Nikon Z* mirrorless
- Thread starter Scots_quine
- Start date
- Messages
- 3,101
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Not really its full of videos and threads about the horror of only having one card slot and a number of strange american photographers presenting camera reviews.Don't you just love the internet and social media
How did we manage with one roll of film at a time
- Messages
- 8,063
- Name
- Andrew
- Edit My Images
- No
Which forum that from?
- Messages
- 16,746
- Name
- Keith
- Edit My Images
- No
Look up top, its' from Dpreview
I said it earlier, there's always hidden performance boosts with these updates
- Messages
- 23,613
- Name
- Toby
- Edit My Images
- No
No-one knows for sure, my guess would be no, not in the near future anyway.
- Messages
- 16,746
- Name
- Keith
- Edit My Images
- No
Don't you know? Sony are the be all, end all of photography these days
- Messages
- 23,613
- Name
- Toby
- Edit My Images
- No
I’m not sure it would make sense owning two brands competing in the same market tbh. It might make more sense for someone like Samsung to bail them out if it ever came to it. I think we’re some way off that yet tbh.
- Messages
- 23,613
- Name
- Toby
- Edit My Images
- No
What is?
- Messages
- 8,063
- Name
- Andrew
- Edit My Images
- No
Nikon getting into this state.
All they need do is bring out the correct firmware. Or bring out the z6ii and match Sony AF then they be in it since everything else about there cameras is great
- Messages
- 16,746
- Name
- Keith
- Edit My Images
- No
What is it you guys are really missing in this new Z system? I ask because if I had the funds it's where I would probably head [the XQD thing is main turn off and price of decent native lenses] - happy as I am with my Fuji, I do always fancy giving FFML a go [shot FF Nikon for a few years dslr but felt it lacking, ML adds all of the things I wanted back then]
When I look to Sony, I kinda hate some things about that system, mainly their s***ty body style and menu system [I'm looking at the A7RII for example] but I do like the look of some of their less pricey lenses [85 1.8, 28 F2 etc... non GM stuff] and I do think I'd get over the crap ergo side. I would rather the Z6 body, but on the SOny native side they have the upper hand for now
When I look to Sony, I kinda hate some things about that system, mainly their s***ty body style and menu system [I'm looking at the A7RII for example] but I do like the look of some of their less pricey lenses [85 1.8, 28 F2 etc... non GM stuff] and I do think I'd get over the crap ergo side. I would rather the Z6 body, but on the SOny native side they have the upper hand for now
Last edited:
- Messages
- 23,613
- Name
- Toby
- Edit My Images
- No
Nikon’s financial woes are bigger than one camera. It’s a combination of all sorts such as a decreasing market, poor structuring etc etc. They’re not the first company to lose money and they won’t be the last, a company doesn’t always go out of business just because they’ve lost money for one or two financial years. When I first started my business it was 3 or 4 years before I got into the black, and I’m small fry with very few resources. Nikon have a big parent company to fall back onto, it’s more a case of how long that parent company will subsidise their camera section if they can’t restructure and then it around.
- Messages
- 16,746
- Name
- Keith
- Edit My Images
- No
I think for me a lot of it comes down to budget really, if I was unlimited I'd love to try the Z6 with all the native lenses and some juicier FX tele lenses to boot - But I have to budget, and have to look at best bang for [smaller] buck and right now, if I was to sell all my gear, the only sensible choice would be older Sony gear
- Messages
- 23,613
- Name
- Toby
- Edit My Images
- No
Sony are technically better cameras at the mo, if they had better ergonomics and colour science it’s where my money would have gone. Colour science is not a deal breaker as you can faff in post, but I do like how Nikon’s colours suit my preference SOOC.
Ergonomics are most certainly a deal breaker though. Also I’m not sure what it is but to me the Sony’s don’t feel as premium when I’m holding them. I mean they’re solid and everything, I just can’t put my finger on it (waits to get flamed by the Sony boys and girls
)
- Messages
- 7,597
- Name
- Riz
- Edit My Images
- No
Sony are technically better cameras at the mo, if they had better ergonomics and colour science it’s where my money would have gone. Colour science is not a deal breaker as you can faff in post, but I do like how Nikon’s colours suit my preference SOOC.
Ergonomics are most certainly a deal breaker though. Also I’m not sure what it is but to me the Sony’s don’t feel as premium when I’m holding them. I mean they’re solid and everything, I just can’t put my finger on it (waits to get flamed by the Sony boys and girls
I’m ok with the colour science (A9) but agree regarding the “feel” of the body and GUI.
The last best handling body for me was my old Nikon D7000.
However adding the Vertical Battery Grip has made it a mute point in some aspects.
If Nikon make a Z body closer to the Sony A9 spec with dual card slots and class leading AF incl Eye-AF, I could be tempted to move over to Nikon.
Also considering Fuji but think I’d like to stick with FF.
- Messages
- 8,501
- Name
- Trevor
- Edit My Images
- No
Ergonomics are most certainly a deal breaker though. Also I’m not sure what it is but to me the Sony’s don’t feel as premium when I’m holding them. I mean they’re solid and everything said:
I don’t think I’m missing anything, really. Bit of landscape, portrait and general stuff is what I’ve used for so far.
I think people just want the AF up to Sony level, even then I think it’s just AF-C/eye AF. I think the AF system maybe just needs a bit of practice with the modes also. I mean I’ve seen threads of people having issues with A7iii AF issues, low light and also A9 tracking. Zs could implement tracking mode better than it does. Canon has recently improved their Eye AF so I’m sure Nikon can. They put out the current implementation in 4-5 months, that’s if they wasn’t working on it prior to the Z release? And was a reaction to people complaining it not being included.
I didn’t like the A7iii after using the Z, main reasons were the EVF, blocky aliased GUI and has that old Android delayed stuttering feel. Body design, plastic port covers. I found it okay in the hands but didn’t try long term, just 5 mins. 900k LCD. However the latest Sony body design, 7Riv, 9ii seem good, not picked one up though, seems like they addressed most issues. They could do something with the left side to get rid of the wasted space
If I were to move anywhere, then it would be an A7iv when released, but then I don’t know what I’d do with lenses. All seems a bit of a mess with GM, G, Zeiss, and the Standard 1.8s. Only the 24-105/4 appeals, and the 85/1.8. 12-24/4 needs square filter system, in comparison to 14-30/4. 70-200/4 isn’t rated as good as F/EF Nikon/Canon.
Currently in the Nikon line up I’d have the 20(when released)/35/50/85 1.8, but then why not just opt for the 24-70/2.8. Currently Nikon’s system/lens roadmap/direction suits me. Canons glass is nice, but too expensive for non pro use. I like the look of the XT3, haven’t done any research into lenses though. I’m not looking to move just nice to keep up with everything.
Sorry turned into a bit of a ramble.
I think people just want the AF up to Sony level, even then I think it’s just AF-C/eye AF. I think the AF system maybe just needs a bit of practice with the modes also. I mean I’ve seen threads of people having issues with A7iii AF issues, low light and also A9 tracking. Zs could implement tracking mode better than it does. Canon has recently improved their Eye AF so I’m sure Nikon can. They put out the current implementation in 4-5 months, that’s if they wasn’t working on it prior to the Z release? And was a reaction to people complaining it not being included.
I didn’t like the A7iii after using the Z, main reasons were the EVF, blocky aliased GUI and has that old Android delayed stuttering feel. Body design, plastic port covers. I found it okay in the hands but didn’t try long term, just 5 mins. 900k LCD. However the latest Sony body design, 7Riv, 9ii seem good, not picked one up though, seems like they addressed most issues. They could do something with the left side to get rid of the wasted space
If I were to move anywhere, then it would be an A7iv when released, but then I don’t know what I’d do with lenses. All seems a bit of a mess with GM, G, Zeiss, and the Standard 1.8s. Only the 24-105/4 appeals, and the 85/1.8. 12-24/4 needs square filter system, in comparison to 14-30/4. 70-200/4 isn’t rated as good as F/EF Nikon/Canon.
Currently in the Nikon line up I’d have the 20(when released)/35/50/85 1.8, but then why not just opt for the 24-70/2.8. Currently Nikon’s system/lens roadmap/direction suits me. Canons glass is nice, but too expensive for non pro use. I like the look of the XT3, haven’t done any research into lenses though. I’m not looking to move just nice to keep up with everything.
Sorry turned into a bit of a ramble.
- Messages
- 23,613
- Name
- Toby
- Edit My Images
- No
I don’t necessarily want AF to be up to Sony standard (although it would be nice) but on par with the D750 in low light AF-C would be nice, and tbh expected by me.
- Messages
- 16,746
- Name
- Keith
- Edit My Images
- No
What do you actually shoot professionally? I really don't get why people moan so much about only one card slot or cameras not having eye AF to depend on - how did you ever manage 4-5 years ago? is modern day eye-AF and general blisteringly fast AF a crutch? are you afraid you'll miss shots between blinks? I would say I prefer having 2 slots too but, I have my X-H1 now about 8 months and the second card has yet to leave the camera. Same when I owned the D800 - had a CF card as back up and it stayed in the camera for 5 years ... actually just left it in there when I sold it.
- Messages
- 7,597
- Name
- Riz
- Edit My Images
- No
I don't shoot professionally and I don't think that's what I was trying to say. When you get used to shooting with a body which has features like dual card slots, Eye-AF, silent shutter, blackout free EVF etc you become spoilt. Granted anybody can shoot great photos without these features but those who like these kind of features and functions will naturally wan't them if they decided to change systems / bodies etc.
4-5 years ago is the past and ultimately technology moves forwards, some decided to stick with their older bodies without these features yet others will buy the latest and greatest.
We have to remember, that all the current modern day mirrorless camera's are great in their own unique way...... choice is great.
- Messages
- 16,746
- Name
- Keith
- Edit My Images
- No
I don't shoot professionally and I don't think that's what I was trying to say. When you get used to shooting with a body which has features like dual card slots, Eye-AF, silent shutter, blackout free EVF etc you become spoilt. Granted anybody can shoot great photos without these features but those who like these kind of features and functions will naturally wan't them if they decided to change systems / bodies etc.
4-5 years ago is the past and ultimately technology moves forwards, some decided to stick with their older bodies without these features yet others will buy the latest and greatest.
We have to remember, that all the current modern day mirrorless camera's are great in their own unique way...... choice is great.
Yeah as I thought, crutches. I mean, I'm not immune, there's a few bodies I'd love to try but having no IBIS is a turn off [EOS R for example]. Sometimes I feel I want to bitch-slap myself, I never relied on IBIS in the past so why is it a top priority for me now?? spoiled ... that's why. I think we're all getting a bit snow-flake about camera features today. There is zero reason for anyone to honestly moan about any camera body [be it M43, APSC or FF] produced in the past 4 years .... bar their internet cronies telling them this or that isn't good enough. SPOILED. We could manage perfectly fine using dslr with single card slot and crap AF a few years back. Tell me one modern ML camera that will see you miss significant shots? I would say that's down to user error if you can't keep up
Last edited:
- Messages
- 7,597
- Name
- Riz
- Edit My Images
- No
I actually 100% agree with you, I can honestly say I don't need my Sony gear and could easily do with a Nikon / Fuji setup ......
- Messages
- 16,746
- Name
- Keith
- Edit My Images
- No
I actually 100% agree with you, I can honestly say I don't need my Sony gear and could easily do with a Nikon / Fuji setup ......
I agree, I'll pm you my address, I'll take care of that SOny gear for ya
I've actually been eyeing some older Sony gear [ A7RII] recently, there's a couple going very reasonably priced with extras locally .... that would be a downgrade in some ways as it's only got one slot, no touch screen, no joystick and the shutter on it sounds like a printer from the 70's
but I do fancy the high res FF goodness and there's a few Sony lenses I'm itching to try [the 85 1.8 for one] But then I take my X-H1 out for a spin and it keeps impressing me ... wondering why would I need anything more? I also fancy the Z6, I think if I could afford to grab a couple native lenses for it I'd be there already .... but again, I don't see a significant bump in quality in general. I just want ... not need
Last edited:
- Messages
- 2,470
- Name
- Pete
- Edit My Images
- Yes
OK so for me, the Z is way ahead of the Sony cameras in feel, menus ( even Sony shooters can't find things in the menus lol ), touch screen is usable, weather sealing, and the general usage of the camera.
Where the Sony is ahead, just AF. The Z cameras have a long way to go still in AF-C reliability. People say it's not fast enough, that's not true in my experience, it's the reliability of hitting focus. Eye-AF I find very unreliable, but I live with that by turning it completely off. But even on single point focus, on AF-C, I still find it less than reliable. With my D750 I didn't think about focus, just put the focus point where I wanted it, hit the AF-On button, and it was in focus, 99.999% of the time. Even on eyes shot through glasses. With the Z6, I'm likely at 65-75% of the time the focus is right.
The V2.00 fw turned the AF from completely useless, to "workable", V2.01 improved low light AF even though they didn't mention it anywhere. I'm hoping v3.00 when they release the CFExpress and RAW video will improve the AF again since it seemed the guy from Atmos let slip AF improvements.
If I had to be honest, the only other thing I would love on the Z line would be some 1.2 primes like the canon ones. The 1.8s lenses are soo damn nice, I salivate at how good the Nikon 1.2s primes would be.
- Messages
- 16,746
- Name
- Keith
- Edit My Images
- No
I doubt 1.2 primes will ever interest me personally, 1. because I couldn't afford them, but 2. I'm really not a big fan of blurring most of an image out. I like my 'bokeh' much as the next man but too much of anything is bad I feel. And I guess - 3. I'm never shooting in situations where I'd need that much light, I think any of these cameras makes it so you don't have to worry about bumping the ISO. That is something that I find is important, I've used cameras in the past that were just terrible beyond ISO 400, now it's no sweat to go 3200 or more even on APSC
Stephen L
I asked a Stupid Question Once...
- Messages
- 6,621
- Name
- Stephen
- Edit My Images
- No
Amazon Black Friday shows the Z6 with 24-70 but no FTZ at £1745, so Grays is a great deal.
- Messages
- 2,470
- Name
- Pete
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I have to say that the days of buying the faster lenses so you could get acceptable results at smaller apertures are long gone. I tend to shoot my primes at f2 a fair bit but never wide open at 1.8. But the separation you can get at longer distances still I find appealing at times. The one surprise for me has been how the Z6 has turned me into a prime shooter. I even "upgraded" to the 2.8s 24-70 as I pretty much shot on the f mount equiv for so many years. But even now I tend to take the 35, 50, 85 everywhere and leave the 24-70 behind.
- Messages
- 23,613
- Name
- Toby
- Edit My Images
- No
AF-C is disappointing (relatively speaking) I just wonder whether firmware alone can bring it up to ‘standard’?
F1.2’s would be nice in theory but I bet when we see the price, size and weight we’ll not be so keen
- Messages
- 8,063
- Name
- Andrew
- Edit My Images
- No
Interesting to hear your finding it better than the D750 what mode and setting your using please.. Have you sample of images you took doing it/
- Messages
- 23,613
- Name
- Toby
- Edit My Images
- No
Low light indoor trying to take photos of a puppy. Lots of hunting and also missed (mainly back) focus.
- Messages
- 8,063
- Name
- Andrew
- Edit My Images
- No
Which lens was you using mate might try mine tonight with my 2 dogs..
- Messages
- 2,470
- Name
- Pete
- Edit My Images
- Yes
AF-C is disappointing (relatively speaking) I just wonder whether firmware alone can bring it up to ‘standard’?
F1.2’s would be nice in theory but I bet when we see the price, size and weight we’ll not be so keen
I hope so on the FW update. Canon did so I'm hoping the Nikon processing HW is up to it and it's just algorithm changes which can be done. Time will tell I guess.
You're right on the price and weight of the 1.2's. The 50 1.2s mockup photos do indeed look big and heavy
- Messages
- 2,470
- Name
- Pete
- Edit My Images
- Yes
This seems to be where the main religious wars start, on facebook at least, here it's much more friendly
. Some people are having trouble with AF-C, others seem to not have an issue, so mostly on the groups the ones having the trouble are told they're useless and holding the camera upside down or something. For me I can't, as yet, be able to say what situations cause problems, but I can certainly say my hit rate is lower with the Z6 than it was on the D750. One definite area that seems to confuse the Z6 is people wearing glasses. I think this is due to the AF area point being too large possibly, but AF-S doesn't have the same issue.
- Messages
- 23,613
- Name
- Toby
- Edit My Images
- No
50mm using single point, smallest size but not pin point one as that’s contrast detect only.
One of the reasons for different results maybe due to different options of single point AF box size. I guess if you use the large one you’re going to get faster AF but not as accurate in terms of placement.This seems to be where the main religious wars start, on facebook at least, here it's much more friendly
For me I can't, as yet, be able to say what situations cause problems, but I can certainly say my hit rate is lower with the Z6 than it was on the D750. One definite area that seems to confuse the Z6 is people wearing glasses. I think this is due to the AF area point being too large possibly, but AF-S doesn't have the same issue.
- Messages
- 222
- Edit My Images
- Yes
There's a series of photos of my dog running towards me here and a couple of other tracking shots: https://www.flickr.com/photos/luftwalk/albums/72157706365176231
Another series of my dog (full sized JPGs) here: www.bobr.si/files/Ajka1.zip
I'm usually using AF-C, Dynamic area (Wide-S sometimes) and H* mode (12 FPS). It helps, especially in low-light (@snerkler ) if you turn setting D8 to off.
- Messages
- 23,613
- Name
- Toby
- Edit My Images
- No
Yeah I remember that series, very impressive but it’s in good light. I don’t use hi extended as I like to see real time view. Also the problem with dynamic as it doesn’t stay on the eyes.
What’s D8, I’m away from the camera at the mo?
Last edited: