OC/OL/OF/3M Project

Strappy

Strappy

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Dean
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With the background explained fully in this thread, I'm starting the year with a project to use only one camera, one lens, one film for, well, it's supposed to be one year. I'm not that confident that I can stick to the full year so for now I'm limiting it to the first 3 months and will see how it goes. This thread is for selected results and commentary, I'll be uploading more pictures to flickr, link in my signature.

One camera - my Canon P rangefinder. Made sometime between 1958 and 1961, when things were solid and built to last, I bought it as an alternative to a Leica in order to use lenses with an M39 thread mount. It's a thing of beauty; smooth, simple and quiet. It doesn't have a meter, a conscious choice to use a really basic camera and force myself to either learn to meter properly and to how to adjust for changing light.

One lens - Canon 50mm f/1.4. Came with the camera and it's a lovely piece of glass and the (lack of?) coating means that it flares wonderfully in sunshine and I really like how it renders the areas which are out of focus. I also have a 35mm lens but chose the 50mm partly because it gives a more natural perspective and forces me to change position rather than relying on the lens to do the work plus at some point I'd like to do a model shoot as part of this project and it's a better length for that than the 35mm. The extra stop provides a bit more versatility too.

One film - Kodak Tri-X. Chosen mainly because I really like it. It's a classic for good reason, plus I have a few rolls in the fridge and I develop my own B&W.

For metering this first roll, I took incident readings using a Weston Master V with invercone, set f/5.6 on the lens and the appropriate shutter speed (1/125 from memory) and adjusted as required. The camera and lens both use full stops and the film has enough latitude to overcome any half-stop failings.

Now for the first roll. I shot these last weekend when t'missus and I went on a Duck tour of Windsor (amphibious bus that drives about town and then has a short trip up the river). It was overcast and misty so not the best light and these pictures aren't anything special, I was a bit snap-happy, though they do have a special place for me as the first roll of this project.

The film was stand developed (i.e. no inversions) for 1 hour in 1:100 Rodinal and it's resulted in banding on the negatives. I've included a sample below. I think there's a coating on the film as I had the same result with a roll of Tri-X shot in another camera last year and the stand process works fine using the same tank, reels, etc. on other B&W films. Next film I'll try a dilution of 1:50 or 1:25. Due to the banding (and the weak subjects) I haven't cleaned as much of the dust from these as I usually would.

All pictures were scanned on a CanoScan 9000F, tweaked in Lightroom 5 and a couple have been cropped. This project is intended to improve my photography and for me that means the full lifecycle from loading the film through to processing the results. Might not be the purist approach and I'm not going to print the crap ones for the sake of printing something but it's how I want to work and it's the process I want to improve at.

That's the background, now some pictures. Comment and critique are welcome, more on flickr :)


OCOLOFR1-3 by Dean Varney, on Flickr


OCOLOFR1-8 by Dean Varney, on Flickr


OCOLOFR1-21 by Dean Varney, on Flickr


OCOLOFR1-36 by Dean Varney, on Flickr

Finally, one where the banding is obvious...


OCOLOFR1-25 by Dean Varney, on Flickr
 
I like one and two more the first gives a good feel for a quite typical winter day and the second I'm not sure why but I like it.
 
Thanks, both. :)

steveo_mcg said:
I like one and two more the first gives a good feel for a quite typical winter day and the second I'm not sure why but I like it.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean about the second, it's a window I've walked past many times on the way into town. The attachment is the shop door. :D
 
Dean, if you're having some banding issues, you could try using a pre-soak to get the anti-halation coating off the film before developing. Another way could be to agitate for 30 seconds at the 30 minute mark to move any depleted developer around a bit.

It's an interesting challenge you're embarking on, I wish you well with it! If the photos from the first roll are anything to go by you'll produce some great images!
 
Thanks, Rob. I'm sure you've mentioned that anti-halation layer before and I'd forgotten all about it. I'll give that a go. :)

I think one of my bad habits is taking too many snapshots so part of this challenge will be finding themes or new subjects rather than firing off roll after roll and being disappointed with the majority of the reseults. That might also give me an alternative variety to what I'm used to from picking up a different camera each time I go out plus I'll have another measure to evaluate against than just "ooh, I like that". Really looking forward to where this will go.
 
Excellent start, Dean. I particularly like number 3, which no-one else has mentioned yet. I'm still vaguely gearing up towards one of these, but I may be making a mistake in aiming for a Leica-like, but not really having SWMBO-approval for it! I could say I've started now and stick with one of my MXs, since I've not shot any colour this year. There's XP2 in it just now, would probably swap to Tri-X for the next film, and also try to process my own now I have a Rondinax tank, and Steve T has promised me some starter stuff.

Part of the thing for me is to get back to seeing in black and white, which I managed just fine at first, before being seduced by colour, after which I seemed to lose the knack. I would quite like to do some quick turnround work, take and process a film in a day, so I can remember better what I saw versus how it came out.

Anyway, this is your thread, great start, do keep it up!
 
Thanks, Chris.

FWIW, I don't think it's particularly important to use a Leica-like, I'm doing so mainly because I already have one though if I didn't enjoy using it so much I'd have picked something else. I don't think I've ever developed the ability to see in B&W, that's one of the things I need to learn. There's always more to learn. :)

Anyway, second post with a picture and I've broken the cardinal rules already as it's a colour digital photo taken on my phone but I trust that the subject provides reasonable grounds for leniency ;)


Canon P & Flash by Dean Varney, on Flickr

Poor choice of background (I grabbed a folder for the sake of having something there) but hopefully it can be seen that I've connected a remote trigger to the flash sync socket and I'm happy to report that it works, firing the flash on cue. Initial teething troubles with the flash going off randomly as I moved the trigger but not when I fired the shutter or the test button, caused by the connection on the base of the trigger earthing on the camera body as I had it mounted in the cold shoe. Strip of sparky's tape sorted that out and it's all systems go.

I'm going to run through a couple of films to see what the results are like. I think getting good results with the flash will involve a fair amount of trial and error but I'll keep lots of notes. I could take some digital shots, transfer the settings to the P and bracket around them but then I wouldn't know how the output from the P looks at different apertures. Although that might also lead to a lot of film being used as I vary the flash output too ... and I have two flashes.

Still, it's fun to experiment :D
 
Cracking start to your challenge Dean, the puddle shot really works for me. Good luck with this I'm not sure I could do this at the moment, maybe if I could sell off a few from my collection it may be possible. I look forward to following your shots through the next few months.
 
Processed the second film tonight in 1-25 APH-09 for 7 minutes, inversions every minute and a prewash and wash between each stage to hopefully clear the anti-halation layer. It's drying now and the banding looks much worse. I think there might be an issue with my technique :(
 
Dean, really great project and quite heroic in my view. I haven't the will power to stick with one camera and film, so big respect from me for the level of discipline this takes!

Also looking at the banding issue in the processing I had a similar effect a few years ago caused I think by not having enough chemical in the the tank. Looking at the image of the neg, the alignment of the banding with the space between the sprocket holes and the fact the banding is on just one side suggests to me this is related to chemical flow during the inversions! I am uncertain which chemical, developer or fixer, possibly the latter? That said this is just me thinking out loud and I am no expert.

Hope you get it sorted as this is a great project to follow.
 
Dean, what is your technique? How much chemicals? How does this stuff respond to normal inversions?

Must admit I've kind of gone off stand, it can be a little unpredictable.

Read the fine post....


Errm having actually read your post properly, I dunno. How much chemicals are you using?
 
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Thanks for the kind words, Adrian :)

For the last dev, I mixed 12ml APH-09 with 300ml distilled water. My tank is labelled as 296ml per 35mm film and I've always rounded up to makes the sums easier. I used the same inversion technique with Ilfosol 3 last year and had no problems on other films, though I don't remember processing any Tri-x back then.

My inversions involve turning the tank upside down and back again, first to the left and then the right, over a couple of seconds and doing that four times, so roughly 8-10 seconds each minute. I'm processing a single film in a tank that can take two 35mm spools. I wonder if I need to agitate more during the prewash or rinses as I was filling the tank and emptying it rather than shaking it about, it's not something I've needed to do previously.

For stand dev I use 3ml to 300ml of water, no inversions for 1 hour. Again, never been an issue with other B&W films, only Tri-x.
 
Oh, and when I poured off the developer, the water was almost black, which I think must be the layer I'm looking to remove.

Other chems, I'm using Ilfostop 1:19 (batch still straw coloured) and Ilford rapid fix 1:9 mixed fresh on 5/1 and only used for the previous film in this project.
 
When I prewash gp3 I use the same technique as I do for the intermediate washes, same as ilford recommend, 10 inversions drain the water, 20 inversions drain then 40 and drain. All at ~20c. The colour is a very shocking blue which I guess is the ah ink.

Another thing might be insufficient chemicals. 5ml is the recommended minimum for rodinal to do a 135 film even at 1+100 so you might need to make up 500:5 even just for 35mm.
 
Just a thought. Is there any way the spool can ride up the central core ?
It'll mean the film is not always submerged in developer. Could it be uneven development as the solution runs down the film.
It's happened to me....
 
steveo_mcg said:
When I prewash gp3 I use the same technique as I do for the intermediate washes, same as ilford recommend, 10 inversions drain the water, 20 inversions drain then 40 and drain. All at ~20c. The colour is a very shocking blue which I guess is the ah ink.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll give that a go.

steveo_mcg said:
Another thing might be insufficient chemicals. 5ml is the recommended minimum for rodinal to do a 135 film even at 1+100 so you might need to make up 500:5 even just for 35mm.
Click to expand...

Next film I'll use 500ml, which will rule out low tide issues but that doesn't explain the banding on the last roll as that had 12ml in the mix.

trevorbray said:
Just a thought. Is there any way the spool can ride up the central core ?
Click to expand...

Don't think so, the spools I have click into place on the core and the last one was definitely at the bottom because I had the same thought and checked. :)
 
Great start to your challenge. Really like them, especially the puddle pic.
 
Strappy said:
Thanks, I'll give that a go.



Next film I'll use 500ml, which will rule out low tide issues but that doesn't explain the banding on the last roll as that had 12ml in the mix.



Don't think so, the spools I have click into place on the core and the last one was definitely at the bottom because I had the same thought and checked. :)
Click to expand...

Nope your right, comprehension failure again...
 
Thanks, Des, that's my favourite from the first roll, printed and on the wall with a couple of others as inspiration :)

I may have found my banding issue, plenty of other references to the same problem from googling under the description "bromide drag". Though I've also found a few references to plastic reels preventing the even flow of developer and insufficient agitation. Might have sussed this out by the end of the year :D
 
Cool stuff this - glad to see you in action on it today!
 
I might be jumping the gun a little but I may have taken a step towards sorting out my banding problem. After reading lots of stuff online, much of which contradicts other stuff (for example, prewash comes out at about 50/50 for and against), I went back to first principles and only changed one thing - the agitation. I ran a film through in 1:25 rodinal using 300ml of water, steady agitation for the first minute and for the first 10 seconds of each minute, total 7 minutes. I also mixed up a fresh batch of fix but that was because it was exhausted.

Taking the film off the reel and I can't see any banding, the images seem crisp with nicely defined blacks. I'm really looking forward to scanning these tomorrow :woot:
 
That's the method I've always used, 30 seconds of rotation to start (rotate the dev tank 90 degrees to the left/back to top/90 degrees to the left.../tap a few times to move any bubbles) then the same for 10 seconds every minute.

Hopefully you've sorted out the issues so your negs do justice to the shots.

Cheers
Steve
 
^^^^ yep - pretty much the same here.
 
It's the same way I processed B&W in the past before I started stand developing everything. I think the thing with Tri-X is the layer needs more aggressive inversions, actual agitation, to remove the halation/bromide layer (or whatever it is) but you can't do too much as that apparently leads to foaming and bubbles on the film. Last night I used a technique roughly halfway between gentle inversions and shaking the tank, which appeared to do the job. I have a roll that I shot in the cathedral yesterday though which is going to be stand dev'd to get as much as I can from the low light conditions. That'll be a test of my new Tri-X technique!
 
I wonder what that will mean when I get my first Tri-X film into the Rondinax? I've just finished the last roll of XP2, and the Tri-X is going in today. I'll re-read before I do it, but with the Rondinax it seemed to be mostly a fairly continuous winding (since only half the film is in the soup).

I guess I'll have to sup it and see!
 
Pick of the shots from the second film, not that there was a lot to choose from with the banding. For reference, these are the ones developed in 1:25 Rodinal for 7 minutes but without sufficient agitation. I'm scanning the next roll now, one of the ones shot on Sunday in Manchester, and while it's much better I can definitely see some banding on areas of a single shade when I adjust the exposure. Hopefully it won't be anywhere near as intrusive as the banding on this one, however.

I've also just finished a stand dev of the last roll from yesterday. I used a prewash on this one to bring the film up to temperature (my kitchen's quite cold) and neither it nor the dev was dark when I poured it off. Instead, the film's come out with a sort of purple tint to it. I've read about this, not sure what the cure was because I skimmed it as it wasn't addressing the banding problem I was having. :rolleyes:

I'm beginning to think that rather than continue banging my head on the Rodinal wall, it might be simpler to switch developers. Might also help bring down the grain as I understand Rodinal isn't the best bet on films above ISO200. Things to consider, etc. :)


View of Reading West Station by Dean Varney, on Flickr


Take a seat by Dean Varney, on Flickr


Stairway to somewhere by Dean Varney, on Flickr


Talk To Us by Dean Varney, on Flickr
 
A few from roll 3, taken at the Manchester meet arranged by @-Oy-. Developed in 1:25 Rodinal @ 20oC for 7 minutes, agitation for the first minute and first 10 seconds of each subsequent minute. Some banding apparent again, though this was developed with another roll in the tank so the problem may be linked to a flow issue, getting enough fluid through the tank.


Lock by Dean Varney, on Flickr


Fire Escape by Dean Varney, on Flickr


Lock 87 by Dean Varney, on Flickr


Reflections 2 by Dean Varney, on Flickr


Hitching Iron by Dean Varney, on Flickr

Few more on flickr and more to come :)
 
@Strappy Dean, the purple tint is usually a sign of poor fixing. I've had it myself. Re-fix it. Worked for me.
 
Well done for making the commitment. Composition-wise, roll 3 is very promising so the improvement process is already working IMHO.

Tri-X is the only film that I have'nt used liked when developed with Rodinal - my results were very grainy, but then my personal preference is to avoid grain and some people like to accentuate grain.
 
trevorbray said:
@Strappy Dean, the purple tint is usually a sign of poor fixing. I've had it myself. Re-fix it. Worked for me.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Trevor, re-fixed this morning and I can't tell that it's made any difference to be honest. The fix was a fresh mix yesterday and I've only used it on 3 rolls so it's unlikely to have gone off already. I can remove any tint that the scanner picks up in LR so not that big a problem.

Kevin Allan said:
Tri-X is the only film that I have'nt used liked when developed with Rodinal - my results were very grainy, but then my personal preference is to avoid grain and some people like to accentuate grain.
Click to expand...

I'm coming around to thinking that the amount of grain should be balanced by the subject, so gritty, industrial subjects can be grainy while people or landscapes should generally be a bit smoother, though again I think it should depend on the image and the message or context.
 
Developing woes aside, there are some super images in that second batch, love the canal side themed work and the great use of shallow depth of field, the jaunty angled reflection in the water is quite excellent!
 
These are very nice, Dean. I like them all; the steps one particularly appeals, despite the flare. Nice long exposure on the lock, too. Was that handheld?
 
Thanks, Chris :)

You're right about the flare, it's distracting and I'm normally a fan. I think it's probably connected to the uncoated lens I'm using as there wasn't any direct sunlight at that point (overcast and misty most of the day in fact). Might be another useful exercise to try to tone that down by burning in the details in PSE when I get a chance.

The lock wasn't handheld, I believe for that one I stood the camera on the other lock gate and used a short cable release. Some of the other pictures I used a small tripod that I bought from LCE on Saturday, a Manfrotto PIXI. Quick review, it's short and light enough to slip into the bag, it's really sturdy and holds the camera well, which was a bit surprising as the P feels as though it's been carved from solid metal and the tripod socket is on one end but the camera doesn't droop or cause the ball socket to move when you're setting up. Recommended. :)
 
Very much like the first two and the last, Dean! This seems to be really working for you.
 
Thanks, Chris.

Not having to choose which film or camera to take with me is certainly liberating and I'm really glad I decided to use a small camera, I wouldn't want to be lugging my T90 everywhere! I can feel the difference it's making, forcing me to look for different angles or interpretations of the subject, which is the point of the exercise after all. Thanks again for drawing it to my attention in the first place :D

It's still early days, first month and I'm 7 rolls in, but I anticipate extending this run beyond the 3 months I initially committed to. It's good fun and I'm really enjoying it, plus I've done more work in LR than I have previously. I wonder whether that's because I want to show the image I had in mind when I took the photo and can remember that because I'm not struggling to keep up with half-a-dozen films taken on different cameras as I was before. Although if I do extend it, I may relax the rules slightly so that I can take my 'blad out occasionally. I do miss viewing those gorgeous 120 negatives.
 
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