PSE vs Lightroom

[drsilver]

I was a newspaper photographer in the '80s and '90s. I pretty much walked away from photography for 30 years. I retired a little while ago and decided to pick it back up. It's been great. So much fun.

I bought Photoshop Elements (PSE). The 2020 version. I've tried to learn it before, but was too busy. Made a commitment to learn it this time. And I have, a little bit. Scale of 1-10: 4.

I was trained to make a good negative or a good chrome image. My idea of post processing comes from putting my hands between an enlarger and a 2-blade easel. PSE does does more than I need and it cost $60, total.

It came with this thing called Organizer for photo management. After I left journalism, I worked in computers. I don't need file management help. Got my own system. Thanks anyway.

But, holy moly, I live in Organizer now. Can't imagine working without it. There's a million editors out there, but I need something like Organizer.

I've heard a lot of talk about Lightroom and have certainly been seeing a lot of ads for it. Sounds like, for still photography, it's the software to have. 120 bucks a year in 12x10 installments. I could swing that.

What does that get me, though? I don't really have any ambitions of becoming an expert editor. I'm a camera guy. Has anyone moved from PSE to Photoshop Lightroom?

 

[Deleted member 34016]

Just the opposite for me- I moved from lightroom into full blown Photoshop 2019 and now Photoshop 2020 - I rarely if ever use PSE or Lightroom

Les

 

[tijuana taxi]

I was a newspaper photographer in the '80s and '90s. I pretty much walked away from photography for 30 years. I retired a little while ago and decided to pick it back up. It's been great. So much fun.

I bought Photoshop Elements (PSE). The 2020 version. I've tried to learn it before, but was too busy. Made a commitment to learn it this time. And I have, a little bit. Scale of 1-10: 4.

I was trained to make a good negative or a good chrome image. My idea of post processing comes from putting my hands between an enlarger and a 2-blade easel. PSE does does more than I need and it cost $60, total.

It came with this thing called Organizer for photo management. After I left journalism, I worked in computers. I don't need file management help. Got my own system. Thanks anyway.

But, holy moly, I live in Organizer now. Can't imagine working without it. There's a million editors out there, but I need something like Organizer.

I've heard a lot of talk about Lightroom and have certainly been seeing a lot of ads for it. Sounds like, for still photography, it's the software to have. 120 bucks a year in 12x10 installments. I could swing that.

What does that get me, though? I don't really have any ambitions of becoming an expert editor. I'm a camera guy. Has anyone moved from PSE to Photoshop Lightroom?

I have both in the older standalone versions, work well together.
For starting afresh I would get the Lightroom/Photoshop subscription and sell the PSE off
I believe its Lightroom "Classic" version that would be the best for your purposes

 

[Faldrax]

Lightroom is, like PSE, both an editor and an organiser.

However, the abilities to organise and group photographs go considerably beyond PSE (this is based in PSE / Lightroom comparison from some years back, so PSE Organiser may have gained some LR functionality since).

In LR you start by importing the photos into the software - at this stage you can custom rename them, apply standard profiles, add copyright exif details, and automatically organise them on disk (including creating folders as required). You can also add keywords to aid later sorting.

Once in LR, you can then add them to collections (a given photo can be in multiple collections if required) , and add further keywords, add ratings, etc.
You can make virtual copies (LR is primarily for RAW image editing, and holds the edits separately from the RAW) so proces the same image in as many different ways as you want.
You can filter groups of images by the lens used, or the focal length, the camera (if you have shots from more than one camera).

For me, it's worth the monthly cost - but you can get it even cheaper, as Amazon sell 1 Year licenses, which when applied to your Adobe account give you 12 months credit (so suspend your monthly direct debit for 12 months) - normally these cost the same as 12 months of subscription, but from time to time (Prime Day and Black Friday week typically, but not exclusively), these are sold at about 60% - so in the UK a couple of weeks ago you could get 12 months for £79, rather than £120.

 

[ancient_mariner]

Lightroom and photoshop are different applications with different objectives.

Lightroom is for image development and management. It preserves your raw files un-changed so that you can edit & re-edit as much as needed without harming your precious resource, but is all about refining and developing the image like you would in a darkroom when you and I put our hands between the enlarger and paper. As noted, it can also be used to organise your images and allow you to find the right image using keywording, and do all kinds of other useful stuff.

Photoshop is for making pixel-level deep changes to your image: want to change a sky, make a fat person look thin, remove wrinkles, change one colour to another, blend multiple layers together etc etc? PS is the tool. Yes, it can be used to develop images, but that's not what it's designd for.

 

[Major Eazy]

I was a newspaper photographer in the '80s and '90s. I pretty much walked away from photography for 30 years. I retired a little while ago and decided to pick it back up. It's been great. So much fun.


Has anyone moved from PSE to Photoshop Lightroom?

PSE and LR are two totally different programs, nowhere alike.

PSE (is like a watered down version of PS) and it is mainly a raster editing program, its job is mainly major photo editing, including photo manipulation, and also for creating painting-like artwork (well, that's how I see PS.)

Lightroom is really mainly a database, catalogue, organizer. Granted, it does have built-in editing tools, but it is mainly for the purpose of viewing all your photos in one place.

You mention you did photography in the 80s and 90s. So I'll use those old days as an analogy to help you understand.

Photoshop (PS) and Photoshop Elements (PSE) are both just like the enlarger in the darkroom. You use timing, f-stops, dodging and burning, to control the light levels on the photograph, to control the exposures. PS and PSE are the darkroom and the darkroom equipment.

Lightroom (LR) is like a ring-blinder full of pages after pages of contact sheets, to view and find the photo you want, and also have an index of where to find the negatives. LR will show you all your photos that are all over the hard drive, (actually LR will show you the ones you imported into your LR catalogue), and if you want "that" photo, LR will be told where to find that file, and open it. LR is the ring-blinder or the filing cabinet in your office outside of the darkroom.

Since Lightroom have editing tools built-in, you could think of it as if you have your ring-blinder with pages of contact sheets and negatives, and you are in the darkroom with the enlarger at the same time.

You can use PS and PSE on their own, without LR. But you'll have to open your own Windows folders to find the photos you want to edit. ("I can't find that photo! Oh, maybe in another folder. Let's click on that folder, nope, not there, I'll click and open another folder. AH! Finally found you!")

You can use LR and PS/PSE working together. Easier to find the photo in LR and have it imported into PS/PSE for editing. ("Computer! Show me all of my photos. Stop. Select that photo and open in Photoshop for editing.")

 

[ancient_mariner]

Photoshop (PS) and Photoshop Elements (PSE) are both just like the enlarger in the darkroom. You use timing, f-stops, dodging and burning, to control the light levels on the photograph, to control the exposures. PS and PSE are the darkroom and the darkroom equipment.

Lightroom (LR) is like a ring-blinder full of pages after pages of contact sheets, to view and find the photo you want, and also have an index of where to find the negatives. LR will show you all your photos that are all over the hard drive, (actually LR will show you the ones you imported into your LR catalogue), and if you want "that" photo, LR will be told where to find that file, and open it. LR is the ring-blinder or the filing cabinet in your office outside of the darkroom.

It's an interesting comparison. I'd have described Lightroom as being like the enlarger with all the development tools you'd normally have there plus a few useful extras. Photoshop It like having unlimited cutting boards, retouching inks and pens, custom masking tools and a super-quality photocopier that allowed to to seamlessly paste your creation back into a single image when you're done.

 

[woof woof]

I used Raw Shooter Essentials and sometimes Rawtherapee which were/are free programs before going to CS2 and now CS5. I was interested in Lightroom as everyone seems to use it so I gave it a try but I was put off as to me it looks like it's mainly an image cataloging and viewing thing with some processing tools hidden away in a corner. I'm sure others see it differently but that's how it looked to me. I much prefer the (to me) simplicity of CS5 and if I want to find a picture I can do that myself

 

[Major Eazy]

It's an interesting comparison. I'd have described Lightroom as being like the enlarger with all the development tools you'd normally have there plus a few useful extras. Photoshop It like having unlimited cutting boards, retouching inks and pens, custom masking tools and a super-quality photocopier that allowed to to seamlessly paste your creation back into a single image when you're done.

I would also describe Lightroom's editing tools would be more like our hand-written instructions on timing and f-stop setting attached to our contact sheets, for when you use an enlarger.

When describing Photoshop for the photographers, I would describe it as like the enlarger in the darkroom, for printing photos, using our darkroom skill and experience of timing, f-stop setting, dodge, burn, using or not using the frame for holding down the paper so you opt for boarder or boarderless photos, and all that.

But if describing Photoshop to artists and graphic designers, I would agree with your analogy of cutting boards, retouching inks and pens, and all that.

 

[ancient_mariner]

I would also describe Lightroom's editing tools would be more like our hand-written instructions on timing and f-stop setting attached to our contact sheets, for when you use an enlarger.

When describing Photoshop for the photographers, I would describe it as like the enlarger in the darkroom, for printing photos, using our darkroom skill and experience of timing, f-stop setting, dodge, burn, using or not using the frame for holding down the paper so you opt for boarder or boarderless photos, and all that.

But if describing Photoshop to artists and graphic designers, I would agree with your analogy of cutting boards, retouching inks and pens, and all that.

For me, LR does all the dodge & burn etc stuff very well - I keep the fundamental image intact. I came from a film background and you probably did too, and there's quite a bit one can do if you're a little brave with those very simple tools. This may be a purely personal view, but I don't see the point of photoshop for that kind of work even though it's certainly capable of it. OTOH if you need to apply frequency separation to a layer then it's perfect.

 

[drsilver]

PSE and LR are two totally different programs, nowhere alike.

PSE (is like a watered down version of PS) and it is mainly a raster editing program, its job is mainly major photo editing, including photo manipulation, and also for creating painting-like artwork (well, that's how I see PS.)

Lightroom is really mainly a database, catalogue, organizer. Granted, it does have built-in editing tools, but it is mainly for the purpose of viewing all your photos in one place.

You mention you did photography in the 80s and 90s. So I'll use those old days as an analogy to help you understand.

Photoshop (PS) and Photoshop Elements (PSE) are both just like the enlarger in the darkroom. You use timing, f-stops, dodging and burning, to control the light levels on the photograph, to control the exposures. PS and PSE are the darkroom and the darkroom equipment.

Lightroom (LR) is like a ring-blinder full of pages after pages of contact sheets, to view and find the photo you want, and also have an index of where to find the negatives. LR will show you all your photos that are all over the hard drive, (actually LR will show you the ones you imported into your LR catalogue), and if you want "that" photo, LR will be told where to find that file, and open it. LR is the ring-blinder or the filing cabinet in your office outside of the darkroom.

Since Lightroom have editing tools built-in, you could think of it as if you have your ring-blinder with pages of contact sheets and negatives, and you are in the darkroom with the enlarger at the same time.

You can use PS and PSE on their own, without LR. But you'll have to open your own Windows folders to find the photos you want to edit. ("I can't find that photo! Oh, maybe in another folder. Let's click on that folder, nope, not there, I'll click and open another folder. AH! Finally found you!")

You can use LR and PS/PSE working together. Easier to find the photo in LR and have it imported into PS/PSE for editing. ("Computer! Show me all of my photos. Stop. Select that photo and open in Photoshop for editing.")

I've got the latest version of PSE, the 2020 version. I'm not familiar with earlier versions, but the 'Organizer' portion of PSE 2020 sounds very much like what you're describing in LR. You can certainly scroll through folders, but it also has catalogs, albums, keywords, tags, ratings and filters. It groups together edited versions of images, regardless of where they're stored. I'm still just scratching the surface of its possibilities, but as I mentioned in the original post, I live in Organizer.

Which is what piqued my interest in the LR/PS bundle. It sounds like PSE 2020 is a stripped-down version of that bundle. What I'm asking is, is the LR/PS bundle significantly better than what I already have? Somebody mentioned bulk file renaming. I'd love to have that. While LR/PS is certainly within my budget, it is significantly more expensive than PSE. I'm pretty sure I won't commit to a monthly charge in perpetuity to get bulk file renaming alone. What else is better in LR/PS than I have in PSE 2020?

Organizer Screen Shot, PSE 2020

 

[drsilver]

Editor Screen Shot, PSE 2020

 

[ancient_mariner]

If you don't have a very recent (<12 months) model camera then you might do what I've just done & buy a 'used' stand-alone copy of Lightroom 6.

 

[Major Eazy]

I've got the latest version of PSE, the 2020 version. I'm not familiar with earlier versions, but the 'Organizer' portion of PSE 2020 sounds very much like what you're describing in LR. You can certainly scroll through folders, but it also has catalogs, albums, keywords, tags, ratings and filters. It groups together edited versions of images, regardless of where they're stored. I'm still just scratching the surface of its possibilities, but as I mentioned in the original post, I live in Organizer.

Which is what piqued my interest in the LR/PS bundle. It sounds like PSE 2020 is a stripped-down version of that bundle. What I'm asking is, is the LR/PS bundle significantly better than what I already have? Somebody mentioned bulk file renaming. I'd love to have that. While LR/PS is certainly within my budget, it is significantly more expensive than PSE. I'm pretty sure I won't commit to a monthly charge in perpetuity to get bulk file renaming alone. What else is better in LR/PS than I have in PSE 2020?

Organizer Screen Shot, PSE 2020
View attachment 276502

Oh wow, I wasn't aware the PSE got something like that. I only use PS.

Surely there must be some websites, maybe YouTube videos, where someone else compare PSE's Organizer against Lightroom, for you to see?

 

[andrewc]

I find Lightroom Classic invaluable, and if some some reason it ceased to exist, I would switch to one of its rivals. It has a very capable cataloging functions, allowing easy location of past and present shoots, but you can do non-destructive edits to your photos and scans, and develop standard recipes or presets. Applying the same recipe to a whole shoot or just single photos is a boon. It has clone and heal functions as well as dodge and burn ability and anything it can't do you could edit in PSE or PS.

The current version is subscription, but if you have an older camera with no plans to upgrade you could get Lightroom 6 or 5 stand-alone for now and years to come.

There used to be a months free trial of Lightroom, I don't know if they still offer it, but if they do, give it a go.

 

[drsilver]

Oh wow, I wasn't aware the PSE got something like that. I only use PS.

Surely there must be some websites, maybe YouTube videos, where someone else compare PSE's Organizer against Lightroom, for you to see?

I went out on the interwebs and looked for some comparisons. There really isn't much out there. I'd read most of it before, but that was during an avalanche of information when I was looking at going from nothing to something. Rereading it in the context of going from something to something else gave me a frame of reference.

Here are some things I learned.

LR, in all ways, is equal to or greater than PSE. No question.

By far the biggest advantage of LR over PSE is LR's ability to do bulk processing. The ability to apply baseline edits to all images in a given set. There is a large segment of the pro community who view this as a piece of core functionality. And LR has a reputation - deserved or not - as the best tool for working with large image sets.

Still, LR has costs. Cash costs. Time-to-learn costs. Commitment-to-Adobe costs.

Couple more things I learned.

Apparently, PSE was upgraded radically in 2018. At that point they moved to labeling the product by year rather than version number. A lot of reviewers were surprised to see what the new PSE could do.

Almost all the literature on PSE, all the marketing, all the reviews, focus on its whiz-bang features. The calendar creator, the background replacer, the meme maker, the ability to airbrush that ugly neighbor kid from that beautiful picture of your daughter.

The combination of the newness of the current product and the marketing to an unsophisticated audience made it somewhat invisible to a demographic that might, for example, subscribe to a forum like this. A demographic looking for a serious photography tool.

All that said, I think I'm going to stick with PSE for the time being. From my experience, PSE 2020 does a lot of things well. A lot of things I use on a daily basis albeit hidden under things I'll never use.

A while back a budding sports photographer asked if he really needed a 400 2.8. I told him, of course. Everybody needs a 400 2.8. But until then, use what you have. Learn to use it well. And when its limitations become obstacles, plan your next move.

I think I'm going to follow my own advice.

 

[ancient_mariner]

I think I'm going to follow my own advice.

Sensible.

There are alternatives outside the adobe world to lightroom, and if I were starting now then I'd have bought On1 Photoraw & learn it from the beginning, or perhaps DXO Photolab (though I've never been completely happy with the way DXO image processing works). I have tried both those packages and use On1 when I want to make deeper edits than Lightroom allows. I also have 5 years experience of LR and it's difficult to move away from that, although I'm going to have to do so at some time, because I won't accept a subscription model and eventually it will become too difficult getting new cameras to work with the software.