on the death bed

Would have liked to have seen so more of the project,hopfully the op will put Some more up :)
 
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Interesting subject BUT is it legal to reproduce images in the public domain of a donated body. It might make some rethink their donation on the basis of the lack of benefit to anyone from this.
 
The OP has already said he has all necessary permissions - so in that case yes its legal
 
I look at this and I would like someone else has mentioned, I would like to know the story behind these feet, and why are they dirty?

I must admit that I'm not easily offended as very desensitised, people who are should just walk on IMHO.
 
big soft moose said:
The OP has already said he has all necessary permissions - so in that case yes its legal
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I think it depends on whose permission has been sought. For example a member of the family may say yes, However HM Coroner would say no, NHS Trust would say no. Not illegal perhaps by definition but a possible breech of professional ethics ?

Do you all really think NHS Professional Standards and Ethics would agree to this? Have you any idea of the red tape and hoops you have to jump through?

However, the image could have been taken at some local family undertakers in a lock-up. It is possible that only two people knew about it is the person taking the photograph with a nod and a wink from the undertaker or mortuary technician.

That said, I still think it is a mock-up image in any case for reasons I have stated earlier principally the lack of apparent lividity and other factors.
 
He's already said that he couldnt have contacted the family because the corpse was anonymous , so i presume that permission came from the institution which presumably gave permission for the shoot . He's also said it was part of a wider set so the chances of it being a nod and wink situation are minimal. If as the OP said this is a corpse donated to medical science i'm assuming the premises was a university, not an NHS hospital

(i'm giving the benefit of the doubt and not assuming the OP is lying about the circumstances...)

Incidentally i'm not sure why a lack of lividity on the soles would be an issue - doesnt lividity usually develop at the lowest points of the body after death... ie if a corpse was laid on its back you would expect lividity on the back and the back of the legs , not on the soles of the feet, and in the photo at hand byou can't see the back of the heels or any of the back portion so its impossible to say whether livitity has developed.
 
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big soft moose said:
Incidentally i'm not sure why a lack of lividity on the soles would be an issue - doesnt lividity usually develop at the lowest points of the body after death... ie if a corpse was laid on its back you would expect lividity on the back and the back of the legs , not on the soles of the feet, and in the photo at hand byou can't see the back of the heels or any of the back portion so its impossible to say whether livitity has developed.
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Indeed, hypostasis kicks in after a while, but the soles of the feet appear marbly white very quickly. Not so on this image!

My point was the feet looked very much alive when the photograph was taken as there appears to be a lot of blood flow going on around the ball and heels of the feet. (or very shortly after death)

In addition, there is not a lot of aluminium or brushed steel about in the image. It's in abundance in both NHS and University mortuaries and necropsy theatres. Who uses toe tags these days?, wrist bands are almost de-rigour.

Medico-legal universities still have very strict guidelines on what can and can't be done there is very little difference if any in ethics which are extremely robust.

I would be interested to see the full set in colour images and placed in context. This shouldn't be an issue really as the OP states that 'he has obtained full permission'
 
simonblue said:
Agree I thought we been thought all this :shrug:
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we have - but people keep bringing the same point up instead of reading the thread
 
Love this shot! The image of the feet doesn't make it too... Depressing? But does make ou think about life and wondering what the person when through.
More "photos" should have meaning like this, so many that I see are of houses streets etc. all without a story.

And well done for having the guts to photograph something so extreme! (I'd be scared of ghosts or something weird might appear :D)

Also permission or not who cares this is what art is all about IMO! :)
 
Psyence33 said:
Love this shot! The image of the feet doesn't make it too... Depressing? But does make ou think about life and wondering what the person when through.
More "photos" should have meaning like this, so many that I see are of houses streets etc. all without a story.

And well done for having the guts to photograph something so extreme! (I'd be scared of ghosts or something weird might appear :D)

Also permission or not who cares this is what art is all about IMO! :)
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great input Samantha :)

personally, I think it's a great shot. A bit inconclusive as to whether it's staged or not, but there's no taking away from it being a good photo! (y)
 
Wish I was less busy and could check up on these darn forums more often!

I really like the image. But I have to agree that the halo is one of the first things I noticed. But I still like the contrast and sharpness, so not sure what you'd do to fix it.

Controversy wise... I probably shouldn't... but I LOVE it. For the sole reason that I love photography that pushes boundaries and raises debate. It's getting harder and harder to (genuinely) achieve that, so cudos to you! If you don't have people taking photos that push boundaries like this then let's all pack up our gear and go home.

Looking forward to more! (Well... not really... but you keep doing what you do... :p)
 
antihero said:
great input Samantha :)

personally, I think it's a great shot. A bit inconclusive as to whether it's staged or not, but there's no taking away from it being a good photo! (y)
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Isn't it so much easier to live with an open mind? :D

I do hope it's not staged though, kind of loses it's mysterious feel if it is but then we'll never know so that's good enough! :)
 
I'll add my 2p.. I have no issue with the image at all. Permissions got, no names shown, dignity kept.
 
An off the cuff remark perhaps after all the debate of this image?

The thing about the image it has caused a lot of opinions and thoughts, but unlike the poor soul in the picture, this thread was dead and now alive again.

Whatever anyone think of the image it is obviously very thought provoking.

Originally Posted by tamphotography
come back here when you yourself can take good photos bud,
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I think the OP has produced a thought provoking image and I dont have a problem with it at all - but must add that his comments about 'come back when your a good photographer' are childish in the extreme
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Technically I can't comment, as I'm sure the OP would tell me my photos aren't up to his standard. As a 'provocative' photo, no. I just don't care that 'omg its a dead person' or 'this is so insightful'. Death is a part of life, but that doesn't mean every picture of a dead person is art or even thought provoking. This, to me, was posted to cause a fuss and create attention for reasons other than the purposes of legitimate critique.

It's a shame the antagonistic comments of the OP have seemingly been selectively ignored. This all seems to be an exercise in trolling.

As an image, the photo itself is bland, the post processing only for worsens the end product by removing the realism and thus the point entirely.

Would be interested to see some more interesting and less processed work. To me, if death is the theme, the picture should do more than just contain a dead person.
 
To me, if death is the theme, the picture should do more than just contain a dead person.
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Hi Kris,

Like what? What killed him? An ME in the pic? What?
 
Not qualfied to critque the qulaity of the work.

Wether its staged or not, I am unsure, gut feeling its staged, with the OP attempting to put a story to it.

But as image its stimulates thought. How many photos do that? Many photographs are just ooh thats a nice landscape or bird etc and once you have seen the image as a thought its gone.

To me the image gives the thought of the finality of death

So IMO, the photography has achieved something.

By the way, Had a browse through OP website and really liked the image policeman checking what i presume is a homeless person, Again a thought provoking image leading to you wanting to know more.
 
Over sharpened but though provoking.

If it isn't staged then I don't know what more the OP could have added at that moment.
If it were staged then putting the body in a location to give it a story would have been good, just off the top of my head maybe on a road next to a 30mph sign.

It also made this image pop into my head:
Ice_Cube-Death_Certificate_(album_cover).jpg
 
On the Huh said:
Hi Kris,

Like what? What killed him? An ME in the pic? What?
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Ok, not sure if you're actually asking, or just patronising my post. I'll assume you are asking...

If this picture is for art, there is nothing to the picture. It could be a better photo in my opinion as its not like the subject wouldn't hold still. Without the suspect looking toe-tag, it would be the bottom of a persons feet, with a blank background. With the toe-tag, it's a picture of the bottom of a persons feet with a blank background. The whole 'talking point' seems to be on whether the picture should have been put on TP to begin with, not anything about points of interest in photo itself.

If people were more comfortable with death on the whole and less inclined to just bicker, this would have got a few 'it's ok, but I don't like the processing' or 'I like it' or 'not for me' comments and then the thread would disappear. As is, it seems from the lack of sensible, mature communication from the OP that this was nothing more than a shock tactic and he was lying in wait for the 'choas'.

If this is a documentation or journalistic photo then the processing is surely making too much of a difference for it to be an accurate presentation of the subject. (I.E. the halo).

Either way, using a medium to just provoke one dimensional reactions to make a name for yourself is what the guy who made two girls, one cup did. That isn't good art just because people argue it over the Internet, and neither Is this to me.

Not going to keep arguing this, that's where I stand and I won't be repeating it over and over. If you disagree with me, then that's good, just ignore me and enjoy the thread. :)

Have a nice day.
 
Kris...
Not patronising, genuine question! :shrug:
Thanks for the reply...I think? I say that as your last paragraph sounds a little bit defensive?

Lots of threads include debating, some get argumentive. On this occaision, my question, as I say was genuine and apologise if it sounded anything different.

BTW, I had a S*** day working in a hot kitchen for 12 hours :crying:

(y)
 
Firstly, I haven't read all the comments, I can imagine what's been discussed.

I'm not squeamish, I'm not bothered by dead people and if I saw a photo of someone decapitated, it wouldn't scare me for life...but...

I think this kind of image is one for its intended purpose and perhaps not a public forum.

Perhaps it is legal I don't know and frankly don't care but my opinion is as above, its perhaps not the most tasteful picture to put out in the public.

Strangely enough, my first thoughts upon looking at the image were, "why are his feet so dirty?" Lol
 
I like taking photos of graveyards and headstones. while doing it I often wonder whether I might be offending folk visiting their loved one's last resting place. The graves I cover are very old so I doubt whether any immediate relatives are left

on another note - I never see objections to photos of mummies, they even put them on display in museums. These are dead people too. Perhaps it's related to time?
 
sturisoma said:
I like taking photos of graveyards and headstones. while doing it I often wonder whether I might be offending folk visiting their loved one's last resting place. The graves I cover are very old so I doubt whether any immediate relatives are left

on another note - I never see objections to photos of mummies, they even put them on display in museums. These are dead people too. Perhaps it's related to time?
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I would be pleased if someone could find beauty in my head stone, (not that i have one yet lol) ;)
 
Slightly surprised that this thread has come back again, except to note that at least two posters appear to be here just to continue an argument that was dead and buried (pardon the pun) months ago.

A reminder to all to keep it civil, I don't want to see a re-run of the comments posted last time around.

As for TP's stance on whether it should be posted here or not.
I'll reiterate that we're not about to start censoring images. As long as the content is legal, relevant permissions have been sought and the imagery isn't too graphic or explicit then it's acceptable to post.

This type of thread is going to provoke opinions and that's fine - just think about how you express those opinions before hitting the "submit" button.
 
I didn't say I found beauty in headstones...not all photos are about beauty - gritty reality; dark and mysterious; thought provoking; telling a story; informing; recording life etc
 
On the Huh said:
Kris...
Not patronising, genuine question! :shrug:
Thanks for the reply...I think? I say that as your last paragraph sounds a little bit defensive?

Lots of threads include debating, some get argumentive. On this occaision, my question, as I say was genuine and apologise if it sounded anything different.

BTW, I had a S*** day working in a hot kitchen for 12 hours :crying:

(y)
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I am a pastry chef/baker so I genuinely know your pain. :)

I want being shirty with you, but recently in the crit section people have been so contradictory and argumentative. I've had to defend almost everything that was beyond 'nice pic'. No worries fella. :)
 
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