Pros don't use primes

Of course Alan, but the ends of the spectrum here are (given you've managed to get the job):

Nice guy in suit with some cameras and lenses and stuff
Or
Nice guy in suit with some cameras and lenses and stuff

Because the customer doesn't know the difference between a Sigma 2.8 zoom or a Canon one, a 70d or a 5dIII, our customers aren't that savvy, we're shooting with 'pro cameras' because a big lens sticks out the front.

Of course despite the quality, you might look a bit 'amateur' with a CSC held at arms length. ;)
 
Phil V said:
And this is why your questions should be asked in the business section...

To avoid this complete nonsense.
Apologies Robin, but the confidence comes from knowing you can deliver the brief because you have the knowledge and skills required. What's the Jack Nicklaus quote about being lucky?

Of course it's nice to have good gear, but it's so insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Click to expand...

Pookeyhead said:
I never got that argument. How does having a "Pro" camera make you more confident? I'd know that it wouldn't make my photography any better, so where would the confidence come from?
Click to expand...

....Definitely a case of if I have to explain you wouldn't understand :rolleyes:
 
RedRobin said:
....Definitely a case of if I have to explain you wouldn't understand :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


If you don't explain, then I'll certainly never understand. You must realise though, that more expensive equipment isn't going to help your photography, so the only confidence boost can come from the belief that OTHERS will take you more seriously if you have better gear.. but they won't. only other gear obsessed amateurs will be impressed. Who cares what THEY think? Seriously.... confidence, like Phil said, comes from knowing your stuff, and knowing your work is strong. If you think you're s**t, you'll still think you're s**t with a better camera.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
If you don't explain, then I'll certainly never understand. You must realise though, that more expensive equipment isn't going to help your photography, so the only confidence boost can come from the belief that OTHERS will take you more seriously if you have better gear.. but they won't. only other gear obsessed amateurs will be impressed. Who cares what THEY think? Seriously.... confidence, like Phil said, comes from knowing your stuff, and knowing your work is strong. If you think you're s**t, you'll still think you're s**t with a better camera.
Click to expand...

....Agreed. And particularly about not caring what others think.

In an effort to explain my earlier post, when you use camera gear (or indeed any piece of equipment such as a racing bike or a car for example) which is professional quality it inspires and boosts confidence in what results you might be capable of achieving. As I said earlier, it does NOT guarantee you better results.
 
RedRobin said:
In an effort to explain my earlier post, when you use camera gear (or indeed any piece of equipment such as a racing bike or a car for example) which is professional quality it inspires and boosts confidence in what results you might be capable of achieving. As I said earlier, it does NOT guarantee you better results.
Click to expand...

So you'd spend thousands of pounds just in order to feel that you might be able to take better photographs, even when you actually know it won't?

Your money. :)
 
Pros don't use primes? Tell that to Darren Heath, arguably the worlds best F1 photographer. He makes good use of the Canon 600mm amongst others.

http://www.darrenheath.com

Good website too.
 
This pro v am debate seems to resonate more in photography than many other spheres of business. Why?

Is it a basic insecurity or people posing?

Next time you visit your dentist, ask if he is an amateur or a professional.

Did your doctor get a first class degree as part of his qualification or was it merely a third? And in that respect is someone with the ability to be academic a better physician than one who has good practical clinical skills and a good bedside manner?

If you know your stuff and produce the goods none of it matters. Professional is about delivering a service/product in line with your contract. Do so and get paid.

'Nuff said.
 
Been at a big wedding over the weekend and one of the film crew was using a Nikon crop camera and a kit lens to take videos of the tables. Shock? Horror?

Well the crew must have had £50k plus equipment with them including canon full frame slrs and a sony video camera that costs more than a family car.

Point of my post is same as in your other thread, cameras are tools to do a job and if a prime or a crop works then so be it.

don't forget that you don't always need the exact tool for the job, a screwdriver can be used as a lever and a hole punch etc etc.
 
The difference between a pro & an amateur..

A Pro can get good results from any equipment,

an Amateur can't.
 
shreds said:
This pro v am debate seems to resonate more in photography than many other spheres of business. Why?

.
Click to expand...

Because amateurs regard the hobby of photography as a competitive sport, and they think they can just throw money at it and get results.

I'd love to see some stats on this, but I reckon most pro gear is actually bought by amateurs thees days. That's great for keeping prices down, so let them keep on deluding themselves so I can continue reaping the rewards of their foolishness :)

Shhhhh! :)
 
shreds said:
This pro v am debate seems to resonate more in photography than many other spheres of business. Why?
Click to expand...

You tend not to get many amateur doctors/dentists doing their work for free. I know this reason doesn't apply equally to all genres of photography, but I would have thought most get hit by this to some degree.
 
Diving Pete said:
The difference between a pro & an amateur..

A Pro can get good results from any equipment,

an Amateur can't.
Click to expand...
Thats crap, there are thousands of amateurs who produce top notch images with less than top end epuipment, just because an amateur chooses not to take photos for a living doesn't make him any less able than a pro who earns his living from taking photos, and as ive said on aother thread, being a pro doesnt mean you are any good, there are thousands od pros earning a living who produce absolute s***e images, you only need to look at the protfolios of some pros on here to see this.
 
I don't care what other photographer use pro or amateur,i know what lens and cameras suit me.

At the end of the day cameras,lens, are a tool a manufacture product,if only people who took great photos brought the product the prices would be sky high,the more who buy keeps manufacturing costs down,and price lower,i can live with that :)
 
Pookeyhead said:
I'd love to see some stats on this, but I reckon most pro gear is actually bought by amateurs thees days. That's great for keeping prices down, so let them keep on deluding themselves so I can continue reaping the rewards of their foolishness :)
Click to expand...

There's a winning attitude...
 
Wow - this has been an eye opener.

I had no idea that some people buy kit to look good or make themselves feel good.

If I paid top dollar for pro gear I'd feel like a t***.
 
Pookeyhead said:
So you'd spend thousands of pounds just in order to feel that you might be able to take better photographs, even when you actually know it won't?

Your money. :)
Click to expand...

....No! That isn't what I said and you well know it, buddy!

Better camera gear will POTENTIALLY yield better results is what I said. And I also said that better camera gear won't GUARANTEE better results. Duh! You can read can you?

If my camera gear is expensive it's primarily because it's what I choose to best suit what I enjoy photographing - It has optical quality, is durable outdoors, and reliable. If I ADDITIONALLY derive a placebo of self-confidence from using it then that's a bonus. Perhaps you have never done anything in your life which has taught you the value of what self-confidence can bring. Also it sounds as if you have no understanding of the deeper relationships between man and machine.

Thank goodness I am an amateur and am not tethered to having to photograph what other people pay me to photograph and especially to have to depend on it for a living.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Because amateurs regard the hobby of photography as a competitive sport, and they think they can just throw money at it and get results.
Click to expand...

Pretty sweeping statement isn't it? Some amateurs might have that mind set, but surely not all. In addition, I would suggest that some pros may also have a similar view.
 
RedRobin said:
....No! That isn't what I said and you well know it, buddy!

Better camera gear will POTENTIALLY yield better results is what I said. And I also said that better camera gear won't GUARANTEE better results. Duh! You can read can you?

If my camera gear is expensive it's primarily because it's what I choose to best suit what I enjoy photographing - It has optical quality, is durable outdoors, and reliable. If I ADDITIONALLY derive a placebo of self-confidence from using it then that's a bonus. Perhaps you have never done anything in your life which has taught you the value of what self-confidence can bring. Also it sounds as if you have no understanding of the deeper relationships between man and machine.

Thank goodness I am an amateur and am not tethered to having to photograph what other people pay me to photograph and especially to have to depend on it for a living.
Click to expand...

I think you should wind your neck in.
You've already proven you can't take constrictive criticism when asked for in another thread... Don't project
 
Pookeyhead said:
I'd love to see some stats on this, but I reckon most pro gear is actually bought by amateurs thees days.
Click to expand...

I think that has always been the case. It wouldn't be cost effective to manufacture it otherwise.

Diving Pete said:
The difference between a pro & an amateur..

A Pro can get good results from any equipment,

an Amateur can't.
Click to expand...

Nonsense!

shreds said:
And in that respect is someone with the ability to be academic a better physician than one who has good practical clinical skills and a good bedside manner?
Click to expand...

In my opinion, competence trumps qualification every time (in everything).


Steve.
 
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simonbarker said:
There's a winning attitude...
Click to expand...


What's wrong with it? Amateurs are happy because they have their pro gear... I'm happy because that pro gear is cheaper as a result. Everyone's happy. Got a problem with that?
 
landwomble said:
I think you should wind your neck in.
You've already proven you can't take constrictive criticism when asked for in another thread... Don't project
Click to expand...

....I think you are referring to a thread in the Birds section in which you misunderstood my post. Did you not read my calm response to you there?

If you think that I'm reacting to someone's words in this thread it's partly out of frustration in having to waste time repeating myself but it's mostly because of the tone which some people adopt - They probably think they are being manly :D . But, hey-ho :)
 
Weird thread, seriously.

The Pro / Amatuer thing is literally just a definition of somebody who does it for a living and somebody who doesn't, it has no impact on the quality of output (scarily so, sometimes), so why would make any difference to what kit they use.

Some Pros use M4/3 or Fuji, some amateurs use a Canon 1DX or Pentax 645Z.
 
This thread seems to unfortunately highlight that SOME (NOT ALL) Professional Photographers are basically insecure and somehow feel threatened by the work of those amateurs who are really very good at what they do.

The only difference between a professional and an amateur is that, by definition, a professional charges money for their efforts and an amateur doesn't. They BOTH are EQUALLY capable of producing excellent photographs/pictures/images.

EDIT:
Chris in Reply #68 came to the same conclusion and posted while I was writing the above.
 
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RedRobin said:
This thread seems to unfortunately highlight that SOME (NOT ALL) Professional Photographers are basically insecure and somehow feel threatened by the work of those amateurs who are really very good at what they do.

The only difference between a professional and an amateur is that, by definition, a professional charges money for their efforts and an amateur doesn't. They BOTH are EQUALLY capable of producing excellent photographs/pictures/images.

EDIT:
Chris in Reply #68 came to the same conclusion and posted while I was writing the above.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say that (? Some ?) professionals here, or anywhere feel threatened by "amateurs". Heck, a few recent replies here prove that!
 
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Pookeyhead said:
What's wrong with it? Amateurs are happy because they have their pro gear... I'm happy because that pro gear is cheaper as a result. Everyone's happy. Got a problem with that?
Click to expand...
Wheres the evidence for that David, surely YOU of all people wont be making assumptions.
 
Gary Coyle said:
Wheres the evidence for that David, surely YOU of all people wont be making assumptions.
Click to expand...

Simple economics. If more amateurs than pros buy pro gear, then the result is more units shifted... if that's true, then that will enable them to be cheaper. I don't believe I've stated this as a fact though Gary. I said that I suspect it's true that more amateurs than pros buy pro gear. I have seen no stats suggesting this is a fact. However, if it is, I'm overjoyed that amateurs buy pro gear... why wouldn't I be?
 
Pookeyhead said:
What's wrong with it? Amateurs are happy because they have their pro gear... I'm happy because that pro gear is cheaper as a result. Everyone's happy. Got a problem with that?
Click to expand...

In principle I don't disagree as it should be good for both parties but it sounded like you were enjoying their mistakes which is not a great attitude. Most amateurs buy stuff because they're trying to aspire to something better, even if it's misguided I don't think they should be mocked for it...
 
simonbarker said:
In principle I don't disagree as it should be good for both parties but it sounded like you were enjoying their mistakes which is not a great attitude. Most amateurs buy stuff because they're trying to aspire to something better, even if it's misguided I don't think they should be mocked for it...
Click to expand...


I'm not mocking... I'm actively encouraging them to buy it if it makes it cheaper :)


However... pointing out that it will do precisely sod all for their photography is not mocking them Simon.. it's helping them.

I'm sorry... I'm baffled as to why you think I have a bad attitude here.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Simple economics. If more amateurs than pros buy pro gear, then the result is more units shifted... if that's true, then that will enable them to be cheaper. I don't believe I've stated this as a fact though Gary. I said that I suspect it's true that more amateurs than pros buy pro gear. I have seen no stats suggesting this is a fact. However, if it is, I'm overjoyed that amateurs buy pro gear... why wouldn't I be?
Click to expand...
Dont be fooled into thinking that more units produced = cheaper prices, its simply not true, in todays economic climate demand usually means manufacturers charge what they want/can get away with, and dont forget this is the UK where consumers put up with manufacturers greed,
 
Pookeyhead said:
Simple economics. If more amateurs than pros buy pro gear, then the result is more units shifted... if that's true, then that will enable them to be cheaper. I don't believe I've stated this as a fact though Gary. I said that I suspect it's true that more amateurs than pros buy pro gear. I have seen no stats suggesting this is a fact. However, if it is, I'm overjoyed that amateurs buy pro gear... why wouldn't I be?
Click to expand...

....Do you really believe that when a commercial company such as Canon, Nikon, etc, sells more units that they then bring the price down?

No, they put their profits into further research and development of their products and also into their share dividends to attract even more income to develop products.

The reason unit prices are reduced is to become more attractive than their competitors in the market. Surely you already know this.
 
RedRobin said:
....Do you really believe that when a commercial company such as Canon, Nikon, etc, sells more units that they then bring the price down?
Click to expand...

Yes.




RedRobin said:
The reason unit prices are reduced is to become more attractive than their competitors in the market. Surely you already know this.
Click to expand...

I do... but you have to be able to do that and still turn an acceptable profit, and shifting larger volumes of anything, regardless of what it is, allows you to do that.
 
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