Pinhole cameras

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I’ve made a pinhole bodycap for my mamiya 645 but I want to buy a purpose built pinhole Camera so I don’t have to lug around the mamiya all the time. I’ve been looking at the zero 2000 mainly because it has a cable shutter release but their about £200! There’s cameras on Ebay called noon and the 6x6 goes for £90. Are there any good or is there any better options?
 
I made one out of a knackered old TLR, though I've not had chance to try it yet.
 
Your first choice should be the film format that you feel happy with, since that will be a big help. If you intend shooting b&w and processing yourself, 5x4 can be relatively cheap, whereas commercial processing is more difficult due to sending the film sheet through the post in a suitable package. I had a Noon woody which took 120 film and could be shot in 6x6, 6x9 or 6x12 by removing a couple of wooden inserts, but I found it a nightmare as I had difficulty lining up the frame number through the red window on the back of the camera, plus the film itself never really seemed to be tight in the camera. After a number of "creative" overlapping shots, I moved it on as it wasn't for me. You might get on fine with it, and I'm sure someplace like Filmdev could cope with the processing, although I'm not sure about scanning. :thinking:

Scan-130403-0003-tp.jpg
 
I’ve made a pinhole bodycap for my mamiya 645 but I want to buy a purpose built pinhole Camera so I don’t have to lug around the mamiya all the time. I’ve been looking at the zero 2000 mainly because it has a cable shutter release but their about £200! There’s cameras on Ebay called noon and the 6x6 goes for £90. Are there any good or is there any better options?
I've got a few pinholes including the Noon 6x12 which is similar in design to the Noon 6x6. As @Peter B pointed out, lack of tension on the film can be an issue. This isn't just an issue with the Noon's. It's a problem with any that do not include a tensioning mechanism. The Zero Image pinholes do have an elementary tensioning device on both of the spools and the design of the camera helps to keep the film relatively flat. Having the ability to attach a cable release is a godsend when you're dealing with relatively short exposure times.

Each pinhole camera has its quirks. But isn't that part of the charm?
 
Your first choice should be the film format that you feel happy with, since that will be a big help. If you intend shooting b&w and processing yourself, 5x4 can be relatively cheap, whereas commercial processing is more difficult due to sending the film sheet through the post in a suitable package. I had a Noon woody which took 120 film and could be shot in 6x6, 6x9 or 6x12 by removing a couple of wooden inserts, but I found it a nightmare as I had difficulty lining up the frame number through the red window on the back of the camera, plus the film itself never really seemed to be tight in the camera. After a number of "creative" overlapping shots, I moved it on as it wasn't for me. You might get on fine with it, and I'm sure someplace like Filmdev could cope with the processing, although I'm not sure about scanning. :thinking:

View attachment 131480
120 would be the biggest I’d use. Everything about zero cameras look better than noon to me apart from the price! I like the cable release option and they appear to be better made
 
I've got a few pinholes including the Noon 6x12 which is similar in design to the Noon 6x6. As @Peter B pointed out, lack of tension on the film can be an issue. This isn't just an issue with the Noon's. It's a problem with any that do not include a tensioning mechanism. The Zero Image pinholes do have an elementary tensioning device on both of the spools and the design of the camera helps to keep the film relatively flat. Having the ability to attach a cable release is a godsend when you're dealing with relatively short exposure times.

Each pinhole camera has its quirks. But isn't that part of the charm?
I like the cable release! Just feels a little wrong to spend that much on a pinhole Camera lol but I suppose that depends on how much I’d use it, there’s been a few times I’ve wanted to go out but couldn’t be bothered to take the mamiya with the pinhole body cap out
 
Folders are a a good choice because the film transport is all taken care of. They're easy to adapt because the lenses usually come off by unscrewing a retaining ring at the back. Then you just stick a pinhole (bit of drinks can is quite good) over the hole where the lens was and work out some sort of shutter. Gets a bit more fiddly if you want to change the focal length, but if you keep it the same, you just reuse all of the mechanical springy-outy gubbins.

For a 6x6, a 1950s Zeiss Ikon Nettar is a good choice - can regularly be picked up for a tenner or so. (The ones that have a built-in finder rather than the flip-up type.)
 
I like the cable release! Just feels a little wrong to spend that much on a pinhole Camera lol but I suppose that depends on how much I’d use it, there’s been a few times I’ve wanted to go out but couldn’t be bothered to take the mamiya with the pinhole body cap out
I was sorely tempted by the Zero Image but instead opted for the Au Premier Plan RealitySoSubtle 6x6F because I wanted to mess about with ND filters for even longer exposure times. Whilst Zero Image make a variant with a cable release and filter thread, I wasn't sure of the design regarding the potential for unwanted light leakage around the pivoting shutter.

May buy a Zero Image with a cable release at some point in the near future. Assuming I'm allowed.
 
Folders are a a good choice because the film transport is all taken care of. They're easy to adapt because the lenses usually come off by unscrewing a retaining ring at the back. Then you just stick a pinhole (bit of drinks can is quite good) over the hole where the lens was and work out some sort of shutter. Gets a bit more fiddly if you want to change the focal length, but if you keep it the same, you just reuse all of the mechanical springy-outy gubbins.

For a 6x6, a 1950s Zeiss Ikon Nettar is a good choice - can regularly be picked up for a tenner or so. (The ones that have a built-in finder rather than the flip-up type.)
If you just remove the glass from the shutter (unscrews from both front and the inside) then you can use the original shutter on B with a cable release.
 
I was sorely tempted by the Zero Image but instead opted for the Au Premier Plan RealitySoSubtle 6x6F because I wanted to mess about with ND filters for even longer exposure times. Whilst Zero Image make a variant with a cable release and filter thread, I wasn't sure of the design regarding the potential for unwanted light leakage around the pivoting shutter.

May buy a Zero Image with a cable release at some point in the near future. Assuming I'm allowed.
The pivoting shutter works just fine, I’ve had mine for about 8 years and never had any light leak issues. Although pricey they are good cameras and I really enjoy using it.

I spoke to then last year about buying the filter mount to fit onto it and it’s something I’ll get when I have some spare cash.
 
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I have used three pinhole cameras, two of which I still have.

My first pinhole was the Holga WPC120, which can shoot 6*9 or 6*12. In my opinion it produced a surprisingly high image quality for a pinhole:


Southwark Cathedral by pinhole (Holga)
by Kevin Allan, on Flickr

However the build quality wasn't as good as the image quality. Although it had useful features such as a cable release socket and the ability to just-about balance filters on the front, it had a nasty habit of the back falling off. Once the metal fixtures which were supposed to keep the back on fell off totally, I threw the camera out.

The second pinhole was the Ondu Multiformat which takes 6*6, 6*9, and 6*12. It has much better build quality than the Holga did but, in my opinion, the images were softer. This is not necessarily a bad thing because owners might want their pinhole images to look like they were taken with a pinhole.


Eilan Donan pinhole (with the Ondu)
by Kevin Allan, on Flickr

Like any multiformat camera, there is the risk of getting the wind-on wrong, which I did my share of on both the aforesaid cameras.

I still have the Ondu but have also added a pinhole board for my Intrepid 4*5 camera:

IMG_0184.jpg

As you can see this arrangement has the advantage that you can use some view camera movements. In this case I used upwards shift when photographing a tall monument. Sideways shift could also be used. However tilt movements would have no effect when used with a pinhole. If, like me, you are using the pinhole as an adjunct to using the camera with lenses (as opposed to only having the pinhole and no lenses) then you can use a lens as a viewfinder to help you frame the image before switching from lens to pinhole. You also have, effectively, a "zoom" feature because the belows can be set at any length to change the angle of view.

If you already have or want a LF camera then the cost and weight of the pinhole are negligible. The Intrepid costs £250 and the pinhole board an extra £25. Some 4*5 pinhole cameras cost nearly as much, for example the Ilford 4*5 costs £173 - but these cameras only offer a fraction of the functionality of the Intrepid (or, I'm sure, of the Croma!)

Here's an example of the results using the Intrepid with a pinhole:

2017-3 Arcot Lake, Intrepid 4x5, TMax100, HC110 Dil B Jobo 5m, 2.jpg
 
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I have used three pinhole cameras, two of which I still have.

My first pinhole was the Holga WPC120, which can shoot 6*9 or 6*12. In my opinion it produced a surprisingly high image quality for a pinhole:


Southwark Cathedral by pinhole (Holga)
by Kevin Allan, on Flickr

However the build quality wasn't as good as the image quality. Although it had useful features such as a cable release socket and the ability to just-about balance filters on the front, it had a nasty habit of the back falling off. Once the metal fixtures which were supposed to keep the back on fell off totally, I threw the camera out.

The second pinhole was the Ondu Multiformat which takes 6*6, 6*9, and 6*12. It has much better build quality than the Holga did but, in my opinion, the images were softer. This is not necessarily a bad thing because owners might want their pinhole images to look like they were taken with a pinhole.


Eilan Donan pinhole (with the Ondu)
by Kevin Allan, on Flickr

Like any multiformat camera, there is the risk of getting the wind-on wrong, which I did my share of on both the aforesaid cameras.

I still have the Ondu but have also added a pinhole board for my Intrepid 4*5 camera:

View attachment 131521

As you can see this arrangement has the advantage that you can use some view camera movements. In this case I used upwards shift when photographing a tall monument. Sideways shift could also be used. However tilt movements would have no effect when used with a pinhole. If, like me, you are using the pinhole as an adjunct to using the camera with lenses (as opposed to only having the pinhole and no lenses) then you can use a lens as a viewfinder to help you frame the image before switching from lens to pinhole. You also have, effectively, a "zoom" feature because the belows can be set at any length to change the angle of view.

If you already have or want a LF camera then the cost and weight of the pinhole are negligible. The Intrepid costs £250 and the pinhole board an extra £25. Some 4*5 pinhole cameras cost nearly as much, for example the Ilford 4*5 costs £173 - but these cameras only offer a fraction of the functionality of the Intrepid (or, I'm sure, of the Croma!)

Here's an example of the results using the Intrepid with a pinhole:

View attachment 131522
I like large format but the cost is too much for me at the moment, my scanner only goes up to 120 film. Plus the reason of wanting a separate pinhole Camera was that I could go around my messenger camera bag rather than a backpack for the mamiya.
 
Folders are a a good choice because the film transport is all taken care of. They're easy to adapt because the lenses usually come off by unscrewing a retaining ring at the back. Then you just stick a pinhole (bit of drinks can is quite good) over the hole where the lens was and work out some sort of shutter. Gets a bit more fiddly if you want to change the focal length, but if you keep it the same, you just reuse all of the mechanical springy-outy gubbins.

For a 6x6, a 1950s Zeiss Ikon Nettar is a good choice - can regularly be picked up for a tenner or so. (The ones that have a built-in finder rather than the flip-up type.)
How would I attach a pre made pinhole? I buy mine from the reality so subtle guy then still a hole in a body cap and attach the pinhole.
 
You can make your own pinhole with - gasp - a pin. I use thick aluminium foil held in place with sticky tape and put a gentle pinprick in the centre.
 
How would I attach a pre made pinhole? I buy mine from the reality so subtle guy then still a hole in a body cap and attach the pinhole.

If it was me I’d unscrew the retaining ring from the back of the original lens (accessed from inside the bellows) and drop out the original lens. You’re then left with a flat metal plate which has a hole in the middle. You could then bond the pinhole plate you’ve already got to the metal plate and you’ve got a pinhole Camera.

As above, if you want to retain the shutter/cable release, you can strip down the original lens and remove the front/rear glass then mount the pinhole plate into the shutter instead of the glass.
 
If it was me I’d unscrew the retaining ring from the back of the original lens (accessed from inside the bellows) and drop out the original lens. You’re then left with a flat metal plate which has a hole in the middle. You could then bond the pinhole plate you’ve already got to the metal plate and you’ve got a pinhole Camera.

As above, if you want to retain the shutter/cable release, you can strip down the original lens and remove the front/rear glass then mount the pinhole plate into the shutter instead of the glass.
Nice, I might have to give it a go. Watching a couple of the folders on Ebay at the moment.
 
Stick it on with gaffer tape...

6x9 Folder Pinhole 01.jpg

The bit of electrician's tape in the middle is the lens cap, hold hand or hat in front, remove cap, then move hand/hat out and back in to act as shutter. With the cap removed...

6x9 Folder Pinhole 02.jpg

The pinhole was made from 0.05mm stainless steel shim using a 0.3mm carbide drill on a small milling machine.

The ally foil and pin method will also work, although I'd prefer to cut a piece of drinks can - a bit thicker at about 0.1mm, but very robust. A sewing needle has a finer taper from its main diameter to the tip so is easier to control in the harder material. Put the bit of ally can on a sacrificial surface like some softwood, hold the needle with a pair of pliers, and gently tap it with a small hammer. Once you have it pierced, you should be able to tap the needle in further until you get the diameter you want. If any of the ally gets dragged through to the other side, use very fine abrasive to work it smooth.

With a bit of luck, you could have a whole donor camera, delivered, for the price of one of those laser cut pinholes...

[Link removed due to eBay being too clever for its own good - sold listings no longer exist, even though they can be found in the sold listings! It was a Nettar that sold for 3 quid, with 3 quid delivery.]

Add a bit of thin ally and some tape, and you're sorted.
 
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Note that not all folders allow the glass to be unscrewed. The front part can be removed (the element/group that does focus), but the rest is sometimes held in by a circular clip that could be a fiddle to get out.
 
Note that not all folders allow the glass to be unscrewed. The front part can be removed (the element/group that does focus), but the rest is sometimes held in by a circular clip that could be a fiddle to get out.
The one I’m looking at is a Zeiss ikon 518/16 signal nattar. That’s what it’s listed as anyway.
Do those cameras sometimes have a screw in the cable release? In the photos the cable release looks like it has a screw in
 
The one I’m looking at is a Zeiss ikon 518/16 signal nattar. That’s what it’s listed as anyway.
Do those cameras sometimes have a screw in the cable release? In the photos the cable release looks like it has a screw in
Not quite sure what you mean by a screw in. On a Zeiss Ikon Nettar (all models) there is a threaded socket for a standard cable release (uses a tapered thread).
 
Nettar models are listed here...

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Nettar

All of the ones that end "/16" are 6x6. The 515s have a flip-up finder, 516, 517 and 518 all have a built-in finder. The 518s had the most options for shutters and lenses. The main issues I've found with them are the black paint flaking off, the shutter speed and aperture controls getting a bit stiff, and slow speeds getting sluggish. Sometimes the focus gets a bit stiff. The B setting has been fine on the ones I've seen. The stitching on the case around the bottom edge can be shot (although tends to stay attached at the bottom front edge).

The signal Nettars are so called because they have double exposure prevention - can't cock and release the shutter twice without advancing the film. Some have a little red flag in the viewfinder, and some have a hole in the top cover. Beware that it's possible to trigger the mechanism without actually releasing the shutter - with a slow partial press of the shutter button, you can hear a faint click. If you take your finger off the button and then try to press it down, it won't release the shutter.

At first glance, the screw in the cable release socket doesn't appear to do anything, but it's a workaround for the shutter mechanism on the front not being connected to the interlock for double exposure prevention. There is also a cable release thread in the shutter button, and the clue is in what happens when you use a cable release in each. With it screwed into the shutter button, you get double exposure prevention, with it screwed into the shutter mechanism at the front, you don't. Since the lenses and shutters were also fitted to models that don't have double exposure prevention, the easiest and cheapest way to encourage people to use the 'safe' cable release socket on the shutter button was to stick a screw into the socket at the front. So, if you tend to use the shutter button and trigger the double exposure prevention thing without releasing the shutter, you can always get past it by sticking the cable release in the front. To save losing the screw, just take it out right away and stash it in some container for storing small parts (empty 35mm film cannister - labelled!). It goes without saying that, with any folder, it is definitely good practice to always advance the film immediately after making an exposure.

One other thing to keep in mind - it has no strap lugs. So if you want to carry it around on a strap, it needs to be in the case (and the case does not separate into two parts). The captive screw in the bottom of the case has a tripod socket, so you don't need to take it out of the case to mount it on a tripod. If you're only using it with a tripod, just dispense with the case and keep the camera in a bag or jacket pocket.

Regarding fitting the pinhole, the easiest and quickest is to just take the whole lens/shutter assembly off and tape the pinhole onto the front. That will give you something usable right away while you look into the options for getting the glass out of the housing so that you can refit the shutter for handy B exposures with a cable release. As I said, getting some of the elements out could be tricky (and would be best done with the assembly taken off anyway).

They're nice wee cameras to use with a lens as well - light and compact, and the square format means it's always the right way up. If you end up looking for another to use with the lens, seek out one with plenty of shutter speeds. Some have a very limited set of speeds, while others have lots of slower speeds. f4.5 is a good max aperture to go for - the f6.3 is a bit limiting. There was also an f3.5, but they're pretty rare.
 
Not quite sure what you mean by a screw in. On a Zeiss Ikon Nettar (all models) there is a threaded socket for a standard cable release (uses a tapered thread).
I’ll post a photo when I can. It almost looks like it has a flat head screw where the release should go
 
Not quite sure what you mean by a screw in. On a Zeiss Ikon Nettar (all models) there is a threaded socket for a standard cable release (uses a tapered thread).
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/113174492342
That’s the Ebay link. Have a look through the photos and see what you think. If your looking at the front of camera then from what I can tell the shutter release should be on your left but it looks like a flat head screw
 
Nettar models are listed here...

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Nettar

All of the ones that end "/16" are 6x6. The 515s have a flip-up finder, 516, 517 and 518 all have a built-in finder. The 518s had the most options for shutters and lenses. The main issues I've found with them are the black paint flaking off, the shutter speed and aperture controls getting a bit stiff, and slow speeds getting sluggish. Sometimes the focus gets a bit stiff. The B setting has been fine on the ones I've seen. The stitching on the case around the bottom edge can be shot (although tends to stay attached at the bottom front edge).

The signal Nettars are so called because they have double exposure prevention - can't cock and release the shutter twice without advancing the film. Some have a little red flag in the viewfinder, and some have a hole in the top cover. Beware that it's possible to trigger the mechanism without actually releasing the shutter - with a slow partial press of the shutter button, you can hear a faint click. If you take your finger off the button and then try to press it down, it won't release the shutter.

At first glance, the screw in the cable release socket doesn't appear to do anything, but it's a workaround for the shutter mechanism on the front not being connected to the interlock for double exposure prevention. There is also a cable release thread in the shutter button, and the clue is in what happens when you use a cable release in each. With it screwed into the shutter button, you get double exposure prevention, with it screwed into the shutter mechanism at the front, you don't. Since the lenses and shutters were also fitted to models that don't have double exposure prevention, the easiest and cheapest way to encourage people to use the 'safe' cable release socket on the shutter button was to stick a screw into the socket at the front. So, if you tend to use the shutter button and trigger the double exposure prevention thing without releasing the shutter, you can always get past it by sticking the cable release in the front. To save losing the screw, just take it out right away and stash it in some container for storing small parts (empty 35mm film cannister - labelled!). It goes without saying that, with any folder, it is definitely good practice to always advance the film immediately after making an exposure.

One other thing to keep in mind - it has no strap lugs. So if you want to carry it around on a strap, it needs to be in the case (and the case does not separate into two parts). The captive screw in the bottom of the case has a tripod socket, so you don't need to take it out of the case to mount it on a tripod. If you're only using it with a tripod, just dispense with the case and keep the camera in a bag or jacket pocket.

Regarding fitting the pinhole, the easiest and quickest is to just take the whole lens/shutter assembly off and tape the pinhole onto the front. That will give you something usable right away while you look into the options for getting the glass out of the housing so that you can refit the shutter for handy B exposures with a cable release. As I said, getting some of the elements out could be tricky (and would be best done with the assembly taken off anyway).

They're nice wee cameras to use with a lens as well - light and compact, and the square format means it's always the right way up. If you end up looking for another to use with the lens, seek out one with plenty of shutter speeds. Some have a very limited set of speeds, while others have lots of slower speeds. f4.5 is a good max aperture to go for - the f6.3 is a bit limiting. There was also an f3.5, but they're pretty rare.
Lots of information! Thanks! It’ll depend how cheap I can get one for I think as to whether I give it a go, I can picture myself taking one apart and getting frustrated when I can’t make it work!
 
The pivoting shutter works just fine, I’ve had mine for about 8 years and never had any light leak issues. Although pricey they are good cameras and I really enjoy using it.

I spoke to then last year about buying the filter mount to fit onto it and it’s something I’ll get when I have some spare cash.
I have no doubt about the pivoting shutter. More with the possibility of light entering the widened slot in the filter housing that's required to allow it to work with the cable release. Any light leaks between the pinhole and filter could cause some 'interesting' and unexpected effects.
 
I have no doubt about the pivoting shutter. More with the possibility of light entering the widened slot in the filter housing that's required to allow it to work with the cable release. Any light leaks between the pinhole and filter could cause some 'interesting' and unexpected effects.
OK I see what you mean, if I ever get round to buying the filter mount I'll let you know. (y)
 
The chance of getting leaks or localised fogging from light entering at an oblique angle is very low.The light has to get into the pinhole at an angle that's within the FoV to reach the film. If it's getting through a space at the side, such that it's almost parallel to the pinhole and film planes, it would need a suitably shaped or angled reflective surface right in front of the pinhole to turn the corner and get to the film.
 
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/113174492342
That’s the Ebay link. Have a look through the photos and see what you think. If your looking at the front of camera then from what I can tell the shutter release should be on your left but it looks like a flat head screw

The screw is exactly the same as on one of mine. That one has the best shutter speed options - most of them stop and 1/25 and then B, but that has 1/10, 1/5, 1/2 and 1 second as well. It's hard to say how the bidding will go. Sometimes, you're the only bidder, sometimes they go for over £15 plus shipping. The thing is, some people think they're collector's items and put them out Buy It Now for silly money, which can influence some people's idea of what a sensible bid is. It looks like a tidy example (paint looks good) so I'd be bidding something over £15 for it.

To be honest, it would be a nice camera to use with the lens unless you think you need the slow speeds for pinhole (but there's a good chance the slow speeds will be sluggish). One of the f6.3 versions with limited shutter speeds would be a better pinhole option (less of a sacrifice) if you only expected to use the cable release and manual timing. Given that the optimal pinhole size for ~70mm is 0.35, giving f235 and a 2s exposure time on a sunny day for 100asa film, manually timed with a cable release is highly likely.
 
The screw is exactly the same as on one of mine. That one has the best shutter speed options - most of them stop and 1/25 and then B, but that has 1/10, 1/5, 1/2 and 1 second as well. It's hard to say how the bidding will go. Sometimes, you're the only bidder, sometimes they go for over £15 plus shipping. The thing is, some people think they're collector's items and put them out Buy It Now for silly money, which can influence some people's idea of what a sensible bid is. It looks like a tidy example (paint looks good) so I'd be bidding something over £15 for it.

To be honest, it would be a nice camera to use with the lens unless you think you need the slow speeds for pinhole (but there's a good chance the slow speeds will be sluggish). One of the f6.3 versions with limited shutter speeds would be a better pinhole option (less of a sacrifice) if you only expected to use the cable release and manual timing. Given that the optimal pinhole size for ~70mm is 0.35, giving f235 and a 2s exposure time on a sunny day for 100asa film, manually timed with a cable release is highly likely.
Cool :). Well I stuck an opening bid of £6 on, see what happens.
Yea might be a shame to sacrifice it, I’ll try to make sure it’ll work before I do anything permanent lol!
 
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