Beginner Prime lenses

Guys, I get it, but can we remember this is a beginners thread when commenting. Thanks :)
I know we often discuss 'qualification' to post in the business section, but I think we could do more here for beginners.

How about qualification to offer advice in the beginners section? That way threads wouldn't get derailed in this way.

It's obvious to you and I which of the answers above are the worthy responses, but for a beginner you're right, this is just a barney offering more confusion. Could there be a 'talks sense' sticker in the way we have a 'beginner' one on the thread?

I'm proud I never suggested a 'talks b****x' sticker.
 
I know we often discuss 'qualification' to post in the business section, but I think we could do more here for beginners.

How about qualification to offer advice in the beginners section? That way threads wouldn't get derailed in this way.

It's obvious to you and I which of the answers above are the worthy responses, but for a beginner you're right, this is just a barney offering more confusion. Could there be a 'talks sense' sticker in the way we have a 'beginner' one on the thread?

I'm proud I never suggested a 'talks b****x' sticker.

This is actually exactly the kind of thing we need an unbiased resource tutorial for, explaining what both kinds of lenses are, pros and cons of each, etc. I still remember many many years ago hearing the phrase 'fast lens' and wondering what the hell that meant. We already have quite a few which we can point beginners to which can stop threads like this derailing [or rather, give us plenty of latitude to stop it because the various 'opinions' are not needed]

So, if anyone fancies writing one, let us know ;)
 
This is actually exactly the kind of thing we need an unbiased resource tutorial for, explaining what both kinds of lenses are, pros and cons of each, etc. I still remember many many years ago hearing the phrase 'fast lens' and wondering what the hell that meant. We already have quite a few which we can point beginners to which can stop threads like this derailing [or rather, give us plenty of latitude to stop it because the various 'opinions' are not needed]

So, if anyone fancies writing one, let us know ;)

Good idea, how about a few trusted people becoming TP Mentors, identified by a little logo on the avatar, to help and assist new members ? We can turn a negative into a positive ( no pun intended ) :)
 
This is actually exactly the kind of thing we need an unbiased resource tutorial for, explaining what both kinds of lenses are, pros and cons of each, etc. I still remember many many years ago hearing the phrase 'fast lens' and wondering what the hell that meant. We already have quite a few which we can point beginners to which can stop threads like this derailing [or rather, give us plenty of latitude to stop it because the various 'opinions' are not needed]

So, if anyone fancies writing one, let us know ;)
Mmm!

You should have an ask around. :)
 
Good idea, how about a few trusted people becoming TP Mentors, identified by a little logo on the avatar, to help and assist new members ? We can turn a negative into a positive ( no pun intended ) :)

Funnily enough such a thing has been under discussion in the staffroom. There are some issues, but it is an idea that has some merit.

Mmm!

You should have an ask around. :)

Should I? :p


;)
 
Funnily enough such a thing has been under discussion in the staffroom. There are some issues, but it is an idea that has some merit.



Should I? :p


;)

Feel free to put my name down and I'm sure Phil will also be happy to oblige although obviously I can't answer for him.
 
It's a tricky one, because whilst I might be a gobs***e, I believe there are tons of people here much better qualified to write tutorials.

Is there a list of topics? There might be something I know a bit about.
 
Is there a list of topics? There might be something I know a bit about.

Be good to know what specifically you are after Yvonne?

I`m no expert in the science of photography,but have others areas of knowledge.
 
It's a tricky one, because whilst I might be a gobs***e, I believe there are tons of people here much better qualified to write tutorials.

Is there a list of topics? There might be something I know a bit about.

I am going to do a proper thread on it at some point Phil, I need to find out first about copying some existing ones from tutorial section over into the resource section, which is incredibly underused at the moment. Once I have that, I can go through existing ones and then we can all start looking at what needs adding, I am just pretty certain there isn't a simple prime/zoom/macro/oddity lens guide that is simple for people new to cameras with interchangeable lenses would understand.
 
For what it's worth @Phil V I would be happy to read and digest any tutorial written by your good self.

There are maybe 5 people on this forum whose posts I always read, and you are one of them.

Right, that's enough creeping for one day. I'm off to find someone to be nasty to.

:)
 
Could there be a 'talks sense' sticker in the way we have a 'beginner' one on the thread?

I'm proud I never suggested a 'talks b****x' sticker.

this is good - otherwise I'd need both

we'd need "sometimes makes sense" and " spouts utter crap at all times" sub stickers to make the differention between people like wot I am and, erm... other people
 
this is good - otherwise I'd need both

we'd need "sometimes makes sense" and " spouts utter crap at all times" sub stickers to make the differention between people like wot I am and, erm... other people

Nah, we can just change your user title to "spouts utter crap at all times", job done :D
 
Is there a list of topics? .

Be good to know what specifically you are after Yvonne?
.

Thirded as i mentioned in the other thread about Biz tutorials ... its a lot easier to pick something off the list and write knowing it will be needed than it is conjure up a topic and right it on spec
 
Nah, we can just change your user title to "spouts utter crap at all times", job done :D

It couldnt be worse that my current user title ... however I do occasionally make sense (generally when not posting in OOF)
 
So, if anyone fancies writing one, let us know ;)

Ive got one somewhere i wrote about begginer options for macro photography a while back... I could polish that up if you'd like
 
Ive got one somewhere i wrote about begginer options for macro photography a while back... I could polish that up if you'd like

leave it with me Pete, getting our tutorials and resources up and running more pro-actively is my christmas/nights of insomnia project, so once I have a better idea of what we have [RobP used to do all the tutorial stuff, so need to catch up on it] I can hopefully come up with a list of 'needs'. Business is a little different, I would prefer the 'experience' in there to choose what needs doing and what folks are comfortable writing about rather giving a specific list. But we can discuss that over there. ;)
 
This is actually exactly the kind of thing we need an unbiased resource tutorial for, explaining what both kinds of lenses are, pros and cons of each, etc. I still remember many many years ago hearing the phrase 'fast lens' and wondering what the hell that meant. We already have quite a few which we can point beginners to which can stop threads like this derailing [or rather, give us plenty of latitude to stop it because the various 'opinions' are not needed]

So, if anyone fancies writing one, let us know ;)
Fix the t's and c's and you might get more tutorials.. just sayin'..
 
getting our tutorials and resources up and running more pro-actively is my christmas/nights of insomnia project,

so its going to be "Yv's short list" then ? .... I'm saying nuthin :ROFLMAO: :exit:

Fix the t's and c's and you might get more tutorials.. just sayin'..

what's up with the T&C :confused:
 
Ive got one somewhere i wrote about begginer options for macro photography a while back... I could polish that up if you'd like
There is a draft thread in Macro that the guys in there are putting together,
Beating out the wrinkles etc.
But I'm sure they'd welcome more in put
 
Don't know if this helps the OP much as I've hardly ever used a zoom lens, the reason being based on the following (possibly flawed) thinking:

If I have a 'fast' 50mm prime lens, of say f1.4, the usual talk is that when stopped down a couple of times, the lens reaches more of it's potential and I am still only at f2.8 whereas a reasonably priced zoom lens with a range of, say, 28-80mm, has a maximum aperture f3.5-f5.5. If I used the same thinking then I am going to stop the lens down a couple of times and at the same focal length of 50mm I suppose I am looking at an aperture of f4, stopped down twice makes it f8 so I am getting three times the light with my prime lens at the equivalent lens quality.

I suppose that may be woolly thinking but that's the way I have it in my head.

One last thing though about the 'nifty fifty' 50mm lens. I use my 28mm more than my 50mm and I only bought the 50 because I had a DX camera and that gave me a cheap but excellent portrait lens of 75mm equivalent. Now I've got an FX full frame camera I hardly ever use the 50mm at all.
 
As I see it, deciding the level at which any tutorial should be pitched is if not the the biggest challenge, is a significant one.. This post is a good example. My initial post was apparently pitched too high for a beginner as another member offered a translation of what I'd written. Had I chosen to to reply in more simple terms, I would not have been surprised to see someone calling that an over simplification.

It's also quite astonishing how quickly posts like this degenerate into slanging matches between members. Not unique to this forum either, happens in other places I drop into... Hmm... Maybe it's me! :)
 
As I see it, deciding the level at which any tutorial should be pitched is if not the the biggest challenge, is a significant one.. This post is a good example. My initial post was apparently pitched too high for a beginner as another member offered a translation of what I'd written. Had I chosen to to reply in more simple terms, I would not have been surprised to see someone calling that an over simplification.
TBH if I see "beginner" I assume little or no knowledge and go for a very basic response.
If they say, actually I knew that, what I meant was.........
Then I'd step it up a gear.
But I know exactly what you are saying ;)


It's also quite astonishing how quickly posts like this degenerate into slanging matches between members. Not unique to this forum either, happens in other places I drop into... Hmm... Maybe it's me! :)
Kids Eh? :D
 
what's up with the T&C :confused:

It was more than a little bit "we respect photos - but all your wordz belong us", but it seems to have been toned down a little (didn't see that change advertised) but it's still badly worded. It's not a discussion for this thread though, it's been discussed (to death) elsewhere in the past.
 
not noticed that - though tbh if i was writing a guide for a forum I'd expect them to take the copyright, if only so that the guide section doesnt get trashed by people deleting guides whe they throw their teddies
 
not noticed that - though tbh if i was writing a guide for a forum I'd expect them to take the copyright, if only so that the guide section doesnt get trashed by people deleting guides whe they throw their teddies
It's the "any other media" bit that's the problem - nothing wrong with a perpetual license to reuse in the various guises a forum may take as it upgrades, but effectively including the publishing rights for a book (or any other publication) is unnecessary in my opinion - but as I said, not relevant to the original post in this thread. Maybe I'm just overcautious - but we're shaped by our experiences and I've seen long, extensive and very well respected tutorials written on a completely unrelated forum being regarded as assets of the forum when it was sold by the original owner (very nice man, knew him personally over several years) to a complete p***k (who I also knew personally, would've pawned his mother if anyone would have lent him money against her). Which incidentally led to the best coordinated online "dummy spit" I've ever seen.
 
I but effectively including the publishing rights for a book (or any other publication) is unnecessary in my opinion -
Basically it covers the Proverbial when printing the POTY winners book prizes.
And publishing the TP day slide show etc
 
In times gone by it was easy to lead a beginner box camera user through to the delights of serious photography.
It was a well trodden path with wel known and well defined stages.

The digital age has introduced new problems.... first of all the beginner is probably already taking technically decent shots, thanks mostly to the inbuilt technology and firmware. It can be diffficult to convince some of these new comers that they need to start thinking from square one again.

In their own mind they hope to start from where the expert program's built into their cameras leave off.
unfortunately this can never be the case, if there is to be any hope of them making progress.
first they must learn some of what their camera already 'knows' in other words, there is a lot of basics to catch up on.

I have noticed that there are a number of excellent photographers on this forum who only have the haziest idea about the technical side of photography. There are perhaps an equal number who think they know far more than they actually do, and sometimes substitute old wives tales for scientific reality.

It must be really difficult for new beginners to see the wood for the trees, let alone formulate a learning stratagem that will not fill holes in their knowledge with a mixture of false ideas and true facts.

There have been some excellent 'starter' books written in the past. That they are mostly about film is no problem, as they cover the very same basics as we use today with our digital cameras. And unlike the WEB rarely contain all the misinformation we see repeatedly posted. It is this repeating and regurgitation of wrong information that is so dangerous to understanding.
 
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I know we often discuss 'qualification' to post in the business section, but I think we could do more here for beginners.

How about qualification to offer advice in the beginners section? That way threads wouldn't get derailed in this way.

It's obvious to you and I which of the answers above are the worthy responses, but for a beginner you're right, this is just a barney offering more confusion. Could there be a 'talks sense' sticker in the way we have a 'beginner' one on the thread?

One of the issues is that some things are substantiated fact and others are a matter of choice and various options could work.

One thing that could be done is to have some people offer to do beginners days - not talking about paid workshops, just a meet up and demo, explain etc. I have done a number at camera clubs and it makes a huge difference when people can actually see things.

Mike
 
My 2p on the original topic.

Having owned some nice, modern zoom lenses along the way, I use primes almost exclusively these days.

Many of their advantages have already been touched upon (smaller, lighter, and/or wider apertures than comparable zooms).

It is true that with computer-aided design, modern zooms are far, far better than they were when I started out in photography over thirty years ago. Then again, for various other reasons, I prefer to use manual focus lenses that are thirty to fifty years old, so much of that is of little relevance to me today :)

I tend to previsualise my shots well before I put the camera to my eye; that is, I am composing the image in my mind and thinking about how I will want the lens to render it (primarily depth of field, but I will take account of how out of focus elements may appear at different apertures).


Panther by -cybertect-
[ Canon FD 50mm f/1.4 ]

If I am working with a small selection of prime lenses at any one time, then I can afford to get very well acquainted with their field of view, and predict where the subject, edges of the frame and focus will fall.


Behind the Curve by -cybertect-
[ Canon FD 85mm f/1.2 ]

I find the discipline of having a fixed focal length allows me to concentrate on looking for the picture I can take with the lens(es) have at hand. It's the looking well that is most important, being aware of what is around you and where the photographic opportunities lie.


Morning at Blackfriars by -cybertect-
[ Canon FD 50mm f/1.4 ]

Looking well and knowing how a picture will be framed allows you to think ahead and plan where and when you will be to take a shot that captures a moment.

Waiting for the Great Leap Downward by -cybertect-
[ Canon FD 50mm f/1.4 ]

With a zoom, especially a wide range zoom, you have far greater degrees of freedom, but, for me at least, I'm mentally less tuned in to my surroundings as a result, my visual thinking becomes sloppier and I 'see' less well. There are too many variables to juggle at once.


Shadow on Setts by -cybertect-
[ Canon FD 50mm f/1.4 ]

I tend to reserve the use of the zooms I do own to family days out where I'm likely to keep more of an eye on what my 7 year old is up to than taking photographs.

Flag Day by -cybertect-
[ Canon FDn 35-105mm f/3.5 ]
 
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The T&Cs are there to do the following:
stop people deleting their content
stop other people copying the forums
ensure all members retain copyright on their work, pictures or text.
I dont see what the issue is. I realise that some people may not like the bit about reproducing in any media, but we need to have that as we do photobooks and might in future want to do leaflets, adverts or other promotional materials. There is no intention to sell anything.
 
I use both, primes and zooms both have there place. Depends if you like the usefulness of the zoom or a prime. With primes, even if they are too wide, you can crop a little off. The problem is if they are too long, but if you carry a range, you are ok.
 
I only ever use primes. Er... before I get jumped on for being some kind of fundamentalist, the reason is that I mainly shoot on older film cameras, and yes, some of the older primes are cracking lenses - and are fast in every sense in the street. Neither do they look like dangerous weapons of mass privacy invasion. Even when I use a DSLR, I use primes - it is simply what I am use to.

It is down to personal style of photography.
 
As a beginner, the kit you have will almost certainly be 'better' than you are. The biggest limitations to most people's photography isn't the hardware; it's the 'imagination' to see a picture worth capturing; the dexterity to capture it, and the time ad opportunity to do so...

Hence the many camera widows, grumbling about how many cameras we all have knocking about, totally unsympathetic to why going out and walking around a stately home or something 'out of season' is more important than another visit to Dunelm to choose new wall-paper.... as we try and 'make' opportunity to use the kit we got, and find the inspiration to 'see' a picture worth capturing, and develop the dexterity to d so... you HAVE been warned.... but, practice-practice-practice is the only way, really, and money spent, getting out ad dong, is likely to do more for you than any amount of money spent on more 'kit' that'll take time away from using that bit you already have, as much as you can, as well as you can.

You're 18-55 'kit' lens is a very good bit of kit for the money; bundled with almost every DX camera Nikon sell, it benefits from a huge economy of scale to make it as good as they can for the money, that they just don't have in other,less popular lenses, and they have to, as its the lens thier camera is most likely goig to be judged on. The only real 'shortcoming' it has, as far as you need be concerned, is that it is, in compact camera terms only a 3x zoom... ie has a relatively short range between wide-angle and tele-photo..

Damn useful one though, and the range probably most used for most general photography; And, I would stab that few would really miss anything much wider than its 18 end, and an awful lot would do better missing anything much longer.... more 'magnification' a zoom lens gives, making something bigger in the picture, so the more critical 'framing' your shot tends to be, holding the camera rock steady, or using a support becomes and using fast enough shutter speeds, that any movement the frame or camera doesn't cause 'blurring' across the picture..

So while it might be a bit limited by that zoom range, that needn't be a draw-back; turn it to your advantage; recognise that its encouraging you to think 'how' to get the picture you want, rather than expecting to be able to twiddle a knob ad the camera just give it you, whether it's 'zoom with your feet' and get closer to the subject to make it larger in the picture, or to find a better angle to get more in the shot; and while its doing that; its also pretty tolerant of error and undemanding of expertise; helping you develop your 'eye', its also helping you avoid too may duffers...

PRIMES.. non-zoom lenses. As has bee said, twist the zoom ring to about the middle, on your 18-55 and leave it there; you have the same angle of coverage that a 35mm 'prime' would offer... actually, just had a quick look at mine and the 35mm focal length is actually marked on the ring! But on a prime, that's all you got; you cant go wider or nearer at the twist of a ring.

And as has bee said; 'usually' reason people buy primes, is that they have a 'special reason' for wanting one, where they have run out of versatility on the kit zoom, and a 'prime' lens, being simpler in construction, is often cheaper and easier to make, so the most cost effective way of getting whatever 'extra' is being sought. Be it a more 'wide angle' or more 'telephoto' or some idea of 'better optical resolution'.

Common, reason though is for a 'faster' aperture. The main difference between the kit 18-55 lens set to 35mm and the Nikon AF-S 35mm f1.8 DX, mentioned, is that number f1.8, which is the 'maximum aperture size'.. and on the 18-55, a quick check on mine suggests that the 'max' aperture at 35mm is f5. In short, this can, if set that far open, let more light through the lens, which can allow photos in lower light, or as mentioned to get greater control over 'Depth of Focus'..

Old adage... if you have to ask, you either don't need it, and/or you cant afford it!

So, as a 'type' primes MAY at some point be of interest or use to you; IF you ever get to a point that you are trying to take pictures that challenge the kit lenses 'all round' capability for which a more 'specialist' lens may be appropriate or essential to get what you are looking for... but just one feature of a lens whether its focal length can be varied; it's more likely that you will want wider or longer lenses, before you want better or faster ones, and either way, its all an 'expensive' triangle, balancing the features with needs and wants with money in your pocket!

And for now, as said, if you have any burning a hole; use it to go places; take photos, and find OUT what you can do with the thing for yourself, and where YOU feel the lens may be letting you down.. if at all.

As said, just picked mine up to check as I typed; its sat on the front of my camera, as it is the 'most used', and 'most useful' and for what it does and what it costs, I, certainly have little compulsion to chuck it away in favour of anything else in any hurry...

So if you heed advice and go do; most useful 'stuff' to add to your kit is likely to be more memory cards, so you can take more photos.. more spare battery packs, so you can stay out longer and take more photos..... and a tripod!

Seriously, top tip; for ten years, with digital SLR's still too pricey for my blood, and 'kids', making lugging film SLRs about and giving them and childs the attention they need, I have done most of my picture taking with a pretty cheap, 5Mpix 3x zoom compact; and a little tripod has bee FAR more use getting the most out of it or pushing its capability, than biting the bullet to get a DSLR has! Sure it COULD and possibly does, help me take better photo's, more easily.... BUT... I still have to get out and go places and see stuff worth taking pictures of to get'em.. and tripod STILL helps get the most out of it, before looking for 'more' in alternative lenses...

TL DR - youn eed more PICTURES.. not more 'stuff' in the camera bag.
 
good post mike - but probably wasted as silvio hasnt been bacxk to his thread since his first post, and hasnt been on the forum since dec 10

may be you could cut and paste it into a guide for that secion yv was talking about ;)
 
Welcome back Teffers :)
 
Well may I suggest that the op uses the lens he has over a period of time then checks his exif dater on the shots he has taken.

From there he can determine what focal length he is mostly using. He could then get a decent prime at that focal length and compare the difference.
As he builds his confidence and know how he will then be able to make decisions on what type or make of lens he requires then ask the more professional users for their advice on how well specific lenses compare.
 
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