Phone camera why not?

camerajamie

camerajamie

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As phone cameras improve every year the need for a dedicated camera decreases, especially for the budget conscious amateur photographer. I want to know what would a phone camera need to do for everyone to get rid of their expensive camera and just use a phone camera?
 
For me the limitation is lens and sensor size. Better longer range lens and a bigger sensor and they'd be closer.
 
When they become what I need for it to totally replace my camera, they become a traditional camera.

Camera like handling/ergonomics, variable apertures, quality interchangeable glass, large sensor image quality in challenging conditions etc etc.

My phone is great for snaps and casual stuff but I can't ever see it being my primary hobby photography device without it fully diverging into something resembling what a high end interchangeable lens camera looks like today, which would kill its ingenious jack of all trades convenience.

I listen to podcasts on my phone, but if I'm listening to music I use my portable high end DAP and some decent headphones. I'm choosing quality and experience over convenience. I think there'll always be a market for both, however with the continued technological improvement in computational photography, phones may continue to eat up the casual photography market and start to eat into mid range.
 
I'd always rather have both a camera and a phone rather than an all in one solution. If a phone runs out of battery and it's your only means of taking pictures, you're stuffed.
 
benc98 said:
Apart from photos of receipts and other things to remind myself of later.. I don't really make photos using my phone. I think it's a user experience thing, I just don't enjoy it
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What is it about the user experience that you don't like with phone photography? Just wondering after so much money has been invested by these massive companies (Apple, google) to make phone photography just as good as a proper cameras in terms of user experience and end product.
 
camerajamie said:
If this was effectively done would you consider selling your main camera? or what would be holding you back?
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Yes, to buy a phone small enough to fit in my pocket!

Modern smart phones are a great "jack of all trades", they do enough of everything for most people, but sometimes there are things that you place more importance on, e.g. photography, or typing where a dedicated tool is required to do the job.

It is like saying to a pilot - "would you consider trading in your radio, navigation system and instruments, as your phone can do all of those things"...
 
camerajamie said:
As phone cameras improve every year the need for a dedicated camera decreases, especially for the budget conscious amateur photographer. I want to know what would a phone camera need to do for everyone to get rid of their expensive camera and just use a phone camera?
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It would need to be the size and shape of a conventional camera. What we use now has been developed over decades to handle well and take good pictures. Even if a phone could create images with all the same aesthetics and qualities as a conventional camera, it would still handle like a phone.
 
camerajamie said:
What is it about the user experience that you don't like with phone photography? Just wondering after so much money has been invested by these massive companies (Apple, google) to make phone photography just as good as a proper cameras in terms of user experience and end product.
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Think about how you hold a camera to take a picture. Now think about how you hold a phone to do the same. Why would you ever choose a phone over a camera?
 
camerajamie said:
What is it about the user experience that you don't like with phone photography? Just wondering after so much money has been invested by these massive companies (Apple, google) to make phone photography just as good as a proper cameras in terms of user experience and end product.
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But it’s not.
Phone ‘photos’ owe more to AI than they do to photography. To photo graph is to draw or paint with light. My phone camera is great for capturing snaps when I haven’t got my camera (or sometimes when I have) but the sensor size is so small that I can’t genuinely control the DoF. So it fakes that ‘look’ but if I look at images on anything bigger than the phone screen it looks terrible.

As above in order to create the images I want, I need a larger sensor, the larger sensor requires larger lenses, the larger lenses require a certain distance from the sensor, so now the big camera body and lens become slightly unstable held at arms length between the fingers, so I really need a viewfinder and a decent grip. Now we’re here, I could do with the controls I need to be readily available. So now we’ve arrived at precisely what I own now. A comfortable ergonomic full frame mirrorless camera. :)
 
Topsy said:
There you are, phone on a tripod composition framed up waiting for that perfect light and it rings. You answer ir and 10 minutes later you finish the call and look back to your composition it is nowgone, light is awful moment lost.
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Whilst I tend to agree - I have got my iPhone set up to go into "Do not disturb" mode when I open Lightroom to avoid this situation.
 
Craikeybaby said:
Whilst I tend to agree - I have got my iPhone set up to go into "Do not disturb" mode when I open Lightroom to avoid this situation.
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Can you do that in camera mode too? I don't have an iPhone just an ordinary Android and TBH wouldn't know if mine can do that or not. BTW my post was a bit toungue in cheek I can't imagine setting a phone up on a tripod etc.
 
@Phil V sums it up quite well. For web, Insta, email, Whatsapp etc. and indeed when blown up a little and printed the results are fine. The real issue is that much of the output depends on software not optics and the software introduces artefacts which become obvious at larger sizes.

That said I do use my phone for serious photography because it is very portable and the software is good in low light, it might have been optimised for taking selfies in dimly lit restaurants and nightclubs but it works equally well in other situation that have poor light and strong contrast.

PXL_20230812_141447901.NIGHT.jpg
 
Topsy said:
Can you do that in camera mode too? I don't have an iPhone just an ordinary Android and TBH wouldn't know if mine can do that or not. BTW my post was a bit toungue in cheek I can't imagine setting a phone up on a tripod etc.
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It can be used for any app. I would be surprised if that feature is not also available on Android.

My Peak Design tripod came with a phone adaptor built in to it, which I have never used, nor am likely to use...
 
My phone can open and edit spreadsheets - but it can't handle powerful queries of hundreds of thousands of rows like my laptop can.
My phone can play games - but not like the latest console or gaming PC driving multiple monitors.
My phone can play music - but it doesn't sound like my record deck
Why then would I believe that it can take pictures as well as a camera?
 
Like me, a phone can do lots of things, some of them reasonably well but none as well as a good professional ("proper" camera).
 
camerajamie said:
What is it about the user experience that you don't like with phone photography? Just wondering after so much money has been invested by these massive companies (Apple, google) to make phone photography just as good as a proper cameras in terms of user experience and end product.
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I think the investment made by apple/google etc.. has mostly been in AI and computational photography. I'm not sure if they're making the same level of investment in camera hardware, lenses, sensors, etc..

I just prefer my M11 or array of film cameras, e.g. Pentax K1000, Bronica ETRSi, Mamiya C330 - why would I choose to use my phone :)
 
I do now consider my phone (Galaxy S22 Ultra) to be a useful piece of photographic kit - I take a lot of 'environment' shots when photographing wildlife with my phone.

As noted above, it's also great for quick shots in difficult light:
20221118_124416.jpg

However the technology is a long way from replacing my 'proper' camera's for wildlife and motorsport photography....these pictures, both taken using a 400mm lens...just not possible with a 'phone.

Smoke and flames2.jpg2R4C9902.jpg
 
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ancient_mariner said:
Think about how you hold a camera to take a picture. Now think about how you hold a phone to do the same. Why would you ever choose a phone over a camera?
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I see plenty of people taking photos with their ‘proper cameras’ like they would with a phone.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Think about how you hold a camera to take a picture. Now think about how you hold a phone to do the same. Why would you ever choose a phone over a camera?
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because more often than not, you have a phone with you, and less frequently - a camera.
 
One thing that doesn't get much consideration in these discussions are the "pads".

Leaving aside the question of "image quality" for the moment, they should be great compositional tools, with those huge screens...

iPad in hand camera TZ70 P1030655.JPG
 
camerajamie said:
As phone cameras improve every year the need for a dedicated camera decreases, especially for the budget conscious amateur photographer. I want to know what would a phone camera need to do for everyone to get rid of their expensive camera and just use a phone camera?
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I think that point was passed long ago for almost everyone but dedicated enthusiasts. But, for general photography if someone builds a phone with at least an M4/3 sensor, variable aperture and useable manual controls then I would use that for a lot of everyday photography. But then it would be a small camera that happened to be a phone as well. At the end of the day 99% of people just want to push a button and get a nice photo, without worrying about shutter speed, aperture, white balance etc. Modern phones do that very well.

benc98 said:
I think the investment made by apple/google etc.. has mostly been in AI and computational photography. I'm not sure if they're making the same level of investment in camera hardware, lenses, sensors, etc..

I just prefer my M11 or array of film cameras, e.g. Pentax K1000, Bronica ETRSi, Mamiya C330 - why would I choose to use my phone :)
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Sensor sizes have gone up recently, certainly in top end handsets. iPhones and most flagship Android phones have 1/1.3" sensors now, and there are several Android phones with 1" sensors now. But, you're approaching the physical limits of what can fit into a phone sized device, with associated lenses. Plus, bigger sensors mean bigger lenses and shallower DoF, which is forcing manufacturers to start including variable apertures. There is at least one Chinese Android phone with a 1" sensor and an aperture that can be switched from f/1,8 to f/4 to get more of the scene in focus
 
Graham W said:
I wasn't happy with the image quality from my 'phone so I made some adaptaitions. (As per my avatar).

View attachment 403631
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Nailed that one Graham.

I got a new phone last Christams, it's an I-Phone, I've never bothered about what model it is. I use it to make the odd call but mainly for texts and messenger and sometimes, browsing online. I've never really thought of it as a photographic tool, the camera on my previous phone wasn't great and I didn't expect this one to be much better. I have tried it and it is quite good though, maybe even close to a compact camera. It will never offer me what I need though, it can't do 600mm and whilst the image quality is OK, there's virtually no, useful cropability. I would also like more control for landscapes.

The phone camera is useful for helping with compositions in the landscape, I often do that before I set up my DSLR.

I do think phone cameras have their uses though and they are improving but unless there's some incredible break through in technology, I can't see me being without a full on camera.... or 3.
 
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It's not about the technical side of it for me; my iPhone takes excellent photos, and I do shoot with it when it's all I have on me; but the actual taking of the photo brings me no joy - whereas I love the whole process of shooting with my camera: how it feels in my hands, looking through the viewfinder rather than the back screen, the feel of the buttons and dials. Nothing could replace that for me.
 
camerajamie said:
What is it about the user experience that you don't like with phone photography? Just wondering after so much money has been invested by these massive companies (Apple, google) to make phone photography just as good as a proper cameras in terms of user experience and end product.
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If phone photography is just as good as a proper camera in terms of user experience and end product, then how do you explain the fact that professional photographers use camera equipment that costs more than a car?

When a mechanic repairs your car, he doesn't use a Swiss Army knife. He uses a range of tools that together cost thousands of pounds. It's the same logic as with photographic equipment. They do it for legitimate reasons. They don't do it to throw their money away.
 
I am quite happy to shoot on my phone day to day or even go out with a 35mm camera loaded with B&W film with the phone as a back up if I suddenly want to shoot colour. Granted most digital cameras can do colour and a reasonable mono conversion but phones do have other applications, the ultra wide angle on my iPhone is much wider than 11mm on APSC which I find useful. I also have a light meter app for the times when Sunny f/16 needs a quick check and the viewfinder app will let me frame a shot before changing lenses on the SLR, in my head I know what a 50mm or a 35mm can do, I am much less sure what the 25 or 18 will look like so a quick check on the phone helps.
I guess I don't really care what the format or technology is, the best camera in the world is the one in my hands at the time. The one I chose to pick up is often determined by how I felt before I left the house, did I want the tactile pleasure of my Leica M2, do I want the ease of use of a mirror less or do I just want to record my day with the phone.
 
The phone has certainly improved over the years but what would it have to do to replace my current gear?

Nothing.

Because I enjoy using my camera gear.
 
jakeblu said:
I see plenty of people taking photos with their ‘proper cameras’ like they would with a phone.
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It may well be that no-one ever explained why it is helpful to hold a camera in a particular way, so they just do what feels familiar.
 
Joeseph said:
because more often than not, you have a phone with you, and less frequently - a camera.
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But is that a choice or just an accident? Would you intentionally choose to go out to make a photograph with just your phone if you had more appropriate equipment available?
 
ancient_mariner said:
But is that a choice or just an accident? Would you intentionally choose to go out to make a photograph with just your phone if you had more appropriate equipment available?
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Yes. Sometimes it's impractical to take a dedicated camera, but I still want to capture the moment. I've done entire holidays using just my phone and been happy with the results. I usually take my camera, but not always.
 
RichardC27 said:
Yes. Sometimes it's impractical to take a dedicated camera, but I still want to capture the moment. I've done entire holidays using just my phone and been happy with the results. I usually take my camera, but not always.
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We're all different. :)

My present phone is the least bad of all I've owned, and while I do use it for snaps to email with immediacy or to record information, could not imagine using it for a photo that mattered. If I can't get a picture that I'm happy with then I would prefer not to take a picture at all than have a drive full of images that were disappointing and frustrating.
 
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