Petition Against Rights Grabbing Clauses

Metal God

Metal God

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My apologies if this has already been posted here.

Someone has started a Petition on the No10 website to ban rights grabbing clauses in photo competitions.

If you care about competition promoters trying to take your intellectual property rights away from you and making money out of your talent (whilst you don't get a penny), why not sign this petition?

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/PhotoCompetition/
 
Perhaps but how do you get that out to the masses that dont really understand why it matters?
 
Brooksy said:
I do agree with this, but do these petitions ever get a result?
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Only if they are popular enough for Gordon to think it might make him popular.

I guess that's why Alan Turing recently got a mention...

So this obviously needs rewording to say,

"Little orphan, disabled, widower of a soldier killed in Afganistan, Annie, currently dying from an incurable disease, is dismayed that her images that she planned to leave to her daughter is having the rights stolen by..."


Cynical, moi?
 
Is it actually up to the government to define what these organisations can and cannot put in their T&Cs? You are within your rights to sign over your copyright or grand permission for others to use them. People aren't forcing you to do this. You have the option to not enter.
 
The Matt said:
Is it actually up to the government to define what these organisations can and cannot put in their T&Cs? You are within your rights to sign over your copyright or grand permission for others to use them. People aren't forcing you to do this. You have the option to not enter.
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Exactly. Don't agree, don't enter. It's not your right to enter afterall.
 
I don't see what the problem is on this one. If you are a professional tog then OK, but as an amateur what is the problem?

So you enter a competition that wants for example a photo of Wales and you win and you expect before they put your photo in any publication they have to get your written permission. Not really going to happen is it, will just mean less competitions for people to enter.

As has already been said if it worries you so much don't enter the competition.
 
jerry12953 said:
Typical.

Trying to get photographers to act together on something that affects them all is like herding cats.

Impossible.
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I don't know, the I AM NOT A TERRORIST group is doing ok!

People don't believe that this petition will achieve anything, that's the problem, not that they think what some companies are doing.

The best way to combat it though would be a photography competition website, one that lists competitions to enter and ones to avoid, or at least tells you which ones want copyright etc.

This way people have a choice. We are all guilty of not reading terms and conditions when entering comps, its part of human nature and because they are usually written in double dutch. But at least this way it can be made nice and clear for people.
 
None of these competitions "grab" your rights, AFAIK. You give them up, or transfer some or all of them by entering. This is voluntary, and you're not under any sort of compulsion.

Let's not encourage the government to meddle in something else that doesn't concern them in the least.
 
The only reason most of the competitions are run is for a company to get a big stock of photo's for very little money. If it were made illegal the competitions wouldn't be run, if you don't want them having image rights don't enter and leave it for those who don't mind!
 
I popped into Helios yesterday (National Trust HQ in Swindon) as they have a good coffee shop. I noticed they have another photography competition.

Now these have been accussed of rights grabbing in the past so I checked the terms and conditions...

http://myphoto.nationaltrust.org.uk/terms-and-conditions

Entrants will retain copyright and moral rights in their submitted images however, by entering, all entrants.

1. Grant the National Trust limited, non-exclusive rights to use the images to promote the competition the images were submitted to, or for similar future competitions within a five year period of the winners being announced for the competition that the images concerned were submitted to
2. Grant TNL non-exclusive rights to edit, publish and use each entry to promote this competition which may include an online gallery or feature in the Sunday Times or Sunday Times Magazine, or similar future competition, during the competition and for a period of 24 months after the winners have been announced.
3. In each case the photographer will always be credited whenever the image is used and published by the National Trust or TNL.

So a little better - just 5 years this time.

3604 entries though!
http://myphoto.nationaltrust.org.uk/entries/recent/page/1
 
jerry12953 said:
But it was "THE GOVERNMENT" that was responsible for the 1989 Copyright Act which, despite its faults, is what gives us our copyright now!

I understand there is a review of the Act going on at the moment.

The website referred to above is www.copyrightaction.com
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Sorry agree with the others, this is not a copyright issue, it's a matter of choice.
We don't need the government to intervene on this, there is enough nanny state as it is.
 
Byker28i said:
I popped into Helios yesterday (National Trust HQ in Swindon) as they have a good coffee shop. I noticed they have another photography competition.

Now these have been accussed of rights grabbing in the past so I checked the terms and conditions...

http://myphoto.nationaltrust.org.uk/terms-and-conditions

Entrants will retain copyright and moral rights in their submitted images however, by entering, all entrants.

1. Grant the National Trust limited, non-exclusive rights to use the images to promote the competition the images were submitted to, or for similar future competitions within a five year period of the winners being announced for the competition that the images concerned were submitted to
2. Grant TNL non-exclusive rights to edit, publish and use each entry to promote this competition which may include an online gallery or feature in the Sunday Times or Sunday Times Magazine, or similar future competition, during the competition and for a period of 24 months after the winners have been announced.
3. In each case the photographer will always be credited whenever the image is used and published by the National Trust or TNL.

So a little better - just 5 years this time.

3604 entries though!
http://myphoto.nationaltrust.org.uk/entries/recent/page/1
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The 'licence' you give them by entering is restriced to promotion of the competition (or similar photo competitions) and mandates a credit.
It does not give them the right to sell copies of your work.
You maintain copyright and can still sell your work.

This sounds fair to me - it's a bit like the standard agreement to allow a picture of you to be used for promotion / publicity that is common to many large 'competitions'.
 
PsiFox said:
Sorry agree with the others, this is not a copyright issue, it's a matter of choice.
We don't need the government to intervene on this, there is enough nanny state as it is.
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But if, twenty-five years ago, photographers were asked to lobby the government for a Copyright Act to protect their rights, would their answer have been the same?

Sometimes the "nanny state" can be a good thing..... I'm sure we can all think of some examples.
 
MartynK said:
None of these competitions "grab" your rights, AFAIK. You give them up, or transfer some or all of them by entering. This is voluntary, and you're not under any sort of compulsion.

Let's not encourage the government to meddle in something else that doesn't concern them in the least.
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I suppose, strictly speaking, these competitions are not a "copyright grab". Doesn't the phrase refer to the situation where a freelance cannot be employed if s/he refuses to hand over copyright?

But they are still the means whereby a company or organisation can get hold of pictures for free. And the relevant phrase is usually buried amongst acres of small print.

Unethical? I'd say so.

And please see my post above about the Copyright Act.
 
Byker28i said:
I popped into Helios yesterday (National Trust HQ in Swindon) as they have a good coffee shop. I noticed they have another photography competition.

Now these have been accussed of rights grabbing in the past so I checked the terms and conditions...

http://myphoto.nationaltrust.org.uk/terms-and-conditions

Entrants will retain copyright and moral rights in their submitted images however, by entering, all entrants.

1. Grant the National Trust limited, non-exclusive rights to use the images to promote the competition the images were submitted to, or for similar future competitions within a five year period of the winners being announced for the competition that the images concerned were submitted to
2. Grant TNL non-exclusive rights to edit, publish and use each entry to promote this competition which may include an online gallery or feature in the Sunday Times or Sunday Times Magazine, or similar future competition, during the competition and for a period of 24 months after the winners have been announced.
3. In each case the photographer will always be credited whenever the image is used and published by the National Trust or TNL.

So a little better - just 5 years this time.

3604 entries though!
http://myphoto.nationaltrust.org.uk/entries/recent/page/1
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It is better. But five years is a hell of a long time.
 
jerry12953 said:
But if, twenty-five years ago, photographers were asked to lobby the government for a Copyright Act to protect their rights, would their answer have been the same?

Sometimes the "nanny state" can be a good thing..... I'm sure we can all think of some examples.
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Ah but that was to do with protecting livelihood, the competition entry is voluntary you have a choice.
 
Steve Smith said:
They already had one. Copyrights have existed longer than twenty five years.

http://www.lawdit.co.uk/reading_roo...name=../articles/The History of Copyright.htm


Steve.
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I wasn't aware of the history and to be honest I haven't got time to read it at the moment!

My point is that photographers seem to be their own worst enemy when it comes to protecting their rights. It seems just about impossible for them to work together to prevent injustices which affects (or could affect) them all.

Most users of photographs know this too, and that's why they continually find new ways of obtaining what they want for nothing, or very little - whether it be an image or the copyright on an image.
 
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