"Profiteering" ...............not.

Galaxy66

Galaxy66

Jeremy Beadle
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My name is Mal not Jeremy :)
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Due to the recent and forthcoming price increases there have been a few criticisms of the prices being asked in forums for S/H items referring to this as profiteering.

I see nothing wrong in this and if were to sell anything I will ask the market price for it, which will be based on the new price at the time regardless
of what I have paid for it, which would have been the market price then. If you do not like the price then look elsewhere. What if I were selling to fund an upgrade? I would then have to pay the increased prices wouldn't I.

I have even seen increases in prices of current S/H stock in dealers listings.

S/H prices can also be dictated by the scarcity of the item.

One member, to prove the same point I am making asked another, would he sell his house at the price he paid for it 20 years ago?.

It is called market forces

Mods, not quite sure of the best section but thought this to be the best one, if you consider it to be in the wrong section, sorry.
 
Galaxy, I quite agree - this was what I touched on in the other thread.

It is the RIGHT of the seller to charge what the heck they like, and it's the right of the buyer to decide whether that is a fair and reasonable price or not.

Cheers,
James
 
Galaxy66 said:
Said stuff in the first post!
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Hear Hear!

The seller lists the price he wants to sell it for, if the buyer doesn't like it, go somewhere else! With the price rises that are ongoing at the moment, second-hand values will shoot up as well!

I could sell my 100-300mm f/4 for more than I paid for it a year ago...(but I'm in love with it, and would never sell it;))
 
Whilst I agree with this in principle where it is in danger of becoming an issue is with forums such as this one with specific trading rules. The rules dictate that if you buy an item from the classifieds you should not look to sell it on for an inflated price on the same forum.

There has already been a case of this on here where the ad was quite rightly pulled.
 
Crikey, imagine what Canon Bob could do if he sold all his gear - retire !!! (yes, I know he has already..)
I am in total agreement, and might just start looking at what I have to move along...
 
sdb123 - having clearly not read the rules thoroughly enough, what constitutes an inflated price ? Is there a set figues (and what I might sell was bought elsewhere, mainly new..!)
 
I agree with Galaxy66
If I sell something I will be wanting to put the money towards buying something else
As such I will need to get the appropriate price for my sale in order to be able to afford whatever I am buying.
Makes no sense for me to sell my 100-300 F4 at £400 (The price used ones were 3 months ago) when I need to spend an extra £150 on the 120-300. No, I think the use market prices will always be dicatated by the new prices and we have to adapt when new prices change.
 
steveinspain said:
sdb123 - having clearly not read the rules thoroughly enough, what constitutes an inflated price ? Is there a set figues (and what I might sell was bought elsewhere, mainly new..!)
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If anything was bought outside the forum then you can sell it on here for the figure you see fit.
 
hepburn said:
so you're not selling your 10-20 siggy cheap now eh Mal? :lol:
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When I do it will definitely be more than what I paid for it and it will sell for the fair market price at the time:)
 
more or less said this in the sale section with a lot saying HOW MUCH to the seller, as I said the pound is now at a low and worth less than when he bought the item, so he can ask as he wishes.

If the price is to high he will not sell, but Lets check the New price now ,first before calling people......:(
 
towershot said:
more or less said this in the sale section with a lot saying HOW MUCH to the seller, as I said the pound is now at a low and worth less than when he bought the item, so he can ask as he wishes.

If the price is to high he will not sell, but Lets check the New price now ,first before calling people......:(
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To be fair though the pound being low doesn't affect the seller unless they were from outside the UK, does it?
 
If I bought something from this forum, and the price I paid clearly noted in the thread open for anyone to view, I don't feel its ethical personally, to sell that item 3 months later on the same forum for profit, when I say profit, I don't mean the odd few quid here or there.
I wouldn't do it personally, its a forum not a business trading post, forgo the forum protection that you used to buy the item, and don't use it again to make money, flog it on Ebay or something, you'll still get you're dosh if the increase is valid.
 
It's a capitalist society, sell it for what you want, buy it if it has value to you, but keep in mind that if it's digital then the quality we have now is going to be so much better in a couple of years time.
 
sdb123 said:
To be fair though the pound being low doesn't affect the seller unless they were from outside the UK, does it?
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Look at it this way, if he paid £100 pounds for it and the price was now £150
He should sell for £120 ish , he can then buy the new lens he wants which was £90 but is now £115 he gains on one but pays it back on the other.

Really no gain to him, but if he sells for around £70 or £80 he has lost money...
 
With the price of camera gear increasing, is it still classed as profit or increase due to market trends.
 
peoples selling price is nothing to do with the site staff, if you think its too much, dont buy it!
 
Huujuu said:
It's a capitalist society, sell it for what you want, buy it if it has value to you
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And that is the global problem - too many capitalist contries with no competition.

A major financial guru (can't remember who) was strongly for the left wing way of life, but after the USSR collapsed he had the foresight to predict the collapse of capitalism within 50 years due to the lack of a polar opposite - anything is about balance and unfortunately too much of anything is bad
 
These particular scenarios don't bother me. As long as the goods are cheaper than brand new, then I'll judge whether it's worth it or not. What does bother me is when something is in short demand, and someone has got hold of one, or a few, with the intention of profiteering. A good example of this, although not photography related, was the Wii fit. Someone on here tried to sell one a while ago, for well above new price. I recall there were a few objections, including from me.
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
And that is the global problem - too many capitalist contries with no competition.

A major financial guru (can't remember who) was strongly for the left wing way of life, but after the USSR collapsed he had the foresight to predict the collapse of capitalism within 50 years due to the lack of a polar opposite - anything is about balance and unfortunately too much of anything is bad
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not sure how that logic works, the death of a impoverishing communism is a bad thing for the rest of the world.

But nevertheless, now if you bought sumthing for 200 quid used it and common decency is to claw your money back. now due to the current trend of gears going up. i think depends on the situation. this is how it works.

Like all things, new items have depreciations. so as soon as you touch it, it will lose some value. I would say a second hand lens is probably about 15-20% less than a new lens. so base on this. the price of a true second hand shouldn't be the same or near the same as the new ones selling now with inflated prices. at best you should be selling at the price you bought. This is not profiteering as you are just getting your money back but with a flipping good deal. if you do sell it over the price you paid then i think it is profiteering. as a consumer in UK the pound in North Irland and Scotland hasn't risen or fall against the pound in London. So how can you justify raising the price up and above the price you paid initially other than the fact you want a bit extra dosh.

I mean, for christsake, it's not a nice word profiteering but damn right when the people are selling the stuff, they are thinking "hmmm money to be made here" and damn right all of you who is going to be in the situation is more than likely try to make as much out of it as possible. And i am not excluding myself. but then again, i am not likely to sell any of my stuff for the foreseeable future. but this does put an upward pressure on people who are looking for second hand stuff thinking they will be affordable.

Anyway, now the subject of third hand and even 4th hand stuff. it is obviously a bit more complicated. however if you are a very very nice person and you are looking to offload excess gears then you probably wouldn't sell it for more than what you paid. Now if you are an average person, like most, who is looking to sell gears to upgrade, then selling over and above the price you paid, i think is fairly reasonable, as somehow you need to paid for the inflation differential.

So if you bought new last year and try to sell it at new price this year, then damn right you are a profiteering greedy capitalist :P.

but otherwise everyone is trying to scrap by in this crazy world. and the final rule always applies, you should always know how deep is your pocket and buy accordingly.

That was a bloody long rant. and it's late! and i have noticed a lot of second hand quality lenses been bought at much higher prices than usual on ebay, i think there might be a lot of shops trying to cash in on this as well. One example, Jacobs in Oxford Street, saw an second hand sigma 70-200 EX DG HSM macro before xmas, quoted for £450, at that time i could have got second hand around 350-400. then saw the same lens still there a few weeks ago. Ask the price...£600. I laughed at them. Then knowing someone might actually buy that, thought that's how they actually stay in business in the recession!
 
I think we have to make a definite distinction between stuff bought here, and stuff bought elsewhere.
This isn't ebay, I don't feel its function is to make money for non trader members, often items are sold and include a special price/dispensation created by forum camaraderie, that doesn't exist outside the forum.
I've sold stuff on this basis and would be pretty ****ed off if those items came back here with a 30% mark up on the strength of what is happening to prices on the open market.
Needless to say, I wouldn't have sold the thing if I thought someone would try to make money out of my/the forums good nature.
 
joxby said:
I think we have to make a definite distinction between stuff bought here, and stuff bought elsewhere.
This isn't ebay, I don't feel its function is to make money for non trader members, often items are sold and include a special price/dispensation created by forum camaraderie, that doesn't exist outside the forum.
I've sold stuff on this basis and would be pretty ****ed off if those items came back here with a 30% mark up on the strength of what is happening to prices on the open market.
Needless to say, I wouldn't have sold the thing if I thought someone would try to make money out of my/the forums good nature.
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Well said, joxby.
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
 
joxby said:
I think we have to make a definite distinction between stuff bought here, and stuff bought elsewhere.
This isn't ebay, I don't feel its function is to make money for non trader members, often items are sold and include a special price/dispensation created by forum camaraderie, that doesn't exist outside the forum.
I've sold stuff on this basis and would be pretty ****ed off if those items came back here with a 30% mark up on the strength of what is happening to prices on the open market.
Needless to say, I wouldn't have sold the thing if I thought someone would try to make money out of my/the forums good nature.
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A very good point and probabley true 12-18 months ago
when "we" were small-ish and a lot of people knew a lot of others
but with over 10,000 (plus?) members I am not so sure that it would still work that way,
I wish it did thoug,h but with human nature being what it is ......................
 
surely if something is bought at the going s/h rate which doubles at a later date it would be foolish to sell it at the original price?
 
Seller sets their asking price

prospective Buyer decides if they want to buy at that price

Simple
 
sdb123 said:
To be fair though the pound being low doesn't affect the seller unless they were from outside the UK, does it?
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Of course it does... its not about where the seller lives, its about the currency exchange rates for the retailers/manufacturers.

For items manufactured in the Euro zone but sold in the UK this rule would apply...

If an item was worth 130 euro about 6 months ago, when the exchange rate was 1.30euro/£1 then that item would cost £100... Simple... but if that same item cost 130 euro now, then the cost to a UK buyer would be closer to £130 at almost 1:1 exchange rate.

The same rule would apply to items manufatured in USA China and Japan and most other countries where the currency is stronger vs the pound.

Therefore, as a the price of a new item increased, the equivalent value of SH items would increase accordingly. This is because, they are in greater demand, due to both increase in price of the new items, and increase in demand of the SH items.

I know I'm quoting an old post, just wanted to add my opinion.
 
I've noticed some 'optimistic' 2nd hand prices recently but forums like this are still where the best genuine deals are to be had. Prices on ebay are getting higher everyday. I've just sold 2 lenses on there and got a fair bit more than I expected and in one case pretty damn close to the new price. That extra money still hasn't covered the new price on my new lens purchase though.
 
mho said:
Seller sets their asking price

prospective Buyer decides if they want to buy at that price

Simple
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Exactly, if you don't like the asking price then move on (as it were). If an item is priced too high it won't sell.

Now eBay... that is a law unto itself!!
 
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