non-issue.
 
I don't think 75mb files are an issue in terms of storage but it is in terms of processing power.

My computer is old, needs upgrading, it can just handle the 30mb files from the mkii and mkiii. Getting the D800 for me would mean needing to find another thousand pound for a new computer.
 
Looks like I've started a bit of a discussion here! :)

Thanks to everyone for their opinions, although I must admit its making my decision even harder in ways, easier in others.

My general opinion is still that for wedding and portraiture, the 5d is a much better all rounder, having a good combination of resolution, speed, and low noise. This is the same reason I was attracted to the D700.
The D800 is a fantastic camera but when applied to wedding photography only, I think it has too much resolution and not enough speed. I think Nikon are pushing wedding photographers towards the D4, which will never be an option for me.

I also don't consider myself to be very invested in Nikon yet, only having 1 body and 2 lenses. In the next 3 months I will have to double my setup (and spend) so why not look at the alternatives before its too late?
 
Yeah - neither of them look perfect...
But the D800 noise was a surprise.

It isn't when you look at the way they get video.

D800 does lineskipping, so doesn't actually use the whole sensor. This trashes lowlight and aliasing performance, as the total capture area is smaller. The 5D3 does a naive downsampling, so while it uses more of the sensor (and hence does way, way better in low light as the tests show (my favourite is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfA2mTMt0u8&feature=player_embedded, it's a review more funny than serious, but actually tests things well), it looks a bit mushy. Compare both the video grabs to a properly downsampled still. It's horrible.

I just want to see how the OP likes his eventual Canon :p
 
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Can anyone point me to a link with images showing the Canon giving worse noise performance than the Nikon?
 
Can anyone point me to a link with images showing the Canon giving worse noise performance than the Nikon?

Worse noise performance where? Low ISO shadows? There are plenty, a 5 second goodle search will find them.

High ISO midtones? There aren't any because they're much of a muchness (5D3 is a bit smoother, D800 has 'better' colour though better just means not terrible)
 
How high do you really need your ISO? I can't really ever see me needing much more than 3200, and that's when shooting gigs under not-so-great stage lighting. And both cameras will produce clean enough images at that level. You're talking nit-picky differences.
 
How high do you really need your ISO? I can't really ever see me needing much more than 3200, and that's when shooting gigs under not-so-great stage lighting. And both cameras will produce clean enough images at that level. You're talking nit-picky differences.

If I had a good 25600 I could easily find a use for it. Shooting sports can put you at 1600 or 3200 even during the day (wakeboarding on an overcast afternoon or near sunset), not to mention floodlit night games. Then there's evening and nighttime events where you dno't want to kill the atmosphere in a photo with flash...It'd also let me get shots with more than one person in focus in the frame (higher ISO would let me shoot at f/2.8 or f/4 instead of f/1.4).
 
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How high do you really need your ISO? I can't really ever see me needing much more than 3200, and that's when shooting gigs under not-so-great stage lighting. And both cameras will produce clean enough images at that level. You're talking nit-picky differences.

There has been many times I've needed more than 3200 in some truly awful pokey little churches that have bugger all light. Especially if I'm using the 70-200 to get a decent enough shutter! Its why I sold my D90 and replaced it with a D3. :)
 
I've shot at 3200 with my D90 at gigs. The light does have to be spot on, and the images could be much cleaner of course. But I can't ever see me needing above that or 6400, with a better sensor. I don't think many situations call for high ISO near as much as a gig in a dimly lit bar. And I've kept a whole band in focus at 2.8 no problem.
 
I am having the opposite dilemma. I am going Nikon from Canon as the nikons images just look a whole lot better and the iso performance is another reason, and the nikons just feel better in the hand. So I have a 5D up for sale if yer interested? The ultimate wedding togs camera.
 
Well a quick google search showed me this

http://www.techradar.com/news/photo...i-vs-nikon-d800-1082753/page:6#articleContent

which suggests the opposite

If anyone could point me to some evidence I'd be most grateful and also quite surprised

I'll assume you're not trolling and somehow didn't see all the reviews that come up.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/index.html

There's one that's actually well done (techradar are terrible for camera reviews).

I've shot at 3200 with my D90 at gigs. The light does have to be spot on, and the images could be much cleaner of course. But I can't ever see me needing above that or 6400, with a better sensor. I don't think many situations call for high ISO near as much as a gig in a dimly lit bar. And I've kept a whole band in focus at 2.8 no problem.

1) You're saying it yourself - "the light has to be spot on, and the images could be much cleaner" - with better performance you have more leeway with exposure and you also get cleaner images. Then there's the issue with gigs being more that the light is bad (again fixable with better high ISO as you can correct the colour better) rather than there being not enough, and then there's also the ability to cheat with shutter speed a bit at gigs - going to 1/200 or even 1/100 you can still get some usable action shots. Try that with wakeboarding or a rugby tackle :)

And I think our definitions of dimly lit differ just a little. "Dimly lit" for me is 1/60 f/1.4 ISO6400. Anything more than that is positively bathed in light :)

As an example - f/1.4, 1/60, ISO8000 (and if 12800 wasn't a mess I'd have used it)

4.jpg


With timing, luck, and a slow moment (same lighting): f/1.4, 1/6, ISO1100 (there's still camera shake, but it doesn't matter too much here. Another subject and another FL, it would).

4.jpg


If I had ISO25600 that looked even like that 8000 shot you better believe I could use it :).
 
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I'll assume you're not trolling and somehow didn't see all the reviews that come up.
.

No I truthfully am not trolling :) Don't get me wrong, I own Nikon and love my D700 so don't have an axe to grind. I genuinely am surprised though.

I will give the review a gander shortly but thanks for the link in the meantime.
 
I don't think 75mb files are an issue in terms of storage but it is in terms of processing power.

My computer is old, needs upgrading, it can just handle the 30mb files from the mkii and mkiii. Getting the D800 for me would mean needing to find another thousand pound for a new computer.

they're about 45mb. But take your point.

The D800 is a fantastic camera but when applied to wedding photography only, I think it has too much resolution and not enough speed.

How much speed do you need? 4 FPS is more then enough for weddings or portraits
 
Nice shots there ausemmao [obviously added in later than my comment about the dark]

While we're sharing, here's an example of my gig shooting:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cagey75/6297121738/in/set-72157626148732984/

That was about the best I've got at 3200, 1/80, f/2.8. I happened to get the timing on the lights spot on.

Rarely shoot at 3200, as the D90 starts crying around there, and I don't like these "Hi" ISO options.

When i get me a D800, and I will soon, it'll be a treat to shoot at 6400 and FX, to me, that is a high. I don't think I'll ever much over that. I think it'll be a while before anyone comes up with a clean solution to 25k. Of course it would be great, but at what price??
 
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Nice shots there ausemmao [obviously added in later than my comment about the dark]

While we're sharing, here's an example of my gig shooting:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cagey75/6297121738/in/set-72157626148732984/

That was about the best I've got at 3200, 1/80, f/2.8. I happened to get the timing on the lights spot on.

Rarely shoot at 3200, as the D90 starts crying around there, and I don't like these "Hi" ISO options.

When i get me a D800, and I will soon, it'll be a treat to shoot at 6400 and FX, to me, that is a high. I don't think I'll ever much over that. I think it'll be a while before anyone comes up with a clean solution to 25k. Of course it would be great, but at what price??

Yeah, I edited them in a few minutes after I posted as I thought illustration of the light levels I'm thinking of would be useful.

I like your concert images, the singer having a drink shrouded in smoke works very well :)

A D800 would be able to get the same quality of my ISO8000 shot at ISO16000. If 3200's your limit on the D90, I think you'll be happy at 10000 on the D800.

Getting that quality at 25600 isn't that far away - once a way is figured out to get rid of the CFA in front of the sensor while retaining colour. If colour were irrelevant, it could be done now.
 
Cheers. I am really looking forward to pushing to those numbers. I'll probably be hesitant the first few times :D
 
How did I ever manage to shoot weddings on film?
A couple of rolls of film
Iso 160 Kodak Veri colour or Agfa Portrait
One body
One lens
One flashgun.
One light meter
Oh and a thumb to wind film onto the next frame.

Today it appears we need two bodies with hi iso low noise, multiple fps, multiple ultrafast lens, and software to correct our mistakes ? :-D
 
Oh and no way of reviewing the image till the proofs were printed !
 
But shooting 1500 images ?
How many would you actually use ?
 
Does it matter? Beyond some idea that shooting film with just one lens, one flash, one lightmeter and one body is somehow more 'purist' than shooting digital?

Most weddings didn't shoot from morning until dancing back then. Because the kit didn't allow that approach. And let's dispense with the idea that 'mistakes' weren't corrected in darkrooms because that's revisionist nonsense.

It does now - end product is very different, as is what we can shoot, and where.

I shoot with 2 bodies, 2 primes and no flash. But who really cares?
 
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Or that we're shooting weddings very differently now....
But as a seasoned pro I wouldn't mind betting you could still do the shoot on film with the minimum amount of gear ?
 
But as a seasoned pro I wouldn't mind betting you could still do the shoot on film with the minimum amount of gear ?

Could I shoot how I do, the way I do, in the light I do, with film?

Probably.

Would the results come anywhere close?

No.
 
Does it matter? Beyond some idea that shooting film with just one lens, one flash, one lightmeter and one body is somehow more 'purist' than shooting digital?

Most weddings didn't shoot from morning until dancing back then. Because the kit didn't allow that approach. And let's dispense with the idea that 'mistakes' weren't corrected in darkrooms because that's revisionist nonsense.

It does now - end product is very different, as is what we can shoot, and where.

I shoot with 2 bodies, 2 primes and no flash. But who really cares?

No not purest but it as you said two bodies two primes and looking at your work I'm sure you could produce the same quality work for a client.
 
Hey everybody

In the last few days I have been really thinking about making the switch form Nikon to Canon, and I would be intrigued to find out other people’s opinions on it. And to make sure I’m making a logical decision.

I have shot two weddings this year, some second shooting lined up, with 3 more booked next year with hopefully more on the way. I know a lot of people say it, but this is something I seriously want to pursue. I have never had as much fun with a camera in my hand then while shooting a wedding!

I have only ever owned a single DSLR, my current D700 since Jan last year. I went straight to the camera (at the time) that was the best all rounder and I would grow into. In terms of lenses, I use only a 35mm f1.4 and 85mm f1.4 and a couple of SB900’s now and then. And I adore this setup for weddings and portraits so far.

As I’m shooting weddings, I of course need to invest in a second body, but I just can’t bring myself to buy another D700. As well as being discontinued by Nikon, it doesn’t offer me the resolution I need for the larger full page photo books that I want to provide to clients, and doesn’t offer dual memory card slots I want for that extra insurance on the day. I have no problem with the image quality or autofocus of the D700.

My upgrade path here seems to be either another D700 or a D800. And I want neither. The D800 is just too much resolution, and I don’t have the funds to improve my storage / computer to deal with the files, particularly at this early stage of my photography business. After using a D800 briefly, it is also a very different camera to the D700, in terms or ergonomics so would be more difficult to shoot together, not to mention the 3x difference in resolution. It just doesn’t make sense for weddings imho.

Finally, and this is the big one for me, is that Nikon offer very limited options for fast primes above 150mm. I like to shoot light, and a 70-200 isn’t an option. I’ve tried, it just isn’t for me. But I do need a longer lens for doing the speeches and ceremony, as this is where I have struggled so far. The AFD 135mm is an option, but it’s not long enough, I’m put off by the noisy AF, and the potential quality on the demanding D800.

But on the other hand. Canon have made my ideal camera in the form of the 5D MKIII. It’s the same price as the D800, but hits the sweet spot for AF, High ISO, duel card slots and just enough extra resolution without eating up loads of storage. My initial research seems to suggest that the Canon 35mm f1.4 is comparable to the Nikon, albeit with faster autofocus. The Canon 85mm is f1.2, also has great reviews so I assume could be a actually better than the Nikon. And finally, Canon offer a 200mm f2.8, for very little outlay that looks to be sharp, small and light with quick AF, which sounds perfect for me. I’m also keen on the fact that the 5D MkII and MkIII share the same battery, have similar resolution and button layout, making a MkII a good backup body/second body to use until I have earned enough to justify another mkIII. (as long as I have the work coming in to justify it)

Sorry for the long post, but I’m trying to approach this as logically as I can. As hobbyist, I don’t really care either way. But this is a lot of money/investment and going forward I don’t want to regret my decisions, and one that could affect the start-up of my business and ability to take on more wedding and portrait work.

So am I mad? Or does this make perfect sense? Does it even matter? :p

Love to hear your thoughts. :)


I did the same exact move and sold my D700 and purchased the 5D MK3 and so pleased i did, the files on my old PC are still manageable in lightrrom and storage on my small hard drive.
I did make the switch to Nikon a few years ago from Canon as i really loved the D700.
I have no regrets and love the 5D3 and Canon lenses.

Good luck
Tony
 
No not purest but it as you said two bodies two primes and looking at your work I'm sure you could produce the same quality work for a client.

See - I'm not sure I could. I couldn't shoot low-light churches at ISO6400 with impunity like I do now and get that clean a result.
 
But to best of my limited knowledge iso 6400 film doesn't exist unless its pushed which obviously degrades image quality.
How many images do you shoot in a church at such a high iso and could you not get the same image at a lower iso ?
 
Exactly - nor speeches at 10,000 sometimes. Bridal prep in a house, often 3200-6400.

Enough that I need it for the way I shoot (handheld). So I'm stopping motion and need the shutter speed up. Monopod isn't going to help me if I'm at ISO800 but only getting 1/50s. Handheld at 3200 and 1/200s. I can work with that.

For instance, December last year I shot a wedding in Winchester Cathedral. 3pm ceremony on a dark, wet day, and the lights failed. I was at ISO12800, f1.6 to get 1/100s and still got more than satisfactory results. Simply not possible with film.
 
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But to best of my limited knowledge iso 6400 film doesn't exist unless its pushed which obviously degrades image quality.
How many images do you shoot in a church at such a high iso and could you not get the same image at a lower iso ?

No. Not the same shots, we could shoot speeches and prep with film but it'd mean lots of lighting setup or compromising on image quality (the ceremony would be a no in most venues). It's not the same product. Just like I can't open my 1980's tool chest and service a 2013 car. Just like I have hundreds of channels on the TV, the world is a different place.

Today's wedding customers wouldn't want the product I delivered in the 80's. Not that there was anything wrong with it in the 80's, but they wouldn't want a MkIII Escort either or a CRT TV with 4 channels :help:. I'm a lot closer to 'the average wedding photographer' than Guy is, I can happily shoot with a film camera, which I'd guess a lot of younger guys couldn't, but the outcome is still the same. Shooting weddings on film creates a completely different product, one that certainly could be marketed, but would almost certainly be a worse product VFM wise. There's merit in trying to create a unique product and carving out a market for it, but it's a riskier business proposition than competing in an established market with the current established products.
 
I have shot digital myself for over a decade now and have been shooting for more than five decades.
I not knocking digital by any means I wish it had been around a lot sooner.
But it's appears that if a lot of people don't have the latest gear.
Then they feel what they do have is obsolete or inadequate for the job?
What ever gear you have is still as good as the day you purchased it and certainly doesn't become a bad camera overnight.
It will still produce the same quality image as it did when you first had it even if you don't have as many pixels or high iso settings.
I guess it's just human nature to some people to want the latest and so called best piece of gear.
I have been just as much a victim in the past as the next person.
but does it make you a better photographer ?
It may well make it easier to capture the image but it's only as good as your technique and composition.
 
I have shot digital myself for over a decade now and have been shooting for more than five decades.
I not knocking digital by any means I wish it had been around a lot sooner.
But it's appears that if a lot of people don't have the latest gear.
Then they feel what they do have is obsolete or inadequate for the job?
What ever gear you have is still as good as the day you purchased it and certainly doesn't become a bad camera overnight.
It will still produce the same quality image as it did when you first had it even if you don't have as many pixels or high iso settings.
I guess it's just human nature to some people to want the latest and so called best piece of gear.
I have been just as much a victim in the past as the next person.
but does it make you a better photographer ?
It may well make it easier to capture the image but it's only as good as your technique and composition.
Actually this isn't something I see amongst Pro's, and I don't think the OP is coming from here either, the OP has recognised that he needs an improvement in resolution to fill a double page spread in an album. Nikon offer him something that he considers a bit OTT (the latest and greatest) which he feels is overkill, so he's considering a switch. (well - he was over 12 months ago.... :rolleyes:)
 
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