One of the A-level/Uni folks

ryanyboy

ryanyboy

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Morning all,

My other-half's 15 year old daughter is planning her future in terms of education and I'm trying get some decent advice for her.

She wants to be a photographer when she's older (obviously because I make it look so easy. Ahem!!). She wants to study photography at Uni but is getting conflicting advice from the school about what A-levels she should take first.

So, can anyone advise me please as to what A-levels Annabel should be thinking of studying in order to give herself the best possible chance of going on to do a photography degree?

I'd advise her myself but being a fen boy I left shool at 11 to go and drive combine harvesters.........
 
Best thing to do Ryan is have a look at some of the degree courses available and the entry requirements. Some of the degree courses out there are better than others in terms of reputation. I have heard that Blackpool (for instance) has a very good reputation and I know one lady who studies there because of the reputation but thought the course was pants! lol

So a little bit of homework is required on which are the good ones and work backwards :)
 
I doubt there is a photo a level course so I would go with a levels she feels she would enjoy and do well at. I am sure that if she meets the grade requirements she will be fine.

How many of us work in areas we studied in or wanted to do at 15? When she is 25 she may be doing something completely different! So if she has done well in a levels she likes and/or are useful she should be fine!
 
Hi Ryan There are a selection of courses at A level she could apply for. There is the photography A level which will cover History of photography, Principals of film including use of manual film cameras developing and printing. The course should also cover digital photography and photo manipulation It is project based with a final project at the end of year 2. Colleges will tend to offer slightly different courses dependant on the tutors-so go and have a chat at the open days. There is a lens-based course which differs in the respect that video animation and computers are also included, (if desired) Most Universities that offer photography would require photography or art at A level, or a very strong portfolio. Good luck to the young lady and I hope she finds the course she wants. Rob
 
Hi Ryan, firstly I think she should pick up a photography A level. Ideally this would be a bespoke photography course like Feek mentions but I find most schools run the Applied Art A level with Photography as the medium and then call it Photography. Once she has chosen that then she will need to choose a broad curriculum, either 2 or 3 other AS levels. An alternative might be to look at a level 3 BTEC in photography, if the school offer one. I would not recommend the new creative and media diploma if it is offered. If you have a web address of the school, I could look at their post 16 provision and offer further advice. Or drop me an email - I am a 6th form tutor so am used to providing advice on courses.

Spooks
 
A-Level Maths. Can never go wrong with that. It's getting easier every year too so not too much to worry about :p

Extra to whatever A-Levels she chooses, I am under the impression that she should also be trying to get together a decent portfolio over the next year or so to take to interviews. Particularly if A-Level photography isn't on offer where she is (and the only reason to take it if it is available is for the purpose of getting together a portfolio).
 
mustanir said:
A-Level Maths. Can never go wrong with that
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:agree:

Although now she's dead set on photography, it always looks good if she decides to have a go at something else later on in life too! Having (nearly) finished uni, and done all the job application stuff, it's amazing how many of them want maths!

As for the photography side of it, I can't really help, there seems to be so much choice out there. I'd suggest just going to as many possible open days etc as possible. One of the unis I was thinking of applying to had a fantastic course, great reputation....so I visited and absolutely hated the place!

Good luck, it's a minefield out there, but put enough time in and you'll find something perfect eventually!!!
 
My suggestion would be to consider the final employment destination's requirement for qualifications.

Take a look at what employers are currently asking for - is it a degree or a NVQ or what?
 
My advice would be work backwards.
Where/ what does she want to be and what does she need to get there.

From my time at Uni, and the pre planning on where to go, visiting the Uni helps as well as talking to the Uni.

The course she wants to do will have entrance requirements. Her A-Level selection, and if necessary a portfolio, should align with these requirements or she may struggle to be considered.
 
I did a Photography A-Level alongside my BTEC, its a good learning path although since I'd already been fiddling with cameras for 4-5 years prior, it was very much just learning what I already knew and going over it again for 2 years.
 
I'd recommend A-Level in English, and if they have it, to do A-level Photography. It is getting harder to get into uni courses. Tell her to work bloody hard at the English because a Photography degree is 40% pictures, 60% Art Theory and essay writing (Well mine was) Also, they will look at a portfolio, so encourage her to build up a body of work, rather than individual images, and also work at doing proposals for bodies of work. Buy a nice portfolio (SilverPrint/The London Graphic centre) If you want to know more pm me and I'll give you more info. However it might not be today, as I'm off out!
 
I don't know what they teach at Uni but we had someone use the studio last week, in her second year of a photography degree who didn't understand even the basics of how a camera worked. This has not been the only case! Shooting Av with studio lights and asking why the shots were blown! I'm not saying a degree isn't good but maybe something a bit more practical before Uni so she has a solid understanding of the basics.
 
Dave Stone said:
I don't know what they teach at Uni but we had someone use the studio last week, in her second year of a photography degree who didn't understand even the basics of how a camera worked. This has not been the only case! Shooting Av with studio lights and asking why the shots were blown! I'm not saying a degree isn't good but maybe something a bit more practical before Uni so she has a solid understanding of the basics.
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It is assumed that by degree stage you should know how to use your camera. The basics were taught in my course in the first semester, but because all of us knew it already, they scrapped it for us.

Edit: We were taught digital back Mamiya and Large format - not DSLR
 
I wish I'd done business studies :D

photography/art

whatever she's good at in a fairly classic subject - english/maths/a science to ground the A levels
 
If she's planning to set-up as a tog on her own then something like accountancy or possibly marketing might be more helpful practically than business studies (from what I remember that was more focussed on management/hr issues but I might be wrong).

Also as we're not going to be throwing them in the bin any time soon, some sort of practical computer imaging type course (for building up the photoshop skills), but I don't know what's on offer in that regard.

Otherwise I would echo the other advice on here to contact the admissions staff at the universities offering the course and ask them directly what they will be looking for in their 2012/13 intake.

Matt
 
Maths and English in case she changes her mind and maybe a science or language too

My daughter was all set on doing statistics, even had the offer from LSE and then decided at the last minute that she really wanted to be an Optometrist
Lucky they took her Maths and Further Maths A levels as sciences because the History didn't help much

Reckons it was the best decision she has ever made and personally think 15 is a bit young to be sure so insurance is always handy.
 
I'd urge against taking an arts degree, there were 10,000 photography graduates last year (according to the BJP) and I'd seriously doubt that there are even 1000 suitable vacanices. Same goes for the likes of Business Studies or Marketing - a Marketing degree in particular is a total waste of time....
 
TEN THOUSAND photography graduates in one year? Jeeeeezus.

I wonder, generally, what the actual up take is of graduates into the professions for which they have got degrees in?
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I'd urge against taking an arts degree, there were 10,000 photography graduates last year (according to the BJP) and I'd seriously doubt that there are even 1000 suitable vacanices. Same goes for the likes of Business Studies or Marketing - a Marketing degree in particular is a total waste of time....
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and if you do, do a vocational degree, rather than pure 'photography'.

It all depends what you want from your degree and education really, but the applied courses that are out there (Derby's commercial photography BA has good commercial grounding), but at the end of the day, it's all about what people put in. There are a lot of those photography graduates who take a, uh, less than dedicated attitude towards their goal, if they even have the goal, of becoming a full time professional after graduation.

Ryan, if your partner's daughter wants to go to uni to do photography (which in many ways is not at all a bad thing), then a portfolio of good, clean, crisp, _commercial_ quality photos will really stand out to the admissions lecturers, rather than a more 'fine art' approach and portfolio.

Some things that may be heard from other parents are along the lines of 'well she takes these photos and you kind of... rotate them round and round, but still can't see it, and ask 'what is it of'' - universities care about the quality of their graduates, and the work that their graduates go on to do is one way that universities are measured, so they are keen on people who have demonstrable skill in producing a high quality, commercially relevant photo, rather than a black and white blur with a caption describing how it represents the soul :p

Get her shooting with you, or even without you but an equally dedicated friend, concept ideas, hell, budget some shoots with her (a £30ish budget for a well concepted shoot will go a long way - I used to regularly shoot fashion where we'd give ourselves £10 to spend in charity shops to outfit the models- did get strange looks buying women's clothing, but y'know...), get models in and shoot a cool concept. You'll both get a good portfolio image out of it. If she needs a particular piece of kit, she could even use yours(!) :p

Outside of this portfolio of good images, good knowledge of the photo industry and 'greats', A levels probably do not matter *too* much at this stage, however if she has any changes of heart or similar, then they may be useful to demonstrate a wider range of skills. Maths is always a good one, if she can stomach it. I did maths, computer science and physics, and my head still hurts from it ;)
 
I got into the my current degree with a portfolio so I cant say much for A levels. But you have some sound advice above. You cant really go wrong with english, maths, etc and maybe art and design too?

I dont see anything wrong with an arts degree if that is what she really wants to do. Its better to do something you are passionate about than something that seems practical at the time. I didnt start uni until I was 23 as I hadnt a clue what I wanted to do when I left school and I always think there should be a break between high school and further education so that kids can figure out what they want to do.

Her portfolio will depend on the course. If you do a more commercial based course then techincal, graphical images will suit. If she decides to pick an art school then a more project and theory based portfolio will do more for her than a technically accurate one.

Either way she is off to a good start with you around to show her the basics (y)
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I think nowadays most universities will take anyone who can come up with the funding, quality doesn't really come in to the equation...
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But quality should matter if the applicant wants to be anything other than yet another graduate with a 2:2/2:1 and little in the way of career.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I think nowadays most universities will take anyone who can come up with the funding, quality doesn't really come in to the equation...
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I cant really disagree with that. But quality will matter when they graduate (and some of the worst ones do) when they come out with a rubbish portfolio and most importantly no drive.
 
I thought there were a lot less places than applicants and thought most people had the funding via student loans
 
chris321 said:
:agree:

Although now she's dead set on photography, it always looks good if she decides to have a go at something else later on in life too! Having (nearly) finished uni, and done all the job application stuff, it's amazing how many of them want maths!
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Maths is still useful for photography. Calculating exposure values, etc.

She could go for Physics too, for a better understanding of the technical side of light. :)
 
ryanyboy said:
Morning all,

My other-half's 15 year old daughter is planning her future in terms of education and I'm trying get some decent advice for her.

She wants to be a photographer when she's older (obviously because I make it look so easy. Ahem!!). She wants to study photography at Uni but is getting conflicting advice from the school about what A-levels she should take first.

So, can anyone advise me please as to what A-levels Annabel should be thinking of studying in order to give herself the best possible chance of going on to do a photography degree?

I'd advise her myself but being a fen boy I left shool at 11 to go and drive combine harvesters.........
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Hi Ryan, I'm a fresh faced 19 year old so I thought I'd pitch in. :LOL: If her college offer it, Photography is obviously a probably going to be top of the list. Otherwise photography can sometimes be covered within Art/Graphics, or she could even sit both if she's particularly creative. For her other choices I'd say whatever she is good at. Any self-respecting university will always look at the grade of a subject, rather than any tangible relevance it may have, e.g. an A grade in English carrying more weight than a B in Maths, even though Maths could be seen as more useful in Photography.

I would however say that it is still possible to maintain a very strong interest in photography outside of studying it. I currently study History and Russian (!) at University College London but have plenty of time to pursue photography. The stat of there being more people studying photography in the UK than there are professional photographers is often banded about but I think it's a mute point!
 
I would say do art or if the college has it photography, I'm 20 doing photography at college because I didn't take art in school and uni wouldnt let me in without prior studies in relevant subjects :( (I dropped out of IT to do photography), so I've started from 0 even though the first year at college didnt really teach me anything I didn't already know, I'm now about to start my last of the 2 year HNC..
If I could go back and change things I would've never wasted all those years doing IT and not art =/
 
Yeah, tell her to do something that would help her get a job outside of photography. I did Geography cos I enjoyed it, and business studies to get a job. Was really usefull when I started my graduate job with a car hire company. It meant I could work out how to get to the customer and also do the paperwork when I arrived.
 
Judging by what I read in the news etc, it seems to be getting harder to get into a good University to get a good degree (and what I mean by a good degree is something different to the likes of the 'drama with Norweigan studies' type degrees). I'm a bit old school about this stuff though (although I'm not old - I graduated in 2000).

I think there are three camps - i) those who just want to go University, and will do just about anything, anywhere; ii) those who go to Uni and choose something that they think will stand them in good stead; and iii) those who go and do something that they actually want to do for the love and/or interest of the subject. The degrees in the latter two categories may or may not be these 'noddy' degrees as I call them, but at least some thought has gone into the decision, perhaps as far as determining how the degree will impact on the person's future.

From experience, I would suggest that the single most important thing is to do something that you enjoy/like, or that you actually want to do rather than something you think you should do - the upshot of that will be that you will generally do better as it's not going to be a chore (and nine times out of 10, those things you enjoy, you will generally do well in). This usually means that people who come out of the machine from the first two categories can end up with degrees which are either 'worthless' (in terms of subject-matter, or becuase they went to "Bognor Regis International Academy" for example, ie a less than credible institution, not wishing to impugn such a place if it does actually exist of course!), or are not very good in terms of classification (for example, the news recently reported that employers are looking for a minimum of a 2,1 now, although it failed to indicate that a 2,1 in one discipline may be far superior to a 1st in another of course).

So, my advice, pick subjects that she enjoys. Seemingly, photography will be far less sensitive to the exact subjects at A-level than other degrees, and 4 good grades, rather than 3 shoddy ones in Maths, Physics etc if that's not her forte could be better. I should add the caveat that (as some other have pointed out), it makes obvious sense to check the entry requirements of some exemplary degree courses - they may have specific requirements, but my expectation would be that they would more likely require 3/4 good grades at A-level (if that) + portfolio, rather than A's in Maths, Physics etc. If the former is the case (that there are specifc requirements), then that makes the decision really as she'd have to do what is required to get in. Whether she does well in such circumstances is really more of a question of whether those subjects appeal to her, or whether she has a natural aptitude for them. If they don't, or she isn't, it'll be tough, and conseqeuntly her grades may suffer which means those who did rather well will get the places, assuming they're limited.

I can see the point that Maths in particular would be useful to open up more options, but it would most certainly be overkill for photography (unless she really enjoys it, and *wants* to do it) - I did it, and enjoyed it (and Phyics), but there's no way I would have done them if I wasn't any good at them becuase it would have just been a waste of everyone's time considering how many other people would have come out with superior grades and gobbled up all the Physics degree places. Incidentally, this is how I got through the system - I just did what I liked. I was lucky though, because what I liked happened to be something that most don't (or rather can't) choose becuase it's a) not easy to get into, and b) it's hard to do. What I did afterwards did not enter into the equation. I still think there's a place for some thought about what you might like to do, but deriving your choices solely on that basis if those choices will make you struggle might not be the best option.
 
Some perspective from a father who's daughter has just finished her first year at Uni.

My daughter took Photography A level, plus 2 others. We visited a lot of different colleges and she was offered places at all of the ones she applied to.

Some of the colleges she looked at such as Brighton and Norwich wanted her to take a foundation year first, but as she already knew that she wanted to do photography (and had taken the A level) she decided to not apply to those.

She decided to go to Newport to take Documentary photography, the course teaches them a lot of skills in actually creating their own work and building relationships with their subjects. I don't know if it will stand her in good stead for employment at the end but I think it's important for her development to go to Uni and mature her outlook.

Personally I think that some of the more pure "art" photography courses do not give sufficient direction and tutoring. I'm also staggered at the importance the lecturers give to film, I understand that it's a great skill and teaches you a lot but in the real world this is not really an option.

I took a Scientific photography degree at the old Poly of Central London (now University of Westminster) and I hated it. The scientific stuff had no relation with photography, I mean how many times have you need to know about atomic physics and organic chemistry as a photographer!

The most important thing is to pick A levels she likes (one of which should be art or Photography), get a great portfolio together and visit colleges as soon as you can when they have open days and final year shows to see what the students and environment is really like.
 
kickstart said:
The most important thing is to pick A levels she likes (one of which should be art or Photography), get a great portfolio together and visit colleges as soon as you can when they have open days and final year shows to see what the students and environment is really like.
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That sounds like excellent advice to me.
 
chris321 said:
I'm also staggered at the importance the lecturers give to film, I understand that it's a great skill and teaches you a lot but in the real world this is not really an option.
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Shooting film, with the limited number of exposures, and cost/time/hassle of development and printing forces you to think more about what you're doing while you're learning.

I don't think they're saying "film is god, all must bow down to film", just using it simply to illustrate that it's not all about the camera, and what its auto modes might be able to do for you, or that it's about snapping away and taking 500 shots to get 1 that you're happy with.
 
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