Olympus XA - film won't advance, shutter won't fire

abdoujaparov

abdoujaparov

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As I mentioned yesterday in the bargains thread, I bought an Olympus XA for £1 in a charity shop. I got the batteries today, but as in the title, the film wheel won't advance and the shutter won't fire. The battery test works fine (light on, makes a sound), the self-timer works fine (which proves that the shutter button is responsive - it starts the countdown, but the shutter doesn't fire), the shutter-speed needle moves in the viewfinder when I change the aperture.

I assume the film advance wheel won't turn because the shutter is cocked. The shutter is supposed to fire when the back is closed and the clam is open, or when the back is open and the clam is shut, but it does neither. If I push the film take-up spool, I can move it in either direction - I assume that's because I need to fire the shutter and advance the wheel to allow the film rewind button to disengage.

I do have some actual silver oxide SR44 batteries on order, just in case the alkaline LR44 won't work (apparently Olympus says not to use the alkaline ones, but I assume that's for meter-related reasons). If those don't work, I guess I'll take it apart (nothing to lose). Does anybody have any suggestions for anything I might have missed? Cheers.
 
I don't have an XA but have an XA2 and sometimes it behaves as you describe if the clamshell isn't fully open. It's not always obvious when this is the case, but closing and opening the clamshell a little more forcefully corrects it. Just a thought, and pretty much the only thing I can suggest, I'm afraid. May be worth trying the SR44 battery as you suggest but I think you're probably right that it won't make a difference. If it's none of these things then the shutter may be physically jammed in some way, or there's an electrical issue to the shutter that probably means it's beyond effective repair. If it is in a cocked state, as you suspect, and has been for years potentially, that in itself might render it kaput.
 
TheGreatSoprendo said:
I don't have an XA but have an XA2 and sometimes it behaves as you describe if the clamshell isn't fully open. It's not always obvious when this is the case, but closing and opening the clamshell a little more forcefully corrects it. Just a thought, and pretty much the only thing I can suggest, I'm afraid. May be worth trying the SR44 battery as you suggest but I think you're probably right that it won't make a difference. If it's none of these things then the shutter may be physically jammed in some way, or there's an electrical issue to the shutter that probably means it's beyond effective repair. If it is in a cocked state, as you suspect, and has been for years potentially, that in itself might render it kaput.
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Cheers! Ah, well, taking it apart might teach me something, at the very least. Shame, I was looking forward to using it.
 
Hah. I checked eBay to see if there was a cheap one. Loads of XA1, XA2s. Very few XAs . . . and they're not cheap. Like, £75-£100. Doubly annoying now!
 
TheGreatSoprendo said:
If you're willing to take a gamble (and it always is from them), Rocky Cameras have one in for £49, and currently have a 40% sale going on...so that would be £29.40 + postage. Including the A11 flash!

http://www.rockycameras.com/--xa--olympus-xa-rangefinder-camera-cw-a11-camera-flash-4999-55954-p.asp
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Cheers! But it was just a whim, I'd gotten excited at the idea of a tiny 35mm. I should really spend the money on some B&W film for the Bronica . . .

Maybe I'll get lucky and fix this one.
 
Good luck with the disassembly and investigation but I wouldn't get too optimistic about being able to repair the XA. Until very recently I had two working XAs, then one refused to fire (or meter or battery test). I removed the bottom and the clamshell and found that the wire to the battery housing had corroded away. Despite knowing what was wrong, I was unable to get a soldering iron in to repair it. The insides are highly miniaturised and as you would expect from such a tiny, complicated machine, there is no free space inside. From memory I think that the electromagnet for the shutter was visible with the clamshell removed. When you remove it, watch out for the tiny steel ball that will fall out; it provides the detent for the clamshell closed position. You never know, you might be lucky and it was only a £1!

I bought my first XA in 1987 to take on a cycling holiday instead of my Canon A1. It was about £120 back then I think. They are nice cameras but not worth £100 now. I have an XA3 too and they are nearly as good and in some ways more convenient. I'm currently enjoying using my £1.50 charity shop Canon Sureshot 35AF which looks cheap and nasty but seems to have quite a good lens. I think that the lottery of charity shop cameras is the acceptable face of gambling, it's not going to break the bank if you lose and you might win a real bargain.
 
Try cleaning the battery terminals (vinegar works).

Most problems with these is due to poor contact. A high resistance contact allows the battery check to work but it cannot supply enough current to trip the shutter.

Switch it to battery check. If the check tone stops when you press the shutter, this is the problem.

abdoujaparov said:
Very few XAs . . . and they're not cheap. Like, £75-£100. Doubly annoying now!
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Really? I might have to sell mine. I got £75 for my XA4 last year but I didn't think the XA was worth that much.


Steve.
 
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Steve Smith said:
Try cleaning the battery terminals (vinegar works).

Most problems with these is due to poor contact. A high resistance contact allows the battery check to work but it cannot supply enough current to trip the shutter.

Switch it to battery check. If the check tone stops when you press the shutter, this is the problem.
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Genius! Well, I haven't tried fixing it yet, but that is indeed a symptom. Thanks! I'll let you know how I get on. (It also gives me some hope that the other set of batteries might help, too)
 
abdoujaparov said:
Genius! Well, I haven't tried fixing it yet, but that is indeed a symptom. Thanks! I'll let you know how I get on. (It also gives me some hope that the other set of batteries might help, too)
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No luck with the contacts (they were clean before I gave them the vinegar treatment to be honest) but maybe the SR44s will help. I switched in two other LR44s, and funnily enough the silence was a bit longer when I pressed the shutter, so who knows?

Thanks again!
 
abdoujaparov said:
No luck with the contacts (they were clean before I gave them the vinegar treatment to be honest) but maybe the SR44s will help. I switched in two other LR44s, and funnily enough the silence was a bit longer when I pressed the shutter, so who knows?
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Oh, silly me - it's silent for for length of time the shutter is supposed to be open for . . .
 
Have you tried hitting it with a rubber mallet? I've cured 3 different charity shop/car boot cameras with the judicial use of a tapping stick. As it only cost you a pound it may be worth a go, if the shutter has become seized perhaps a little percussive persuasion will do the trick.
 
RaglanSurf said:
Have you tried hitting it with a rubber mallet? I've cured 3 different charity shop/car boot cameras with the judicial use of a tapping stick. As it only cost you a pound it may be worth a go, if the shutter has become seized perhaps a little percussive persuasion will do the trick.
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I've had success hitting objects with mallets to free them but these have been confined to starter motor Bendix gears and gunk in the bottom of radiators. Wickes do quite nice 24 and 26 oz mallets which should give an 8 oz XA a damn good rattling!

I fished my u/s model out of the bin to take some phone photos of its insides in case you opt for a more conservative approach. Firstly the good news, here's the view you get by just removing the bottom:



The green cocktail stick is holding up the armature on an electromagnet, which I assume operates the shutter. It would be worth wiping the armature and magnet pole piece faces with a cloth dampened with lighter fluid. Doing that to my Canon A1 fixed a non firing shutter. This operation requires minimal disassembly and a low risk of breaking anything.

Here's the bad news, the front view:



I've no idea where you would start removing pieces to investigate. Once again, best of luck
 
NickT said:
I fished my u/s model out of the bin to take some phone photos of its insides in case you opt for a more conservative approach.
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Wow, thank you! That was really good of you. I'm going to wait for the silver oxide batteries, and if they don't work, I'll open it up and have a prod. If it's not some blindingly obvious corrosion, then I don't fancy my chances, but it's worth a go.

Thanks all again.
 
Swabbing down the electro magnet is a good shout, managed to rescue an OM with that trick.
 
I'd still go with the judicious tapping... i.e. tap camera firmly a few times on a carpeted floor, base first. Apart from corroded battery terminals a lot of issues revolve around lack of use rather than deterioration.
 
It's amazing what a thump can do as recently my car's window\wiper washer stopped working, gave the little electrical pump a thump and it started pumping again :cool:
 
The Olympus XA is one of the smallest 35mm cameras ever made. It also has one of the smallest examples of the camera component most prone to going out of adjustment, namely the rangefinder. Given those facts, I'm at a loss to understand why so many folks are in favour of the "let's beat the crap out of it till it works" approach to repair. I've found an online version of the service manual and at first glance, mallets are not mentioned, nor is the verb 'thump'. It's never really been an accepted method for fixing precision optics. If it had been, then maybe NASA wouldn't have done all those service missions to fix the Hubble Telescope - they'd have just gone up there once and lamped it one with a Stillson.

One a more serious note, I'm afraid that there are two electromagnets involved in shutter operation; one to open the shutter, one to close it again. The one you can see with the bottom removed is the 'close' magnet. The other one, which is the more likely culprit, is behind that metal plate, just below the lens.
 
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NickT said:
The Olympus XA is one of the smallest 35mm cameras ever made. It also has one of the smallest examples of the camera component most prone to going out of adjustment, namely the rangefinder. Given those facts, I'm at a loss to understand why so many folks are in favour of the "let's beat the crap out of it till it works" approach to repair. I've found an online version of the service manual and at first glance, mallets are not mentioned, nor is the verb 'thump'. It's never really been an accepted method for fixing precision optics. If it had been, then maybe NASA wouldn't have done all those service missions to fix the Hubble Telescope - they'd have just gone up there once and lamped it one with a Stillson.

One a more serious note, I'm afraid that there are two electromagnets involved in shutter operation; one to open the shutter, one to close it again. The one you can see with the bottom removed is the 'close' magnet. The other one, which is the more likely culprit, is behind that metal plate, just below the lens.
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Well yes ...but I think the thump came into it because the camera cost £1......also it's a last resort if for any camera, the repair cost more than it's worth. ;)
 
It's a compact camera ideal for travel. Was there anything in the owner's manual about packing it securely in bubble wrap before you took it anywhere?

Percussive maintenance is as old as the hills and no one's seriously suggesting the use of a hammer, are they?
 
Percussive maintenance is the old fashioned version of IT - impact technology! A gentle tap to start with, escalating slightly until you become uncomfortable about whacking the thing. It cost £1 from a charity shop - at the very worst, you haven't lost anything you've just failed to gain from your donation to the charity.
 
I've already slapped it on the bottom with the palm of my hand. If I can't fix it any other way, it's definitely getting a bigger thump :D
 
Strappy said:
Percussive maintenance is as old as the hills and no one's seriously suggesting the use of a hammer, are they?
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might try some of that on the mrs ,,,,,,,with the hammer ,,,,,,( if she ever reads this i'll post the pictures of my black eyes ) :D
 
Strappy said:
Not all of life's problems can be solved with a hammer, then wrapped in an old carpet and dumped in the woods, Nick.
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I beg to differ ;)
 
No problem. The main thing to remember is take your time when stripping cameras/lenses down. I tend to work on a tray on my knee and have blobs of blu-tac next to the camera/lens so I can fix groups of screws together. Another handy tool is a digital camera (I use my iphone) so you can take photos as you go to give an idea of how to get it all back together.. ;0)
 
I'm told that an old driver (or 3 iron) can be used to effectively render a recalcitrant camera into its component parts. Only to be used as a last resort and when all hope of restoration to a working condition has been abandoned.
 
Sorry if I'm missing something here or just being generally stuid, but I'm sure these don't let you fire the shutter or move the film advance unless there is actually a film loaded. I'm assuming you've loaded a film or done whatever might be needed to make the camera think one is loaded?
 
thecornflake said:
Sorry if I'm missing something here or just being generally stuid, but I'm sure these don't let you fire the shutter or move the film advance unless there is actually a film loaded. I'm assuming you've loaded a film or done whatever might be needed to make the camera think one is loaded?
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I hadn't, no, but I just put a film in and it still didn't fire (or allow me to advance). Thanks, though!

Haven't opened it up yet, been ill all day.
 
I have three XA's. One was purchased new in the 1980s and it still working well, one was purchased last year for £25 and stopped working with similar symptoms (as did an XA2) and the third, purchased for £45, is fine.

I can confirm that the XA does not need a film loaded in order to fire the shutter. Also, as someone else stated above, you may have to pull the clamshell a bit further open than it first stops, to fire the shutter. Anyway, I'm off to try the vinegar trick with the non-working one. Maybe eat some chips at the same time ...
 
I have an XA4 that had a similar problem - there was some crap stuck under the clamshell that stopped it advancing right to the end when you click it open, so it wasn't firing. Try opening it up, but bear in mind there are a couple of tiny springs that may ping out when you do.
I think my dad fixed mine by whacking it on something - it dislodged the dirt and hey presto.
 
I've recently been lent my son's XA, as mentioned in another thread. The shutter needle didn't seem to be working, but folk suggested I try a film anyway. I loaded a roll of Vista; a bit suspicious as I wasn't sure the wind-on clutch was fully engaged at first. Anyway, it seemed to be working at first, even giving different shutter sounds when pointed at something darker. But the wind-on became stiffer, and now the shutter won't fire. I suspect that the film has not wound-on the required amount, but nothing will budge. Beginning to look like declaring it dead might be the appropriate option!
 
mothdust said:
I have an XA4 that had a similar problem - there was some crap stuck under the clamshell that stopped it advancing right to the end when you click it open, so it wasn't firing. Try opening it up, but bear in mind there are a couple of tiny springs that may ping out when you do.
I think my dad fixed mine by whacking it on something - it dislodged the dirt and hey presto.
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Cheers! Pretty sure that isn't the problem though - putting it in self-timer mode, I can set off the timer when it's fully open, but not when it's closed. It just doesn't fire the shutter.

I took it apart yesterday. I found the release for the film winder - pressing that allowed me to wind on, so it's not jammed. I couldn't see anything obvious, no corrosion, poking about didn't miraculously fix it, so I'm declaring time of death and moving on with my life. Thanks all for your help!
 
I bought a Chinon CM-3 at the bootie today for £1, similar problem wind on jammed and a hammer and chisel didn't work, so in the bin it went. If anybody wants any spare parts they are available until bin collection thurs.
 
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