Nikon Z7 vs D850

ShawWellPete

ShawWellPete

Messages
3,699
Name
Pete
Edit My Images
Yes
Hey guys,

I keep meaning to come back to this group, I used it a lot when I got into photography but my positing in recent years has been very sporadic. I am a keen amateur photographer who shoots mostly portraits but a bit of nature and landscape stuff too.

I am thinking about upgrading my D800 which i have had since pretty much it was released and I'm considering a Z7 or a D850.

I have just watched this comparison video and one of things that pushes me away from the Z7 is the lack of 3D tracking, something I use all the time on my D800.

Can anybody who has the Z7 comment on how they find the focusing please? If you come from a D800/D810/D750 Do you miss the 3D tracking?

I've done a quick list of pros for each with how important this is to me out of 10, included it if anybody is interested, happy to hear if there are things I have missed.

D850 Pros
2 memory card slots - 8
Ability to have a grip and extra battery - 7
3D tracking - 9


Z7 Pros
Smaller - 6 (would be more but I also have a Fuji X-Pro 2 setup when I want smaller)
In Body VR - 8 (miss this from my Minolta/Sony days!)
video quality - 6
Silent shooting - 5
Autofocus points - edge to edge - 8


Thanks, in advance, for your comments
 
I can’t give a direct comparison, but I shoot with a D810. Ive just got a Z6 and it is a lot better than I was expecting, even with the kit lens 24-70 f4.

I was actually blown away with the IQ the first time I used it outside. Tracking is good and fast and the face detect is pretty accurate (not tested much yet). Video is new for me, but also looks to be strong.

Silent shooting is amazing (reason I bought it) and FPS is pretty staggering.

If you need a Z7 over a Z6 then go for it, but the Z6 was more than enough for me.
So far so good.

I bought it to upgrade the D610 as a backup to my D810, but I’m feeling that once I’ve got to grips with it properly, the D810 May be relegated to backup.
 
I haven’t used a Z7 but the D850 is superb, the image quality is a noticeable step up from a D810, the files just look cleaner and the colours are beautiful. I wonder if it would be worth the cost of upgrading though, the D800 is still very capable. As mirrorless seems to be the way everyone is going it may be worth holding on until the second generation models, if there are things putting you off the Z7
 
nandbytes said:
Sounds like you want an A7RIII, best of both worlds ;)
Click to expand...

I have too many Nikon lenses and flashes!

gremlin16 said:
I can’t give a direct comparison, but I shoot with a D810. Ive just got a Z6 and it is a lot better than I was expecting, even with the kit lens 24-70 f4.

I was actually blown away with the IQ the first time I used it outside. Tracking is good and fast and the face detect is pretty accurate (not tested much yet). Video is new for me, but also looks to be strong.
Click to expand...

Interesting feedback thanks, so there is tracking, just not 3D

SFTPhotography said:
D850 is what I would chose.
Click to expand...

Thank you

Scirocco_09 said:
I haven’t used a Z7 but the D850 is superb, the image quality is a noticeable step up from a D810, the files just look cleaner and the colours are beautiful. I wonder if it would be worth the cost of upgrading though, the D800 is still very capable. As mirrorless seems to be the way everyone is going it may be worth holding on until the second generation models, if there are things putting you off the Z7
Click to expand...

That is what my sensible head is saying, and has been saying for years, but I am suddenly in the mood for an upgrade! There are more second hand D850's around so the upgrade cost is probably less.

I started looking with the announcement of the new Z 24-70 2.8, I may be temped to upgrade my 24-70 2.8ED to the VR one or the Z mount one
 
Reading this with interest. I use a D800 and keep contemplating an upgrade. I don' need one at all (who does?) but I do get frustrated with live view for astro on the D800. I mainly shoot landscape stuff and in all honesty, any modern camera at all can do that very well so I'm more interested in performance for other stuff I do, mainly family and photos of the kids (serious AF challenge!) and a bit of motorsport. The D800 isn't amazing at those but it's okay and I honestly find it hard to stomach the cost of even a D810 let alone a D850. I know respectively they'd a be a bit better and much better but it does feel like we have well and truly entered the mirrorless era now and I'm struggling with the idea of sinking a load of money into another DSLR, no matter how good they are.

So then I looked at the mirrorless options and have had a play around with them a little. I really like the Z7 but the lack of lenses at present stops me a bit. I know there's the adaptor but I just don't really want to get into that. It would be a slight frustration that I don't currently have to deal with. And although I love the feel of it and the EVF I can't really overlook the fact that Sony have it well and truly beaten in terms of tech, especially the AF system. So I took a really good look at the A7Riii but I just don't like holding or using it. I don't feel at home with it at all. Should maybe try one for longer but for now my credit card has survived. I sort of like the Canon system but I'd like IBIS if I went mirrorless but as a ssytem, with the lenses coming, it looks promising. But then I speculate that the sensor in my 7 year old D800 might be on a par with that of the EOS R, not sure. Right now I want Nikon to make me a camera, Sony to fill it with their tech and Canon to make the lenses. Not much to ask!

Anyway, my conclusion is that at the moment, I think I'm going to sit tight. I feel like any option would require me to spend a great deal of money on something that is going to have some sort of frustrating aspect about it so I'm keeping my powder dry for now but must admit I love the way things are developing. Feels like the next time I do upgrade is going to be an exciting one.

Sorry, probably no help whatsoever but it felt therapeutic!
 
gad-westy said:
Reading this with interest. I use a D800 and keep contemplating an upgrade. I don' need one at all (who does?) but I do get frustrated with live view for astro on the D800. I mainly shoot landscape stuff and in all honesty, any modern camera at all can do that very well so I'm more interested in performance for other stuff I do, mainly family and photos of the kids (serious AF challenge!) and a bit of motorsport. The D800 isn't amazing at those but it's okay and I honestly find it hard to stomach the cost of even a D810 let alone a D850. I know respectively they'd a be a bit better and much better but it does feel like we have well and truly entered the mirrorless era now and I'm struggling with the idea of sinking a load of money into another DSLR, no matter how good they are.

So then I looked at the mirrorless options and have had a play around with them a little. I really like the Z7 but the lack of lenses at present stops me a bit. I know there's the adaptor but I just don't really want to get into that. It would be a slight frustration that I don't currently have to deal with. And although I love the feel of it and the EVF I can't really overlook the fact that Sony have it well and truly beaten in terms of tech, especially the AF system. So I took a really good look at the A7Riii but I just don't like holding or using it. I don't feel at home with it at all. Should maybe try one for longer but for now my credit card has survived. I sort of like the Canon system but I'd like IBIS if I went mirrorless but as a ssytem, with the lenses coming, it looks promising. But then I speculate that the sensor in my 7 year old D800 might be on a par with that of the EOS R, not sure. Right now I want Nikon to make me a camera, Sony to fill it with their tech and Canon to make the lenses. Not much to ask!

Anyway, my conclusion is that at the moment, I think I'm going to sit tight. I feel like any option would require me to spend a great deal of money on something that is going to have some sort of frustrating aspect about it so I'm keeping my powder dry for now but must admit I love the way things are developing. Feels like the next time I do upgrade is going to be an exciting one.

Sorry, probably no help whatsoever but it felt therapeutic!
Click to expand...
Out of interest which canon EOS R lenses would you want/buy?
 
ShawWellPete said:
I have too many Nikon lenses and flashes!
Click to expand...

And do you plan to adapt them forever on Nikon Z?
If not it doesn't matter if you buy the Z or E or L or R mount tbh since they are all different mounts. In fact you'll end up making more loss down the line than you'd right now (I've learned that the hard way)
 
nandbytes said:
And do you plan to adapt them forever on Nikon Z?
If not it doesn't matter if you buy the Z or E or L or R mount tbh since they are all different mounts. In fact you'll end up making more loss down the line than you'd right now (I've learned that the hard way)
Click to expand...

Are there adapters for all those mounts that will mean I will be able to use all my lenses using autofocus? If so, maybe I should widen my scope, I really don’t want to sell everything I have, to buy a new body.
 
I've had the D750, now D850 and have tried the Z7. AF on the Z7 was great, however still not quite as snappy as the D850 and noticeably so if using lenses with the adapter on the Z7. I'm sure it's still fast enough for most things though.

I've never actually been a fan of 3D tracking on either the D750 or D850 and tend to just use C-AF. One of my issues with 3D tracking is that, even though on the D850 it's supposed to have facial recognition I find it drifts onto the torso more often than not unless the face is really large in the frame. I can track faces better on runners etc using single point C-AF (y)
 
snerkler said:
I've had the D750, now D850 and have tried the Z7. AF on the Z7 was great, however still not quite as snappy as the D850 and noticeably so if using lenses with the adapter on the Z7. I'm sure it's still fast enough for most things though.

I've never actually been a fan of 3D tracking on either the D750 or D850 and tend to just use C-AF. One of my issues with 3D tracking is that, even though on the D850 it's supposed to have facial recognition I find it drifts onto the torso more often than not unless the face is really large in the frame. I can track faces better on runners etc using single point C-AF (y)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. I have pretty much used 3D tracking constantly on the D800, it's set to only focus with the AF-On button and I find it works really well on still or moving subjects.

I must admit I am wavering towards the D850, I am much more likely to pick that up second hand and therefore not lose too much if I change my mind. I do like the sound of the edge to edge focus points and in body VR of the Z7 though!
 
Last edited:
Well I went for the Z6. Thought long and hard about D-SLR or not. Previously had Fuji and Nikon. I am convinced mirrorless is here to stay. Nearly bought the Df just for that wonderful sensor.
Happy very happy with my decision.
No micro adjustments is a bonus.
Still have APSC in shape of D500 for occasional wildlife. Not used it for 8 months.
Got the Siggy pre art 85. Works perfectly with the adapter as does the 35 art and Nikkor 70-200 vr2
Also have 24-70, 35 and 50 Z mount. All great lenses.
 
trevorbray said:
Well I went for the Z6. Thought long and hard about D-SLR or not. Previously had Fuji and Nikon. I am convinced mirrorless is here to stay. Nearly bought the Df just for that wonderful sensor.
Happy very happy with my decision.
No micro adjustments is a bonus.
Still have APSC in shape of D500 for occasional wildlife. Not used it for 8 months.
Got the Siggy pre art 85. Works perfectly with the adapter as does the 35 art and Nikkor 70-200 vr2
Also have 24-70, 35 and 50 Z mount. All great lenses.
Click to expand...
Modern mirrorless cameras with phase detection can actually still need micro adjustments and that's why you find that option in the menus. Depending on the camera and/or shooting mode they can just use phase detect and therefore are as prone to focus errors as DSLRs.
 
snerkler said:
Modern mirrorless cameras with phase detection can actually still need micro adjustments and that's why you find that option in the menus. Depending on the camera and/or shooting mode they can just use phase detect and therefore are as prone to focus errors as DSLRs.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. I thought on sensor focusing did away with it.
 
nandbytes said:
Out of interest which canon EOS R lenses would you want/buy?
Click to expand...

I love the 28-70! 35mm looks good too. But actually it's more to do with their forthcoming lenses and confidence in them producing a great system. That new 70-200 looks great too.
 
trevorbray said:
I stand corrected. I thought on sensor focusing did away with it.
Click to expand...
So did I, but alas not according to recent reports I've been reading. I always though it was a mismatch between the AF module sensor and the actual sensor but phase detect is complicated algorithms that calculate distance and movements etc etc to determine where AF should be and it is this that can cause inaccuracies as it's not quite as simple as aligning two images onto a single plane. Unfortunately manufacturers don't appear to be very forthcoming as to when the cameras use contrast detect, when it's. hybrid or when it's purely phase detect. I would hope that when you AF fine tune on mirrorless it only affects the phase detect part and not contrast detect, as contrast detect should be pretty much 100% accurate anyway.
 
gad-westy said:
I love the 28-70! 35mm looks good too. But actually it's more to do with their forthcoming lenses and confidence in them producing a great system. That new 70-200 looks great too.
Click to expand...

well if you are willing to pay for the 28-70 it certainly awesome ;)

A system is camera body+lenses. Lenses canon certainly has done very well on and always has done. As you said it'd be lovely to have someone that can make bodies like nikon, use sony sensor with their AF system and canon lenses.
 
Last edited:
trevorbray said:
I stand corrected. I thought on sensor focusing did away with it.
Click to expand...

It does with native lenses. You should never need to micro adjust a native lens. Sorry @snerkler but you are wrong. With Sony anyway the only reason that the micro adjust function is available in the menu is so that you can adjust for A- Mount lenses when using the LA-EA adaptors with the translucent mirror.

Would be shocked if it was not exactly the same with other brands including Nikon.
 
nandbytes said:
well if you are will to pay for the 28-70 it certainly awesome ;)

A system is camera body+lenses. Lenses canon certainly has done very well on and always has done. As you said it'd be lovely to have someone that can make bodies like nikon, buy sony sensor with their AF system and have canon lenses.
Click to expand...

Well the good news is that one way or another all of the ‘teething’ problems with mirrorless seem to have been solved. It’s just that nobody yet has solved them all within one system. Fuji are close but they seem to doggedly refuse to offer a better battery and I’m not a huge lover of x-trans but they’re close. I thought Panasonic were pretty much there but the AF seems a bit suspect. But one way or another the momentum is there now and things should fall into place nicely. The really frustrating ones are Sony as I feel like they’ve solved all the hard stuff. They’ve gone through the pain. All they really need to do is offer a plus size body and the odd interface/ergonomic tweak and they’re basically there. Seems a doddle compared to what the other big players face ahead.

Anyway I’m drifting off topic.
 
f/2.8 said:
It does with native lenses. You should never need to micro adjust a native lens. Sorry @snerkler but you are wrong. With Sony anyway the only reason that the micro adjust function is available in the menu is so that you can adjust for A- Mount lenses when using the LA-EA adaptors with the translucent mirror.

Would be shocked if it was not exactly the same with other brands including Nikon.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, I'm always happy to be proven wrong (y). The info I read was regarding Olympus so assumed that it was the same for all the mirrorless with on sensor PDAF. I assume Sony must use at least a hybrid at all times it's not CDAF then (y)
 
gad-westy said:
Well the good news is that one way or another all of the ‘teething’ problems with mirrorless seem to have been solved. It’s just that nobody yet has solved them all within one system. Fuji are close but they seem to doggedly refuse to offer a better battery and I’m not a huge lover of x-trans but they’re close. I thought Panasonic were pretty much there but the AF seems a bit suspect. But one way or another the momentum is there now and things should fall into place nicely. The really frustrating ones are Sony as I feel like they’ve solved all the hard stuff. They’ve gone through the pain. All they really need to do is offer a plus size body and the odd interface/ergonomic tweak and they’re basically there. Seems a doddle compared to what the other big players face ahead.

Anyway I’m drifting off topic.
Click to expand...

well Sony works for many people. I think a lot of people who do actually use sony or have used sony for a while will probably not want a huge body like S1R. I for one would like the body the size of original A7 (though I am in minority). I think A9 was their plus sized body and you can always add a grip.
 
nandbytes said:
well Sony works for many people. I think a lot of people who do actually use sony or have used sony for a while will probably not want a huge body like S1R. I for one would like the body the size of original A7 (though I am in minority). I think A9 was their plus sized body and you can always add a grip.
Click to expand...

I had it in my head that the A9 was exactly the same size as the A7's. I haven't held one so didn't realise they'd made it bigger. I did think it was bit odd that they hadn't. Need to try one clearly.

With the A7's, a grip might help a fraction but i don't generally like them very much and one of the issues I didn't like was that I found one of the 2.8 zooms (maybe 24-70, can't remember) really encroached on the grip area itself.
 
gad-westy said:
I had it in my head that the A9 was exactly the same size as the A7's. I haven't held one so didn't realise they'd made it bigger. I did think it was bit odd that they hadn't. Need to try one clearly.

With the A7's, a grip might help a fraction but i don't generally like them very much and one of the issues I didn't like was that I found one of the 2.8 zooms (maybe 24-70, can't remember) really encroached on the grip area itself.
Click to expand...

I have heard this a few times, can't say I have faced the issue but worth fixing and should be easy for Sony to fix.
Nikon Z is definitely more comfortable to hold and use. I also liked the touch screen, nice to use.
 
ShawWellPete said:
Thanks for the feedback. I have pretty much used 3D tracking constantly on the D800, it's set to only focus with the AF-On button and I find it works really well on still or moving subjects.

I must admit I am wavering towards the D850, I am much more likely to pick that up second hand and therefore not lose too much if I change my mind. I do like the sound of the edge to edge focus points and in body VR of the Z7 though!
Click to expand...

Have you reached a decision yet?
 
gad-westy said:
I had it in my head that the A9 was exactly the same size as the A7's. I haven't held one so didn't realise they'd made it bigger. I did think it was bit odd that they hadn't. Need to try one clearly.

With the A7's, a grip might help a fraction but i don't generally like them very much and one of the issues I didn't like was that I found one of the 2.8 zooms (maybe 24-70, can't remember) really encroached on the grip area itself.
Click to expand...

There are loads of options for grip extensions, if you don't like an actual battery grip.

I have tried the A7III with a the oem grip, a third party grip and a grip extension. I also used the camera a lot without anything and the handling became something that I got used too quickly. I now don't use a grip at all, I prefer it without even after using Nikon DSLR's for the well over 15 years always with a battery grip.
 
I waited for the mirrorless release before upgrading. In the end, the FPS/AF of the mirrorless wasn't up to snuff so I went w/ the D850 instead.
FWIW, the D850 can do completely silent photography (electronic shutter) at 7fps, but focus/metering is locked with the first frame; not great but better than nothing... I find it works well enough for short bursts/single shots of relatively stationary subjects.
Most of what I photograph is moving significantly, so the AF/FPS was way more important to me than any kind of image stabilization...
 
I've a D810 and the Z7 since it was released. I can hand on heart say that the D810 has never been out of my bag since I got the Z. I absolutely love the size and I find the performance is dead on for what I do - certainly the focusing is every bit as fast as the D810. That said I know the D850 is a different beast. The weight for me is a huge plus, the video performance is brilliant, proper silent shooting is great, XQD cards while expensive are very fast and it's works perfectly with all the lenses that I've tried including the Nikkor 70-200 VR ll f/2.8, 105 f/2.8 Micro, Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art and the Sigma 14mm f/1.8. I had the Sigma 24-105 f/4 which worked but I ordered the kit with he 24-70 f/4 so quickly moved the Sigma 24-105 on. Absolutely no regrets here. That said I can't wait for eye detect AF to be released to see how that works.
 
Stevies said:
I've a D810 and the Z7 since it was released. I can hand on heart say that the D810 has never been out of my bag since I got the Z. I absolutely love the size and I find the performance is dead on for what I do - certainly the focusing is every bit as fast as the D810. That said I know the D850 is a different beast. The weight for me is a huge plus, the video performance is brilliant, proper silent shooting is great, XQD cards while expensive are very fast and it's works perfectly with all the lenses that I've tried including the Nikkor 70-200 VR ll f/2.8, 105 f/2.8 Micro, Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art and the Sigma 14mm f/1.8. I had the Sigma 24-105 f/4 which worked but I ordered the kit with he 24-70 f/4 so quickly moved the Sigma 24-105 on. Absolutely no regrets here. That said I can't wait for eye detect AF to be released to see how that works.
Click to expand...


just when I thought I'd made up my mind :thinking:
 
I’ve just popped into Greys of Westminster so I could look at and handle both cameras. I have used the 3D tracking with AF-ON only focus for so long I think I’m going to struggle to get used to the Z7.

This brings me to a different question for D850 owners, upgrading my D800 and grip is going to cost around £2000. I know it’s a difficult question but how much better is the D850 to the D800?
 
Depends on your use/needs...
Flippy screen, silent shooting w/ locked focus/exposure, better (but different) AF, no AA filter, and a bit more resolution (that is hard to actually benefit from). For most photography/uses I don't think there's actually that much to it... probably the biggest difference is the lack of an AA filter (+/-).
 
sk66 said:
Depends on your use/needs...
Flippy screen, silent shooting w/ locked focus/exposure, better (but different) AF, no AA filter, and a bit more resolution (that is hard to actually benefit from). For most photography/uses I don't think there's actually that much to it... probably the biggest difference is the lack of an AA filter (+/-).
Click to expand...

Thanks Steven, I'd forgotten about the lack of AA filter, I think the sensible thing is to look out for a second hand D850 and grip.
 
46mp FX camera with inbuilt 20mp DX camera ... 9fps with the use of the battery grip, larger battery and bl-5 battery door replacement.
 
I upgraded from D800 to D850 and there's a significance difference in several areas...90% positive... IQ is better, noise handling at "normal" exposures is better, focusing is better, Live View is now usable in dark conditions, it's much easier to capture handheld/sharp images (reduction in mirror slap I guess)... the 10% negative... I find it doesn't seem to handle underexposed, long exposure shots as well (2 minutes +) and can produce pretty bad hot pixels, whilst the D800 certainly could do this too it's more evident on the D850 to me.

Having said the above, if you really don't "need" to upgrade I'd personally wait for the next iterations of the Z's and then decide. As good as the Z's seem to be as a first effort I'm never keen on adopting the first iteration of a brand new model early on, I waited sometime to see how the D800 was. If I had to make the decision now then I'd still get the D850, it's a mature system, great choice of lenses without adapters needed..... I do genuinely find the D850 a more pleasant camera to use than the D800 and I'm still impressed by the IQ of the images it produces, I do genuinely think from D800 to D850 the step is a very significant one.

Simon
 
Last edited:
simonkit said:
I upgraded from D800 to D850 and there's a significance difference in several areas...90% positive... IQ is better, noise handling at "normal" exposures is better, focusing is better, Live View is now usable in dark conditions, it's much easier to capture handheld/sharp images (reduction in mirror slap I guess)... the 10% negative... I find it doesn't seem to handle underexposed, long exposure shots as well (2 minutes +) and can produce pretty bad hot pixels, whilst the D800 certainly could do this too it's more evident on the D850 to me.

Having said the above, if you really don't "need" to upgrade I'd personally wait for the next iterations of the Z's and then decide. As good as the Z's seem to be as a first effort I'm never keen on adopting the first iteration of a brand new model early on, I waited sometime to see how the D800 was. If I had to make the decision now then I'd still get the D850, it's a mature system, great choice of lenses without adapters needed..... I do genuinely find the D850 a more pleasant camera to use than the D800 and I'm still impressed by the IQ of the images it produces, I do genuinely think from D800 to D850 the step is a very significant one.

Simon
Click to expand...


Thanks for your advice Simon, much appreciated
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top