Photography in a public place

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149
Name
Nigel
Edit My Images
No
Hi got a query I could do with answering please.
I recently took some photos of a sailing event which I some people took interest of and I have the. A link where they could view the photos.
I contacted the club also to let them know and see if they wanted a copy of the photos.
They replied with a thanks but no thanks but have said I can come back if I want to do more from the banks but not on there clubhouse land without prior consent. They were more concerned that some of their junior members were photographed sailing without prior consent.
I have no problem about removing any photos to appease them but I believe that as they are in a public area I am within my right to publish these photos. Am I correct?
 
When you say, " publish these photos" if you mean for commercial gain I would guess you need there permission. If its just on say Flickr, then no you would not.
 
Were you on the clubhouse land without consent when you took these pictures? From your description it sounds as though you might have been. If you were the answer to your question may not be clear cut.

The concern about junior members thing is the 21st century paranoia that anyone with a camera (mobile phone cameras are ok for some reason) poiting it toward an area that might contain children is a paedophile manifesting itself it sounds like.
 
When you say, " publish these photos" if you mean for commercial gain I would guess you need their permission.
Why? Assuming he was on public land when he took the shots, they're his photographs to do with as he pleases.
 
Last edited:
The concern about junior members thing is the 21st century paranoia that anyone with a camera (mobile phone cameras are ok for some reason) poiting it toward an area that might contain children is a paedophile manifesting itself it sounds like.
:agree:

Juniors as mentioned in the OPs original post have parents who some time in the future may not want to find there child's image being published. So a courteous asking for permission may avoid a whole lot of trouble later.
 
:agree:

Juniors as mentioned in the OPs original post have parents who some time in the future may not want to find there child's image being published.
Tough

So a courteous asking for permission may avoid a whole lot of trouble later.
Indeed it may but is not technically required. But may be worth considering depending on scenario,
 
Hi got a query I could do with answering please.
I recently took some photos of a sailing event which I some people took interest of and I have the. A link where they could view the photos.
I contacted the club also to let them know and see if they wanted a copy of the photos.
They replied with a thanks but no thanks but have said I can come back if I want to do more from the banks but not on there clubhouse land without prior consent. They were more concerned that some of their junior members were photographed sailing without prior consent.
I have no problem about removing any photos to appease them but I believe that as they are in a public area I am within my right to publish these photos. Am I correct?


It depends, if you were truly on public property, then you are OK. But you don't give enough permission to ascertain this.

If you'd strayed onto their land, even if there was no fence, gate etc. then it could be trespass if you didn't have permission. Some park lands, roads etc. may have public rights of access but this doesn't make them public places in the law and they may have restrictions inc. photo related. E.g. the Royal Parks in London have public access rights, but you still need a permit to take photos there.

As for the bit about parents being upset etc., legally they have no leg to stand on.
 
The sailing club have confirmed that it is public footpath/bank that they have no control over so I can take photos from there. I have replied back stating that I understand their concerns and as of that I have remove all photos including adults.
 
As for the bit about parents being upset etc., legally they have no leg to stand on.


They have not mentioned about any parents being upset. As a committee they were concerned that photos were on the internet of juniors in their club.

I wasn't after any hassle just offered them to the club for them to use as promotion/website use
 
Although taking photos of people's children and publishing them without the permission of their parents is, at least morally wrong, if not legally wrong.

Whilst matters of law are definites, morals are merely the opinions of people and will vary from person to person.


Steve.
 
Although taking photos of people's children and publishing them without the permission of their parents is, at least morally wrong,

I didn't go out with the intention to photograph people's children, I went to photograph the sailing some sports action shots.
At the time ilI didn't notice any children. These said children would be mid to late teens at a guess and with all the sailing gear on its hard to guess there age as well
 
This often causes quite a sticky mess for people - who's rights stand where. I have to agree that in this day and age I think certain people are a lot more wary of photos being taken of children (either directly or indirectly) by strangers and is often frowned upon by those people. It is understandable in regards to some of the media coverage we have had lately but is also incredibly frustrating to those innocent parties who just want to capture the event not necessarily the people in it. I think its also a cultural thing as well from what I understand photographers are more prevalent in the far east for example and in some cases ignored to be allowed to snap what they want, whereas my experience here in the UK is that photographers can be thought of as being up to no good by again certain members especially in public places. I think in cases like this as silly as it may appear to some people it's just a case of doing your homework about the event and your right's before hand so not to come away disappointed by having your day spoilt.

It's interesting about having to have a permit to be able to photograph the royal parks in London - I've never realised this before, I wonder how the likes of tourists get on. It seems rather a strange and awkward thing to police.
 
You only need a permit for commercial photography in the Royal Parks. Anything personal/non profit doesn't need one
 
I think you also need one around Nelson's Column? Can anyone correct me if I am wrong?
Again for commercial purposes
 
Although taking photos of people's children and publishing them without the permission of their parents is, at least morally wrong, if not legally wrong.


Its neither.. your giving out whats commonly called.. Missinformation ...as for morals? don't they differ from person to person...

You say you've placed them on a website for other people to view, I assume the other people would be able to download them from there, I recently saw guidelines for clubs involved with children's sports where there were grave concerns about images of this nature being altered by paedophiles to show the children engaged in sexual acts.

More missinformation and now bordering on scaremongering... The info your refering to ..is to not place images on websites that can be so obviously changed to somehting more sinister.. not just a blanket no children






but if people are raising this as a legitimate concern then I would have to err on the side of caution and not put images on public sites

same here..


I looked into taking photos at league football matches recently as I'd started taking my camera to my local club games, and I've recently found out that the public is forbidden from taking any photos or video inside the stadiums when the players are on the pitch. The proffesional photographers who take pictures at matches don't even own the right to use their own photos.

eh? more missinformation.. its a licence system.. if you ahve alicence you can use and sell the pictures.. there are some restrictions.. but nothing like your suggesting

I recently took all the photos I've took at matches off my FB and Flickr pages just in case, there is a company employed by the football league to protect their copyright called dataco who have the reputation of wheel clampers for prosecution of copyright infringement.

show me one single case...they have a reputation for protecting fixture lists and making people pay... they will go after licenced photogrpahers who flaunt any rules... its up to the club where the pic was taken to take action over anyone photogrpahing.. not dataco


Anyway after all that waffle you're probably none the wiser, same as me. :eek:

missinformation, scaremongering and mostly just wrong :)
 
I didn't go out with the intention to photograph people's children, I went to photograph the sailing some sports action shots.
At the time ilI didn't notice any children. These said children would be mid to late teens at a guess and with all the sailing gear on its hard to guess there age as well


I really wouldnt worry about it.. if anyones upset then just remove the ones wiht children in.. its the club trying to be protective when its really not required.. your doing nothign wrong... you could go to another sailing club in a different town and they could welcome you with open arms and allow you to take pics of whoever you want... its all down to the people in charge and the way they see things thats all..
 
Its neither.. your giving out whats commonly called.. Missinformation ...as for morals? don't they differ from person to person...



More missinformation and now bordering on scaremongering... The info your refering to ..is to not place images on websites that can be so obviously changed to somehting more sinister.. not just a blanket no children








same here..




eh? more missinformation.. its a licence system.. if you ahve alicence you can use and sell the pictures.. there are some restrictions.. but nothing like your suggesting



show me one single case...they have a reputation for protecting fixture lists and making people pay... they will go after licenced photogrpahers who flaunt any rules... its up to the club where the pic was taken to take action over anyone photogrpahing.. not dataco




missinformation, scaremongering and mostly just wrong :)

I'm on the side of the photographer, I think some of it is way over the top, but if someone feels that way about having their children photographed and published on the internet then as a parent as well I think photographers should respect that.
I did say in my post that I was only just trying to get my head round it myself, I also said that common sense should used, ie there's a big difference between children in the background of a landscape scene and a 10 year old girl closely zoomed in at a swimming pool.
It's not scaremongering to say respect the wishes of the parents where the line between the two examples is blurred is it?
 
It's not scaremongering to say respect the wishes of the parents where the line between the two examples is blurred is it?

no its not.. BUT thats not what you said.. you tried to tell us that sports guidlines...blah blah.. pedofiles.. blah blah.. thats when i said scaremongering... so please dont attribute my comments to something different..

if your only just getting your head around it... and obvoiulsly dont understand.,. then why are you offering it as advice?
 
No I said I read it on a website of guidelines for children's sports clubs, it's obviously not my view.

I'm sorry I thought this was a forum, and that I was sharing what I'd read on different internet sites, how long do I have to have been taking photographs to be able to post on here?

With attitudes like yours I can see why photographers get such a reaction from the general public. If you want I'll delete my post and come back in a few years when I've gained your level of wisdom.
 
No I said I read it on a website of guidelines for children's sports clubs, it's obviously not my view.


BUT ITS NOT! As I already pointed out.. it does not say what you described.. It says not to place images that can be obviously changed.. it does not raise concerns about puting any pics of children online for pedophiles.. thats what you said..


With attitudes like yours I can see why photographers get such a reaction from the general public. If you want I'll delete my post and come back in a few years when I've gained your level of wisdom.

Your spouting missinformation.. I am correcting you.. if your not capable of learnign then yes... come back when you are ..
 
p*** mania strikes again!."LOOK there's one- get him he's got a camera that's kid's he photographing ,I bet he used to watch Jimmy Savile on Top Of The Pop's"."Get the noose let's hang him high!":runaway:
 
No I said I read it on a website of guidelines for children's sports clubs, it's obviously not my view.

I'm sorry I thought this was a forum, and that I was sharing what I'd read on different internet sites, how long do I have to have been taking photographs to be able to post on here?

With attitudes like yours I can see why photographers get such a reaction from the general public. If you want I'll delete my post and come back in a few years when I've gained your level of wisdom.

So you believe everything you read on a website ?,to me you are scaremongering by pasting on stuff which is basically rubbish :(
 
This is a question which comes around regularly and I defer to many on here who have far more knowledge and experience than I do; however I will give my 'perception', because I have become dismayed at something our children are losing on a daily basis.

The OP's question, so far as I can infer, asks about the legal situation with regard publishing and selling photos made in a public place. There is a subtext of sorts in that the question of photographing children is raised.

This question has a straight forward answer but with contextual and behavioural complications.

In the main it is not illegal to make photos anywhere. There are many who argue the case for 'photographers' rights' but 'photographers', be them working professionals or hobbyists, do not officially exist as an entity with which to have rights. It is the absence of legislation prohibiting photography which allows everyone to make photographs. There are locations and situations where photography is prohibited, but these are specific locations, invariably due to national security and situations usually involving human behaviour.

If you are in a public place nobody can specifically stop you making photographs. There is no presumption for privacy if you are in public and that applies to both adults and children. An individual's behaviour, or a group behaviour does not in itself bar you from making photographs; if someone for no clear reason throws off their clothes, smears themselves with marmite and runs down the street yelling, 'you either love me or you don't', they will have no case to prevent you making a photo of their behaviour, naked or otherwise.

If however, you photograph a specific individual in the street and that person asks you to stop, you should be careful as at that point a line has been drawn. You might chose to ignore the request and carry on, but it is a fine line now between potentially legal and illegal.

You run the risk of being charged by the police with harassment or maybe a breach of the peace. My understanding is that you can't be charged per se with an act of photography but rather the former two offences. For harassment to stick, your subject should have asked you to stop several times and for your behaviour to make any reasonable person feel harassed. They should also be the subject. If they are simply one person among several or many in a street scene, harassment probably wouldn't be supported.

There is also some confusion over commercial and personal photography. The law doesn't differentiate. If you think about it, a photojournalist is a commercial photographer. A street photographer who goes on to sell prints, is a commercial photographer. A press photographer, is a commercial photographer. All the above by virtue of the fact that they sell their images. Actually, as an aside, the long winded debate over the terms professional and amateur could be diluted if we replaced 'professional' with 'commercial'. That would offer a clear distinction undeniably based on the 'job' factor.

Where the commercial aspect is applied, it usually applies to the equipment used. You can wander through Trafalgar Square as a 'commercial' photographer and make photos, however, you cannot use a tri-pod. Equally, a police officer can stop you using a tri-pod anywhere in public if it's considered you are causing an obstruction. In all these cases it is about the equipment used. Issues regarding any use of photographs are separate and if you are court up in a legal wrangle it will be in the civil courts. Remember though it is usually the publisher of the photo, not the photographer that is liable, if at all.

The question of indecent images again depends on the circumstances and is again misinterpreted. In public, photographing our marmite friend, even naked wouldn't be classed as indecent. Attempting to photograph up a woman's skirt would be classed as indecent, unless she had pulled the skirt up over her head. So, with all of this it's not the photography as such but the circumstances, you and your subject's behaviour that matters. An offence of voyeurism under the Sexual Offences Act can only apply if the subject had full reason to believe they were in a private situation, so photographing someone changing clothes behind a purposely screened area, albeit on the street would be potentially an offence, but not if they chose to change knowingly in full view of the public.

So, photographing people isn't illegal and you don't need their consent as such. But do you need a model release form? Well, no. In the UK, a model release has no legal standing. It may, in a dispute, help your case as it shows agreed intent with agreed terms but you don't need one. Don't confuse a legal requirement with terms laid down by third parties like stock agencies.

As I understand it, most of the above also applies to private property. Again, the law does not state with legislation that you can't make photographs on private property. The property owner can prohibit photography as a condition of allowing onto said property but it would not be illegal. The owner can ask you to stop and can ask you to leave; in the same capacity as asking you to not curse in front of the children or just expelling you because you have outstayed your welcome. Some force can be used to expel you but you camera cannot be confiscated or interfered with. Clearly this has the potential for both parties to break the law but most of these cases are civil cases. So when you go somewhere and it says photography is prohibited or restricted with signs or you are informed as a condition of entry it still isn't illegal.

I'll touch on the issue of photographing the police, armed forces and security personnel (by which I mean MI5/ GCHQ etc). Under Section 58a it is an offence to make photos of the aforementioned where the photos would be of use to a terrorist or for an act of terrorism. However this does not apply to making photos of these people in normal circumstances. You can photograph the police for example. If an officer is making an arrest in the street, walking around on the beat, just doing his/her daily thing, it is fine to make a photo. What you can't do is surveillance them going back and forth to work, documenting a behavioural pattern which could then be used against them criminally. Unless, presumably, you are an investigative journalist looking into corruption and building a case with evidence. It which case you could prove presumably prove your motives.

There have been cases where people have been stopped and questioned by the police for photography, where the police have used various (some now defunct like Section 44) legislation usually linked to anti-terrorism. The photography aspect has on the whole only been the catalyst, with some officers suggesting that photography is a suspicious act and could be associated with terrorism planning. This has been proven to be spurious and the last couple of years, barring a few curious exceptions, has been better with the police taking a more sensible approach. I hope I am right.

The issue of the sailing club comes under some of the above. The separation of photographing adults and children is to my knowledge unfounded. The sailing club can ban photography or set down whatever rules they like but I believe many clubs often mash up the legislation they quote. This makes things difficult to navigate when you factor in how you want to behave, your relationship with the club, with the members and your local reputation.

Often they will cite child protection but it is usually misunderstood and misused. We have been through the rather daft CRB debacle and had schools ban parents filming and photographing plays and sports days etc under supposed 'child protection'. Most of it is a load of rubbish and more people are starting to realise this now.

The OP's situation is an every day situation. The club are wrong to try an impose any sanction. Assuming the OP was on public land photographing a publicly viewed event the club have no complaint. Presumably the OP wasn't alone and other people were present no doubt making photos also. Just because the OP has approached the club with an offer to supply copies (charged or not) it does not alter the freedom he was under as detailed above.

There is no distinction between the adults and the children and the OP should think about whether to leave online the photos or not, for the reason I started this post.

There are two things I think are relevant. One is a massive double standard being perpetrated. The parent who complains you have included their child sailing, posts their own photos of their child or re-posts friends photos of their child....online. The clubs often do the same, they raise the issue then possibly post photos on their website. It is also a double standard to hold an event in a public place and then tell people they shouldn't make photos.

Secondly, people avoid photographing children in public. We see comments on here all the time, have done for years now and that means our children, when old, will wonder where they were. Go into Waterstones and you'll find social documentary photo books depicting kids in the street playing. We applaud these photos, some made by the greats, some by the likes of us mortals but so many of these fantastic images are hugely important.

We accept the fad for the mirrored selfie and grunt, hoping it will go away. We do unconsciously mentally scan images online and in magazines and adverts and newspapers that 30 years ago would never have been off the top shelf and say nothing. Teen clothing mail order catalogues depict kids in skimpy clothes, teen magazines push the boundaries hard.

Yet, kids playing in public, or sailing boats, are off limits if you listen to some people

I have tried to cover some of the legal side of things but I think we have a moral ethic to not avoid photographing people, adults and children, but to not shy away. When you set out to appease by removing or deleting photos immediately at any spurious request or demand, we lose something for the future and you perpetuate bad thinking.

I don't mean we should seek confrontation or to fuel an unhappy circumstance and I don't mean we should trample over people and ignore sensibilities or justified concerns, but we should, treading gently work to dispel poor understanding, perception and as someone else said paranoia.

We should be photographing normal, and the not so normal, everyday public life and that includes adults and children.

Matt
 
I don't think you're correct. Just because someone asks or tells you to stop photographing them, you don't have two. For it to be harassment, it would need to happen on more than one occasion and it would be them causing a disturbance.

How do you think photojournalism works?
 
I don't think you're correct.


i know hes not correct :) But then I didnt read all of it.... a post that big needs pictures :)
 
p*** mania strikes again!."LOOK there's one- get him he's got a camera that's kid's he photographing ,I bet he used to watch Jimmy Savile on Top Of The Pop's"."Get the noose let's hang him high!"

And now he's pointing his camera at a bridge.... Terrorist!!!!


Steve.
 
This is a question which comes around regularly and I defer to many on here who have far more knowledge and experience than I do; however I will give my 'perception', because I have become dismayed at something our children are losing on a daily basis.

The OP's question, so far as I can infer, asks about the legal situation with regard publishing and selling photos made in a public place. There is a subtext of sorts in that the question of photographing children is raised.

This question has a straight forward answer but with contextual and behavioural complications.

In the main it is not illegal to make photos anywhere. There are many who argue the case for 'photographers' rights' but 'photographers', be them working professionals or hobbyists, do not officially exist as an entity with which to have rights. It is the absence of legislation prohibiting photography which allows everyone to make photographs. There are locations and situations where photography is prohibited, but these are specific locations, invariably due to national security and situations usually involving human behaviour.

If you are in a public place nobody can specifically stop you making photographs. There is no presumption for privacy if you are in public and that applies to both adults and children. An individual's behaviour, or a group behaviour does not in itself bar you from making photographs; if someone for no clear reason throws off their clothes, smears themselves with marmite and runs down the street yelling, 'you either love me or you don't', they will have no case to prevent you making a photo of their behaviour, naked or otherwise.

If however, you photograph a specific individual in the street and that person asks you to stop, you should be careful as at that point a line has been drawn. You might chose to ignore the request and carry on, but it is a fine line now between potentially legal and illegal.

You run the risk of being charged by the police with harassment or maybe a breach of the peace. My understanding is that you can't be charged per se with an act of photography but rather the former two offences. For harassment to stick, your subject should have asked you to stop several times and for your behaviour to make any reasonable person feel harassed. They should also be the subject. If they are simply one person among several or many in a street scene, harassment probably wouldn't be supported.

There is also some confusion over commercial and personal photography. The law doesn't differentiate. If you think about it, a photojournalist is a commercial photographer. A street photographer who goes on to sell prints, is a commercial photographer. A press photographer, is a commercial photographer. All the above by virtue of the fact that they sell their images. Actually, as an aside, the long winded debate over the terms professional and amateur could be diluted if we replaced 'professional' with 'commercial'. That would offer a clear distinction undeniably based on the 'job' factor.

Where the commercial aspect is applied, it usually applies to the equipment used. You can wander through Trafalgar Square as a 'commercial' photographer and make photos, however, you cannot use a tri-pod. Equally, a police officer can stop you using a tri-pod anywhere in public if it's considered you are causing an obstruction. In all these cases it is about the equipment used. Issues regarding any use of photographs are separate and if you are court up in a legal wrangle it will be in the civil courts. Remember though it is usually the publisher of the photo, not the photographer that is liable, if at all.

The question of indecent images again depends on the circumstances and is again misinterpreted. In public, photographing our marmite friend, even naked wouldn't be classed as indecent. Attempting to photograph up a woman's skirt would be classed as indecent, unless she had pulled the skirt up over her head. So, with all of this it's not the photography as such but the circumstances, you and your subject's behaviour that matters. An offence of voyeurism under the Sexual Offences Act can only apply if the subject had full reason to believe they were in a private situation, so photographing someone changing clothes behind a purposely screened area, albeit on the street would be potentially an offence, but not if they chose to change knowingly in full view of the public.

So, photographing people isn't illegal and you don't need their consent as such. But do you need a model release form? Well, no. In the UK, a model release has no legal standing. It may, in a dispute, help your case as it shows agreed intent with agreed terms but you don't need one. Don't confuse a legal requirement with terms laid down by third parties like stock agencies.

As I understand it, most of the above also applies to private property. Again, the law does not state with legislation that you can't make photographs on private property. The property owner can prohibit photography as a condition of allowing onto said property but it would not be illegal. The owner can ask you to stop and can ask you to leave; in the same capacity as asking you to not curse in front of the children or just expelling you because you have outstayed your welcome. Some force can be used to expel you but you camera cannot be confiscated or interfered with. Clearly this has the potential for both parties to break the law but most of these cases are civil cases. So when you go somewhere and it says photography is prohibited or restricted with signs or you are informed as a condition of entry it still isn't illegal.

I'll touch on the issue of photographing the police, armed forces and security personnel (by which I mean MI5/ GCHQ etc). Under Section 58a it is an offence to make photos of the aforementioned where the photos would be of use to a terrorist or for an act of terrorism. However this does not apply to making photos of these people in normal circumstances. You can photograph the police for example. If an officer is making an arrest in the street, walking around on the beat, just doing his/her daily thing, it is fine to make a photo. What you can't do is surveillance them going back and forth to work, documenting a behavioural pattern which could then be used against them criminally. Unless, presumably, you are an investigative journalist looking into corruption and building a case with evidence. It which case you could prove presumably prove your motives.

There have been cases where people have been stopped and questioned by the police for photography, where the police have used various (some now defunct like Section 44) legislation usually linked to anti-terrorism. The photography aspect has on the whole only been the catalyst, with some officers suggesting that photography is a suspicious act and could be associated with terrorism planning. This has been proven to be spurious and the last couple of years, barring a few curious exceptions, has been better with the police taking a more sensible approach. I hope I am right.

The issue of the sailing club comes under some of the above. The separation of photographing adults and children is to my knowledge unfounded. The sailing club can ban photography or set down whatever rules they like but I believe many clubs often mash up the legislation they quote. This makes things difficult to navigate when you factor in how you want to behave, your relationship with the club, with the members and your local reputation.

Often they will cite child protection but it is usually misunderstood and misused. We have been through the rather daft CRB debacle and had schools ban parents filming and photographing plays and sports days etc under supposed 'child protection'. Most of it is a load of rubbish and more people are starting to realise this now.

The OP's situation is an every day situation. The club are wrong to try an impose any sanction. Assuming the OP was on public land photographing a publicly viewed event the club have no complaint. Presumably the OP wasn't alone and other people were present no doubt making photos also. Just because the OP has approached the club with an offer to supply copies (charged or not) it does not alter the freedom he was under as detailed above.

There is no distinction between the adults and the children and the OP should think about whether to leave online the photos or not, for the reason I started this post.

There are two things I think are relevant. One is a massive double standard being perpetrated. The parent who complains you have included their child sailing, posts their own photos of their child or re-posts friends photos of their child....online. The clubs often do the same, they raise the issue then possibly post photos on their website. It is also a double standard to hold an event in a public place and then tell people they shouldn't make photos.

Secondly, people avoid photographing children in public. We see comments on here all the time, have done for years now and that means our children, when old, will wonder where they were. Go into Waterstones and you'll find social documentary photo books depicting kids in the street playing. We applaud these photos, some made by the greats, some by the likes of us mortals but so many of these fantastic images are hugely important.

We accept the fad for the mirrored selfie and grunt, hoping it will go away. We do unconsciously mentally scan images online and in magazines and adverts and newspapers that 30 years ago would never have been off the top shelf and say nothing. Teen clothing mail order catalogues depict kids in skimpy clothes, teen magazines push the boundaries hard.

Yet, kids playing in public, or sailing boats, are off limits if you listen to some people

I have tried to cover some of the legal side of things but I think we have a moral ethic to not avoid photographing people, adults and children, but to not shy away. When you set out to appease by removing or deleting photos immediately at any spurious request or demand, we lose something for the future and you perpetuate bad thinking.

I don't mean we should seek confrontation or to fuel an unhappy circumstance and I don't mean we should trample over people and ignore sensibilities or justified concerns, but we should, treading gently work to dispel poor understanding, perception and as someone else said paranoia.

We should be photographing normal, and the not so normal, everyday public life and that includes adults and children.

Matt


^^ What he wrote.

I don't think I have ever seen the facts put out in one post in such a comprehensive but easy to understand way.


Steve.
 
I don't think you're correct. Just because someone asks or tells you to stop photographing them, you don't have two. For it to be harassment, it would need to happen on more than one occasion and it would be them causing a disturbance.

How do you think photojournalism works?

Fine if you're a photojournalist, but 99.99% of this forum aren't.

You have a right to take photographs (ok, you don't have a right it's just not a "wrong"), but you have a responsibility not to be a twunt about it. Just watch your average guy-with-camera as soon as he gets a long lens attached.. everyone's a subject and he's got a motor drive, he's all elbows and shoulders as he pushes children wheelchairs and the elderly too either side to be at the front for the parade, he's got a website with "photography" in the title (just in case anyone was confused). He's got rights, don't you know?



But as far as the original post, if it's their land it's their rules. And remember that the committees of clubs and associations are almost certainly all volunteers, they're not legal experts. They almost certainly have a safeguarding policy if they have a junior section, and it's almost certainly over-cautious because they don't quite understand it all themselves, it was copied from somewhere else several years ago, and all such policies are driven by the lowest levels of understanding and greatest level of paranoia in the room (if you're a Sun/Mirror/Daily Mail/Express/Daily Record reader - that's you).
 
st599 & KIPAX

You say I am not correct in my description of harassment; that you don't have to stop photographing people if they ask you to stop and that is essentially photojournalism. That was st599's post and KIPAX says he knows I am not correct.

Can you expand?

This is what I said:

For harassment to stick, your subject should have asked you to stop several times and for your behaviour to make any reasonable person feel harassed. They should also be the subject. If they are simply one person among several or many in a street scene, harassment probably wouldn't be supported.

Harassment is a serious offence but it is open to interpretation as to when harassment has occurred. A single request to stop photographing a person, by that person, can't be harassment. They would need to have asked you a number of times and your behaviour must be such that a reasonable person would feel harassed.

Photojournalists don't have special dispensation and need to make sure they behave appropriately, even though some don't. As I understand it, harassment has to be specific, so you can't complain of harassment if you are in a street scene and are not the main subject. You can't ask someone to stop photography in the street just because you are in the street.

A case for harassment would be brought more against your behaviour, not the photography which would essentially just be the catalyst. So photographing someone would not be harassment; but your continued persistence after being asked several times to stop and then causing distress could be defined as harassment.

But, as with so many things, the line is different for different people so it is a tricky one and it's often used too quickly and inappropriately. Also, the subject's behaviour would be a factor.

How wrong am I with this.

Matt
 
No, I just don't think it's worth it, I came here to learn about my hobby, but there's nothing I want to learn off someone like you.
That's going to be your loss then Im afraid. Accept that you were wrong and lets move on.
 
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