Olympus OM-D E-M10

J

Jono1

Guest
Is anyone else thinking about purchasing this little camera? I like the look of it, but trying to figure out if it has focus peaking or not? I've found focus peaking really handy in other cameras that I've used. There's nothing I've seen that suggests it has this feature, so I'm assuming it doesn't, but can someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks
 
Ah. awesome. Thank you. I must have thought to look everywhere apart from Oly's own website.... Silly me
 
Personally I'm in two minds about an E-M10 or a second-hand E-M5 for the better stabilisation.

I already have a tiny e-pM2 so I've got the sensor and gubbinses already.
 
I want to keep a MFT system and at some point I'll buy a body to upgrade from my G1 but with this camera I'm faced with the same problem that drove me out of MFT... a base ISO 200 and a max shutter speed of 1/4000 which mean in good light shooting at small apertures or the frequent use of ND's. Even f4 wont be possible on many occasions.
 
Ulfric M Douglas said:
Personally I'm in two minds about an E-M10 or a second-hand E-M5 for the better stabilisation.

I already have a tiny e-pM2 so I've got the sensor and gubbinses already.
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I had an EM5 loved the ibis and how it worked on my legacy lenses. Didn't realise the ibis on the EM10 was problematic. Have a Fuji now great camera but I do miss the ibis

Steve
 
I don't think the IBIS is problematic on the e-m10. It's merely not as good as the IBIS on the e-m5. In fact the IBIS on the e-m10 should be better than that of the Panasonic GX7. I hear what Alan is saying about the min ISO and max shutter though. That thought had not crossed my mind, but a screw on variable ND filter is a quick fix for that (although different lenses may require different filters).

The e-m5's real trump card for me is the weather sealing. I find I'm out shooing in the rain alot, but I do also like the idea of focus peaking which is something it sadly lacks. Unless anyone knows of another MFT camera out there that has weather sealing and focus peaking that is in-line with the pricing of the e-m10 and not the e-m1? (I think that would be my holy grail)
 
Jono1 said:
I don't think the IBIS is problematic on the e-m10. It's merely not as good as the IBIS on the e-m5. In fact the IBIS on the e-m10 should be better than that of the Panasonic GX7. I hear what Alan is saying about the min ISO and max shutter though. That thought had not crossed my mind, but a screw on variable ND filter is a quick fix for that (although different lenses may require different filters).
The e-m5's real trump card for me is the weather sealing. I find I'm out shooing in the rain alot, but I do also like the idea of focus peaking which is something it sadly lacks. Unless anyone knows of another MFT camera out there that has weather sealing and focus peaking that is in-line with the pricing of the e-m10 and not the e-m1? (I think that would be my holy grail)
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There is a work around for focus peaking on the EM5 using one of the art filters, can't remember which now, but it was reasonably effective

Steve
 
Oh ok.. I'm not one for art filters, but i'll look into it.
 
Actually I'm getting my cameras mixed up here. I thought we were talking about the EM1 I didn't realise there was a EM10 :LOL: it was the max shutter speed that eventually twigged of course it's 1/8000 on the EM1
 
ah... well, the e-m10 is coming soon and is basically a hybrid of the e-m5 and the e-m1, but a little more budget friendly, so it lacks features like weather sealing and the max shutter speed of 1/8000th of a second.. Still, it has the same sensor as found in the e-m5 and same processor as found in the e-m1. And, it has no low pass filter... It looks very interesting for people like myself who find the e-m5 and e-m10 just a little beyond budget. Although, I guess I could pick up a second hand e-m5 for more or less the same price (but we all like things to be shiny and new :))
 
Jono1 said:
I don't think the IBIS is problematic on the e-m10. It's merely not as good as the IBIS on the e-m5. In fact the IBIS on the e-m10 should be better than that of the Panasonic GX7. I hear what Alan is saying about the min ISO and max shutter though. That thought had not crossed my mind, but a screw on variable ND filter is a quick fix for that (although different lenses may require different filters).
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Personally I hate ND's and found that even with ISO 100 and 1/4000 I needed an ND for about one shot in three.

The issue I have is that I like both shallow DoF and using only the aperture that is adequate for the scene and no smaller and of course with MFT f8 and be there becomes f4 and be there as you need to use wider apertures with the shorter focal length lenses.

I did try shooting with my G1 set to ISO 200 on one unremarkable and not overly bright day and found that for some scenes I was restricted to f7.something and you could argue that anything getting down towards f8 as well as limiting choice and portability could also be heading into diffraction and impacting on image quality.

I'm frustrated and annoyed by this issue that seems to afflict Panasonic, Olympus and Fuji and I wish that they could offer a good quality ISO 100 and allow raw at that setting and a max shutter speed of 1/8000. With ISO 200 and 1/4000 it's like being stuck in the 1950's or as I'm not old enought for that decade, the 1960's. Sony at least offer ISO 100 with their Nex series of APS-C CSC's.
 
For sme reason it's not showing the vid

Here's the direct link

 
jakeblu said:
Actually I'm getting my cameras mixed up here. I thought we were talking about the EM1 I didn't realise there was a EM10 :LOL: it was the max shutter speed that eventually twigged of course it's 1/8000 on the EM1
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Better than ISO 200 and 1/4000 but as far as I know you still don't have ISO 100, maybe not with raw anyway, I think it's a cobbled setting basically overexposing an ISO 200 shot and applying a curve? Something like that. Still, an option to allow you to blow your highlights a little easier is always handy.
 
woof woof said:
I'm frustrated and annoyed by this issue that seems to afflict Panasonic, Olympus and Fuji and I wish that they could offer a good quality ISO 100 and allow raw at that setting and a max shutter speed of 1/8000. With ISO 200 and 1/4000 it's like being stuck in the 1950's or as I'm not old enought for that decade, the 1960's. Sony at least offer ISO 100 with their Nex series of APS-C CSC's.
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The EM1 has a max shutter of 1/8000 and I thought a low setting for iso100. Could be wrong though this is the guy who got his EM1 & EM10 mixed up :LOL:

Steve
 
woof woof said:


Better than ISO 200 and 1/4000 but as far as I know you still don't have ISO 100, maybe not with raw anyway, I think it's a cobbled setting basically overexposing an ISO 200 shot and applying a curve? Something like that. Still, an option to allow you to blow your highlights a little easier is always handy.
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Whoops sorry posted together

Steve
 
woof woof said:
Personally I hate ND's and found that even with ISO 100 and 1/4000 I needed an ND for about one shot in three.

The issue I have is that I like both shallow DoF and using only the aperture that is adequate for the scene and no smaller and of course with MFT f8 and be there becomes f4 and be there as you need to use wider apertures with the shorter focal length lenses.

I did try shooting with my G1 set to ISO 200 on one unremarkable and not overly bright day and found that for some scenes I was restricted to f7.something and you could argue that anything getting down towards f8 as well as limiting choice and portability could also be heading into diffraction and impacting on image quality.

I'm frustrated and annoyed by this issue that seems to afflict Panasonic, Olympus and Fuji and I wish that they could offer a good quality ISO 100 and allow raw at that setting and a max shutter speed of 1/8000. With ISO 200 and 1/4000 it's like being stuck in the 1950's or as I'm not old enought for that decade, the 1960's. Sony at least offer ISO 100 with their Nex series of APS-C CSC's.
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Perhaps these CSC's are not for you. Maybe stick with full frame SLR's, or Sony's range of CSC's. I like MFT cameras and lenses for their portability, yet I also realise what I'm missing out on when compared to the larger sensor cameras, but it is just the compromise I make. I'm also no pro photographer. I'm just an enthusiast who likes taking photos and feel that MFT is sufficient for my needs
 
jakeblu said:
Whoops sorry posted together

Steve
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As above. AFAIK the ISO 100 isn't "real" and comes with a price of reduced DR and probably JPEG only? Not too sure about the JPEG bit bit as far as I know the base ISO is 200 and 100 is just over exposed and pulled back.

CSC are for me and indeed I've switched to a Sony A7 to be free of this issue.

Note that the current woe of increased base ISO's is a new affliction to CSC's and not one which my G1 suffers from.

A similar problem does exist with entry APS-C and even FF DSLR's in that you are limited to 1/4000 but at least you do have ISO 100 as did my 20D and 5D.
 
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I know it's not a 100 ISO, but the Panasonic G6 and GX7 both have a base ISO of 160 and the 1/8000th max shutter speed is pretty rare in cameras, but the GM1 has a 1/16000th max shutter speed.
 
1/8000 isn't rare at all. I think that all top end DSLR's both APS-C and FF apart from the new entry level FF models (Canon 6D and the similar Nikon thingy) have both ISO 100 and 1/8000. Entry level APS-C's seem to have 1/4000 but remember that they'll shoot raw at ISO 100. Many people seem to shoot with f3.5-5.6 kit lenses anyway so will never see the problem but with cameras aimed at enthusiasts I'd hoped for better. Even with 1/4000 50mm at f2.8 and ISO 100 may be possible on FF when 25mm at f1.4 and ISO 200 on MFT isn't.

I don't know why manufacturers are upping the base ISO and mostly only offering 1/4000 sec, I can only guess. I guess that a lower maximum shutter speed means a lower spec shutter and reduced costs but the rising base ISO is more difficult for me to understand... maybe it's a result of the ever smaller pixels because of the ongoing and stupid (IMVHO) mp race or maybe it's a side effect of the ever higher ISO's that are offered these days. I don't know.

With the smaller chip systems as you're possibly using wider lenses getting any limited DoF at all means using wider apertures but in anything like half decent light if there's any sky in your shot you can't shoot at anything like f1.8 or wider and hope to stay below 1/4000 or even 1/8000 if your base ISO is 200 and buying nice f1.4 and faster lenses and shooting them at f8 annoys me as much as using ND's does.

The reason this annoys me so much is that I really wanted to love MFT and CSC's in general and I see so many missed opportunities for the systems to really shine. And here's another new camera with the same issue for me.

For me the advantages of these systems are portability and inobtrusive shooting and both are diminished for me by the need to...
-constantly fit and remove ND's,
-shoot with smaller apertures which are often smaller than the scene demands,
-frame the shot to avoid brightness and keep the shutter speed down or
-just let the highlights blow (this seems to be the common option on many blogs and review sites with many images blown to bu**ery.)
Grrrrrr....

I know I'm suffering OCD on this. I'll shut up now.
 
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woof woof said:
I don't know why manufacturers are upping the base ISO and mostly only offering 1/4000 sec, I can only guess. I guess that a lower maximum shutter speed means a lower spec shutter and reduced costs but the rising base ISO is more difficult for me to understand... .
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I guess differently.
Shifting the ISO-sensitivity range during sensor design could literally halve the high-ISO sensitivity (doubling high-ISO noise) and you know how crippling that would be at DPReview or DXOmark!

Let's test our G1s and see if that's really an ISO100 RAW, 'cos I think its the same sensor as the Olympii of the time : which have 'fake' ISO 100 ... another thread to be sure.
 
Whatever... The result is the same...

MFT and other smaller sensor systems can push you to using wider apertures if you like the shallow DoF look and whatever the technical reason it just isn't possible to shoot at wide open apertures in good light with these systems without the use of ND's. Whilst other systems allow wide open shooting I personally find the limitations of MFT and the necessity to either alter my shooting style by using ND's or apertures nearing f8 or framing my subjects in such a way to reduce the shutter speed too much of a price to pay.

I know I'm in a tiny minority on this and it's just one lost sale to Panasonic, Olympus or Fuji so thank God for Sony. They got my dosh. Bye Bye MFT I've given up on you.
 
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Why are you dismissing Fuji as well, since they use APS-C and their ISO starts at 100?
 
Jono1 said:
ah... well, the e-m10 is coming soon and is basically a hybrid of the e-m5 and the e-m1, but a little more budget friendly, so it lacks features like weather sealing and the max shutter speed of 1/8000th of a second.. Still, it has the same sensor as found in the e-m5 and same processor as found in the e-m1. And, it has no low pass filter... It looks very interesting for people like myself who find the e-m5 and e-m10 just a little beyond budget. Although, I guess I could pick up a second hand e-m5 for more or less the same price (but we all like things to be shiny and new :))
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Don't forget Olympus are throwing in the 45mm lens and grip with official UK stock EM-5 & kit lens purchases, so in effect the price of the EM-5 and EM10 is around the same once you factor in the value of those (assuming you wanted them anyway) - but of course the outlay will be higher. Used Em-5 bodies have gone for as little as £350 recently so a fair saving on the £529 launch price of the EM-10. Or if going the grey import route, hdew have new EM-5 bodies for £485 with their own 3 year warranty.
 
Jono1 said:
Why are you dismissing Fuji as well, since they use APS-C and their ISO starts at 100?
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APS-C still pushes me towards wider lenses and wider apertures and as far as I know there is no ISO 100 other than an in camera JPEG. Sorry if I'm wrong but again AFAIK the base ISO is 200 and any ISO 100 shots the camera produces are over exposed ISO 200 shots with the exposure pulled back.

It's an answer, but not the one I'm looking for.

I was prtetty happy with my APS-C 20D, so much so that I shot with it for 7 years as although it was APS-C it allowed me to shoot with a 30mm lens at f1.4 at ISO 100 and 1/8000 which meant that I never once felt restricted in the way that my G1 (ISO 100 but 1/4000) made me feel and I fear that I'd feel even more restricted with ISO 200 and 1/4000 or just as restricted with ISO 200 and 1/8000.

I know that I tend to be a bit OCD... a bit about my history... I spent many years working in computing, wider electronics, production and quality and the things that made me good at those things (borderline OCD / obsession with detail... and when I see a fault it's ALL I can see...) make me a poor customer. I like cameras and photography but but I like my gear to get out of the way and let me shoot how I want to shoot and a high base ISO when coupled to a restrictive maximum shutter speed affects how I want to shoot and as actual image quality is good these days I tend to look to buy more on specification than image quality and therefore Fuji, Olympus and Panasonic cameras that offer wonderful image quality would have me drop kicking them over a hedge pretty quickly because of my own rather odd requirement to be able to shoot shallow DoF shots in good light without ND's.

I'm sure that these are great cameras if you don't want shallow DoF in good light or don't mind using ND's and I'll try not to mention my own little annoyances again (today.) :D
 
woof woof said:
Note that the current woe of increased base ISO's is a new affliction to CSC's and not one which my G1 suffers from..
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This might suit slight OCD :) I just did the test I mentioned.
My Olympus e-P2's RAW files at ISO100 and ISO200 seem to be the same exposure (viewed through FastStone47 which does NOT apply any camera-info-based exposure manipulation), which is equivalent (almost) to my G1's RAW ISO100 ... which means both models have a minimum ISO of something, but they are labelling them differently.
Let's assume they are both base ISO 160-ish.
How they expose in bright light with fast lenses will be almost the same, but they report ISOs differently. Annoying.

Now, what was this thread about?
It seems to me there should be a neat little measurement showing what the shutterspeed would be for every camera at a certain lens aperture and a certain light level, then we could equivalentize our opinions on sensor sensitivities across brands and models.
 
Any happy owners of E-M10 would like to share thoughts about this camera?
 
After using the E-M5, I have been waiting for a camera like this camera to hit the shelves. It's more affordable, smaller (slightly) and has features that I was wanting such as focus peaking and wi-fi with remote control features. It's just a shame it is not weather sealed, but that's one of the main trade offs for a cheaper camera. I think I can live with that though, as I have taken other non-weather sealed cameras out in the rain without any problems. I also love the range of dedicated lenses for micro-four thirds. The image stabilisation of this camera (albeit 3 axis and not 5) is another of the selling points for me, having seen it in practice it looks awesome. I was considering getting a Panasonic G6, which in many respects is a similar and cheaper camera (although it does have more options for movie makers), but I do like the all metal body of the olympus and the IS are probably the reasons I'd choose this over the Panasonic G6 for my photography needs. I might still get the G6 and give movie making a whirl :)
 
Tbh, reading this thread has got me really interested in this little beauty but the price of primes is ridiculous. I like the idea of the 2x crop factor but looking at the cost of some of the fast portrait lenses has really put me off. Are there cheaper lenses for this system?
 
minnnt said:
Tbh, reading this thread has got me really interested in this little beauty but the price of primes is ridiculous. I like the idea of the 2x crop factor but looking at the cost of some of the fast portrait lenses has really put me off. Are there cheaper lenses for this system?
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I think that they're actually priced quite well if you compare them to good quality equivalent focal length alternatives from Canon and Nikon. It's a long time since I owned Nikon so I'm not too up on their lenses but certainly with Canon I think that some of their lenses are... well... older designs and less than state of the art these days :D whilst the MFT alternatives are good lenses and impress wide open and that's not always something you can say about Canon lenses. Look at their 50mm lenses...

I'm impressed with the Panasonic 20mm f1.7 and Olympus 45mm f1.8 and the Olympus 25mm f1.8 should be good too and there is of course the option to use a legacy 50mm f1.8 or f1.4 and you can pick these up at very reasonable prices.
 
Sigma 19mm f2.8, 30mm f2.8 and 60mm f2.8 £125 new (SRS on ebay) or from £70 used.
Panasonic 20mm f1.7 - mint one just sold on mpb for £180. £280 new.
Panasonic 14mm f2.5 £120 new (split from kit on ebay), under £100 used.
Olympus 45mm 1.8 £160 used £210 new.
New Olympus 25mm f1.8 - price drop to £299 today (SRS), over time will hopefully fall to similar price as the 45mm.
Samyang 8mm f3.5 fisheye £160 new (grey import) £240 new (UK stock) around £180 used.
New Samyang 12mm f2 (rectilinear, not a fish-eye) will be a similar price. (Note the Samyang lenses are manual focus only - hardly an issue with such a wide angle lens though - set to infinity there is seldom any need to focus except for close ups).

AF ultra wides are pricey eg Panasonic 7-14 is twice the price of the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 and Olympus 12mm prime is over £500 new.

The Olympus 40-150 is not a prime obviously nor a wide-angle, but very good value at £119 new. The original Panasonic 14-45mm 'kit lens' is also excellent and can be found for around £100 to £120 used in excellent condition. The 12-50 Olympus kit lens, while not as good, does have the benefits of 12mm, weather-sealing and 'macro' (close-up) focusing - good used copies can also be found for £100 to £120.
 
minnnt said:
Would the IQ be comparable to a Nikon d7000?
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I would say image quality is likely to be fairly comparable, with the bigger sensor Nikon having a bit more dynamic range and better high ISO performance (and a bit less depth of field obviously) but not sure how noticeable that would be in everyday use and depending on other factors too of course:

Here is the DXO sensor test comparison for what it's worth:
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Comp...SLT-Alpha-57-versus-Nikon-D7000___937_798_680

I use a G3 and an A57 - the G3 sensor 'tests' worse than the A57 but in general everyday use I cannot notice much difference between them except maybe at ISO 3200 and up the G3 has a bit more noise and overall a bit less dynamic range but any differences are fairly minor and I have got good A3 and A4 prints from both.
 
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I'm really considering upgrading my GX1 for an EM10. The IBIS, EVF and wifi are the key features that appeal over the GX1. It looks about the same size, and a metal body too.

I'm just waiting to read more reviews and maybe for its first price drop in a few months. I'm also a bit worried about a rattlesnake noise problem that may occur with the Panasonic 25mm f1.4 as the EM5 had, but now there's an Olympus 25mm can always sell it and pick up that if there is a problem!
 
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