Poll , Would you contribute to the running of T.P

Are you willing to contribute ?

  • No

    Votes: 14 13.6%

  • Yes , More than happy

    Votes: 76 73.8%

  • Not sure if I should

    Votes: 8 7.8%

  • Why , It's allways been free

    Votes: 5 4.9%
  • Total voters
    103
  • Poll closed .
Even though I`m relatively new here I would still be happy to contribute to keep the forum going ..

I see it as simple as this , how much would a years subscription cost to one of the latest Photography magazines ?

The amount of information one can get from these forums from posters with years and years of experience far outweighs the cost of a small subscription/donation , you can literally pose a question in these forums covering a huge variety of subjects and receive an answer in a very short time which is something you cannot do with a magazine ..Also the amount of almost instant information than can be obtained on here about all sorts of Cameras, gear , lighting , etc etc is fantastic .. Again you cannot get that sort of benefit from a magazine

A perfect example of this would be the magazine "Digital Camera" one years subscription is £78 in the UK , $95 US .. Now although I`ve never actually subscribed to a Photo magazine I can imagine them being awash with Ad`s for the latest "must have" gear in the same sort of way it happens in the fishing Magazines ..

All that being said , if there was a choice of either a £78 per year magazine subscription OR a small donation/subscription to keep this forum running what would you choose ? ..


Coho-Blue
 
e********e charge £15 a year for membership but you don't have to subscribe to get a lot out of it. There are quite a few adverts on there but I don't think they are that intrusive. Even for free members there are instructional articles of a variety of topics, equipment reviews and a forum too. What it doesn't seem to have is a sense of camaraderie and my fear is that regardless of the pay/don't pay argument, if that is lost here then so is this forum. I think discussing whether or not people pay is premature, we proles do not know what is happening behind the scenes and until we do all this discussion is moot.

Would I pay a subscription? I shall answer like a lawyer -- it depends.
 
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Retune said:
That's a terrible idea. Random, unhinged people who wander in off the street to post their deranged ramblings are the very lifeblood of Hot Topics! If you charge, you just get the sort of people who bang on about inheritance tax at the golf club.

Why not paywall:

(1) All mirrorless vs dSLR threads.
(2) All discussions about protective UV filters.
(3) Film vs digital debates that extend beyond 30 pages.
(4) Technical discussions about the best 10 stop ND filter to blur a waterfall.
(5) Anything about football.
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6) Nikon v Canon
7) Mac v PC
 
Coho-Blue said:
The amount of information one can get from these forums from posters with years and years of experience far outweighs the cost of a small subscription/donation , you can literally pose a question in these forums covering a huge variety of subjects and receive an answer in a very short time which is something you cannot do with a magazine ..Also the amount of almost instant information than can be obtained on here about all sorts of Cameras, gear , lighting , etc etc is fantastic .. Again you cannot get that sort of benefit from a magazine
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A magazine, of course, pays its writers. How many of the contributors who are answering your questions freely today would still be around if they had to pay for the privilege? Don't assume that a paywalled forum would be anything like as useful as the site you see now. Charge a subscription and you immediately narrow the pool of available expertise. A lot of people would just go to one of the many other places where they can discuss photography online without charge. Ask for voluntary donations, though, and I think you'd get a good response.
 
On a forum I run, I have subscriptions. Its a nominal amount and apart from a user name in a different colour, a bigger PM box and a forum skin without google adsense codes, they get nothing extra - oh, they bypass the flood control for searching. There aren't any paywalled sub-forums.
 
Retune said:
sitting here in a dimly lit room, fondling my Leica.
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Fondling is good, but using it for the intended purpose gives a lot more self satisfaction


Retune said:
How many of the contributors who are answering your questions freely today would still be around if they had to pay for the privilege?
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Fair point
 
Free Member - gets adverts.

Premium Member - no adverts.

Simple.
 
I'll pay a 'reasonable' subscription - but of course that varies from person to person. I honestly don't think 20 quid a year would be unreasonable but then again I have zero idea on how much it costs to run something like this

Actually, I'd pay £100 if we could get rid of hot topics and that damn 'like' button (at least in the critique sections). The ill feeling from HT and political threads spreads quickly into other areas.

Mike
 
I can't really understand the problem with the hot topics forum. Sometimes it's good to have a nice rant, to try to put the world to rights or insult someone who disagrees with you without fear of retribution. Places like that are like brothels, you go there, you get it out of your system and you go home, sated. Surely it's better than insulting complete strangers in real life. It's good to have place where you can say things that you can't say in the real world without 'woke' people feeling they need to be offended on someone else's behalf. I love it on the rare occasions when I go there to be vilified for my views.

:cool::cool::cool:
 
ShinySideUp said:
I can't really understand the problem with the hot topics forum. Sometimes it's good to have a nice rant, to try to put the world to rights or insult someone who disagrees with you without fear of retribution
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At the top of HT is a post, by Marcel.

Marcel said:
First and foremost, the main rule in this forum is to be that of respecting each other. That bit is not up for discussion.
Due to the nature of topics such as politics and religion, this can create very divided opinions and tensions may increase among members.
That is NOT what the Talk Photography community is about. Anyone found to be derisive, directly insulting or rude to other members will find themselves suspended from the whole forum and likely permanently excluded from this particular section.
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And this is the rule that we mod it by

ShinySideUp said:
where you can say things that you can't say in the real world without 'woke' people feeling they need to be offended on someone else's behalf. I
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There is plenty of that in there too. And well well before "Woke" was a thing.
<stupid expression>
 
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I also belong to a much smaller forum dedicated to B&W photography where you are 'invited' to subscribe. There is no pressure to do so and they get all they need to pay the costs of running the site. The publish a monthly target and update it whenever they get a donation. Nearly every month the either hit the target or exceed it. I pay £10 a year which is not the price of a half decent bottle of wine. So a forum as large as this should have no problem with donations only.

We do not have a problem with abuse or rudeness either, the forum content is entirely about and for photography. Keyboard cowboys are definitely not welcome.
 
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As hot topics seems to have become a hot topic on the future of this forum.

I like the hot topics forum. It has nothing like the amount of vitriol you find in other places like Twitter or say the BBC news site forums. At least that's how it seems to me. I rarely read either platform, but have been rather appalled on the occasions that I have

In contrast to these other platforms I've learned a lot through Hot Topics.

Because of Hot Topics I've followed up links and read things I would have never read, I've heard views from people with obviously very different life experiences and backgrounds to my own, that I would never have heard and I have benefitted from the views of individuals with specialist expertise very different to my own.

I read HT because I come to the forum to read the photography content. HT is a useful bonus that I skim through regularly and I am probably a regular, but not obsessive contributor.

I interact with some members in the photographic sub-forums, as well as the hot topic sub-forum, so it "feels" more like a discussion amongst friends than the discussions I have read in other places, and that's why I contribute to it. It's easy enough to ignore if you are only interested in the photography topics on the forum. At least it is for members, not so much for moderators.

On the down side, it does lose it's way on occasions, and it seems all to easy for reasoned discussion to give way to irrational rants or antagonistic postings that can trigger aggressive responses. But by the nature of HT, people are discussing important subjects that they feel deeply about and some posts are hard for people to ignore or "just let go" even after its' obvious the time for reasoned argument has long since past. The aim of much reasoned argument (particularly in Internet forums) is not to change other peoples opinion but to explain, rationalise and test your own.

I have the benefit (or maybe dis-benefit) of being used to *academic argument*, where I can be detached from the topic under discussion, or indeed switch sides when it seems important to counter views being presented by an over confident student. Additionally, I'm a pretty easy going and tolerant, but even I can be triggered into wanting to write a less than helpful, or pointless, response. This seems to be part of human nature.

But I never send these posts (at least I don't think I do) and I delete far more posts than I send, even if I've spent some considerable time writing them. And it’s the time writing and researching posts for HT that is the down side for me.

I think it would be shame to lose it, but I don't think it's fair to put the burden of managing what can be a difficult forum onto the moderators, and that contributors to HT need to be more self critical of what and when they post.



*Although academics (and my experience is largely in the sciences) are passionate and emotionally committed to their subject, this doesn't extend to their opinions about the subject, which should remain detached and objective. As an academic you can't afford to become emotionally attached to your opinions because you know that as evidence changes, your opinions will need to change as well. Some opinions have stood up well to the test of time, but most are rather short lived.
 
How about utilising the for sale section, as a lot of cash changes hands you could put a percentage on sales ?
 
I think a small charge may be acceptable to most people, but not a percentage - that could come to a lot of money. :eek:
 
Looks like the Forum has been saved. :)
 
I clicked yes, happy to contribute. Why wouldn't I be willing to pay for something so interesting and useful?

But that depends entirely on the quality of the content, and it's worth pointing out that 100% of the content is currently 'contributed' by members (for free). Given that the amount of interesting content is closely related to the size of the membership pool, anything that reduces numbers will have consequences.

It's a conundrum, but not a new one. The best solution, the business model with the best chance of success, must already be out there.
 
Yes for me too- lets keep our little family together :)

Les
 
Unfortunately as an old age pensioner (76 yrs old) I do have to watch the pennies so unable to contribute toward the site. Hope you don't hold that against me
 
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One thing that's struck me is that there's so many people posting in this thread that I haven't come across on the forum. So many avatars that are new to me. I suppose that means I've only scratched the surface here.
 
Not to put a damper on the proceedings and I hope it doesn't, but how would any money be collected. I am sure I am not the only one but I don't have a Pay Pal account nor am I ever likely to have one. My contribution to the other forum is by cheque in the post to the forum user, but who will take the job of treasurer. Not the most popular post in most volunteer organisations.

The other forum I mentioned had a target of just £10 this month. (£20 is more a normal target)So far it is £25 so volunteer contributions do work.

It is designed to pay for the hosting of the site with the Internet company, not to pay for anyone to have a lifestyle of luxury. How many active members have we got who may contribute so the owners can work out how much would be expected to be contributed. I don't think it will be a terrific amount. So on that principal, I too will say yes.
 
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Just in case anyone in this thread hasn't seen it

Marcel said:
Just a quick note. I've not had chance to catch up with the thread yet....

However, I'd like to announce that discussions have been successful and TP will be continuing as is, with someone new at the helm.
More details soon, but I want to reassure you all that TP is not going anywhere and will stay as it is...infact you might not even notice the switch :p
Click to expand...
 
Most forums manage to sustain them selves from a mix of advertising, donations and perhaps sponsorship.
However at the moment TP is in a special time when the Forum must change hands and there are inevitable expenses that the new owners will have to face up front and probably for some little time to come before a new financial balance can be established.

I would favour a Fundraiser to cover this and would be willing to donate to this. However living on donations is not a long term solution. perhaps raise funds by selling Phoenix Membership with names shown in rainbow colours or something.
 
On the subject of the like button, I wonder how often all the people who want to get rid of it actually give feedback? As I said above the presence of a like button does not stop you giving feedback, so if you don't like the "like" button go ahead and give feedback. You never know, if you comment more it might encourage others to reciprocate.
 
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sirch said:
As I said above the presence of a like button does not stop you giving feedback,
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Agreed Chris, but as someone that has been around a long time ( +10 years as a mod) there was quite a drop in comments once the button was introduced.
( we are paid to watch these things, Paid who said paid? :D )
 
I hope the new owner will at least double TREBLE all your wages... ;)
 
Cobra said:
Agreed Chris, but as someone that has been around a long time ( +10 years as a mod) there was quite a drop in comments once the button was introduced.
( we are paid to watch these things, Paid who said paid? :D )
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There have been a lot of changes in terms of who and what is posted since I joined in 2013. There is less crit, fewer fights over art/craft, the nudes section is dead and portraits seems much quieter too. Possibly my biggest concern is that we've become an echo-chamber for certain styles.
 
Nod said:
I hope the new owner will at least double TREBLE all your wages... ;)
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Unfortunately 3 x 0 is still 0 ...


ancient_mariner said:
There have been a lot of changes in terms of who and what is posted since I joined in 2013. There is less crit, fewer fights over art/craft, the nudes section is dead and portraits seems much quieter too. Possibly my biggest concern is that we've become an echo-chamber for certain styles.
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You missed out birds :D but by and large, I think that's a fair comment.
 
ancient_mariner said:
There have been a lot of changes in terms of who and what is posted since I joined in 2013. There is less crit, fewer fights over art/craft, the nudes section is dead and portraits seems much quieter too. Possibly my biggest concern is that we've become an echo-chamber for certain styles.
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Unfortunately times change and usually for the worse. It doesn't surprise me that nudes have gone because of the modern trend towards being offended. Also, I remember years ago, and we are talking a long, long time, that you could go to a playground and take pictures of children doing what they do best but now anyone seen with a camera near a child is an instant paedophiliac. Even parents at their own children's nativity play or sports day are often requested not to take photographs. People in the street are instantly suspicious if a camera is pointed in their direction, one of the reasons I bought an X100V as they are a little more innocuous and less intimidating than a full-blown SLR, so candids carry an element of risk.

I carry on with photography despite these impediments but it is getting harder and harder unless you are a landscape photographer (and you prefer urban landscapes :cautious: as the countryside shrinks). I have noticed my dogs get photographed a lot more than they used to as they don't seem to have the same hang-ups :(.
 
Cobra said:
You missed out birds :D but by and large, I think that's a fair comment.
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I avoid birds because I'm not actually interested in the photos. :eek:

IIRC there used to be a lot of squabbling both within that area (Fracster & Brash have disappeared) and also from the arty "it's a bird on a stick" people. My feeling is that the forum gets less critique because many people who were REALLY enthusiastic about photography have mostly left, possibly because they were determined to express their views without concern for others, and the polite remainder don't really care to express their views much. I've noticed in other areas that often those who post exceptional images also have strongly held views that a certain section of the membership (who post few/no images) take considerable exception to. If we eliminate more of them it will make moderation less difficult, but the forum gets less active participation and sees duller images.


ShinySideUp said:
Unfortunately times change and usually for the worse. It doesn't surprise me that nudes have gone because of the modern trend towards being offended.
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Many of the guys shooting nudes were professionals, and the internet is awash with professionally shot photographs of naked people. :p There are still some still occasionally active on the forum that do extremely high quality nude work, but no longer post their pictures here.
 
ancient_mariner said:
IIRC there used to be a lot of squabbling both within that area (Fracster & Brash have disappeared) and also from the arty "it's a bird on a stick"
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You missed a lot of fun there Toni, it did indeed get quite nasty at times, but since the main instigators got banned, it settled down to a pleasant forum.


ancient_mariner said:
If we eliminate more of them it will make moderation less difficult,
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And I would be out of a job :D
Yes its a PITA at times, but we all knew what we were getting into :)
 
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I've been fondling my Leica's this week but I've only got one Nicca so I can't fondle Niccas...
:exit:
 
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