Please help me nail sharp focus.....

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I've been at this lark since October now, and I really, really want to take it further. I'm sure I've got better, but am still not happy with the number of shots I get in sharp focus. I always use my Canon 50mm lens, and am quite attached to f1.8 (which might be part of my problem?). Almost always, for portrait work my subjects are my kids - 2 and 5 years old. They move a lot and so I WAS using AI Servo with all focus points selected (as suggested by someone on here months ago). I'm now trying my hand at One Shot again (with central focus point selected).

I don't use the * key to lock my focus (find it a fiddle to be honest), so I half depress to focus, recompose, then shoot. I always try to focus on eyes but sometimes get coat etc. in focus instead.

Please, I'll try anything because I'd like to progress to free shoots for friends now.
 
Half pressing in AI-Servo mode is when the lens is trying to follow the subject, when you recompose it might be locking onto something else and that's why your shots are off.

You're best off sticking to one shot but try and make sure the subject doesn't move when you recompose.
 
thanks Woblee, so for one shot, maybe best for moving kids to not be recomposing?

Also, if I have two kids or more wide, f1.8 isn't cutting it, so I guess I need a narrower aperture? My simple mind tells me aperture goes backwards and forwards, not left or right of centre :-0

As far as I'm aware aperture does only go backwards to forwards (might be wrong) but one thing about the Nifty Fifty your using is that it isn't too sharp at F/1.8. For soft focus portraits its brilliant - but try using it at around the F/8 mark, this seems to be this lens' sweet spot and you'll get some fantastic results from it.
 
thanks Woblee, so for one shot, maybe best for moving kids to not be recomposing?

Also, if I have two kids or more wide, f1.8 isn't cutting it, so I guess I need a narrower aperture? My simple mind tells me aperture goes backwards and forwards, not left or right of centre :-0


Is the subject is moving a lot and you can't recompose and shoot quickly enough then still use AI-Servo but use a different focus point rather than the center.

At f1.8 the depth of focus is very shallow and will be no good for 2 subjects as they will have to be in perfect line with eachother, and yes it work forwards/backwards.

As suggested, dail your apature down to f4 or more and things should improve.
 
I really only use my nifty fifty and f8 is razor sharp! 5.6 is very sharp with a shallower DOF f4 is, i find, sharp enough when viewed at ful;l size but when zoomed to 100% you start to notice soft spots
 
I've found they key to cracking focusing on small children is to use the focus point that is closest to the eye you want in focus.

Focus recompose will be introducing significant errors if you are close enough to fill the frame with a snall child on a 50mm lens.

I do use AI Sevo but chose the single focus point I want the camera to use.

I also use the * button, wouldn't go back to shutter button focus now, but takes a bit of time to get used to.

Remember the focus point is actually considerably larger than the square in the viewfinder.

HTH

An example





40D with 70-200 L

David
 
thanks so much all. I'm about to get outside with my daughter (the 5 year old) as my toddler is down for a nap and I just want to practise this with one.... I'll try a larger f. number, in fact I may play around, starting from 1.8 and working up to 10 and see how that goes. I'll obviously be losing my advantage of being able to have a fast shutter speed with the f1.8 (I do everything in manual as it helps me to learn), which I always think is a bonus for children, but perhaps it just doesn't need to be a shutter speed of 500 ;-)

you're all saying the same thing - 1.8 is soft, I'd never thought of that. Only thing is, at f8 won't I then have distracting backgrounds? I'll have a play!

Willid, that eye is amazingly sharp! Are both eyes as sharp though? I'm never quite sure whether to aim for one eye, or in between the eyes to get both in focus. To use the * button do I half press shutter to focus, then press that * button, then fully press shutter? I'm not 100% on what this does. Thanks :-)
 
Its not going to be a DOF problem - even when you are 1.5m away going for a headshot with your 50mm, you still have 30cm in front and 30cm behind that will be inside the DOF.

30cm is a lot of nose/ear/hair.

Play with the calculator: http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

More likely its lens softness, come back a notch or two - should be ok by f2.8 and thats still usable indoors and able to throw the backgrounds out.

Remember that lens is the absolute cheapest piece of glass you can stick on your Canon - don't expect miracles.
 
thanks desantnik, so I need a better lens? I honestly thought it was my technique to blame.... I suppose it was only £80 or so. Mind you, it's miles better than the kit lens....

I've experimented again and my images were sharp at full view but not when blown up in DPP to 100% zoom in. I'd like to get as sharp as is possible with this lens as not in a position to get a new one yet :thumbsdown:

Would my results be better if I lock the focus using * key? I really need to learn how to do that!
 
The nifty is soft wide open, but you should be able to nail sharp focus from f/2.2 down with a little care.
 
Because seeing Willid's close up of the little boy's eye, that is what I want to achieve. I think my kids have darker eyes which isn't helping but what looks like a sharp shot, when I go to 100% view, isn't sharp like Willid's close up. It's probably sharp ENOUGH, but I can't consider moving on because if my shots aren't 100% sharp in the first place it makes editing trickier (for example, when I move into Lightroom these images instantly seem softer?), and then reducing, converting to JPeg etc. for internet use makes them softer too....

So I don't feel I can move on to becoming much better at portrait editing, and I don't want to start offering even free shoots of peoples' kids because I want them to be able to request a canvas. Phew!

I'm starting to wonder - are there limits to this 50mm lens? Or should I be able to achieve pin sharp results? Wish I knew where I was going wrong!
 
Are you shooting in RAW mode? If so, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure I read that all RAW images need post-processing sharpening. Could that be part of the problem?
 
Hang on a sec... ISO 100... what kind of shutter speeds you getting? If you are shooting in aperture priority and leaving it at ISO 100, are you even paying attention to the shutter speeds?

Long shutter times will make your images softer... both because of subject movement and camera movement.

Have a look at some of your shots you aren't happy with and tell us what speeds you were getting...
 
Hang on a sec... ISO 100... what kind of shutter speeds you getting? If you are shooting in aperture priority and leaving it at ISO 100, are you even paying attention to the shutter speeds?

Long shutter times will make your images softer... both because of subject movement and camera movement.

Have a look at some of your shots you aren't happy with and tell us what speeds you were getting...

Exactly. If you're shooting indoors look to up the iso so you're getting shutter speeds of at least 125/1. This should help.
 
doorag, hmm, maybe? I sharpen in the software that came with the camera (have tried sharpening in Lightroom but it doesn't seem to do much - still have to learn how to sharpen in PS).

Desantnik, I shoot in Manual, always. Best way for me to learn.... these shots that aren't sharp enough for my liking often have shutter speeds of 200-500....
 
get more dof...really i would have thought at close quarters and playing both sides of the game 2.8-4.0 would be better
i focus and then recompose but also find its hit and miss...especially when all elements are moving in a chaotic way...
the best way forward is to fix something...ie tripod
then select a practical f no...4.0...and hope you can get the speed with your low iso setting
taking multi exposures can sometimes bag you a winner if the subject allows
of course if they sit properly for 1/8 then you can shoot single shots
 
thanks mrcrow, I'll try a tripod tomorrow.

One of my main problems too is, even when an image looks REALLY sharp, when I convert it to JPeg and reduce (using convert and save in DPP), the result is really soft, and an attempt to sharpen the JPeg is not good. It's blurry then just messed up. I was going to show you one on here, but I can't because I can't show you exactly how sharp it was!
 
thanks mrcrow, I'll try a tripod tomorrow.

One of my main problems too is, even when an image looks REALLY sharp, when I convert it to JPeg and reduce (using convert and save in DPP), the result is really soft, and an attempt to sharpen the JPeg is not good. It's blurry then just messed up. I was going to show you one on here, but I can't because I can't show you exactly how sharp it was!

its the same story for me...i get a good big file...i only take jpeg...thats all my toy will do
but when i reduce for forums the sparkle goes and the unsharp mask just wont bring it back
the problem with the forums is you have to put your really good shot on a host site and then give the link...
flikr for instance or imageshack
then the person who looks at it has a different monitor from yours.etc

that shot above of the little lad is exceptionally sharp...i would contact Willid1 and get the low down..he does explain it a bit
good luck
 
Willid, that eye is amazingly sharp! Are both eyes as sharp though? I'm never quite sure whether to aim for one eye, or in between the eyes to get both in focus. To use the * button do I half press shutter to focus, then press that * button, then fully press shutter? I'm not 100% on what this does. Thanks :-)

The other eye



A few thoughts to help you along.

I too have a 50mm f1.8 and have some cracking sharp shots to rival the one posted here from my 70-200.

As I said I use back button focus, chose the most appropriate focus point, 400IS0 and f4 (usually) to get a pretty high shutter speed - hopefully above 1/250th to freeze any subject movement.

I shoot RAW and in DPP leave the RAW sharpening set to 3 (camera default for 40D) then usually dial in 100 sharpening on the RGB tab, then convert to large JPG.

Sharpening after resizing can be tricky, so have a play with different methods, and upload to the TP gallery to avoid softening via third party web sites mangling your images.

HTH

David
 
thanks mrcrow, I'm not even sure MY monitor is showing things correctly but just can't stretch to callibration software at present. I think I also need to learn how to use the unsharp mask in PS...

David, thanks so much for the tips. I've done exactly as you said and am about to try and upload full size JPeg to the gallery - it's a lot sharper than when I reduce the size. Still not sure how to proceed for Flickr/Facebook/blog etc. (I want to start a blog).

I'll upload an image I took today - it's just a practise shot of my daughter, nothing special and with messy hair ;-) f4, AF One shot.
 
OK none of those uploads worked, and I'm going to watch Dr Who now - so I'll upload this in the morning :-)

To upload to the TP gallery images must be no bigger than 200kb and no longer than 800 pixels on the long side to conform to Forum rules.

HTH

David
 
David, thank you - will do that. I think I must be the biggest numpty around :-/ I was lying in bed last night, thinking WHY are my images softer when they're resized smaller, then it occurred to me - DPP shows you the image at full screen size - unless you ask it for 100% view. Oh I'm so ashamed. Of COURSE it will be blurry, it's being stretched bigger than its actual size. Please feel free to have a laugh at my expense, as long as it's a good natured one. I'm such a girl, LOVE the aesthetic side of photography but all the technical stuff takes me longer to grasp. Oh dear....

So here is a practise shot I took yesterday - of my little girl, not a cracking image due to too much hair etc. And looking at it I should have warmed the tones up, but anyway, here it is, looks sharp:

laura3s.JPG


But then if I zoom in on the eye like you have David, it's not such a good result - it hasn't got that crystal sharpness that your image has:

eye_larger2.JPG


However, perhaps it is also down to more experience, better camera, etc....

I did these by uploading to gallery then copying image url...
 
Hi Kitschenalia,

I had a 'softness' issue a while back. I blamed everything from the lens I was using to the software I was using....

For all it's cheapness, the nifty is optically speaking, superb. It is a bit soft at f1.8 though, as Dean says, try to use it at f2.2 upwards. Outside you should still get pleasing backgrounds from f5.6 provided you're careful and leave a good distance between your subject and any backdrop.

It's good you're using full manual - I'm a firm believer in this being the best way to learn. As for technique, all I can tell you is what I do - some will tell you that this is 'wrong' or whatever but it works fine for me now, but everyone is different and you will find your own way too.

I only use the centre focus point when shooting portraits. For kids I find it nigh on impossible to keep track of them and change the focus points fast enough. I tried this and just missed the shot all the time. Instead I find it much more successful to track my subject with the centre point and reframe. At the right aperture (f5.6 - f8 ish) any movement is negated by the deeper DOF. I always shoot as fast as possible - usually at least 1/125. If there isn't enough light then I have to find ways of improving the light in order to achieve a good exposure. I do this with either my flash equipment or a reflector, or by moving to a place where there is more light. There is no point trying to use a slower shutterspeed or a wider aperture than optimum as the shot will be, on the whole, useless and out of focus if I do. As my 50D seems to be rubbish at high ISO I tend not to stray too far from ISO100. I may go up to ISO400 at a pinch.

As mentioned, some will tell me that this is all wrong (well it might well be :shrug:) but it now works for me and I'm quite happy with my shots taken like this. I'm now taking good sharp shots using this technique with my old manual lenses too so it can't be that wrong!

Looking at your shot above, I would suspect its a software/PP issue. I now only shoot in RAW, and I use a combination of Lightroom and CS4 to carry out any PP. I sharpen in CS4 only as I don't seem to get on with Lightroom sharpening. I use the highpass method, Dean uses Lab sharpening - we all have our favourite method. (I'll be trying the Lab mode method next though as Dean swears by it :) ) If I were you, I would try something along these lines yourself. If you haven't got CS4 then there is a free program called Gimp which is similar. (It doesn't have high pass filters built in but you can download a plugin to do it)

I would google/check the tutorials on TP etc on these methods and give them a try. I would also look at giving your shots a curves contrast tweak which is really easy to do and will improve the look of them no end. (again, google is your friend).

If you take a look at my flickr - the last few shots of my little one (who can move across a room faster than light....) these were all taken with a manual lens in the same way as described above (I used flash here to improve the light) and had minimal PP done to them.
 
Well, thats the most bizarre technique I think I've heard of, but if it works for you...
 
thanks guys - Ste, thank you, I also struggle to keep changing focus point tbh.... I've still to learn how to use a flash for fill light - but mine is the cheapy cheap one from Jessops so I think it is limited.

desantnik, which bit is bizarre, the central focus point, or the extra lighting?

Are we all agreed that the image looks softer when closer up on the eye and it needs to be sharper?
 
Well, thats the most bizarre technique I think I've heard of, but if it works for you...

I'm very intrigued - which bit is bizzare? :shrug: Everything I've discussed here is stuff I've picked up from this forum!

All I'm saying is, I only use centre point when shooting kids due to them being unpredictable and quick, and I use a smaller aperture to help me get a sharp focus. I use CS4 to sharpen via the high pass filter rather than a slider in Lightroom (or whatever) and I think Kitschenalia's shots could do with a curves tweak. :shrug:
 
David, thank you - will do that. I think I must be the biggest numpty around :-/ I was lying in bed last night, thinking WHY are my images softer when they're resized smaller, then it occurred to me - DPP shows you the image at full screen size - unless you ask it for 100% view. Oh I'm so ashamed. Of COURSE it will be blurry, it's being stretched bigger than its actual size. Please feel free to have a laugh at my expense, as long as it's a good natured one. I'm such a girl, LOVE the aesthetic side of photography but all the technical stuff takes me longer to grasp. Oh dear....

So here is a practise shot I took yesterday - of my little girl, not a cracking image due to too much hair etc. And looking at it I should have warmed the tones up, but anyway, here it is, looks sharp:

I had a go at sharpeing your 100% view in Photoshop using Unsharp Mask and it came out like this



Doesn't look too bad to me. As I said I have had images from my 50mm f1.8 that are very sharp. The ones I posted above were taken on almost £1k of glass so they have every right to be very sharp.

Not quite sure I follow your logic re the 100% display and sharp images.

When you go to 100% the screen displays each image pixel as one screen pixel. It might look soft because it represents a very large (poster size probably depending on your monitor resolution) image and you are looking at it from about 2 to 3 feet away.

So it's a very stern test of your technique and equipment, and the reason why you often see the advice "don't pixel peep".

When you have the image at less than 100% the software of whatever programe you are viewing the image with has to interpolate down the image to fit the screen view, some are better at others at this. Try viewing a big jpg in Windows Picture and Fax viewer and DPP at the same time and flick back and forth.

I will post up some images from my 50mm f1.8 if I remember when I get home.

HTH

David

PS Just noticed your camera is 15mp against my 10mp, this will also make your images appear softer as your 100% view will be even bigger, an even bigger poster if you like.
 
Its not going to be a DOF problem - even when you are 1.5m away going for a headshot with your 50mm, you still have 30cm in front and 30cm behind that will be inside the DOF.

30cm is a lot of nose/ear/hair.

Play with the calculator: http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

More likely its lens softness, come back a notch or two - should be ok by f2.8 and thats still usable indoors and able to throw the backgrounds out.

Remember that lens is the absolute cheapest piece of glass you can stick on your Canon - don't expect miracles.

Have you actually used the Canon 50mm f/1.8. I bought the f/1.4 version that is several hundreds of pound more expensive and is only a fractional bit better in IQ. The 50mm f/1.8 is usable wide open but the abberations are noticeable as is the softness - on the 1.4 wide open is more usable but certainly not night and day. stopped down the 50mm f/1.8 has got to be one of Canon's sharpest lenses!
 
thanks mrcrow, I'm not even sure MY monitor is showing things correctly but just can't stretch to callibration software at present. I think I also need to learn how to use the unsharp mask in PS...

David, thanks so much for the tips. I've done exactly as you said and am about to try and upload full size JPeg to the gallery - it's a lot sharper than when I reduce the size. Still not sure how to proceed for Flickr/Facebook/blog etc. (I want to start a blog).

I'll upload an image I took today - it's just a practise shot of my daughter, nothing special and with messy hair ;-) f4, AF One shot.

i guessed how to use this and really wasnt confident
a friend who does know gave me the setting he uses

amount 75-100
radius 1.0
threshold 4.0 levels

this is on photoshop 2...its seems to be ok for my stuff..i sometimes push the amount over 100 but you can then see the white bits appearing
just now its set at 90
 
subjective focussing and sharpening will drive you round the bend if you take it too far
look at the finished result...print...at its viewing distance and see if it meets requirements
elsewise you become a lens tech checking for quality control and damning good shots to death...
i am like that but i have to lump it with the gear i am using ...my last prints of family on 6x4 went down a treat and i thought they looked sharp enough
 
subjective focussing and sharpening will drive you round the bend if you take it too far
look at the finished result...print...at its viewing distance and see if it meets requirements
elsewise you become a lens tech checking for quality control and damning good shots to death...
i am like that but i have to lump it with the gear i am using ...my last prints of family on 6x4 went down a treat and i thought they looked sharp enough

That's very good advice :thumbs:

David
 
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